To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Those diplomatic pushes are important to ensure that the Cardassians don't manage to rip another affiliate out from under us.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
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- Behind You
Diplomacy is never a waste. Having more allies during a war is good.
changing back my vote:
[X] Nix
[X] Nix
aledeth
The Flesh is Weak
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'd be voting for your plan if you dropped the Apiata diplo push for the mining Colony. I don't think we're in any danger of the Cardassians snaking them from us after that good roll plus the penalties that Cardies took to relations a few turns ago, and securing SR mines is incredibly important for building ships in the future.
- Location
- Panama City
Guys, you are vastly underestimating just how the hell hard it is to design a cruiser as small as the Rennie that does everything it does, and still have above 95% reliability while only using level 3 techs. If you played with the sheet, you'd see that's actually impossible without GM fiat. So what that it takes 7.5 years from the word go to have a single one existing? It gets us an impossible ship that will serve for a long time, and my plan gets us something as a stopgap in the meantime
I would do that, but the appeal to my plan is the whynotboth approach
I would do that, but the appeal to my plan is the whynotboth approach
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Thing is, that doesn't mean building up a strong response will automatically confer the necessary diplomatic benefits.
We can't adopt a forward posture like "hunt down and kill every Cardassian you see within fifty light years of 'our' planets." The Cardassians will still be interfering with us no matter how much other stuff we develop. And the Obsidian Order is too smart not to come up with an angle in response to us militarizing the border but neglecting the affiliates diplomatically. Say, something like "why, when you get right down to it, they're no different than we are." [/cardassiansmugness]
And since Cardassians can knock our relations with one species down by 100 points in a single turn, we really want to make sure we have stable relations with any affiliates we actually intend to keep.
Several plans offer this, as I recall.
This is a valid point, but we can't have literally everything; we need a balance of diplomacy, defenses, and better ships.
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- Location
- Austin, TX
A poor choice of words on my part. But part of diplomancy is backing up your words, and spending resources on being a better neighbor, is in our actions, rather than talking about being a better neighbor.
- Location
- Panama City
If I were willing to drop the diplo push in favor of the outposts, would you be willing to switch?
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
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- Behind You
More fixed bases will free up mobile assets though, since we no longer need them to garrison our sector.
- Location
- ?
- Location
- Austin, TX
I agree, but a balance can be measured over multiple years, if needed. Resolve the Cardassian near crisis, and worry about diplomatic pushes next year.
By adding fixed bases, we free up our existing mobile forces, and is much cheaper.
- Location
- somewhere
Why diplomatic pushes on the Apiata and Indorians rather than the Yrillians, Dawiar or Gretarians even though they already are affiliates:
- Because they are affiliates, and therefore pushes are 4 times as effecive.
- Because they are still in the danger zone for sudden relationship decrease knocking them out of affiliate status.
- Because they are far more important than those minor species. The Apiata are a second tier power like the Amarki, and the Indorians seem to be a third tier power with a relatively strong economy, we know about at least two separate mining colonies of theirs. The Yrillians, Dawiar and Gretarians seem more like the Betazoids but without telepathy, or even weaker than that. The Gretarians are 150 years behind technologically and the Dawiar and Yirillians aren't even important enough to rate entries in the species overview.
- Because we know the Cardassians know about them and will almost certainly continue to try to mess with our relationships with them. We have no indication which if any of those minor species the Cardassians might know about.
- Because the Indorians very likely know where Cardassia Prime is from their advanced trade negotiations. Diplomacy with them might be the best way to establish official contact.
- Because even if we picked one of the Yrillians, Dawiar or Gretarians to improve our relationship with the difference between say 35 or 55 is not big enough to keep the Cardassians out, and even if we continued and pushed that species all the way up to affiliate the Cardassians could just approach one of the others so it wouldn't change anything significant strategically.
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- ?
Bothisgood is what I'm here for.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
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- Behind You
Sorry if I misunderstood this, but are you saying that we can resolve the Cardassian situation this year and that we should thus leave diplopushes till next year?
Because I'm pretty sure we won't be able to do that, so those diplopushes are still necessary to make sure our allies stay where they are, even if the Cardassians try to sabotage our relationship with them.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Hey, I for one have a lot of respect for naval architects. Come to think of it, I also voted for you.
Do you want a plan that fulfills ALL those items? Because bluntly, if you attract 2-3 voters for your own plan, rather than for a compromise plan at least close to what you want, the odds are good a third plan will swoop in and win over both.
A LOT of things are urgent. We can't do all of them simultaneously because we're a Power, not a Superpower. The Cardassians might not take one of our affiliates out from under us if we ignore diplomacy for a turn... but then again, they might... And losing a race like the Apiata to the Cardassian sphere of influence would be much, much worse for us than the advantages of having one more starbase.
I'd actually favor outposts over starbases, at least on the Cardassian front. Part of our weakness against them is that their ships can move at will and stir up trouble in the region, and we really don't have the faintest idea where they are. A distributed network of outposts would help with that. It might also help make sure the Cardassians actually grasp that we "claim" a significant fraction of the territory between them and us. And that we aren't just letting Nash and the Enterprise-B slip the leash and wander around space making trouble for them in places we don't care about.
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
I'm cool with dropping the push for outposts.
- Location
- Austin, TX
Heh, definitely not. Improve our intelligence, our internal coordination, the ability for our existing ships to respond? That we can do.
And THIS is why I want us to shore up our 'intel' defenses, our actual ability to respond, as fast as possible. That's a year's worth of pushes, right there. We blocked a lot of Cardie attempts so far, but this one got through, and the 'scare the affiliates' tactic is likely working too.
ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
- Location
- Seattle, WA
[] Plan Derek
Not perfect, but covers what we need and uses points well enough.
Edit.
[X][Council]Plan Fleet Upgrades
Because I want to minimize our dead end constitution exposure as much as possible.
Not perfect, but covers what we need and uses points well enough.
Edit.
[X][Council]Plan Fleet Upgrades
Because I want to minimize our dead end constitution exposure as much as possible.
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Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
That was from horribly bad rolls on our end, and maybe really good ones on the Cardassian side. it won't happen often.
- Location
- Panama City
Derek himself kinda dropped his plan, so all you accomplish is voted splitting