Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
Okay that made me laugh.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Because it's a war of positions.
We cannot easily occupy this position because we can't fortify it quickly, nor can we leave our ships there to secure it.
If we leave, the Sydraxians simply move back in and we have to hope we're in a position to blow up their outpost all over again in 12-18 months' time. Maybe we will be, maybe we won't.
To be fair, there's really not much stopping the Sydraxians from moving back in even if, say, we relocate the Sydraxian colonists to a planet under our control.
We cannot easily occupy this position because we can't fortify it quickly, nor can we leave our ships there to secure it.
If we leave, the Sydraxians simply move back in and we have to hope we're in a position to blow up their outpost all over again in 12-18 months' time. Maybe we will be, maybe we won't.
To be fair, there's really not much stopping the Sydraxians from moving back in even if, say, we relocate the Sydraxian colonists to a planet under our control.
- Location
- between Venus and Mars
Sorry, didn't mean to suggest we couldn't build any ships. We just can't maintain the same build rate as before. The Admiral that shorten's build time actually hurts us right now. While it lets us build faster, but if you can't man our builds we don't really need to build them faster. the Admiral we have is taking up a slot and buff that is less useful than others might be.
As for the proposals, the QM is everyone else. everyone else has made us offers. we make the offers and the QM role-plays each other faction. meta game I may be wasting time with proposals, in game we are just as much of a political creature as the president or any of the races or factions. If they can make proposals so can we. Now it's up to them (QM) to accept or pass up the offers. The Trick is to guess what worse reaction than NO the other factions might have. part of the fun of quests is the unknown of what we are going to do when RPing our character, but we are RPing. and in a RP you can do anything the QM allows. might not work out the way you want, but you can usually do it. the worst QM can say is no to the idea.
just my 2 cents. (Or are those stepped on raisins? oh well. nothing risked nothing gained.)
- Location
- Way to where I ought to be.
With respect, I do not share your confidence.
Humans sometimes do very illogical things when offered wealth and glory; I'm unaware of anything which would indicate that Sydraxians are different from humans in this regard. It would not surprise me to discover that entire families uprooted and left behind much or all of their wealth in order to colonize - as did many colonists throughout human history.
I hope that if the Federation Council does settle on expelling the colonists, they will offer economic reparations. If I have correctly understood the economic might of galactic governments in general (and the Federation in particular), giving a few thousand (or even tens of thousands) of Sydraxian colonists enough wealth to re-establish themselves in society and have a large sum left over ought to be trivially inexpensive - and, by the same token, far too small a gift to pay for even a single disruptor cannon, much less contribute meaningfully to the Sydraxian war industry. Aside from the primary benefit of reducing the suffering of the colonists, this might have a number of secondary benefits of the pragmatic and diplomatic variety.
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- Location
- Patriarchova
We offer conciliatory t-shirts and gift baskets?
Full on buy out of invested resource equivalent plus travel / relocation expenses.
For some reason i thought that would go without saying. It should be pocket change.
- Location
- Way to where I ought to be.
Perhaps a few choice offerings from the Federation's most memetically infectious well-loved entertainment media? In the hopes that they will upload it to their internet-equivalent, if any?
On a more serious note, though, I hope the Council comes up with a supremely elegant option that somehow allows the colonists to remain without compromising the Federation's interests or safety - but if not, if the Council does deport the colonists, anything the Federation can do to soften the blow without harming itself seems warranted, both morally and pragmatically.
On a more serious note, though, I hope the Council comes up with a supremely elegant option that somehow allows the colonists to remain without compromising the Federation's interests or safety - but if not, if the Council does deport the colonists, anything the Federation can do to soften the blow without harming itself seems warranted, both morally and pragmatically.
- Location
- between Venus and Mars
alternate plan, let them stay, it's a conquered star system. the population are the spoils. give them the full federation treatment. free everything. better life across the board. when the Sydraxians eventually come to the negotiating table and demand to have their people back, we say "sorry folks but you have to go back home." we send their people back after they know what membership in the federation is like. they go home, tell their friends, family and neighbors. spread civil unrest in the population. right now they don't know what they are missing, after we are returning displaced civilians, not our fault they don't like their home and want to join us. not our fault they are spreading civil unrest, but some of those people were born in the federation. they are federation citizens. we will not tolerate atrocities against federation citizens. Play nice or we stomp your teeth in again.
