Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- not actually Urk, I just liked the alliteration
I'd like to put the concerns some people have about the "All of the empire's gods and their cults are now our enemy" scenarios to bed a little. I'm not going to claim that it's impossible, but people keep bringing it up in a single sentence that skips all the steps between here and there.
I think that it's extremely unlikely that any of the gods will find out about our plans without us actually acting on them - there won't be any immediate bolts of lightning from just voting "truth".
The most likely scenario for gods finding out is when we actually take their aura readings - for any empire gods to find out, we'd have to be taking the readings directly from one of them, or from a god that they're on speaking terms with. I find it difficult to imagine the thread voting to do that without firm indications that it's safe to do so, we're far more likely to focus on enemy gods.
In the likely scenario that we focus on enemy gods, there's a solid possibility that if empire gods find out they don't care so long as it's not happening to them or to their allies.
In the unlikely event that the thread does vote to take reading from empire gods, Mathilde still has to get caught before there are any consequences - far from guaranteed, she already did it to Ranald without being noticed. (I get the impression that most of the "faith" voters have dismissed the idea that he's noticed but is pretending he hasn't, but for the ones who do think that: Ranald is still the likeliest god to notice Mathilde doing something and she took literally no precautions to hide what she was doing from him - getting noticed this time does not mean that we'll get noticed if we make an actual attempt at stealth.)
I think the most danger if we follow this road will come from the minor proscribed gods that we'll actually be poking - dangerous but no more so than facing other unknown but powerful enemies, so business as usual for Mathilde. The danger of earning the enmity of the empire gods is present, but massively overblown and over-represented in the current debate.
I think that it's extremely unlikely that any of the gods will find out about our plans without us actually acting on them - there won't be any immediate bolts of lightning from just voting "truth".
The most likely scenario for gods finding out is when we actually take their aura readings - for any empire gods to find out, we'd have to be taking the readings directly from one of them, or from a god that they're on speaking terms with. I find it difficult to imagine the thread voting to do that without firm indications that it's safe to do so, we're far more likely to focus on enemy gods.
In the likely scenario that we focus on enemy gods, there's a solid possibility that if empire gods find out they don't care so long as it's not happening to them or to their allies.
In the unlikely event that the thread does vote to take reading from empire gods, Mathilde still has to get caught before there are any consequences - far from guaranteed, she already did it to Ranald without being noticed. (I get the impression that most of the "faith" voters have dismissed the idea that he's noticed but is pretending he hasn't, but for the ones who do think that: Ranald is still the likeliest god to notice Mathilde doing something and she took literally no precautions to hide what she was doing from him - getting noticed this time does not mean that we'll get noticed if we make an actual attempt at stealth.)
I think the most danger if we follow this road will come from the minor proscribed gods that we'll actually be poking - dangerous but no more so than facing other unknown but powerful enemies, so business as usual for Mathilde. The danger of earning the enmity of the empire gods is present, but massively overblown and over-represented in the current debate.
cokerpilot
Here comes the rain.
[X] Truth
Whichever option wins in the end this is an impressively close vote.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
If we manage to get the imprint of a bunch of minor proscribed gods without them noticing I think that we can feel safe in getting other imprints.
- Location
- Elsewhere
[X] Faith
Yet to be decided. But if relitigation becomes a problem, it's one I'd much rather solve by ejecting those who persist in doing it after being told to stop than by railroading. I fundamentally disagree with the idea that people behaving badly in the thread is inevitable and blameless and something I have to contort the quest around.
They're considered 'Chaos Gods' by many because their followers often use Dark Magic and they're bad neighbours to have. Whether they're Chaos Gods in a metaphysical sense requires a great deal of insight that Mathilde lacks into the nature and origins of Chaos, Hashut, and the Horned Rat, and would require a definition of what 'Chaos God' actually means.
Mathilde doesn't know anywhere near enough about how the Gods work to be able to answer this question.
Vylmar.
No, Mathilde is splitting her time between Tor Lithanel and Karak Eight Peaks, so the Karag Nar penthouse is still her home.
Also Mathilde was pretty sure (and I think boney confirmed it) but we can also just take a aura read from minor divine items, we only have to be sure that they are from the particular God we want. (which is why the eternal flame was brought up, we are pretty sure that's from ulric and so can skip some research steps.)
