But we aren't dealing with the equivalent of a Bretonnian Dukedom, that's my point. Myrielh doesn't even have the backing of Morathi (the actual ruler of Ghrond!). This is a delegation of three people in roughly equivalent status and we know that one of them doesn't actually represent the City State she is from, they are just implying that they have more power and influence than they actually possess because the isolated Eonir and the dumb human won't know better.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
But we aren't dealing with the equivalent of a Bretonnian Dukedom, that's my point. Myrielh doesn't even have the backing of Morathi (the actual ruler of Ghrond!). This is a delegation of three people in roughly equivalent status and we know that one of them doesn't actually represent the City State she is from, they are just implying that they have more power and influence than they actually possess because the isolated Eonir and the dumb human won't know better.
Blackout
Fed By Comments
- Location
- Who knows?
Malekith has tried to unbind the Vortex before in a childish temper tantrum because he lost to Caledor the Conqueror and decided that if he couldn't be Phoenix King, nobody would.
Morathi has attempted to unbind the Vortex in the past in order to use the newly-freed wave of magical energy in a ritual to ascend herself to become a Goddess, following the logic that it won't matter what happens to the world after that, she'll be immortal and all-powerful.
As per 7th-5th edition High Elf armybooks Teclis had every intention of returning to the Empire right after attending his father's funeral and catching up with Tyrion, but he got made High Loremaster of Saphery and his new duties have kept him occupied since.
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- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I recall that part of the quest, and the clear reasoning that a few very clever members of this thread laid down in a number of effortposts and for you to go "It was Marienburg" or "it was probably Marienburg" flies in the face of my takeaway from that, and I feel the takeaways of the vast majority of threadgoers, and as a result your use of the word 'we' registers as dishonest.
I wanna string one of them along long enough to get a demonstration of them using Ulgu.
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Thinking on it a bit, and please poke any obvious holes ya'll see in this idea: to those in the thread that hold the very understandable position of "fuck the druchi and the ships they came in on", what if we do any Druchii negotiations at a remove, and let the Queen of Laurelron use us as a prop in her own negotiations?
i.e. she goes "Oh, hello northern cousin, wouldn't it be lovely if I were to use my own levers to bring these two lovely Lord Magisters in my city to the table?" and then uses that promise (we help by stringing the Druchii diplomats along) to get her polity stuff from both Ulthuan and Naggartoh, and then she has a foundation to escalate from to put pressure on the Asur to try and get those command codes.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Feel like noting that 6th edition Empire army book has a personal letter from him where he says he's returning to Ulthuan with the full intention of staying.
- Location
- Eugene OR US
IC remember not OOC. By 'we' I very clearly mean Mathilde not the threadgoes.
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Chlof
Her Ladyship
- Pronouns
- She/Her
No, i had two initial objections; Mathilde does not have the authority to negotiate with Ulthuan (and the idea that the Chamberlain would trust a ranaldian holy artefact with scamming the elves likely wouldn't fly either) and the that the elves would even entertain those negotiations in the first place. Again, "Get out and bring back the actual diplomats" is the optimistic outlook there, especially when the current Ulthuani diplomat is nagarythian. But I'm going to stop responding here because this argument is beginning to get deeply frustrating to me and I don't want to continue it.
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- Actually pretty lost
To be fair, we don't actually know this; whilst they aren't unbeatable schemers they are pretty good at intrigue, and Myrielh implying that Morathi didn't know she was there literally saved her life. She might have just been tricking Harathi.
Alright. I still disagree, but I'll drop the argument. (Although unrelated to the argument, the position of diplomat regularly changes hands for internal Asur political squabbling, so it's probably not still Nagarythian.)
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I legitimately do not know, although if the Eonir are willing to work with Grond, enemies of the Isha, in good faith, I can't shake the feeling that in this AU their moral fibre is… suspect.
Edit: Sorry, the Everqueen is a separate entity.
