STOP TRYING TO GIVE AWAY OUR SHINIES!!!!
Meh, so recent conversation has given level heads some breathing room and a hammer to ideas.

Recap for those who didn't read chat recently: Eating the Dragon Egg is a BAD IDEA. High elf support for Ostland is hurt because of cultural issues.

Anyways, I feel compelled to point out the political gains are worth a fortune compared to any object we could ever gain which does mean political favor with any of the elf factions is greater than a dragon for Freddy to ride.
 
To move on from the dragon stuff, I was wondering, since Kerillian is a major Wood Elf outcast, anybody else think we have good odds of fully recruiting her to our retinue once the dust settles, and if we make it out alive? She is rather intrigued by Freddy, and will only be more interested in him as the battles go on.
She isn't an out cast yet.

At least as I understand it.

So probably not.
 
Meh, so recent conversation has given level heads some breathing room and a hammer to ideas.

Recap for those who didn't read chat recently: Eating the Dragon Egg is a BAD IDEA. High elf support for Ostland is hurt because of cultural issues.

Anyways, I feel compelled to point out the political gains are worth a fortune compared to any object we could ever gain which does mean political favor with any of the elf factions is greater than a dragon for Freddy to ride.

I don't know. Political opinion and reputation is something that can and does change with the times, but an untainted dragon could be a generational boon.
 
Anyways, I feel compelled to point out the political gains are worth a fortune compared to any object we could ever gain which does mean political favor with any of the elf factions is greater than a dragon for Freddy to ride.
And again humiliating Caledor.

Or at least pissing off the asshat Freddy punched.

My only concern is that the Caledorians are...well Caledorians. I'd be unsurprised if their pride did cause them to declare an elfy grudge on Fred :p

I don't know. Political opinion and reputation is something that can and does change with the times, but an untainted dragon could be a generational boon.
And the elves like to go on about how fickle and changing humans are while they aren't so I'd hope to at least get a few generations of use out of that political will.

Also seeing as it'd be a generational endeavor to get a useable dragon as a big if we don't fuck raising it, I'd rather the certainty of Ulthuan doing it and benefitting from the generational boost of an elven trained dragon.
 
So any chance you can tell us what the options we'll be offered are? I mean is it possible to purify it so it won't be an evil asshole Black Dragon. Are Black Dragons automatically evil?
Well, they're full of dhar, so they're probably evil assholes unless purified of dhar, same as most dhar-contaminated things.

If not what are the good and bad effects of eating said egg, for humans, human casters, elves, elf casters, etc if there is even a difference?
Probably nobody knows except the druuchi.
 
As of yet, Kerillian is still bothersome and weird and odd to the Asrai, but that's been something ramping up for her entire life as her curiosity compels her around. Canonically, it would have taken another 2 or so centuries after the GWAC for her to finally do the 'whoopsie' which saw her leaving Athel Loren as being potentially/definitely/maybe banished/exiled perhaps, but even before then she was poking around the world outside Athel Loren on occasion in accordance with the newer WHRP books.

It's not until she curiously follows a high placed Asrai noble into a worship/sacrifice meeting involving Hekarti (which, for the record, is not illegal for the Asrai as it might be for the Asur) which involved sacrificing forest spirits [BIG NO NO]. She stopped it, killed the guy, but he was well-loved, and got booted...maybe.

Sorta.

She notoriously lies about some things or at least makes you think she might be lying about some things, etc.

Either way, at the moment she's not an official outcast or anything of the sort, just that very weird Asrai who's curiosity is known to get the better of her who ventured out into the Old World after witnessing...well, you know. Lovely Laurelorn.

Besides which, she also canonically [for Vermintide] manages to get deep into the Chaos Wastes, wanders back out, and ventures back to the Oak of Ages and becomes a Sister of the Thorn herself.

[GM jury's still out on the 'De Mandelot' bloodline being a real thing or not]
 
It's always a bit exasperating when people start dog piling on a bad idea. Speaking here either about eating a corrupted dragon egg, which is akin to eating a living human fetus, or keeping a corrupted egg cause a 'dragon mount would be cool'.

It would be inordinately complicated to keep, I'm not interested in playing Eragon quest, and the diplomatic value of the egg is significantly greater than anything we could do with it ourselves.

Does anyone have thoughts on what to do with the black arks when if we win? I think things have gone well enough thus far to entertain that as a thought. Is there any chance we could man them ourselves, or turn them into island fortresses?
 
