Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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[X] Truth
On one hand we are treading close to heresy. On the other, Mat specifically states even this small fragment is absurdly complex to the point of her being unable to replicate, but also unique to Ranald. My dream seeing this? You build a library of the Order Gods fingerprints and it becomes a surefire way to prove or disprove the presence of specific deities. No more fake priests tricking Inquisitors or civilians would be great. Who knows how much taint the fingerprint of a Chaos God would be though. Also incredibly dangerous to create in the first place.
On one hand we are treading close to heresy. On the other, Mat specifically states even this small fragment is absurdly complex to the point of her being unable to replicate, but also unique to Ranald. My dream seeing this? You build a library of the Order Gods fingerprints and it becomes a surefire way to prove or disprove the presence of specific deities. No more fake priests tricking Inquisitors or civilians would be great. Who knows how much taint the fingerprint of a Chaos God would be though. Also incredibly dangerous to create in the first place.
- Location
- Oklahoma
... Actually.
@Boney Did this experiment take place in the Room of Utter Neutrality? I looked back through the update and it doesn't seem specified but I might be blind.
Back during our initial examination of the Coin (the Don't moment) we examined it for four days within the Room before getting a response- which was the Coin activating because we had set Ranald's coin to help us study Ranald. This seems to be what actually attracted his attention to the matter and caused the letter.
In this case we were not using the coin, and if we were in the Room:
A Room that is effectively 'magic tight' by my reading, its seems possible that in absence of us rousing his attention with the Coin it caused this examination to completely slip his notice.
To be clear- I'm not saying the Room puts us completely beyond the eyes of gods, just that it might prevent us from grabbing their attention. Ranald could see in if he wanted to, but with the Room there was no signal that he might want to.
EDIT: well that's bunk then, nevermind.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I mean, making anything like that (and revealing it exists to anyone beyond Mathilde, which I imagine is part of your dream in order for it to actually see use) would invite a whole lot of backlash from every organized Cult in the Empire.
No, the Room of Calamity. Mathilde does experiments with unknown results there whenever possible.
Magnos III
(Unverified Planeswalker)
We already to this with Avatar.
Thanks for admiting that Truth is betraying Ranald (joking, joking...).
And no, I don't think Heidi was betraying us in any way, shape, or form. Heidi is a far older friend to Ranald than we are and is our ally too, her becoming Empress has been benefitial to us.
And the dwarf soul thing was not Ranald; it was Mathilde breaking the Dwarf Rep thing using a toy that Ranald gave us + all the shit we did before in K8P.
JayTar
Idea briefcase
Sure, but how I see it there are three outcomes here.
He is okay with the research and lets us go ahead after we spill the beans.
He is okay with the research, but tells us not to do it after we spill the beans.
He is not okay with the research and tells us not to do it after we spill the beans.
We only gain from not telling him in the second outcome, however I consider the harm of going through with the research if he is not okay with it much greater then the possible gain of going through with the research when he would be okay with it but only if we don't tell him.
Basically i'm okay with burning the second possibility to rule out doing the research against his will.
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Magnos III
(Unverified Planeswalker)
I cannot emphasize enough that it will be impossible to keep this from Ranald finding out. Even if he is not looking at us right now he will at some point and if we go around poking at the fingerprints of the other gods he will eventually see it. Also we are unlikely to be successful in doing so without the Coin and if we use the Coin he will know.
- Location
- Who knows?
Eh dunno if he's "come out for it" so much as been judiciously clarified that people who want research should vote for the research explicit option aka "Truth" vs. hoping Faith gets you "Truth but MORE!" Thinking about it, its a pretty good way of preventing and misunderstanding salt.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
The Faith vote is not merely faithful to Ranald, it's outright deepening the connection, by way of supplication. Which if you're down for that, great! But Truth isn't necessarily un-faithful, just not becoming more faithful.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Strictly better depends entirely on your mental discounting of the risks.
Truth could lose us Ranald.
Faith could lose us a way to become a god.
Truth could see us exiled as a black magister.
Faith could see us never understand any deeper secrets of the gods and world.
Truth could get us a stern talking to at worst, if you accept the rosiest picture painted of discovery.
Faith could get us boons from Ranald at best, nothing at worst.
Truth could play right into the hands of tzeetch somehow, allowing the fingerprints of gods to be planted to create feuds between the gods of order.
Fundementally, we are playing with a gigantic amount of leverage and almost no information. This is a gut check more than anything else.
