- Location
- somewhere
I think we actually agree about half of the time or more, it's just that there is a lot less to discuss about agreements than about disagreements.
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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
I have updated my shipbuilding spreadsheet to allow manually entering a guess at what the yearly income will be for every year. (It's on the stats worksheet.) This allows more finely tuned assumptions about what resources will be available. Feel free to save a copy and play with it. Stuff that is greyed out are builds we are now committed to and cannot be changed.
- Location
- Australia
Okay, Seyek are added.
No, you cannot aim a diplomacy push at the Sydraxians, they are not picking up the phone at the moment.
Yes, it is okay to put a Starbase in the RBZ, because the Romulans are still worried about the Inflictor and wouldn't mind the extra cover. Better do it before they forget about the Inflictor, though.
No, I'm not going to tell you how long it will take to go from whoa-to-go with a research project because there are variables to it. I will say that cruiser research is a 10pt research topic, and you have to finish each tier before moving on. If you go for the strict canon offer, then I'd set it up as requiring at least one bit of tier 3 research.
Yes if you make better cruisers than explorers the Council will look at you side-eyed. Straight forward reason - only explorers and specific ships like Intrepids have the endurance built in for FYMs, so when your finest ship is a cruiser with a distinct combat flavour, they will start to doubt you.
No, you cannot aim a diplomacy push at the Sydraxians, they are not picking up the phone at the moment.
Yes, it is okay to put a Starbase in the RBZ, because the Romulans are still worried about the Inflictor and wouldn't mind the extra cover. Better do it before they forget about the Inflictor, though.
No, I'm not going to tell you how long it will take to go from whoa-to-go with a research project because there are variables to it. I will say that cruiser research is a 10pt research topic, and you have to finish each tier before moving on. If you go for the strict canon offer, then I'd set it up as requiring at least one bit of tier 3 research.
Yes if you make better cruisers than explorers the Council will look at you side-eyed. Straight forward reason - only explorers and specific ships like Intrepids have the endurance built in for FYMs, so when your finest ship is a cruiser with a distinct combat flavour, they will start to doubt you.
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I want them both, but we can probably only have one, so I think the second should be a priority.
We need a team on hull techs. Especially now that advanced weapons will occasionally bypass shields.
Expensive but worth it. We can only afford one.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
This is capped at 4 diplo pushes, right?
You know, considering how QM-admittedly overpowered the Constitution is for its 1mt weight class (for a 2270 design!), my head canon is that the Constitution and Federation class were kinda combined in this AU.
With the tensions between the Romulans and Klingons, there's no way they're going to go for that.
Actually, it would be in the Beta Quadrant. The Quadrant classification is Federation-centric, and has the split between Alpha and Beta delineated by its capital, Sol system. Though I think canon is still inconsistent here.
I'm actually really hoping that these guys form another major power like the Cardassians. It would make a far more interesting AU galaxy, more so than the canon-esque singular tension between the Cardassians and the Federation.
Ok onto the vote itself. So many juicy choices...
I agree with Nix and others that delaying the Renaissance by 1 year isn't going to matter as much as delaying the Constitution-B or some other refit by 1 year. Furthermore, we know that Cruiser research isn't going to net us anything in 1 year (remember, those techs suffixed by "II" actually are 30 points, not 15). And in any case, that point is moot because the Renaissance now apparently has a fixed research price, so to speak.
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Algalon
Herald of the Titans
- Location
- Celestial Planetarium
Can't we rationalize it using the current situation with the cardassians? With the exception of the Excelsior, all our ships underperform against their Jaldun-Destroyer. Better safe than sorry and all that?
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Presumably, the council would be less upset if started RnD on the Ambassador at the same time even if the Ambassador is not going to be ready for a long while?
- Location
- Australia
Now, I'm definitely thinking this one over.
I do think that the double-progress is over-incentivising staying in your speciality and taking away real decision making. But I also don't want to correct gameplay purely by nerfing people. So I'm in favour of 1a and 1b. Or even allow non-activated teams to work without their preference bonus, or even at half skill. Possibly just some generic teams. I do like the idea of two specs for each teams.