In fairness dragons being raised in the Empire has worked in canon, but it worked with an untainted dragon. If the dragon is tainted then we really wouldn't be able to do anything with it unless we could also have it purified somehow.
 
It's always a bit exasperating when people start dog piling on a bad idea. Speaking here either about eating a corrupted dragon egg, which is akin to eating a living human fetus, or keeping a corrupted egg cause a 'dragon mount would be cool'.

It would be inordinately complicated to keep, I'm not interested in playing Eragon quest, and the diplomatic value of the egg is significantly greater than anything we could do with it ourselves.

Does anyone have thoughts on what to do with the black arks when if we win? I think things have gone well enough thus far to entertain that as a thought. Is there any chance we could man them ourselves, or turn them into island fortresses?

Depending on how everything goes, the Black Ark options are probably gonna be "the Druchii retreat with them, possibly attacked and destroyed at sea", or "they remain forever stuck on the beach, the magic that powers them destroyed." No way could we actually take it for ourselves, the High Elves would never allow someone to keep a Black Ark instead of destroying it, since that'd risk the Druchii taking it back (which they absolutely would do, trying to claim a Black Ark is def one of the ways to get Malekith's notice and get fucked up, and manning it would also be excessively expensive, to the point that the cost would probably be great enough to outweigh its benefits), so it either escapes, sinks at sea, or ends up a part of our coastline. At that point we'd just be extending Salkalten, cleansing the earth, and using it to make our port city bigger and more defensible. That's about it on the "what to do with Black Arks" front imo
 
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It's always a bit exasperating when people start dog piling on a bad idea. Speaking here either about eating a corrupted dragon egg, which is akin to eating a living human fetus, or keeping a corrupted egg cause a 'dragon mount would be cool'.

It would be inordinately complicated to keep, I'm not interested in playing Eragon quest, and the diplomatic value of the egg is significantly greater than anything we could do with it ourselves.

Does anyone have thoughts on what to do with the black arks when if we win? I think things have gone well enough thus far to entertain that as a thought. Is there any chance we could man them ourselves, or turn them into island fortresses?

Not trying to dogpile here but you … you have to realize how bad an idea that is right?

The Dhar tainted fortress that has spent god knows how long under the control of murderous sadistic elves sacrificing everything from children to the elderly in horridly horrific rituals and doing god knows what else inside of it being powered by magic that quite frankly we wouldn't have access to in the first place even if it wasn't a monster filled trap filled abomination of a thing
 
Yes, I do know sailing it would be a bad idea. I'm mostly curious if it would be technically feasible. Wondering what the impact of dhar corruption would be. I'm new enough that I know it's bad, but I don't know the ramifications. Like if it's related to chaos or something else.
 
Yes, I do know sailing it would be a bad idea. I'm mostly curious if it would be technically feasible. Wondering what the impact of dhar corruption would be. I'm new enough that I know it's bad, but I don't know the ramifications. Like if it's related to chaos or something else.

Dhar pretty much is Chaos. All magic in Warhammer has its source in the two gates to the Realm of Chaos at the planet's poles and Dhar is the winds of magic smashed together into their rawest form. For what the impact of massive amounts of Dhar corruption would be, one can just look at the Chaos Wastes.
 
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Perhaps the Everqueen can purify one of the Black Arks and give it to Tyrion to go hunting other Black Arks. With Teclis's help, he could probably upgrade it into a truly terrifying vessel.
 
For the record, Black Arks are spectacularly well-contained Dhar-wise. Otherwise. Well. You know.

Even if they're more resistant, it wouldn't be great for all Druchii to suffer from it as if it were some cartoonish fantasy version of a Soviet super Nuclear Reactor from Red Alert 3 or whatever.

Nah. Gotrek and Felix had a good chunk of time spent on a Black Ark. It wasn't pleasant, of course, but they weren't just suddenly dying from Dhar-radiation either. Additionally, they saw plenty of slaves there doing things, a variety of kinds, also not suddenly just exploding into Chaos Spawn and what not. Was even a large contingent (100~ I think?) of dwarfs who had been enslaved for a long while too, who had been broken with despair and what not but at the end all became Slayers and shaved their heads and died fighting to redeem themselves for having been broken as aforementioned. It was a whole thing.

And then it got blown up because of the Harp of Ruin, which originally was going to be used to, like, collapse the entire western seaboard of the Empire and sink Altdorf specifically? Something like that.