Truth could lose us Ranald.
Faith could lose us a way to become a god.
Truth could see us exiled as a black magister.
Faith could see us never understand any deeper secrets of the gods and world.
Truth could get us a stern talking to at worst, if you accept the rosiest picture painted of discovery.
Faith could get us boons from Ranald at best, nothing at worst.
Truth could play right into the hands of tzeetch somehow, allowing the fingerprints of gods to be planted to create feuds between the gods of order.
Fundementally, we are playing with a gigantic amount of leverage and almost no information. This is a gut check more than anything else.
Voting for Faith is voting to have more faith in Ranald. Not voting for Faith does not mean voting to betray Ranald.
Mathilde doesn't know enough about the abilities and limitations of the Gods to say one way or the other.
I didn't mean Heidi but Ranald. He set her up with the divine juice he stole from Mork (or Gork, can't remember which one) without telling or consulting us.
And us upon seeing Heidi should have reported her to the Colleges. Although of course didn't because we trust in Ranald.
Personally, I don't expect to keep Ranald from finding out.
I just expect that in the same way we didn't report Heidi as we should have because we trust in Ranald he trusts on us in the same way.
- Location
- Oklahoma
I see Faith as having a strong possibility of cutting off this path of research and am completely okay with that.
Its not like we're lacking in things to do right now. We're currently starting a project that could possible upend the entire status quo. We're halfway through a sword style built to dismantle those with a thousand years more experience with us. We still haven't even begun to look into our skill that should be completely impossible by Teclisean theory. We haven't even made an attempt at using AV within the paradigm of the arcane. We have a thousand and one ideas for battle magics and other spells besides.
We haven't stalled out. We are not lacking in ways to change the world, and I'm not even convinced this is one of them.
Its not like we're lacking in things to do right now. We're currently starting a project that could possible upend the entire status quo. We're halfway through a sword style built to dismantle those with a thousand years more experience with us. We still haven't even begun to look into our skill that should be completely impossible by Teclisean theory. We haven't even made an attempt at using AV within the paradigm of the arcane. We have a thousand and one ideas for battle magics and other spells besides.
We haven't stalled out. We are not lacking in ways to change the world, and I'm not even convinced this is one of them.
[X] Truth
Yolo
Yolo
Avatar doesn't have such fine resolution as that from the get go. Mathilde needs baselines like the crystals would provide to work from to tell Divine energies apart at a glance. It came up at Karag Dum, IIRC she only natively recognizes Ranald's divine energy and Gork's.
- Location
- Netherlands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
...This feels a tad disingenous, and like trying to exploit authorial statements to make your vote of choice look like the objectively correct option.
Yeah, that sounds like a perfectly good reason to vote Faith to me. I will say that first outcome is very unlikely, but yeah, if even a chance of the third outcome is unacceptable to you, Faith is the way to go.
I get that you're frustrated with hearing some unsubstantiated claims that Ranald is guaranteed to not be bothered by the Truth vote, but I don't think Truth voters in general are somehow "pretending that they're not betraying Ranald".
I genuinely believe that the Truth vote is not a betrayal of Ranald.
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Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
I mean, I can't claim it to be entirely impossible. Tzeentch was able to stop Sigmar from giving any sort of divine revelation to the despairing Witch Hunter who would go on to become Archaon after all, even while he was in Sigmar's own consecrated temple. But a far more pressing question is this; how would you even know, let alone test for, whether a god can look at you at any given time?
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
I still don't get what people think Ranald actually did wrong with Heidi.
I like her. She's a close friend, I think, and an ally. She's definitely the person we would want as empress, especially compared to the previous one.
What's the problem that I'm supposed to see?
I like her. She's a close friend, I think, and an ally. She's definitely the person we would want as empress, especially compared to the previous one.
What's the problem that I'm supposed to see?
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I think the logic is that putting a Ranaldian con-woman in a position of power that only Mathilde knows about puts significant pressure on her.
#DividedLoyalties
- Location
- Netherlands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think the argument here is less that Ranald did something wrong with Heidi, and more that if he's not obligated to tell us about all the schemes he gets up to that might affect us/our interests, then the same might apply the other way around.
- Location
- Oklahoma
'Only Mathilde knows about her' isn't really on Ranald. That's just a result of Mathilde having met her previously and recognizing her when we met the Emperor to get headpats for Mathilde's 'how many necromancers can you decapitate in a row' high score.