- Location
- Australia
Okay, work has been hellish today, and I'm in no mood to do much of anything, so I don't think there's likely to be a post tonight, sorry guys. :X
- Location
- Patriarchova
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Exactly. Whether or not we can keep the territory is independent of the presence of civilians. The presence of said civilians might play its part in the Sydraxian's decision process.
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Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
While this is on the councul's hand... to be honest, we lack a lot of intel, us or the council, to make a decision.
On one hand, we could use it as a "neutral port" we could turn the system into a free associated member, a protectorate of sorts, for a period of time.
On another we could expel them, assuming we have sufficient shipping to move them and their stuff
there are other options, but I think the best path would be to use this incident to open up channels with the Syndraxian leadership and depending their reaction, we might decide on any number of options.
Keep in mind the Syndraxian leadership has been pushing for a war against us for "reasons" and they have done poorly, to the point they just lost a colony world, their bridghead to the Expanse, and a nice chunk of their main combatants.
They are going to be facing a crisis soonish, if not already.
By the time the council gets around asking, we could be dealing with another administration or, by they might even cut the colonist loose. and, certainly, those reactions would modify the council's own
That is the thing of negotiations, the other sides get a say too.
The question would be, would we be able to push for a particular solution? while this is the council's matter, first and foremost, we should have some soft power and probably a voice too. The council will want to know if we can defend this... acquisition, if it wants to keep it or if it has to.
On one hand, we could use it as a "neutral port" we could turn the system into a free associated member, a protectorate of sorts, for a period of time.
On another we could expel them, assuming we have sufficient shipping to move them and their stuff
there are other options, but I think the best path would be to use this incident to open up channels with the Syndraxian leadership and depending their reaction, we might decide on any number of options.
Keep in mind the Syndraxian leadership has been pushing for a war against us for "reasons" and they have done poorly, to the point they just lost a colony world, their bridghead to the Expanse, and a nice chunk of their main combatants.
They are going to be facing a crisis soonish, if not already.
By the time the council gets around asking, we could be dealing with another administration or, by they might even cut the colonist loose. and, certainly, those reactions would modify the council's own
That is the thing of negotiations, the other sides get a say too.
The question would be, would we be able to push for a particular solution? while this is the council's matter, first and foremost, we should have some soft power and probably a voice too. The council will want to know if we can defend this... acquisition, if it wants to keep it or if it has to.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Are you okayish?
- Location
- Australia
Yeah, just want to relax - whole team had to stay overtime correcting bugs that were spotted very late in the test phase =P
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
Strange, that is the kind of thing that tends to happen on Fridays, not Mondays... (or, alternatively, right before Holidays)
Anyway, hope you can unwind at least a bit
- Location
- Australia
*sips wine, eats pizza*
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The best defense would be a diplomatic offensive - bend the Cardassian government over a barrel and make it clear that it's 'our way or the highway.'
Inform the Cardassians that, as they have taken responsibility for their clients as per the Treaty of Celos, their assistance in sending Sydraxian civilians back to their territory is not requested, but required; they will provide some number of passenger and cargo haulers, along with a respectable size military escort, to assist the Sydraxian evacuation of Lora. Failure to do so will constitute a breach of treaty, and Admiral Ainsworth will be instructed to head to Cardassia Prime to secure an explanation and, if necessary, a new treaty.
They can't afford to disclaim responsibility for their clients, for reasons that seem obvious. If the Cardassians go along with this, they lose no ships, but can't risk attacking us for the duration. If they don't go along with it, then they publicly admit that treaty obligations mean precisely nothing to them, and need to be taken down. They pushed for a treaty because they aren't ready for a war, and mistakenly thought we didn't have the stomach for such; us deliberately taking advantage of that is something they can understand and actually wrap their minds around, which is vital if we ever want to engage in meaningful diplomacy with them in the future other than launching the occasional cabinet war.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
You are thinking this people as civilian which is totally wrong. These people are military contractors. Essentially part of our enemy army in GBZ.
Removing them is not not etnic cleansing any more than Allies pushing Nazi's back from France was.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I thiiiink that might be pushing it a little, even by the standards of "how to deal with the Cardassian, knowing that the Cardassian is either at your throat or at your feet." Stepping straight up to "our fleet that is locally powerful but represents less than 1/4 of YOUR total military is going to make demands at your capital" is pretty serious escalation.
