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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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MS-21H 'Hawke' said:
Nice way to put words into my mouth there. I never said this was a Pyyric victory, but if we decide to not take this planet, we've wasted alot of time and resources, and proved the Pacifist Faction right.

Then what's the damned point of this? Why have we had to loose the personnel we've had, why do we have so many ships in the repair yards now? Here's the point, the Sydraxians still get thier foothold in Gabriel if we don't TAKE this colony. If we don't capitalize on this, and similar things happen in the future, this war will have been useless! There's no point to the whole shooting match, and alot of our people died for nothing.
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The point is all the time and effort they put in has been setback. Their fleet savaged. And we buy ourselves time to focus on the Cardassians and not have to worry about the Sydraxians launching a raiding fleet or joining up.

We destroyed 8 Sydraxians ships and an outpost and installation. How many do you think they commission year? And they had at most 14 3 and a half years ago. Another 4 are heavily damaged and may be lost on the return home.

In exchange we have a fleet in need of some repairs but have likely have at least a year before the consider poking their noses into here. That is time for our own construction to pump out more ships and time for is to yellow light more members and time for us to give the Cardassians a bloody nose.
 
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MS-21H 'Hawke' said:
Then what's the damned point of this? Why have we had to loose the personnel we've had, why do we have so many ships in the repair yards now? Here's the point, the Sydraxians still get thier foothold in Gabriel if we don't TAKE this colony. If we don't capitalize on this, and similar things happen in the future, this war will have been useless! There's no point to the whole shooting match, and alot of our people died for nothing.
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We didn't even know these people were down there. Our intention was to roll up and do a drive-by of their ships and orbital infrastructure. And we accomplished that handily.

Now we're making things up as we go because the civies have thrown the plan off the rails.
 
Void Stalker said:
The point is all the time and effort they put in has been setback. Their fleet savaged. And we buy ourselves time to focus on the Cardassians and not have to worry about the Sydraxians launching a raiding fleet or joining up.

We destroyed 8 Sydraxians ships and an outpost and installation. How many do you think they commission year? And they had at most 18 3 and a half years ago. Another 4 are heavily damaged and may be lost on the return home.

In exchange we have a fleet in need of some repairs but have likely have at least a year before the consider poking their noses into here. That is time for our own construction to pump out more ships and time for is to yellow light more members and time for us to give the Cardassians a bloody nose.
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then the Sydraxians can't hit that world for a year, and we use the ships coming off the line to defend THAT world when we can.

chriswriter90 said:
We didn't even know these people were down there. Our intention was to roll up and do a drive-by of their ships and orbital infrastructure. And we accomplished that handily.

Now we're making things up as we go because the civies have thrown the plan off the rails.
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Now we have a ready-made colony ready for that Blue Marker on the map, and a way to block the Sydraxians from Gabriel for the rest of the war. We can even use this like Oneiros was suggesting, and hold the planet long enough to do some damage to the Ashalla Pact, and THEN give it back after we've caused some havoc.

Can we at least do something usefull with the planet before giving it back?
 
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OneirosTheWriter said:
Moreover, consider that at this point you now have civilians of the Ashalla Pact under blockade. How do you think this is playing on Cardassia?
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"We need to aquire samples of this biophage and immediately launch it at the Federation homeworld."

"What the fuck is wrong with you dude, every fucking meeting it's this biophage thing, or make a warship that's also a planet cracking missile, or some other bullshit. im so Done with this. What the hell. Like goddamn, just because it's possible doesnt mean its good."

"But they have become a threat."

"WHO INVITED THIS FUCKING EEL-THING TO THE MEETING?"
 
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OneirosTheWriter said:
Moreover, consider that at this point you now have civilians of the Ashalla Pact under blockade. How do you think this is playing on Cardassia? Ainsworth is an aggressive Admiral, and, well, aggressive commanders make things happen quickly.
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Dawiar: "You promised you could protect us! Look what your protection has got the Sydraxians! We're almost completely encircled by the Federation now! We're next!!!"

