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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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I can just imagine the Sydraxians milling restlessly around their unfinished colony, waiting for someone to do something. Every couple of days, a team of Starfleet officers beam down with a load of food and medicine before vanishing wordlessly.

Sydraxian: please, allow our kin to rescue us! I'm sure they'd be willing to send an unarmed transport!

Starfleet officer: ....

Sydraxian: damnit, at this point we'd happily surrender ourselves to your custody, just to get out of here!

Starfleet officer: ...

Sydraxian: CAN YOU AT LEAST ANSWER ME?

Starfleet officer: pulls out a copy of the Treaty of Celos and highlights clause b subsection d with a sad shake of the head.
 
MS-21H 'Hawke' said:
It said in the post that we broke Sydraxian dreams of a hold in Gabriel....if we keep this, we can hard deny them that dream for the whole conflict. and this lets us have a secure flank so we can hit the rest of the Ashalla Pact presence in Gabriel.
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Also completely immobilizing the main part of our fleet to do so while the Cardassians do whatever they want for months like attacking our outposts while we can't move our major combat units to respond.
 
MS-21H 'Hawke' said:
It said in the post that we broke Sydraxian dreams of a hold in Gabriel....if we keep this, we can hard deny them that dream for the whole conflict. and this lets us have a secure flank so we can hit the rest of the Ashalla Pact presence in Gabriel.
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There is stl the cardassians to worry about and dispersing our forces make them vulnerable to defeat in detail
 
MS-21H 'Hawke' said:
Why don't we just annex the colony?

We give the people the below choices:
1. Stay and become a Federation Citizen, letting them keep thier homes if they wish to stay, and enjoy all that Federation Citizenship provides.
2. Go back to thier species' home space.
3. Stay and don't take the Federation Citizenship, but be deported(or worse if they're helping the enemy) back to thier home space anyway.
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My understanding is that the Federation isn't really set up to provide the sort of mid-tier government and administration that a tiny colony requires. It's a government of governments, a sort of highly evolved version of the European Union. More integrated than the EU, but not fundamentally different in nature. Having them become "Federation citizens" would be like having someone become a "European" citizen. Great, but specifically which member world is responsible for you?

I suppose they could become Amarkian citizens....
 
I just had an idea. A devious ruleslawyering idea.

We announce the capture on the news, complete with commentary about how we'd LOVE to negotiate repatriation and POW handling but the Cardassians insisted that the Treaty of Celos prohibit us from direct diplomacy with the Sydraxians, and isn't it just a shame that these civilians are stuck in limbo because the Cardassians are vassalizing people?

It very clearly sends the message we want sent without being actual diplomacy.
 
OneirosTheWriter said:
There is, of course, another approach.
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Well, in any case, I'm going to assume unless the civilians are exiled or something for their role in the military defeat because the Sydraxians are dicks all the way down, we're going to have to arrange for transport of some of them who don't want to live there anymore. If we don't just move all of them, of course.

I dunno if we'd annex them and bring them into the Federation without their consent, doesn't seem very Federation. At best I see shoving application papers for affiliation into their hands.

Briefvoice said:
My understanding is that the Federation isn't really set up to provide the sort of mid-tier government and administration that a tiny colony requires.
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I would assume you could have a Federation-administrated colony. Highly decentralized states that aren't the European Union do it all the time. In this case it's consist more of making sure food and supplies are delivered.
 
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Void Stalker said:
There is stl the cardassians to worry about and dispersing our forces make them vulnerable to defeat in detail
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Night said:
Also completely immobilizing the main part of our fleet to do so while the Cardassians do whatever they want for months like attacking our outposts while we can't move our major combat units to respond.
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So basicly our victory means nothing, as the whole point of this wasn't the kill ships but to claim the Expanse...and your advocating against claiming what should be the spoils of this victory.
We pushed the bastards out of the expanse and wrecked a good portion of their fleet, we can afford to have the fleet do general responce or hit enemy possitions. Besides, we have the Amarki and Apiata in the Expance as well! If we abandon the colony back to them, they can eventually rebuild thier fleets and the stations...and nothing changed overall. That makes this worse then the Pyyric victories we've been getting, and means that we can't hold territory in this war, which means we're just spending personelle FOR NOTHING!
 