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And that is utterly irrelevant, answering patronism with patriotism, antagonism with antagonism, does nothing but muddle whatever reasonable points you have and instead heat the blood of both parties to being less reasonable to one another and worsen discussion with also the side effect of leading to other people being less willing to listen to them. Case in point
Due to you being antagonistic through sarcasm either purposely or poor framing of words, it results in the outcome as seen with Codex. As for entrenchment, while you are not responsible for their positions currently, bashing them over the head with Snorri as you say can and will lead to consequences of other posters becoming annoyed and discounting your points when they do make sense along with contributing to entrench their positions even further in areas you do not desire.
As for the Dawi beard being shaved, while the equalincy of the beard shaving with city razing does raise a brow, it must be reminded upon that during the meeting with Caledor the second, a city razing is not discussed as one of the reasons for essentially mutalilating a dawi diplomat in a manner all but guaranteed to start a War.
Overall if the goal of yours is to remind people that the Dawi are not perfect, it is better to support those points through either citation, word and other manners in a framing which is acceptable.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I still remember that part of the quest, and your post still registers as misrepresenting the situation because "was Marienburg" or "probably [anything]" were not Mathilde's takeaway, which was informed by the thread's reasoning.
Well, I say 'thread's'. A few clever folk who did a fair bit of careful work. You know who you are
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- Location
- Finland
We pretty much came to a "who the fuck knows" conclusion on who was guilty.
Because, who the fuck knows.
Could be skaven.
Could be Marienburg.
Could be individual in/from Marienburg (which is very different from Marienburg).
Could be some idiot in the empire trying to get shit started with Marienburg.
It probably was not the Norscans.
Because, who the fuck knows.
Could be skaven.
Could be Marienburg.
Could be individual in/from Marienburg (which is very different from Marienburg).
Could be some idiot in the empire trying to get shit started with Marienburg.
It probably was not the Norscans.
- Location
- Eugene OR US
And our most recent threadmark of Mathilde has her thinking it was the kind of thing Marienburg would do as a reason to jump on the fuck Marienburg train.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
My guesses are that it's someone in the Empire trying to frame Mariensburg, or someone trying to make it look like the Empire is trying to frame Mariensburg.
If it's the second one, then the list of suspects includes everyone who wants the Empire and Mariensburg to go to war, which includes an awful lot of people - notably, including the Druchii.
If it's the second one, then the list of suspects includes everyone who wants the Empire and Mariensburg to go to war, which includes an awful lot of people - notably, including the Druchii.
- Location
- A Pit Of My Own Making
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I wish to ask if the Asur that work with Marienburg are the same group of Asur that want the Empire to succeed
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
....I think we are talking past each other. To attempt to be more clear, what did we discover that made you think all agents of Marienburg have the same orders/motives/goals rather than the ones who mined the area we were in?
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- Finland
Would is by no means the same as did.
And quite frankly, that's a stretch at best.
Probably not.
However, there are also Imperials who have an axe to grind against the Eonir, against Kislev, even against the Moot and the Dwarves, for varyingly legitimate reasons because Warhammer is utterly wild and must explain why everyone can and will fight everyone.
But these groups are not a good excuse to screw with the Empire as a whole.
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Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
It seems Druchi doesn't want to offend Eonir so perhaps if we can get Eonir as middleman we can do some trade withour takin undue risk. Like opening our internal mecanisms to Druchi or losing reputation etc. Of course getting Eonir trade for the empire is the first step to that which brings me an idea.
@Boney
Hey I got a question. I remember at some point we heard that Eonir trade wasn't happening -despite interest on the both sides- because Eonir didn't want to put a road on that one swamp I can't pronounce the name of. If we were to solve that road issue would Eonir be interested in paying that back?
Like I am thinking that Rite of Way enchanted bridge across the swamp that Eonir can control from their end and in return -I don't know something like- they can send some magic researchers/Sarvoi to lecture and exchange ideas in the Collages for a couple years?
It would start the trade and and benefit everybody I am thinking.