The Cardassian's sold the Ashalla Pact on the argument that the Federation, with all their too good to be true offers, were too weak to defend their members/affiliates. That only by becoming a client of the Union could you be safe. All that has now gone up in a puff of smoke.

The Federation's offers are true. The Federation can defend it's members/affiliates. They aren't safe as clients of Cardassia.
 
MS-21H 'Hawke' said:
then the Sydraxians can't hit that world for a year, and we use the ships coming off the line to defend THAT world when we can.
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They're not the only threat. The Cardassians exist, y'know. TF1 is needed to defend against them deciding to cruise over to 20 Miele and blow up our stuff.

This was a deep raid, not a general offensive.

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Briefvoice said:
I don't totally understand the distinction, but mining colonies seem to be considered to be a different thing. Places of employment rather than settlements.
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People live on them, presumably. I don't think they're commuting to them at least. Starfleet has some experience providing local security and government for groups of a few hundred to a thousand.

We also really don't know what kind of colony this is. It may turn out to be one of those.
 
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UberJJK said:
Dawiar: "You promised you could protect us! Look what your protection has got the Sydraxians! We're almost completely encircled by the Federation now! We're next!!!"

The Cardassian's sold the Ashalla Pact on the argument that the Federation, with all their too good to be true offers, were too weak to defend their members/affiliates. That only by becoming a client of the Union could you be safe. All that has now gone up in a puff of smoke.

The Federation's offers are true. The Federation can defend it's members/affiliates. They aren't safe as clients of Cardassia.
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Basically, if the Cardassians don't smash our fleet as soon as possible, the Ashalla Pact is going to fall apart, and they know it. What's more, they'll have realized now that their efforts to buy more time for their mobilization effort is a losing strategy, because clearly we have a far, far superior industrial base -- we've just given the Cardassians every impetus to go to war now, or accept the destruction of their alliance and the eventual destruction of their nation (at least, that's how they'll see it).
 
Godwinson said:
Basically, if the Cardassians don't smash our fleet as soon as possible, the Ashalla Pact is going to fall apart, and they know it. What's more, they'll have realized now that their efforts to buy more time for their mobilization effort is a losing strategy, because clearly we have a far, far superior industrial base -- we've just given the Cardassians every impetus to go to war now, or accept the destruction of their alliance and the eventual destruction of their nation (at least, that's how they'll see it).
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That's fine, as long as something comes from this victory that isn't just the ship casualties.
 
Now I'm imagining beaming down a set of PADDs with 'enter message to home here' labeled on it, waiting a day, beaming them up, flying a taskforce to a Sydraxxian border patrol, beaming the PADDs over and then having one Miranda wait there.
 
UberJJK said:
Dawiar: "You promised you could protect us! Look what your protection has got the Sydraxians! We're almost completely encircled by the Federation now! We're next!!!"

The Cardassian's sold the Ashalla Pact on the argument that the Federation, with all their too good to be true offers, were too weak to defend their members/affiliates. That only by becoming a client of the Union could you be safe. All that has now gone up in a puff of smoke.

The Federation's offers are true. The Federation can defend it's members/affiliates. They aren't safe as clients of Cardassia.
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That is a good point. It could start the cracks going in the pact, and if the Dawiar leave they may flip to us. More so since there big concern was the end of ambition but the Apiata and Amarkia are able to expand into the GBZ, so the Dawiar may see that they can still expand as members of the Federation

Godwinson said:
Basically, if the Cardassians don't smash our fleet as soon as possible, the Ashalla Pact is going to fall apart, and they know it. What's more, they'll have realized now that their efforts to buy more time for their mobilization effort is a losing strategy, because clearly we have a far, far superior industrial base -- we've just given the Cardassians every impetus to go to war now, or accept the destruction of their alliance and the eventual destruction of their nation (at least, that's how they'll see it).
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I hope it causes them to have to deal with their clients for a bit, and give us time to repair and prep. At least one of their clients was at war with them recently so they have to be worried about that happening again.
 
Godwinson said:
Basically, if the Cardassians don't smash our fleet as soon as possible, the Ashalla Pact is going to fall apart, and they know it.
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Pretty much. Unless they are making amazing gains on their side of the GBZ they pretty much have to do something flashy and impressive before the pact collapses.

