Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
No. All the explanations for it read like someone made the purely game mechanics decision early on that there would only be a few magical languages and then all the lore people had to work around that, even after the setting expanded to cover things like Ice Witches and Necromancers and Damsels. I see no reason to inflict upon myself the same needless limitation. I can see an argument for why you might justify lumping most of the magical languages of the Old World into a broad 'descended from Classical' family, but that breaks down extremely hard if you start talking about Kislevarin traditions.

I also really don't like the name 'Magick'.
Perfectly understandable. I was aware of your dislike for the name Magick, but I used it for ease of communication, because that's what the books use.

I think the idea behind the whole thing is less that everything descends from Classical, and more that everything descends from the language of the Old Ones. Now, real life languages don't work like the Warhammer ones at all, so I suspect that the only way anyone can make sense of it is that the Old One language has some sort of Aethyric resonance that results in almost every language leading back to it. If you want to use magic, it's probably coming back to the Old Ones.

That being said, there is a world of difference between having languages with the same origin and having those languages be mutually understandable, and I think the WHF setting goes too far in this regard. This being your quest, I understand disregarding those parts due to breaking SoD.
I love Max. Max is my boy. One of my proudest moments was getting an Insightful react from Boney on my analysis of his character. As a detail-oriented perfectionist who often got on people's nerves before I learned how to tone it down, I relate to him and his tendency to get social egg on his face way too much.
No wonder I associate Max with you. He just gives off the same vibes.
 
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I think the idea behind the whole thing is less that everything descends from Classical, and more that everything descends from the language of the Old Ones. Now, real life languages don't work like the Warhammer ones at all, so I suspect that the only way anyone can make sense of it is that the Old One language has some sort of Aethyric resonance that results in almost every language leading back to it. If you want to use magic, it's probably coming back to the Old Ones.

That falls apart when Elf Arcane and Magick are treated as different. Magick really seems like it is being used to mean 'human arcane', and either they didn't consider that Classical is much closer to Eltharin than it is to Scythian or High Nehekharan, or they meant it to be 'Old World Arcane' and didn't plan ahead for the splatbooks that added more exotic magical traditions without adding more magical languages. I might be able to make something work with it if the Colleges used Elf Arcane, but they don't. Despite being built by Teclis and based on Anoqeyan, apparently Lingua Praestantia is closer to the magical languages used by Ice Witches and Vampires than that used by Elves.
 
I don't understand -- what is it that you propose spending CF on? I am not sure how translating texts helps keep an eye on things. Can you explain?

Oh! I meant as counter-espionage, mostly. The idea being that we'd pay a grey Magister to shadow project participants when they left Laurelorn, see if anyone suspicious approaches them, follow if they get kidnapped or something. An extra layer of security, and a drain for college favor.
 
That falls apart when Elf Arcane and Magick are treated as different. Magick really seems like it is being used to mean 'human arcane', and either they didn't consider that Classical is much closer to Eltharin than it is to Scythian or High Nehekharan, or they meant it to be 'Old World Arcane' and didn't plan ahead for the splatbooks that added more exotic magical traditions without adding more magical languages. I might be able to make something work with it if the Colleges used Elf Arcane, but they don't. Despite being built by Teclis and based on Anoqeyan, apparently Lingua Praestantia is closer to the magical languages used by Ice Witches and Vampires than that used by Elves.
Part of that, I think, is that 2E glorifies Elven magic a lot. To a ridiculous degree in fact. It's the edition that produced the "Lord Magisters of the Colleges are equivalent to Elven Apprentice Mages" quote. In fact, Realm of Sorcery outright says that Magic Elves can't be playable because they would break the game. There are no mechanics for being an Elven Mage. I wouldn't be surprised if whoever wrote the books was under the impression that they needed to separate the Elves from humans by making it apparent that what Teclis taught the humans is "watered down" compared to the original language.

(As a note, I'm not actually arguing against anything you're saying. Just giving my take on 2E's weird treatment of Elves and magic).
 
In fact, Realm of Sorcery outright says that Magic Elves can't be playable because they would break the game. There are no mechanics for being an Elven Mage.
Yes there are. You can't play as someone who knows High Magic. Otherwise, you just use the same mechanics to play an Elven Wizard as you do a Human one.
 
