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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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SuperSonicSound said:
If we don't claim the mining colony there is every chance that the Cardassians will claim it, more importantly the Rennie wont see active service for more than ten years. Any war between us and Cardassia will be over by then.
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How do you know that? Why can't we have another 8 years or so of cold war?

While I would actually like the Mining Colony, I unfortunately have several problems with Plan Safeguard. For one I don't like delaying the Renaissance project any further.
I am rather baffled why there is a Diplomatic Push on the Indorions, who are already an affiliate. And unless I am missing something, getting more Explorer Crew isn't all that important.

Actaully, can someone explain to me why everyone seems to do the Temporary Explorer Corps Recruitment Drive? It costs 20pp, while recruiting a Construction Research Team, starting a Diplomatic Push, or getting the Mining Colony each cost 10 or less.
 
Gingganz said:
Actaully, can someone explain to me why everyone seems to do the Temporary Explorer Corps Recruitment Drive? It costs 20pp, while recruiting a Construction Research Team, starting a Diplomatic Push, or getting the Mining Colony each cost 10 or less.
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We need that to have enough Explorer crew to get our 5th 5 Year Mission Excelsior out when the next one under construction draws crew...next year I think.
 
UberJJK said:
That is what the Renaissance is for. As I understand it it's suppose to be a quality cruiser we can pump out by the dozen. The problem is it's about a decade away and we need cruisers now. That's where the Constitution-B comes in; it's a stopgap measure to strengthen the fleet until we can switch over to Renaissances.
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I'd classify both as medium cruisers on cost and crew requirement grounds.

I chose to put my push for diplomacy on the Seyek (which if I remember right are the xenophiles). Also open to putting it on the Caitians or the Indorions.

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Expanded Academy
-[X]NEW Request Mining Colony at Beta Corridan, 8pp (4 turns, gain +10 br / year, +10 sr / year)
-[X]Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Seyek]
-[X]Request Refit Program for Constitution class [Constitution-class acquires stat block listed below], 8 turns, 35pp
-[X]Request expanded assets for Starfleet Intelligence Command, 40pp (allow greater numbers of intelligence assets, including deployed on ships, increasing DC for Cardassian actions)
-[X]Request Allocation for an Excelsior's resources, one-off-infusion of an Excelsior's cost, 20pp
-[X]Request Academy Expansion, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)

fasquardon
 
Gingganz said:
I am rather baffled why there is a Diplomatic Push on the Indorions, who are already an affiliate. And unless I am missing something, getting more Explorer Crew isn't all that important.
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Because, as the Sydraxians have shown, sudden -100 hits to our relation with other species are possible. That would hurt our reputation with the Indorians quite alot, better to get them into the safe area above 200.
 
Gingganz said:
I am rather baffled why there is a Diplomatic Push on the Indorions, who are already an affiliate. And unless I am missing something, getting more Explorer Crew isn't all that important.

Actaully, can someone explain to me why everyone seems to do the Temporary Explorer Corps Recruitment Drive? It costs 20pp, while recruiting a Construction Research Team, starting a Diplomatic Push, or getting the Mining Colony each cost 10 or less.
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Having a reserve of Explorer crew if war breaks out is also important. One of our strongest military assets is having 4-5 'battlewagons' that can take on almost anything in the galaxy... but part of the reason we have that kind of power is because we have Explorer crews to put in those ships. A stock Excelsior is good, but lacks the sheer "kick butt and take names" potential the five-year-mission ships give us. So ensuring that the Explorer Corps stays adequately staffed is a higher priority than you might think.

Getting the Indorions (and the other affiliate races on the Cardassian border) firmly in our camp is important. If they don't go to us they'll go to the Cardassians, strengthening them and giving them a foothold on our doorstep. Moreover, they will be contributing resources, ships, and defensive facilities on that frontier. This increases our perceived strength in Cardassia (reducing the odds of them opportunistically attacking us), and increases our ability to respond if Cardassia attacks us for other reasons (say, hatred of our decadence).

Our goal here isn't to maximize the number of affiliates. It's integrate new species into the Federation in a way that increases the Federation's flexibility, diversity, and ability to respond to a crisis. Sometimes we have reason to want that process to proceed faster than in the thirty or so years it would take without diplomatic pushes.
 
Gingganz said:
How do you know that? Why can't we have another 8 years or so of cold war?
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The Cardassians are literally bombing our diplomatic meetings and attacking our Affiliates and other vessels in the commission of their duties there is no way this state of affairs can continue for eight years. War is inevitable with this kind of behaviour on their part and it will come much sooner rather than later. The Rennie won't be in service for more than 10 years. I get the federation is dovish as hell and to some degree I can respect that but at some point we kind of have to you know actually look after our own citizens instead of letting the Cardassian union murder them.