As for the second, well, I do like the look of 2b but I'm not sure how much it would add in practice. Would appreciate some other thoughts.
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- Location
- somewhere
The easiest solution to the first problem is to make most team have multiple preferences, e. g. Spock xenopsych and sensors. That would be a slight buff more or less canceling out the nerf splitting categories was.
Its not very realistic to have starfleet medical research warp drives anyway so no reason to set incentives for it. Might even remove the ability to research things outside your competency completely.
Its not very realistic to have starfleet medical research warp drives anyway so no reason to set incentives for it. Might even remove the ability to research things outside your competency completely.
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- Location
- USA
I don't know if we will need that though with new members contributing tech teams. We almost have one for each field now and can start doubling up after that.
here's my last(I promise) appeal about the ConnieBee.
those advocating the Constellation refit on it's own(I advocate it with the support of a 'Brawler' Cruiser) need to see what we're likely doing to the poor thing:
note that two Shermans ate it before the TIger went down, will that necessarily happen every time? no, but it'll likely to happen a good amount of the time...and the US could take those casualties because they were 3-4 person vehicles, and they still had enough production ability to flood Europe with Shermans. Can we do the same with Constellations?
those advocating the Constellation refit on it's own(I advocate it with the support of a 'Brawler' Cruiser) need to see what we're likely doing to the poor thing:
note that two Shermans ate it before the TIger went down, will that necessarily happen every time? no, but it'll likely to happen a good amount of the time...and the US could take those casualties because they were 3-4 person vehicles, and they still had enough production ability to flood Europe with Shermans. Can we do the same with Constellations?
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lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Another consideration: I believe we currently have 123 rp. Under the previous 9rp research team activation cost, we could activate all 13 teams we currently have. (Or do we have 14 teams now with that new doctrine team? I don't know if we got that immediately.) Now research team activation costs have decreased, though we don't know how much by. So getting another research team is also tempting at the low price of 10pp.
...on the other hand, Oneiros just ninja'd and the research system might still be in flux, so maybe not a good idea to try making concrete plans yet.
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Safeguard
I think allowing multiple preferences per team is be a better option than 1a, because having a 1.5x bonus requires rounding and potentially rebalancing starting skill levels. But I also think that if we have large enough tech tree with enough branching, than the current 1 preference approach may work just fine.
On 1b, to me the largest question is whether generic research teams should have exp or not. To me, the main point of them is just ensuring at least a minimum of research is done in all fields, rather than having subpar teams. On the other hand, generic research teams (with exp) also allow pricing research teams differently. For ex, a generic research team could cost 10pp, a 1-preference research team could cost 15pp, and a 2-preference research team could cost 18pp (more preferences nets diminishing returns), perhaps with discounts if we're really starved for research teams (like we currently are).
...on the other hand, Oneiros just ninja'd and the research system might still be in flux, so maybe not a good idea to try making concrete plans yet.
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Safeguard
I think allowing multiple preferences per team is be a better option than 1a, because having a 1.5x bonus requires rounding and potentially rebalancing starting skill levels. But I also think that if we have large enough tech tree with enough branching, than the current 1 preference approach may work just fine.
On 1b, to me the largest question is whether generic research teams should have exp or not. To me, the main point of them is just ensuring at least a minimum of research is done in all fields, rather than having subpar teams. On the other hand, generic research teams (with exp) also allow pricing research teams differently. For ex, a generic research team could cost 10pp, a 1-preference research team could cost 15pp, and a 2-preference research team could cost 18pp (more preferences nets diminishing returns), perhaps with discounts if we're really starved for research teams (like we currently are).
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If introducing "default research teams" as per 1b, maybe tie their quality to the science power of the fleet or something similar?
The reasons could be scientists getting experience by doing science on ships, thus being better when they settle down at a research institution, or because the ships are poking more interesting phenomena and thus providing more raw data and blue sky science that the research teams can apply to specific projects.