But I do like your underlying reasoning.
1) We don't actually know how Hierarchy society works and what the civilian-military relationship is.
2) We don't actually know what proportion of the personnel on the planet are 'military contractors' versus being random individuals. I mean, Deep Space Nine was a Starfleet-run facility; does that make Quark a "military contractor?"
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hmm, valid objection. Would there be a way to diplomatically posture in such a way as to leave them sputtering for weeks or months, buying the UFP time to safely evacuate the Sydraxian civilians?
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
This would depend on how the Syndraxian leadership reacts to both the defeat and the loss of their colony. Worse case scenario, they might publicly write them off, saying that they no longer consider them Syndraxians. This is, admittedly, unlikely. but...
I think the best plan is to play for time, to see how the colonists and POWs react, to see what we can learn from the, to see how the Cardassian and Syndraxian leadership reacts and how the Syndraxian public react to the latter.
Setting a course before we have an inkling how these actors will react strikes me as too adventurous, and quite unlike the council.
Do keep in mind that we might even, I stress might, sever the Syndraxians from the Cardassians and if so, might even plant a wedge, or at least the seed of doubt, within the other Cardiassian clients. The core of the matter here is that the Cardies are too far to support the Syndraxian leadership, so there is not much they can do about it.
Having them evacuate the colony would give them a voice in the matter and a place at the negotiations and would make sever the Syndraxians from them... harder
And our ultimate goal here is to reduce the power projection and capabilities of Cardassia (our as in Starfleet, the council might have other ideas)
- Location
- Australia
Gabriel Log1 - Pastebin.com <-- battle pastebin
I do want to say, all of this makes me think better of the Sydraxian fleet we fought. Remember when we looked at those hull totals and were like, LOL why didn't these dummies retreat earlier? The escaping Hasques had </25% of their hull left. Two of them were shot so full of holes I can barely believe they were operational. We wondered if there was some mistake in their ROE.
Now we know. They were trying to protect hundreds (thousands?) of their own civilians down on the planet below, fighting to the point of reason and beyond. Oh, and how deep must the shame have burned. Maybe it was foolish of them to have invited those colonists out, but they promised the mighty Sydrax Hierarchy could protect them. They never thought it could go like that, never imagined that a commander would have to give the hateful order to leave the colonists to their fate.
I recall Oneiros saying that this entire campaign would have gone much differently if we put any other commander in charge. Put in a low or medium aggression admiral, and it might have become a contest of development, each side grabbing a system, improving its defenses, and moving on to the next. Whose logistical lines will prove superior? Every side grabs as much as they can, and then it's over.
Instead we selected Rachel Ainsworth, and Ainsworth believes in winning wars, not enduring them. She put on her shitkicker boots and declared that if the mission was to claim the Gabriel Expanse for the Federation, then that's what she's going to do. Not one system for the Sydraxians. She takes chances that could lose the war in order to win it. And... she won, at least this part of her war. Taste the fruit of her victory, the Sydraxian colony at our mercy. A fruit that seems to have caught even the Council off-guard.
Now we know. They were trying to protect hundreds (thousands?) of their own civilians down on the planet below, fighting to the point of reason and beyond. Oh, and how deep must the shame have burned. Maybe it was foolish of them to have invited those colonists out, but they promised the mighty Sydrax Hierarchy could protect them. They never thought it could go like that, never imagined that a commander would have to give the hateful order to leave the colonists to their fate.
I recall Oneiros saying that this entire campaign would have gone much differently if we put any other commander in charge. Put in a low or medium aggression admiral, and it might have become a contest of development, each side grabbing a system, improving its defenses, and moving on to the next. Whose logistical lines will prove superior? Every side grabs as much as they can, and then it's over.
Instead we selected Rachel Ainsworth, and Ainsworth believes in winning wars, not enduring them. She put on her shitkicker boots and declared that if the mission was to claim the Gabriel Expanse for the Federation, then that's what she's going to do. Not one system for the Sydraxians. She takes chances that could lose the war in order to win it. And... she won, at least this part of her war. Taste the fruit of her victory, the Sydraxian colony at our mercy. A fruit that seems to have caught even the Council off-guard.