We can at the very least, no matter what we do with the colony. keep listening posts here and make sure to smash any Syrdraxian or Cardassion fleet trying to use this as a staging point or build an outpost again.
 
If, if, we could talk to them, and we had the idea that they were negotiating in good faith, I would certainly accept drawing borders and a DMZ or something, would could include retaining Sydraxian claims over the Lora and Deva colonies. Technically Celos prevents this kind of talk but I suppose if one of more parties wished to sneak it by, we would accept that. Or use the Yrillian middleman or something.
 
MS-21H 'Hawke' said:
So basicly our victory means nothing, as the whole point of this wasn't the kill ships but to claim the Expanse...and your advocating against claiming what should be the spoils of this victory.
We pushed the bastards out of the expanse and wrecked a good portion of their fleet, we can afford to have the fleet do general responce or hit enemy possitions. Besides, we have the Amarki and Apiata in the Expance as well! If we abandon the colony back to them, they can eventually rebuild thier fleets and the stations...and nothing changed overall. That makes this worse then the Pyyric victories we've been getting, and means that we can't hold territory in this war, which means we're just spending personelle FOR NOTHING!
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It takes 3 years to build a cruiser and 2 years to build an escort. Even with multiple berths we likely destroyed their output for the past two years. We eliminated a threat on our flanks and once we repair our ships can start working with the Amarkia and Apaita fleets to push back the cardassians. This is far from a pyrric victory.

And we are the federation we don't do spoils like a Klingon would. What we have done is show the Sydraxians they cannot maintain forces in the GBZ. We have destroyed a task force of ships, and really our last Intel report had their navy at 4 cruisers and 10 escorts at most, even with a few years of shipbuilding we took out a big chunk of their fleet.

Edit: 2310.q4 well they try
7~10 Hasque Escorts
2~4 Kalindrax Cruisers
Plus what they commissioned since then as they had some ships under construction and were doing a push to expand their fleet. Still between two engagements we destroyed or reduced to scrap the fleet they had in 2310
 
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I mean, I'm posting from how I think the Federation would react, because that's who we work for in this quest. I assume worst-case scenario is the Sydraxians and/or Cardassians throw everything at us to liberate the planet. That's an 'approach'.

EDIT:

Legate Maracthur: "I have returned."
 
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Void Stalker said:
It takes 3 years to build a cruiser and 2 years to build an escort. Even with multiple berths we likely destroyed their output for the past two years. We eliminated a threat on our flanks and once we repair our ships can start working with the Amarkia and Apaita fleets to push back the cardassians. This is far from a pyrric victory.
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Nice way to put words into my mouth there. I never said this was a Pyyric victory, but if we decide to not take this planet, we've wasted alot of time and resources, and proved the Pacifist Faction right.

Void Stalker said:
And we are the federation we don't do spoils like a Klingon would. What we have done is show the Sydraxians they cannot maintain forces in the GBZ. We have destroyed a task force of ships, and really our last Intel report had their navy at 4 cruisers and 10 escorts at most, even with a few years of shipbuilding we took out a big chunk of their fleet.
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Then what's the damned point of this? Why have we had to loose the personnel we've had, why do we have so many ships in the repair yards now? Here's the point, the Sydraxians still get thier foothold in Gabriel if we don't TAKE this colony. If we don't capitalize on this, and similar things happen in the future, this war will have been useless! There's no point to the whole shooting match, and alot of our people died for nothing.
 
Briefvoice said:
My understanding is that the Federation isn't really set up to provide the sort of mid-tier government and administration that a tiny colony requires.
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We run small SR/BR/RP colonies all the time.