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- Location
- Florida
[X] Truth
Oh man I'm so scared of the risks but fuck letting the snake juice research go to waste, I'm changing my vote. I'm gonna put my faith and hopes in the thread not voting on anything insanely dangerous when following this up.
Oh man I'm so scared of the risks but fuck letting the snake juice research go to waste, I'm changing my vote. I'm gonna put my faith and hopes in the thread not voting on anything insanely dangerous when following this up.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
It would be cool if we could get a full library before the elfaction. Find out just which gods are which if only so we can gloat in the privacy of our own mind. I expect that Mathilde would find knowing such a big secret satisfying in it's own right.
NexysDhyArchen
Throne Breaker
[x] Faith
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hm, fair enough. Seemed the sort of thing that could be hard to pin down (since it could just take forms like "persistent argumentation against each individual instance of proposed investigation on seemingly independent grounds") but I'll have faith (heh) in your ability to handle it.
[x] Truth
- Location
- Oklahoma
I'm just gonna point out that this is far from the only path forward we have left with AV. There's still AV in powerstones and AV in enchantments, and whatever may branch off of those.
That is, we still haven't even begun to research what AV is good for within our own paradigm.
No matter what happens here, AV research isn't over and isn't going to waste.
Dynamesmouse
Bzzzzzz
- Location
- Who knows?
Uh Guys. Faith is not "research, but with a chance of Ranald high-fives!" Like per Boney below:
If you want to do research/steal, vote for it. Faith isn't gonna be "Truth, but more headpats"
Can't pull it up right now, but pretty sure this has been nixed via Boney WOG. Something along the lines of sacrificing AV to Ranald is like sacrificing water to a fish. He has infinitely more access to Warp stuff as a being who exists within the warp than we do from our single snek.
Did you mean to vote?
- Location
- Singapore
[x] Truth
Boney M's most recent clarification swayed me from the fence. Consider this my vote of confidence in the QM's abilities to manage the issue. Also, given the size of Divided Loyalties, how issues are tackled in this quest almost certainly have reverberating effects throughout SV forum culture, so established precedences on follow up votes that are susceptible to religitation almost certainly will very much benefit the general questing culture in SV.
Disclosure: I will be very reluctant to support any vote that proposes to do this to one of the gods of the Empire or the Karaz Ankor, but in other cases.... the enemies of the Empire are fair game.
Boney M's most recent clarification swayed me from the fence. Consider this my vote of confidence in the QM's abilities to manage the issue. Also, given the size of Divided Loyalties, how issues are tackled in this quest almost certainly have reverberating effects throughout SV forum culture, so established precedences on follow up votes that are susceptible to religitation almost certainly will very much benefit the general questing culture in SV.
Disclosure: I will be very reluctant to support any vote that proposes to do this to one of the gods of the Empire or the Karaz Ankor, but in other cases.... the enemies of the Empire are fair game.
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The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Right, since I don't see anyone having posted since I last was in the thread, I'm just going to make an observation here.
During the planning of the Waystone project and the end of the Karag Dum expedition, Mathilde chose from her end of arc trait list. Near the end of that trait list, came two decently strong runner ups.
Whether this vote perfectly and precisely maps to those traits, or would end up pushing Mathilde towards gaining them is for Boney and Boney alone to know right now. Nevertheless, the similarities to the current vote's crux are remarkable.
I say this not because I believe the mechanics of these old things has a bearing on what is happening now, but because I believe the fundamental personal choice and beliefs they offer do. because I think the current vote appears to have been crafted in those traits' image.
Do you want to strive to build strong bonds with the gods, or do you want understanding of what makes them what they are? That was the dilemma those two options provided then, and this is the dilemma Mathilde appears to face here and now.
During the planning of the Waystone project and the end of the Karag Dum expedition, Mathilde chose from her end of arc trait list. Near the end of that trait list, came two decently strong runner ups.
Whether this vote perfectly and precisely maps to those traits, or would end up pushing Mathilde towards gaining them is for Boney and Boney alone to know right now. Nevertheless, the similarities to the current vote's crux are remarkable.
I say this not because I believe the mechanics of these old things has a bearing on what is happening now, but because I believe the fundamental personal choice and beliefs they offer do. because I think the current vote appears to have been crafted in those traits' image.
Do you want to strive to build strong bonds with the gods, or do you want understanding of what makes them what they are? That was the dilemma those two options provided then, and this is the dilemma Mathilde appears to face here and now.
- Location
- Bologna
[X] Truth