I'm new enough that I know it's bad, but I don't know the ramifications. Like if it's related to chaos or something else.
Dhar pretty much is Chaos. All magic in Warhammer has its source in the two gates to the Realm of Chaos at the planet's poles and Dhar is the winds of magic smashed together into their rawest form. For what the impact of massive amounts of Dhar corruption woulf be, one can just look at the Chaos Wastes.

Yeah, so the Polar Gates are the big sources of everything Chaos, and pretty much everything Magic, in Warhammer Fantasy. The Winds of Magic, the Eight Winds that is, which form up Aqshy and the rest, flow freely from the Gates out into the World from the Realm of Chaos. They, themselves, are one of those things that are part of the setting in that not everything from the Realm of Chaos are actually bad.

Sort of.

The Eight Winds are part and parcel and interwoven with reality itself at this point, and its various components. With the waning of life, the gathering of it. Death. The concept of experimentation, purification, protection, fire, passion, etc.

And they flow around.

Now, generally, they're meant to flow freely, occasionally intermingle, and inevitably get drawn towards either the Vortex at Ulthuan, or are literally used up in enacting spells or what not in the material realm. With them endlessly flowing out of the Gates.

So, what the High Elves and the Slann do is manage to perfectly weave all 8 Winds into a single beautiful super harmonious thing which is capable of doing tremendous stuff, known as High/True Magic, or Qhaysh. It is known, when wielded properly, to be capable of some of the most powerful magic workings possible. Ever. And is also more versatile than any other form of magic as a result.

Dhar, on the other hand, is a collapsed bad melding of magic, which can occur both naturally and unnaturally, if the various Winds are pooled together and sorta, well here, I'll quote the wiki on four major points:

Four Major Points said:
1. Dhar, also called Dark Magic or, more rarely, Black Magic, is a form of magic that draws on all eight of the Winds of Magic yet does so in a corrupt and unbalanced way that can twist the physical environment, cause rampant mutation in the caster or bystanders, lead to the user's damnation by Chaos or otherwise damage reality itself. However, the boon of wielding Dhar is easy access to spells far more potent than those available to the Magisters of the Imperial Orders of Magic or even the High Elf Mages who can unleash the power of Qhaysh -- High Magic.
2. Those who wield magic in this way do not carefully sculpt and tweak the Winds of Magic like most wizards, so much as simply grab the winds and force them into the effect they desire through harsh and bloody-minded determination. This form of magic is the embodiment of Dhar, rightly named Dark Magic.
3. But Dark Magic is far more than simple hedge wizardry. It also encompasses the dark arts which are employed by the necromancers, the process of using the Winds of Magic to create and control the spirits of the dead. It is also the foul magic used by the Chaos Dwarfs to construct their mechanical abominations, and it especially refers to the magic used by practitioners of Chaos Magic who serve the Ruinous Powers. It is also the sadistic magic practised by the Dark Elves of Naggaroth. The final lore of Dark Magic is the foul, Warpstone-powered magic wielded by the Skaven.
4. Spells of Dark Magic are potent because they use all available magical energy in an area. But this also releases a lot more unguided and partially activated magical residue into the mortal world. This undirected magical residue can manifest itself in all sorts of unwanted ways and with often unintended side effects. The side effects can manifest as the summoning of Aethyric entities like Chaos Daemons, physical mutations unleashed on the wielder or bystanders, or psychological alterations

Either way, I'm not saying it would be wonderful to be on a Ark. No matter how you slice it, there are gonna be some real bad bits of history there that likely manifest as unfortunate psychic/emotional residue of the abominable acts performed upon them for thousands and thousands of years. But I'm also not saying that, like, charging aboard it for a fight is gonna ruin any human what does that.
 
Yeah, High/Supreme Sorceress Heshor with the Harp of Ruin in Elfslayer. She was
planning on using the Harp of Ruin to sink Ulthuan on Malekith's orders, but on a whim decided to test it out by blowing out the Empire's whole capacity for sea trade first+creating an earthquake/tsumani that would utterly devastate it first. There's a whole thing where she's so powerful at magic that she manages to make Thanquol admit she might be better at magic than him. Which, if you factor in it being fucking Thanquol of all skaven...yeah. She duels him and two other Imperial Wizards at the same time...AFTER basically stalemating a Keeper of Secrets in a similar duel first.

I'm like...66% sure that that's the G&F book that features a Black Ark.
 