@Boney
Hey I got a question. I remember at some point we heard that Eonir trade wasn't happening -despite interest on the both sides- because Eonir didn't want to put a road on that one swamp I can't pronounce the name of. If we were to solve that road issue would Eonir be interested in paying that back?
Like I am thinking that Rite of Way enchanted bridge across the swamp that Eonir can control from their end and in return -I don't know something like- they can send some magic researchers/Sarvoi to lecture and exchange ideas in the Collages for a couple years?
It would start the trade and and benefit everybody I am thinking.
- Location
- Finland
Possibly, depending on how you define success.
And depending on how you define success, there are very few people outside the Empire that want it to succeed, and possibly a fairly limited number of them in it.
Regardless of whether we want to make a deal or not we should probably talk with the Chamberlain first, not (only) because he has more authority on these matters than anyone else not named Luitpold, but because he's probably a lot more experienced with this kind of negotiations (and almost certainly has a more accurate view of the wider consequences of anything we could try) than Matty.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I did note the incongruence of that, yes.
I took it to be Mathilde being somewhat manipulated by someone who has spent many decades practising their whataboutisms and other bullshiting techniques. But I am grateful that you have pointed me to your source, and I apologise for strongly implying that you are being intentionally dishonest as to what Mathilde's position on who it was that blew up those ships.
We have gotten into the weeds here with this from your actual point of "Marienburges forces are basically morally evil bandits." but I was only interested in preventing what I saw as misinformation being spread over engaging with your general point of... I'm not sure tbh? "Siccing the Drucci on Marienberg is a good thing to do"?
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- Actually pretty lost
The Asur want the Empire to succeed in that the Old World's problems are less likely to become the Asur's problems if they do. Marienburg lets them exert influence over the Old World and suppresses any naval ambitions the Empire might have, that could theoretically trouble the Asur on the high seas. So, probably?
They aren't goatee-stroking villains, but they are absolutely being motivated by self-interest in real, practical matters, and have screwed over the Empire somewhat in doing so. The Empire currently being pissed off at them doesn't really affect them, because... well, Marienburg's existence prevents the Empire from going over the sea and becoming more relevant to them. It's all tied up quite nicely from their perspective.
Oh please. I'd give more credence to your attempts at this if you were calling up others on their short comings. Considering you joined this conversation with a very patronizing response yourself. I'm hardly about to take lessons on this from you. Despite how helpful you've been. Your continued reference to my "bashing people over the head" remark. Which was simply my giving a reasonably light hearted response, in good faith, which you are now trying to use as something to. Heh. Beat me over the head with. Rather makes me doubt you on this manner even more, to be frank.
It is not on me alone to act in a reasonable manner. I am not a saint. Nor am i trying to be one, nor are you my parent to try and lecture me alone on discourse while leaving others involved entirely absent. Others, i might note, you apparently agreed with given your singular involvement in that argument and your recent comment.
If i have to keep raising more recent expansions of the canon that expand upon old. That's not my being antagonistic or rude. That's them simply not liking it. Would it be expanded upon further in future installments? Perhaps. The setting however got nuked not long after and so it's up in the air if we will ever know. See what "The Old World" brings. Though i've little faith in GW treating the fantasy setting with anything approaching a good touch. For the moment though it means that so far as the actual Warhammer Fantasy setting goes. Snori Halfhand went on a grand city razing massacre before his fathers ambassadors got to the elven court.
edit: Also this is a remarkably out-of-scope tangent. You want to keep berating me on my decorum feel free to pm me. I can't promise i'll reply of course, cluttering up the thread is remarkably rude, but i'll not reply here again.
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Voikirium
SV's Estalia Guy
- Location
- Ruritania Illinois
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean I get your point and I don't disagree.
But also, semi-relevant confession time: How should I put this? I don't mind the existence of the Cloak of Beards (on a fictional, writing level) but I have never been particularly pleased by the note that the High Elves are still adding to it since the Dwarfs are being positively sanguine about it unless the beards they're taking are from Dawi Zharr or renegades or something.
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