I'm going to be occupied with Anzac Day stuff for about the next 24 hours, so nobody should hold their breath too hard for the next update.

(normally I can do the planning for an update during the voting stage because it's usually pretty clear what at least part of the results would be, but this update the part that has to come first is the part that was neck-and-neck and it's the part that involves creating entirely new characters so it's taking longer than usual)
 
Part of that, I think, is that 2E glorifies Elven magic a lot. To a ridiculous degree in fact. It's the edition that produced the "Lord Magisters of the Colleges are equivalent to Elven Apprentice Mages" quote. In fact, Realm of Sorcery outright says that Magic Elves can't be playable because they would break the game. There are no mechanics for being an Elven Mage. I wouldn't be surprised if whoever wrote the books was under the impression that they needed to separate the Elves from humans by making it apparent that what Teclis taught the humans is "watered down" compared to the original language.

(As a note, I'm not actually arguing against anything you're saying. Just giving my take on 2E's weird treatment of Elves and magic).
Speaking as an elf simp, I always did dislike that. Because that's plainly nonsense after even a five second look at the army books (which are my preferred source for any number of reasons) where High Magic is strong, sure, but more because it's versatile than because it's a big old hammer that can just beat down anybody it doesn't like. And there are also level 4 Human Wizards, same as elves and Slann alike, who are nothing to sneeze at in terms of battle magic, being capable of standing toe-to-toe with Archmages and Slaan alike.

Like, for the same amount of points (ie rarity, wealth investment, however you want to put it in universe though I am assuming it has some relation to constructed reality) the Empire can have a level four Wizard Lord of Beasts on a griffon, with two-heads and bloodroar, and 75 point's worth of magic equipment. The High Elves can put out an Archmage on a Sun Dragon with 45 points of magic items, and while I suspect that's not a wonderful match-up for the Imperial they can definitely win, including but not limited to by spamming spells and keeping far far away from the Archmage. Which isn't even getting into the hooey they like to pull with the Lizardmen.

I guess what I'm trying to say is you're right, and I really wish they'd tone it down. And also that rant has been building up inside me ever since I stumbled into Warhammer.
 
AKA one Wind. The mechanics explicitly refer to the Colleges for the standard casters, so you also have to choose to be a Hedge Witch.
You can absolutely learn more than one Wind. Once you hit Master Wizard, there aren't rules preventing you going back to Journeyman Wizard and picking up a second Lore.
 
You can absolutely learn more than one Wind. Once you hit Master Wizard, there aren't rules preventing you going back to Journeyman Wizard and picking up a second Lore.
Realm of Sorcery 2E Page 137 says this:

"You may still only ever know one Arcane Lore, which means you'll only ever have one Spell List. Lore skills remain unchanged."

The Core rulebook does not rule out mutliple lores, but Realms of Sorcery, the book about magic, does.
 
I'd normally be too shy to ask a bunch of minor questions (mostly concerning magic) from recently binging something, but given that this thread is pretty active, I'm sure you all have had worse tangents or requests for clarification.

So if you'll excuse me...
  • Dread Aspect as described seems strictly better than Shadow of Death. Is it? Or does SoD have certain uses or advantages beyond being presumably easier to cast or enchant into something?
  • When using the Dragonflask on the Dryad during the Battle of Shirokij, one of the penalties for the roll said 'Blinded by Aqshy' - do we know if this a natural drawback from using the item, or does it have to do with unfamiliarity of usage?
  • Has the opportunity yet to come up where Mathilde uses her Boon of Hysh magic item, at least onscreen?
  • This is presumably a future consideration, but how long does Steed of Shadows (the Battle Magic spell, not our Relatively Simple horsey friend) last? I assume it's not viable for long-term travel?
 
I'd normally be too shy to ask a bunch of minor questions (mostly concerning magic) from recently binging something, but given that this thread is pretty active, I'm sure you all have had worse tangents or requests for clarification.
This is intensely insightful.

Dread Aspect as described seems strictly better than Shadow of Death. Is it? Or does SoD have certain uses or advantages beyond being presumably easier to cast or enchant into something?
It's strictly better. Harder to cast but that doesn't matter anymore with Mathilde at her current level. Easier to enchant I suppose.