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For the record, Black Arks are spectacularly well-contained Dhar-wise. Otherwise. Well. You know.

Even if they're more resistant, it wouldn't be great for all Druchii to suffer from it as if it were some cartoonish fantasy version of a Soviet super Nuclear Reactor from Red Alert 3 or whatever.

Nah. Gotrek and Felix had a good chunk of time spent on a Black Ark. It wasn't pleasant, of course, but they weren't just suddenly dying from Dhar-radiation either. Additionally, they saw plenty of slaves there doing things, a variety of kinds, also not suddenly just exploding into Chaos Spawn and what not. Was even a large contingent (100~ I think?) of dwarfs who had been enslaved for a long while too, who had been broken with despair and what not but at the end all became Slayers and shaved their heads and died fighting to redeem themselves for having been broken as aforementioned. It was a whole thing.

And then it got blown up because of the Harp of Ruin, which originally was going to be used to, like, collapse the entire western seaboard of the Empire and sink Altdorf specifically? Something like that.




Yeah, so the Polar Gates are the big sources of everything Chaos, and pretty much everything Magic, in Warhammer Fantasy. The Winds of Magic, the Eight Winds that is, which form up Aqshy and the rest, flow freely from the Gates out into the World from the Realm of Chaos. They, themselves, are one of those things that are part of the setting in that not everything from the Realm of Chaos are actually bad.

Sort of.

The Eight Winds are part and parcel and interwoven with reality itself at this point, and its various components. With the waning of life, the gathering of it. Death. The concept of experimentation, purification, protection, fire, passion, etc.

And they flow around.

Now, generally, they're meant to flow freely, occasionally intermingle, and inevitably get drawn towards either the Vortex at Ulthuan, or are literally used up in enacting spells or what not in the material realm. With them endlessly flowing out of the Gates.

So, what the High Elves and the Slann do is manage to perfectly weave all 8 Winds into a single beautiful super harmonious thing which is capable of doing tremendous stuff, known as High/True Magic, or Qhaysh. It is known, when wielded properly, to be capable of some of the most powerful magic workings possible. Ever. And is also more versatile than any other form of magic as a result.

Dhar, on the other hand, is a collapsed bad melding of magic, which can occur both naturally and unnaturally, if the various Winds are pooled together and sorta, well here, I'll quote the wiki on four major points:



Either way, I'm not saying it would be wonderful to be on a Ark. No matter how you slice it, there are gonna be some real bad bits of history there that likely manifest as unfortunate psychic/emotional residue of the abominable acts performed upon them for thousands and thousands of years. But I'm also not saying that, like, charging aboard it for a fight is gonna ruin any human what does that.

Wasn't Felix rendered immortal by being near Grimmir's axe for so long as well as able to travel through even the Chaos Wastes without being mutated in one of the Gotrek and Felix books? Most humans seem like they wouldn't fare as well as him.
 
Yeah, High/Supreme Sorceress Heshor with the Harp of Ruin in Elfslayer. She was
planning on using the Harp of Ruin to sink Ulthuan on Malekith's orders, but on a whim decided to test it out by blowing out the Empire's whole capacity for sea trade first+creating an earthquake/tsumani that would utterly devastate it first. There's a whole thing where she's so powerful at magic that she manages to make Thanquol admit she might be better at magic than him. Which, if you factor in it being fucking Thanquol of all skaven...yeah. She duels him and two other Imperial Wizards at the same time...AFTER basically stalemating a Keeper of Secrets in a similar duel first.

I'm like...66% sure that that's the G&F book that features a Black Ark.

Could a Black Ark be made into an Offering to Mannan?

Or could we relocate a Black Ark inland with it's last dregs of Power and put it somewhere useful as a permanent fortification?

Could one of the Black Arks be cannibalised to get the second functional or repurposed perhaps?

Made into a Skyfort for Ostland's Nascent Airforce?

I was thinking about the WHF floating sky castle full of treasure that was made by a Human and fly's low enough to be accessible every hundred years or so etc.
 
Wasn't Felix rendered immortal by being near Grimmir's axe for so long as well as able to travel through even the Chaos Wastes without being mutated in one of the Gotrek and Felix books? Most humans seem like they wouldn't fare as well as him.

It's left ambiguous, I'm pretty sure. We know that the Axe is definitely affecting Gotrek, thanks to Max's scene where he closely examines them in one of the middle books after they get back. But at the same time, Max however, I'm relatively sure, also says that it's impossible to be entirely certain thanks to the sheer variety of things that Felix and Gotrek have been through to be wholly certain.