Derek58 said:
I simply like it more than any of the refits. A plan without the Constitution refit doesn't have a chance of winning, so I'm going with this one.
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The refits are to address our vital lack of any ships which can adequately combat the Cardassian vessels. So all I can understand from your logic is that you don't want us to have ships that can fight the cardis?
 
Gingganz said:
Because the Renaissance class is good.

There will always be choices that give more short-term benefits, so if we always go for those, the Renaissance will be delayed forever.
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Thing is, any realistic strategic plan balances short and long term interests. That always means neglecting some of each type, in favor of things of the other type.

If we only do short term interests things, in a decade or three our fleet will be totally obsolete and we're doomed. But if we only do long term interest things, in five years the Cardassians will be eating our lunch.
 
Derek58 said:
We need that to have enough Explorer crew to get our 5th 5 Year Mission Excelsior out when the next one under construction draws crew...next year I think.
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Damn, you are mostly right, we need more Explorer Corps. It would be enough to have them by 2309Q1, though, when the crew for the Excelsior that will finish in 2310 is deducted.

So I would prefer to delay the Explorer Corps Recruitment Drive.
 
Gingganz said:
Damn, you are mostly right, we need more Explorer Corps. It would be enough to have them by 2309Q1, though, when the crew for the Excelsior that will finish in 2310 is deducted.

So I would prefer to delay the Explorer Corps Recruitment Drive.
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Uh, no. The one under construction at Ana Font draws crews at the beginning of next year.
1 Excelsior-class @ Ana Font Shipyard (ETC 2309.Q1 - Crews deduct 2308.Q1)
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Random Member said:
Because, as the Sydraxians have shown, sudden -100 hits to our relation with other species are possible. That would hurt our reputation with the Indorians quite alot, better to get them into the safe area above 200.
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While this would certainly be nice, it is even more important to ensure that the races that are below 100 don't fall into negatives. Besides, the Indorions relations at least improve automatically every year, unlike those of our not-even-associates.
 
Derek58 said:
Uh, no. The one under construction at Ana Font draws crews at the beginning of next year.
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Sure, but we don't need the fifth Five Year Mission until 2311:
OneirosTheWriter said:
Starfleet Ambitions:
Operate no fewer than 5 concurrent Five Year Missions by 2311.
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Though I admit that having five 5YM in 2309 would be nice, so I can see the attraction of the Recruitment Drive. (I just think other things are more important.)
 
OneirosTheWriter said:
Current Federation Affiliates:
Betazoids 465/500 + 5 = 470/500
Rigellians 312/500 + 5 = 317/500
Caitians 396/500 + 8 = 404/500
Risa 213/500 + 15 = 228/500
Caldonians 203/500 + 4 = 207/500
Gaeni 192/500 + 11 = 203/500
Orions 174/500 + 21 = 195/500
Indorions 143/500 + 12 = 155/500
Apiata 100/500 + 29 = 129/500
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Unfortunately, in game narrative suggests the bell curve got shot this year, with a few exeptions (Apiata I'll blame on Blue Kirk, not sure about the Orions, maybe due to the recent CL). While I still am in favor of diplomacy in general, what our members and affiliates are asking for is defense, now. It's not time to go courting your date when getting punched in the face ;)

I'm looking for low hanging defense boosts (RBZ Starbase while we can, & the Outpost boost), the mining colony (not impacted by current fears), the needed Allocation, ONE project or refit started, Expended Intelligence, and the member world coordination office.

The plans so far, summarized...

Plan Safeguard (nix) - Refit for Connie, Expanded Intelligence, Amarkia Outpost, Mining colony, the needed Allocation, Explorer Corps Recruitment drive, and diplo on Apiata and Indorians.

Plan Derek (Derek58) - New Starbase, Amarkia Outpost, the needed Allocation, Explorer Corps Recruitment drive, Renaissance project, Expanded Intelligence, and diplo for Betazoids and Apiata.

Plan Fleet Upgrades (tryrar) - Renaissance project, Refit for Connie (both? eh), Explorer Corps Recruitment drive, the needed Allocation, Expanded Intelligence, and diplo for Apiata.

Starfleet Reform and Outreach (Erandil) - Mining colony, Coordination office, Expanded Intelligence, new starbase (I'll assume this is the 20pp), Renaissance project, and diplo for Betazoids, Kadeshi, and Yrillians.

Plan Diplomance the Cardassian Border (Gingganz) - Mining colony, Renaissance project, Expanded Intelligence, Amarkia Outpost, new skill 2 team, the needed Allocation, and diplo for Betazoids, Seyek, Yrillians, and Apiata.