When using the Dragonflask on the Dryad during the Battle of Shirokij, one of the penalties for the roll said 'Blinded by Aqshy' - do we know if this a natural drawback from using the item, or does it have to do with unfamiliarity of usage?
Probably a natural drawback. I imagine it's like how you can't learn to see through a blindfold just by wearing a blindfold enough times.

Has the opportunity yet to come up where Mathilde uses her Boon of Hysh magic item, at least onscreen?
It hasn't come up yet.

This is presumably a future consideration, but how long does Steed of Shadows (the Battle Magic spell, not our Relatively Simple horsey friend) last? I assume it's not viable for long-term travel?
It lasts for a single round on the tabletop, so a few tens of seconds at most. It's definitely not viable for long term travel.
 
What sort of Perpetuals do you think the Grey Order has that you're thinking you can grab one off the rack and chuck it into a cage match with the Gatekeeper of the Order of Light, the Hag Witch of Erengrad, the Master Runelord of Karak Azul, and a Grey Lord of Laurelorn?

I have faith in unpaid interns everywhere! There is nothing can't do if they are pressured hard enough and/or fed a steady coffee only diet! Their eternal pain-filled groans are the beautiful sounds of progress!
 
When using the Dragonflask on the Dryad during the Battle of Shirokij, one of the penalties for the roll said 'Blinded by 211Aqshy' - do we know if this a natural drawback from using the item, or does it have to do with unfamiliarity of usage?
Almost definitely not something we can get over.
Think of looking at the sun.
The spot in your vision you get is not something you can practice away
 
Waystone Counter-Intelligence, aka "Project Personnel and Rumors Management," is a great idea but it's not going to be one Perpetual's worth of effort.

It'll clearly take five.

All spies will then fear the legendary Mathilde's Intelligence Five -- to insiders, of course, just called the MI5.
 
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Hiring Another
Hiring Another

The Empire has the greatest human wizards of, at least, the Old World. It's something you believe, and not without cause. Volans, Dragomas, Gotthilf, they were educated in the mystic arts in a way you've never seen surpassed. Can't imagine anyone surpassing in point of fact. Volans was so skilled that he could see every strand of magic and wise enough to realize that to the meddle with them would be his end, and laid the foundations of the Colleges. Dragomas, able to journey to distant Cathay and make common cause with the Dragons, and earn a treaty and return with the ability to turn into a celestial dragon. Gotthilf was subtler than those, with few realizing his importance, but he had simplified, redefined and perfected the art of magic, making complicated theory into...well, complicated theory, but less complicated. The difference between paradox and personal enigma.

But the Empire is not the only place in the world that makes (legitimate) wizards, not even counting the elves. There are the Damsels, of course, who can wield three Winds at a time where you can only wield one; but then they could only wield those three, leaving Ulgu, Aqshy, Chamon, Hysh and Shyish behind. There are the Ice Witches, who function powerfully in Kislev; but only to hurt, really. But they both have a pedigree worthy of respect, their own long histories; they are known, respected, and legal in the Empire, with their own knowledge that merits both preservation and protection.

But it might not be enough. And so you turn south, to a land you have not put much thought into over the past decades.

Estalia, a thousand years disunited, was now reunited under a king. And twenty eight years ago that king had offered his clemency and mercy to hedgewizards in his realm as long as they were willing to register themselves, and begin training under his own Loremaster, Alyazra. After three years they had grown powerful enough to take an entire city under his command by themselves, blasting apart the defenders on the city walls of Diamenterra and uniting the peninsula under his rule, and so formed Los Gremios de Cazadores Dellos Vientos; or, the Windseekers Guild. A similar enough story to any member of the Colleges; but by that same token, there was an argument to be made that they were redundant.

Except for the Bronze Windseekers. Wielders of Ghur, aside from the elvish lore Alyazra had taught them it was claimed that they were descended of the Old Families who had inhabited Estalia since before Sigmar and Myrmida, sacrificing humans to the ancient Menhirs to keep them functional. Rich with Ghur and supposedly Altars to Savage Khaine erected by Nagarythians before the Sundering, etc. Etc. And most importantly, they turned Dhar into Ghur; or at least, probably, they would, though the Winds of magic are too weak this far south for really notable quantities to form naturally and prove your hypothesis.

