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A lot of the more expensive projects we need to spread over multiple years. Also diplomatic pushes are important to keep races in our camp and eventually turn into full members.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
the realism is less important than the comparison.
Fair point. I would very much like to have a starbase in every area eventually, which is why I see taking this option now as so worthwhile.
We could instead have two diplomatic pushes though, which I concede may be more appealing to others. (Personally, I am feeling like we've been pushing the diplomatic expansion too hard lately, and should scale back a bit.)
Yeah, though we could fix this by researching more doctrine.
Which tech team did we get from Amarkia again? The explorer team of the defensive doctrine admiral?
I really do think we need a "cheap cruiser" though - if we plan on expanding the Federation fast (which I think long term we want), we'll need a ship that is OK in stats and cheap in sr and crew to cover all the new areas.
fasquardon
Nix's Plan Safehold comes pretty close. It doesn't build the Starbase, but it does build Outposts in Amarki sector which work as a sort of distributed Starbase that provides Defense but not the repair funciton (and can't be upgraded).
EDIT: We got the Doctrine admrial.
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lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
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Also, the main point of the tech tree is to ensure that as time goes on, we should never get to a situation where we have research teams for everything. It's basically your recent research split cleaned up, expanded upon, and 4X-ified.
Hmm, I like the idea, but science is apparently already pretty important for events, so this would be a straight buff toward having more science. Would we need some similar buff for presence, or somehow nerf science to compensate?
He didn't say that this is necessarily the last chance. It's when "they forget about the Inflictor", which we don't know will happen next year or so.
And even if that does happen, RBZ starbase cost will likely just be increased to 30pp, and I'd still prefer a CBZ starbase over a RBZ starbase eventually.
Sure, the problem of not having any research be done in all categories will be solved over time as we get more research teams, so it's more of a critique of our initial state in 2300. But I would still rather have more options than "should this research time be activated for its preference". Fortunately, the recent research category split now introduces more choice, but if the tech tree doesn't expand again, we'll get into this situation again.
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I can't find any plan that expands Starfleet Academy, and IMO this is really important to prioritize. I'll put out my own plan then...
And thanks! It's good to know we got the doctrine guy.
Very true. Also, I'm feeling that it may be more important to have at least 1 diplo push and either another diplo push and either the Amarkian outposts or the mining colony.
When do we get increased resources from people? At 300 relations and 500 relations?
fasquardon
That is what the Renaissance is for. As I understand it it's suppose to be a quality cruiser we can pump out by the dozen. The problem is it's about a decade away and we need cruisers now. That's where the Constitution-B comes in; it's a stopgap measure to strengthen the fleet until we can switch over to Renaissances.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
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- Getter Valhalla
Right yes, my bad
- Location
- Germany
While pushing the same people all the time starts to fell a bit awkward, I don't see the problem with the pushes as long as we spread them out. And if we don't get the various races as associates, then the Cardassians might.
Which is why I want to start the Renaissance Project. (Yes, the Renaissance is somewhat more expensive than the refit Constellation, but it is still rather cheap and more efficient.)
My spreadsheet says it's not that important. If we do Academy expansion and Betazoid membership by 2310, we ought to be fine for shipbuilding through 2315 or so.
The QM told us that he'll put at least one Level 3 Tech in the Renaissance. So 3 years to research, followed by five years to build prototype, means if you order it today you're not getting the first wave of non-prototypes until 2317. Is the difference between 2317 and 2318 really that big a deal?
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
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- Getter Valhalla
Yes, because I'd rather wait a year on the mining colony and the outpost expansion than the Renaissance.
switching my plan over, because if we can start the Reni now, we can get it earlier.
[X][Council]Plan Fleet Upgrades
[X][Council]Plan Fleet Upgrades
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
If we don't claim the mining colony there is every chance that the Cardassians will claim it, more importantly the Rennie wont see active service for more than ten years. Any war between us and Cardassia will be over by then.
I didn't think about that, how valuable would that colony be, like realisticly?
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
It's dual purpose giving both br and sr, SR we have problems with for bottlenecks. It's also something that benefits very strongly from the nature of our mineral tech. So I'd say it's reasonably valuable but more importantly denying it to the Cardassians also means they have less resources to feed to their war machine.
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Neither of them is really cheap except in comparison to a Excelsior, but they are able to stand up to a Jaldun one on one.
With the techs we get in the next 2 years about as valuabe as an average homeworld resource wise. And the Cardassians getting it instead makes it twice as important
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
[Still trying to catch up]
EDIT: I wouldn't assume that a hypothetical Federation-Cardassian War will be over in ten years. Either of the following two scenarios could easily happen:
1) There is an extended period of this kind of skirmishing that doesn't flare up into a hot war for ten years, OR
2) There is an all-out war in a year or two... but then in ten years' time the Cardassians feel ready for Round Two.
Basically, the Cardassians at this time have the power to decide on peace or war with the Federation. Because the Federation will not attack them first, and nobody short of the Organians could make the Cardies choose "peace." This means we cannot make ANY assumptions about the timing of the war or the lack thereof.
And with the Council we have, we certainly can't make any assumptions about being able to declare war in response to Cardassian provocations in an attempt to knock them back a bit.
The Renaissance-class is so desirable because it does a great many things adequately or well. Once put into mass production (which will take 10-15 years to finish, realistically) it removes our fear of being caught out by superior enemy "light" ships, at least until we start edging up into the TNG era in another 30-40 years, and our opponents start coming out with their TNG-era "light" ships.
Since we already have a good "heavy" ship, made even better by the fact that many of our Excelsiors have Explorer Corps crews, that's an extremely desirable state of affairs.
However, if we had another ship that did all or most of the things the Rennie does, it would greatly reduce our need for the Rennie. Similarly, if we suddenly acquire a need the Rennie cannot fulfill, it greatly reduces the urgency of our need for the Rennie.
EDIT: I wouldn't assume that a hypothetical Federation-Cardassian War will be over in ten years. Either of the following two scenarios could easily happen:
1) There is an extended period of this kind of skirmishing that doesn't flare up into a hot war for ten years, OR
2) There is an all-out war in a year or two... but then in ten years' time the Cardassians feel ready for Round Two.
Basically, the Cardassians at this time have the power to decide on peace or war with the Federation. Because the Federation will not attack them first, and nobody short of the Organians could make the Cardies choose "peace." This means we cannot make ANY assumptions about the timing of the war or the lack thereof.
And with the Council we have, we certainly can't make any assumptions about being able to declare war in response to Cardassian provocations in an attempt to knock them back a bit.
If we have a realistic choice that is not Rennies to do the Rennies' job, that really wouldn't be a problem.
The Renaissance-class is so desirable because it does a great many things adequately or well. Once put into mass production (which will take 10-15 years to finish, realistically) it removes our fear of being caught out by superior enemy "light" ships, at least until we start edging up into the TNG era in another 30-40 years, and our opponents start coming out with their TNG-era "light" ships.
Since we already have a good "heavy" ship, made even better by the fact that many of our Excelsiors have Explorer Corps crews, that's an extremely desirable state of affairs.
However, if we had another ship that did all or most of the things the Rennie does, it would greatly reduce our need for the Rennie. Similarly, if we suddenly acquire a need the Rennie cannot fulfill, it greatly reduces the urgency of our need for the Rennie.
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Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
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I'm willing to risk waiting a year, and I never expected the Renaissance to be ready in time for a war with Cardassia. If we can delay a full war that long, even better.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Then why the rush on the Rennie? What's the logic that makes it a priority?
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
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I simply like it more than any of the refits. A plan without the Constitution refit doesn't have a chance of winning, so I'm going with this one.