I bring up the Dawiar for a reason. We entered the GBZ for the primary goal, new resources were secondary, of cutting of the Sydraxians from Cardassian space. By the sounds of it we have completely succeeded. The Sydraxians are now separated from any ally outside the Yrillians, who are currently being diplomanced by the Federation, and the Gretarians, who are less allies and more subjects.

I have no doubt the Dawiar can see what's going on and are terrified that any day now the Federation will close the Straight of Themis, cutting them off from Cardassia, and the Corvo Passage, cutting them off from Lecarre, which will the Dawiar completely surrounded by Federation territory. They'll be in the same state the Orions were before they were locked into membership.
 
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The Cardassians have at least one client liable to knife them in the back, and the Dawair are fundamentally unreliable for them because the Dawair don't dislike us and the Cardassians are in no position to keep the Dawair from flipping.
 
So, the Cardassians must react, or the pact dissolves. What can we expect?
Edit: If they would see the pact as unsaveable, they might throw most of the member fleets at us?
 
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MTB said:
So, the Cardassians must react, or the pact dissolves. What can we expect?
Edit: If they would see the pact as unsaveable, they might throw most of the member fleets at us?
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Serious attack on Collie (if they want to keep things in Cabinet War mode) or serious attack on Indoria (if they don't).
 
MTB said:
So, the Cardassians must react, or the pact dissolves. What can we expect?
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They'll presumably attempt to force a fleet action in the GBZ, how being somewhat irrelevant, or simply go to a general war.

If they do it at all. For all the tea-leaf reading in that direction it's possible they'll decide the strategic situation simply still isn't offering them much hope and "blaze of glory" isn't their thing. The Cardassians are not rash people in the main.
 
It depends.

On one side, they need to do something to shore up the Ashalla Pact or to attack our legitimacy (for example, by claiming us as the horrible occupiers and aggressors... again).

On the other, there may be sentiment that the Sydraxians are useless and they would be better off cutting them loose. Whether this sentiment filters up to the top of Central Command, I am not sure, but it will exist.
 
MTB said:
We did ask for intelligence reports on Cardassia?
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[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[X][ROM] Romulan Shipbuilding Report

[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to
[X][REPORT] Licori Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Shipyard Activity Report for: Sydraxians
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Shipbuilding

[X][SI] Rear Admiral Scott Linderley

So getting cardassians tactics report will be useful
 
How bad would it be for our escort TF if the Cardassians hit it while Ainsworth's main force is out of position?

Although I guess this question in part depends on what the Apiata are doing.
 
MTB said:
So, the Cardassians must react, or the pact dissolves. What can we expect?
Edit: If they would see the pact as unsaveable, they might throw most of the member fleets at us?
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I suspect they are going to take the majority of their fleet to the world we just conquered ASAP and threaten us to withdraw from the Ashallan pact world or be fired upon. We would probably oblige them in light of our damaged ships and the fact that we don't actually want that world. This allows them to preserve their forces in the GBZ from a fight they aren't certain to win, gives them a PR victory they can spin in order to keep in control of the pact and ingratiates the Sydraxians to them.

People who think the Cardassians are going to go all in on attacking us need to consider what goals the Cardassians are most likely pursuing in Gabriel. Given their low pace of operations thus far, they are unlikely to want to sweep us out of the border zone. Most likely they are pursuing a more defensive strategy, where they are slowly edging in to the Zone, focussing on plonking down colonies, mines and defenses. They don't need to beat us, they just need to make their chosen slice of the GBZ too hard of a nut for us to crack.

Now, the Sydraxians likely didn't quite agree with this and tried to grab more in light of the supposed softness of the Federation. They got burned for it. But if they did this independent of Cardassian command they can't really blame the Cardassians for not helping them. If the Cardassians bail them out from what they have caused in their own foolishness they will strengthen their control of Sydraxia instead of weakening it.

The other big thing they might be trying for is to extend their territory to the Sydraxian doorstep and cut of Federation expansion in that direction of space. For that gaining control of a colony world near Sydraxia would be very welcome.
 
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