In any case they had better, to make up for all the glares you receive from Silver Windseekers, hiding underneath their masks of silver or porcelain or pewter, featureless except for the eyes--often changed by the Winds--that poke out, glaring at you with just short of naked contempt as they walk through the sparse woods, headed towards the hill. Not that any of the Windseekers are thrilled to see an Imperial here, but there's a certain (one-sided) rivalry between the two of you they seem to be stoking. Many of them have glowing rings, fluttering capes, in one case a bright silver necklace on a woman in the finest dress you've ever seen. Their focuses at a guess: objects of power, according to rumors necessary for them to gather the Winds so far south with any real reliability.

And then you see it properly, the great hollow mound which serves as the Guildhall for the Bronze Windseekers. Though a wooden palisade makes it hard to see properly, there are menhirs here alright and they are thick, fatted even, with the brown wind, placed in mystical, geometric patterns that harness the energies of the wild places; they themselves are carved with what look to be humanish figures, near what appear to be very tiny cows. And on a slab of stone equidistant to all of them there is a statue made of bronze and wolf skulls and sheep bones, which a stag seems to stand guard over.

"Lady Mathilde?" A voice speaking accented Reikspiel interrupts your thinking, and turning you see a man wearing a ram's skull as a mask, one hand wrapped around a belt of leather and the other holding a staff of bronze, otherwise clad in robes--of animal (or at least beast hide), yes, but tailored if more for practicality, even so slightly resembling the local fashion in that the sleeves above the elbow are somewhat baggy, or poofy, while from the elbow down it tightens to grant full control, with what looks to be a Diestro's cape though rather than silk it is made of rat-ogre hide. Somehow his(?) voice comes out perfectly in spite of the mask he wears; you'd guess he's relatively young, but you can't really tell under the mask. "My name is Dragao Diaz, the Optio of the Guild, at least for the moment. Domino Horacio has requested that I escort you if desired, and at least offer you directions."

"Directions will be fine, thank you."

"Well, they're simple enough. Just keep going straight until you reach the pool of lamentations inside the mound, he'll be there, rehafting his axe. He's just gotten back from an expedition in the mountains. I should warn you now he's not...the easiest to get along with; the wild Wind is strong with him."

"Thank you."

"Have a nice day, Lady Magister." He turns away for a moment but then looks back, "oh, and one more thing. There are lit torches at the entrance in case you need them." With that he turns and walks away, headed for the wolves.

Literally. Small pups are watching from the forest's edge.

No way out but through. You walk through the small opening of the mound, taking steps one or two at a time. Carved from the earth and dried under the sun there's a pleasant thump with each step you take, and soon enough you have left behind the light of the sun proper. Near immediately you see carved dormitories. Some are closed by doors made of materials ranging from bone to common wood, but plenty more are open; inside you invariably see a statue of bone with either the focus, a mask of variously bronze or the skull itself, or both laying before it, pointed inward.

Though the halls are dim lights leaking from the fire--where the smoke goes you can only guess--mean you can still see, even ignoring your own magic, and so you make a quick path racing forwards as Dragao instructed, sliding past the wizards who walk through halls towards a thousand rooms they probably don't want you to see. You start to smell mud and getting excited double your pace, and finally after about a ten-minute stroll through the Guildhall you do indeed enter the pool of lamentations, as described.

It is simple, a pool of water which surrounded a simple altar--a bier of stone on carved wood, stained with blood and viscera in a way no amount of water could ever fix. Two people stand in front of it, one a short--not short short, but short-- man with very shaggy hair that falls to his waist, hard and sharp nails, and a stink, a musk you catch immediately, wearing simple brown robes and belt burned with runes. There is a hunting spear and axehead with a broken haft in front of him, all of it splattered with blood, some his and some probably not unless he bleeds yellow. The other is a boy, ten or eleven perhaps, who stands by him, looking at the pool in awe. "Your quarters will be attached to mine, though the bed proper and certain facilities will be split off. There are drawers inside that are locked. If they are, do not even attempt to open them. Understand there are rules that can be bent, and rules that cannot be, and that is one of the latter." He breathes out again. "Now if you will excuse me for a moment, there is an Imperial I need to negotiate with. Go try and clean up."