MS-21H 'Hawke' said:
So basicly our victory means nothing, as the whole point of this wasn't the kill ships but to claim the Expanse...and your advocating against claiming what should be the spoils of this victory.
We pushed the bastards out of the expanse and wrecked a good portion of their fleet, we can afford to have the fleet do general responce or hit enemy possitions. Besides, we have the Amarki and Apiata in the Expance as well! If we abandon the colony back to them, they can eventually rebuild thier fleets and the stations...and nothing changed overall. That makes this worse then the Pyyric victories we've been getting, and means that we can't hold territory in this war, which means we're just spending personelle FOR NOTHING!
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This is a very overblown and kind of dumb post.

Territory that cannot be defended exists at the sufferance of one's enemies. The Sydraxi just learned this. After all, that was the point of this strike: to deny the Sydraxi territorial gains. Blowing up ships and stations was exactly the point of the attack. Because as we've already established territory you can't defend means nothing the moment someone else wants it. Victory in the GBZ will not be determined by taking planets or planting flags. It will be determined by blowing up ships, because only by having the ability blow up other people's ships if they contest your territory can you actually make territory mean something. We've taken away the Sydraxi's ability to claim this territory but that does not necessarily speak to our own ability to keep it. It reverts to being Terra Nullius; no one's.

(And where the hell have you been suggesting I'm just advocating giving the colony back? That has not been something I have suggested once and have argued vehemently against. I was the first person to suggest deporting the Sydraxi and blowing it up.)
 
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MS-21H 'Hawke' said:
So basicly our victory means nothing, as the whole point of this wasn't the kill ships but to claim the Expanse...and your advocating against claiming what should be the spoils of this victory.
We pushed the bastards out of the expanse and wrecked a good portion of their fleet, we can afford to have the fleet do general responce or hit enemy possitions. Besides, we have the Amarki and Apiata in the Expance as well! If we abandon the colony back to them, they can eventually rebuild thier fleets and the stations...and nothing changed overall. That makes this worse then the Pyyric victories we've been getting, and means that we can't hold territory in this war, which means we're just spending personelle FOR NOTHING!
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Be careful to keep perspective - you're the Federation, you're not a very annexy brand of people.

But you have crushed pretty much the entirety of what the Sydraxians could hope to deploy to the GBZ. They have nothing left to enable their auxiliaries to operate without it being suicidal. That's what you've gained.

Moreover, consider that at this point you now have civilians of the Ashalla Pact under blockade. How do you think this is playing on Cardassia? Ainsworth is an aggressive Admiral, and, well, aggressive commanders make things happen quickly.
 
Void Stalker said:
Edit: 2310.q4 well they try
7~10 Hasque Escorts
2~4 Kalindrax Cruisers
Plus what they commissioned since then as they had some ships under construction and were doing a push to expand their fleet. Still between two engagements we destroyed or reduced to scrap the fleet they had in 2310
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They also lost experienced crew. Lots. And depending on species psychology, 'fight the federation' may incur morale bonus/malus just now.
 
Night said:
(And where the hell have you been suggesting I'm just advocating giving the colony back? That has not been something I have suggested once and have argued vehemently against.)
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Arguing with the guy who's trying to advocate keeping the planet does that...and calling said person's post dumb does worse.

OneirosTheWriter said:
Be careful to keep perspective - you're the Federation, you're not a very annexy brand of people.

But you have crushed pretty much the entirety of what the Sydraxians could hope to deploy to the GBZ. They have nothing left to enable their auxiliaries to operate without it being suicidal. That's what you've gained.

Moreover, consider that at this point you now have civilians of the Ashalla Pact under blockade. How do you think this is playing on Cardassia? Ainsworth is an aggressive Admiral, and, well, aggressive commanders make things happen quickly.
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So holding a population hostage or doing a whole forced migration is better than trying to peacefully integrate the population?
 
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OneirosTheWriter said:
Moreover, consider that at this point you now have civilians of the Ashalla Pact under blockade. How do you think this is playing on Cardassia? Ainsworth is an aggressive Admiral, and, well, aggressive commanders make things happen quickly.
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MTB said:
:o - the Cardassians send a Licori Mentat in a stealth ship ... and leave evidence that it was the Federation ...
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Or a version thereof.
 
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