As far as the vote goes, we absolutely need to do the following:
*RBZ starbase (per word of the QM, this is the last chance to build one before the Romulans revert to business as usual)
*The Constellation refit (absolutely vital! particularly since Consties are our most tech-efficient means of filling in the defense gap - there's really no other design we have that can fill in for these guys)
*Expanded assets for Starfleet Intelligence Command (self explanatory)
I'm not sure about what else we need though. We do seem to be running low on crew. That implies we need to expand starfleet academy. Do we also need to make a push for more explorer crew, or can we make do with pushing for increased explorer recruitment from UFP members (i.e., do we need to invest in the short term option here, or can we invest in the long term)? And how are we for resources to afford ships? Do we absolutely need to request an Excelsior worth of resources?
fasquardon
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We need that to pay for the ships we ordered last quarter.
What do we need to ask for to crew the ships we ordered last quarter?
fasquardon
- Location
- USA
So on another note we will have 13 teams remainder 6 and we have 14 tech teams. So if we get 3 more RP we can activate all of them, more and we have carryover to next year.
A. We don't have the Excelsior numbers for them to be everywhere in a hypothetical war, and we don't have the money for them to be everywhere.Our Excelsiors are pretty much Tigers. The Rennies will be our Panthers, while the Ambassador would be our Maus.
B. it's going to be at least 9 years before we even get the option to build the Reni, so we need something closer to now.
that said, if we could have a 'Tiger', I'd like it to be a hypothetical Medium Cruiser or Older Explorer, so we can have our top-of-the-line Explorers available for weird stuff.
- Location
- Germany
While the latter is true, at the moment we only lack specialized teams for Construction, Personal Tech, Weapons and Starbase Design. Having a specialized team for everything is certainly achievable.
And there are still some decisions to be made. For one, what teams to we activate this turn. And because the categories are split, there is still the question which of the subcategories the team shall research. For example, will the Shields Team work on Deflector Shields or Navigational Deflectors?
So I don't think the problem is all that bad
(In reference to Intelligence versus Member World Coordination Office). I think we add the Member World Coordination Office next turn, because our next big building push will be in 2309 when the UP shipyards all open at once.
Ooooh, I really like that idea. It gives us a concrete reason to worry about the total Science score beyond "make the Federation Council happy".
Have you tried playing with my ship spreadsheet? You can experiment for yourself! I allow you to request an Excelsior's worth of resources, do a recruitment drive, and adjust for yourself what you think the yearly income will be in out years being as optimistic or pessimistic as you feel like being. Go there, save a copy of your own, and try it out. You can decide for yourself when and if we ned resources by how hard you want to push construction. I even have some hidden columns for "new yards" if you decide to expand our shipyards.
But yes, we have to request an Excelsior's worth of resources this turn to compensate for the Q4 shipbuilding we already voted on. That's not negotiable.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Also next snake pit I'd like us to activate two starship construction teams, both sets of the starship construction tech tree are going to be critical to making decent ship designs in the future which don't have paper thin hulls.
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OK. So if I am understanding that right, we are good for resources if we do the one-off excelsior infusion and we will need to expand Starfleet Academy to avoid running short on officers and enlisted manpower for non-explorer ships.
Since that forces us to take the Connie B, we the things we absolutely require this turn would look like this:
*Request new Starbase I [RBZ] 20pp for home sectors, CBZ or RBZ, 30pp for KBZ
*Request Refit Program for Constitution class [Constitution-class acquires stat block listed below], 8 turns, 35pp
*Request expanded assets for Starfleet Intelligence Command, 40pp (allow greater numbers of intelligence assets, including deployed on ships, increasing DC for Cardassian actions)
*Request Allocation for an Excelsior's resources, one-off-infusion of an Excelsior's cost, 20pp
*Request Academy Expansion, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
It doesn't have the Constie refit, but I think the ConnieB can substitute for now.
Are any of the plans like this already? (None of the plans I could find were, but I may have missed one.)
fasquardon
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- Location
- Germany
No, we don't. We could decide that having a starbase in the RBZ is not all that important. Just because something is time-sensitive doesn't mean it's urgent.
As far as I understand, we have enough Defense points to fulfill the requirements. And the Constellations are so fragile that they they are not much good if they are actually called to fight in the defense of something.
I am not altogether opposed to refitting the Constellations, but I don't think it is vital.
But that's not how it would actually go down in WWII