None of these hit my preferences, so *sigh* yet another plan it is. Okay...

[ ][COUNCIL] Plan Block and Counter
  • NEW Request Mining Colony at Beta Corridan, 8pp (4 turns, gain +10 br / year, +10 sr / year)
  • Request new Starbase I [Write in Sector] 20pp for RBZ
  • Request expansion of Outposts in the Amarkia Sector, 10pp (4 turns, +5 Defence in Amarkia, more colonies with outposts if state of emergency ensues)
  • Request Start of Renaissance class project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 20pp
  • Request Allocation for an Excelsior's resources, one-off-infusion of an Excelsior's cost, 20pp
  • Add a Member World Coordination Office under Shipyard Ops, 30pp (allow cooperation with member worlds on ship-building priorities as part of Shipyard Ops turn phase)
  • Request expanded assets for Starfleet Intelligence Command, 40pp (allow greater numbers of intelligence assets, including deployed on ships, increasing DC for Cardassian actions)
Edit: Unless my plan gains a bunch of last minute votes, it's now between Safeguard and Plan Fleet Upgrades, which are similar at this point. I prefer the later at the moment.
 
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Derek58 said:
I'm willing to risk waiting a year, and I never expected the Renaissance to be ready in time for a war with Cardassia. If we can delay a full war that long, even better.
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So you yourself admit that waiting a year on starting the Rennie program won't make any difference for a war with the Cardies.

Whether we build the mine for extra resources and build more outposts for extra defence this year or next year will however make a difference for the war, especially if war were to suddenly break out between those two years.
 
Getting the fifth Explorer out there a year sooner may well net us something that compensates for the political will spent.

EDIT:
Six plans is probably too many; at that point you see a lot of futile vote-splitting. HearthBorn, what about "the other five plans" don't you like, and how can we get more unity?

Speaking for myself...

[X] Plan Fleet Upgrades
 
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Simon_Jester said:
Getting the fifth Explorer out there a year sooner may well net us something that compensates for the political will spent.

EDIT:
Six plans is probably too many; at that point you see a lot of futile vote-splitting. HearthBorn, what about "the other five plans" don't you like, and how can we get more unity?
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Last time we completed a council objective we received 50pp. So we absolutely shouldn't imperil early completion of that objective given how close we are.
 
Random Member said:
So you yourself admit that waiting a year on starting the Rennie program won't make any difference for a war with the Cardies.

Whether we build the mine for extra resources and build more outposts for extra defence this year or next year will however make a difference for the war, especially if war were to suddenly break out between those two years.
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Yes, that's what I said.

I'm aware it's not the optimal way of doing things, it's just my personal preference that we start the Renaissance now.
 
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Could we then persuade you that the logic of the situation dictates paying attention to short-term priorities, as well as long-term ones?

In the longest term, the Federation presumably didn't roll out a lot of Rennies until 2320 or later, but somehow managed to survive.

In the short term, we really, really need a strong strategic position on the border with Cardassia. We need allies, we need the resources for a defensive buildup, we need places to base our ships and sensor arrays. All these things are pressing necessities.

Finishing the Rennie isn't a long term need, it's a medium term one. One that matters, but isn't the only thing that matters.

Heck, long term it might be more important to do something that isn't even on the table right now, like our first round of Excelsior refits.
 
Simon_Jester said:
EDIT:
Six plans is probably too many; at that point you see a lot of futile vote-splitting. HearthBorn, what about "the other five plans" don't you like, and how can we get more unity?
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Wasting time on diplomacy - the members want us to properly repsond to the Cardassians, not talk about it.

Choosing a ship plan, not multiple. One refit or new design every other year seems enough.

Both the Amarkia Outpost and a Starbase at 20 - we need to crank up our defenses, and free up our ships to respond as needed.
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
The Cardassians are literally bombing our diplomatic meetings and attacking our Affiliates and other vessels in the commission of their duties there is no way this state of affairs can continue for eight years. War is inevitable with this kind of behaviour on their part and it will come much sooner rather than later. The Rennie won't be in service for more than 10 years. I get the federation is dovish as hell and to some degree I can respect that but at some point we kind of have to you know actually look after our own citizens instead of letting the Cardassian union murder them.
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We don't know for certain it is the Cardassians. Remember, they have a missing cruiser - we could be looking at a third group trying to cause a Cardie/Feddy war. I really hope it isn't some biophage that escaped or the Romulans.

fasquardon
 
I'd be willing to switch to any plan that fuflills those items. I actually would switch to Safeguard, if it dropped the diplo for a Starbase.
 
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