Things such as being in Praag during that huge invasion of Chaos by Daemonclaw, Felix being affected not just by the Axe, but also by Karaghul, his sword, as well. Things such as diving through the Ways of the Old Ones, that weird ass tunnel of not-quite-the-Warp but filled with bubbles of quasi-parallel realities and unrealities. Travelling through the Chaos Wastes at all. Picking up the Hammer of Fate with the holy dwarf weapon scalding his flesh and body even as he did so. Backwash from the Bloodthirster's defeat immediately after that. Being touched/seen by the imprisoned Slaan Spirits in Albion.

Etc.

It might have been the Axe, it might not have just been the axe. it might have been mostly Karaghul in fact, and not the axe almost at all. I mostly remember Max going 'man what the fuck is up with you, Felix. It's too many possible things to tell, but jeez'.
 
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Can we pleae stop saying that this egg or eggs? Are tainted yes they are housing a black dragon

But torr has i believe multiple times said they are not tainted
 
Basically if is up to me what we would do with the black arks would be
1- Loot everything that is not inheritly tainted bay dar (or worse deamons)
2- as the dawi to smelt everything that is powered by dar but have valuable materials to salvage.
3 - Destroy everything else and make a big party out of it.
4- Ask the Asur to cleanse the remaining dar on the place or destroy what is too tainted to salvage.
5- turn the skeleton of the arcs in part of the fortress, its not Dawi level fortification but is good fortification.
 
Suggest making one measly dragon egg quiche, and everyone loses their minds. No chill in this thread, I swear. 😜


Yeah, joking aside, I didn't think we'd actually choose to eat it, or even have that as a real option or for Frederick to even think of such a thing IC.

If we survive the battle, it'll be interesting to decide what to do with it. I'm in the adopt it camp, myself. Avoids the headache of choosing between the Asur or Eonir and we already have griffons and a tree in the family. Why not a dragon.
 
As of yet, Kerillian is still bothersome and weird and odd to the Asrai, but that's been something ramping up for her entire life as her curiosity compels her around. Canonically, it would have taken another 2 or so centuries after the GWAC for her to finally do the 'whoopsie' which saw her leaving Athel Loren as being potentially/definitely/maybe banished/exiled perhaps, but even before then she was poking around the world outside Athel Loren on occasion in accordance with the newer WHRP books.

To me, this actually seems quite a plausible reason for Kerillian to stay longer in Ostland, if everyone will survive at least. As indicated in the lore, and explained by Torroar, her fellow Astrai are bothered by her and her curiosity. Frederick, on the other hand, seems to care much less about that, e.g. his reaction when she is looking at Oskana. As he himself states:

"Look," you hold up a finger and drink some more ostka. "If you don't, great. If you do," you cap the flask and put it back in your bandolier. "Well, just don't, hmm?"

She glances down at Brain Wounder on your waist, then back up at your utterly serious face.

"Aye."

"Great!" You smile, "If you want some of the best food in the Empire, seek out the Grand Kitchen or one of the Great Kitchens across the province. Every Festag they serve free meals to those without money, big ones, but they serve leftovers and scraps on the regular daily to those who can't pay for full meals."

Then you begin heading back into the castle as she sputters again.

"W-that's it? Just like that?"

"Why?" You half-turn to see her again. "If you're not planning on making trouble, and you don't, and you're not here as a greater representative for Athel Loren, why in Sigmar's name should I give a shit? I mean," you fully turn, "If you do end up causing trouble, it won't go well. I guarantee you that. But you said it won't, so it won't…right?"

He outright told her that as long as she doesn't cause any trouble, she is free to as the wants. Also, as is shown throughout their interactions, he is one the few people not bothered by her banter in the form of harsh remarks.

Another scenario might be that she will accompany Sadrina -if the latter survives Salkalten and stays afterwards instead of heading back to Ulthuan: she wasn't bothered by Kerillian's curiosity at all, and in fact showed quite a bit of sympathy for it.

"Oh! Interesting," Sadrina says while circling the wary Kerillian. "So tell me, young Asrai, why Ostland of all places?" She then leans in as Kerillian murmurs something. "Oh! Now that, I understand."


'm like...66% sure that that's the G&F book that features a Black Ark.

Indeed, quite a decent amount of the book takes place in it.
 
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