He turns around, and you see the mask of the Domino Bronce. It is a half-mask of black leather, spikes projecting from about where you imagine the mouth to be. It is strapped at the front, and airholes mean the wearer can both breathe and talk. There is a strap on the front, and it covers from the nose to the jaw. And burning on his neck, bright and bronze, is the rune of Ghur, burnt there by magic. "Lady Magister, welcome to the Bronze Guildhall." He begins to work the strap for a moment until it finally gives and then places the mask, reverently, on the table. "You will have to excuse me. I was out hunting down a witch in the mountains." He shakes his head. "Ghur, Ghyran, Ulgu and Dhar, in roughly that order of prominence. Nasty stuff. But not quite as nasty as a Hydra." His eyes fall, as he sees a splatter of blood that looks human, if dried. "There were at least survivors this time." He turns back around to the table and picks up the axe, fiddling with the broken haft.

"I'm here about the Menhirs, Lord Domino, and about the knowledge you have regarding them."

"Yes, your letter did mention such, though I do appreciate that you were subtle about it." He pulls the broken hunk of wood from the steel head and then kneels down to the pool proper, running it through the water. "Myrmidia's mercy if certain people should learn about it. We have had one invasion, I would not suffer another soon." He seems to finish, gets up and puts the head back, presumably to rehaft it later. He grabs the spear as well, and plants the head in the water to get the blood off, stirring it in the pool and letting it flow overhead. "I know the rumors of Khaine worship, but it has been a very long time indeed since anything we did was to please the Lord of Murder; unless you plan to burn down the homes of Nordland for having Norscan runes carved into them, I dare say you have no grounds on which to threaten us, if that was your plan. But I am not stupid, and in return for promises to speak to certain Gray Wizards who should know better about sticking noses where they don't belong I am quite willing to send a Journeyman, formerly of the Old Families, who knows the Menhirs and the rites certainly at least well enough to write us asking for more if the need is there."

"And yet there is more?"

"There always is." He pulls the spear head out of the water, examines it for a moment and finding it good, puts it back on the altar. "There are several people who may or may not have been in charge of the warriors that eventually took my predecessor's life. Several of them are dead, but several more are not. Knowledge confirming who was in charge of the Plagueclaw Catapults that killed her so appropriate justice may meted out to the Clan responsible would be good, but heads would be even better."

"Is that all?"

"As regards our little vermin friends, yes. We are also afflicted, at the moment, with a cult dedicated to the Changer, which needs dealing with as soon as possible, and I'm not too proud to ask for help." Lastly he pulls what looks to be a crude facsimile of a man from his robes, though where he hid it you don't know. "Finally, the witch I dealt with riddled these in her forest. There is an enchantment of Ghur, yes, but also Ulgu and Ghyran. I do not detect Dhar myself, but need someone to help me work through the thread of the Ulgu enchantment to make sure of it on that end."

"Indeed. And what would I get in return?"

"Quite simply, really. For at least the promise of speaking to certain people who need a talking to, a journeyman educated in the Menhirs. For any one of the above, a full Windseeker, since my manpower will be less spread. Two, and I can convince one of the Old Families proper to take one for the team. Three and the Optio himself can go; there are people who know the Old Rites better, and there are people who know raw Ghur better, but the people who know the Rites better don't know Ghur, and the people who know Ghur don't have the rites."

"Understood, thank you much for your time."

Now, exactly what to do...
(Omake, do not actually vote)
[O] Only lean on various members of the Gray College
[O] Deal with one problem.
-[O] Skaven
-[O] Cult
-[O] Examine the enchantment
[O] Set aside time to deal with two.
-[O] Skaven
-[O] Cult
-[O] Creepy enchantment
[O] Set aside time to deal with all three

Just an omake crossing over my quest and this.

As it says above, do not actually vote (but please, feel free to tell me what you think and suggest). I don't know if there will be more.
 
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