Should we not vote for what we actually want and intend to happen rather than hoping for knock-on effects? If you want trade, suggest trade. If you want to extend the program, vote that the program should be wider than the original suggestion.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
Should we not vote for what we actually want and intend to happen rather than hoping for knock-on effects? If you want trade, suggest trade. If you want to extend the program, vote that the program should be wider than the original suggestion.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Honestly, I'm voting for the original in large part because I don't think it's worth fighting over whether we're the People's Liberation Front of Judea or the Judean People's Liberation Front.
Oneiros has never given us strong reason to worry that we'd end up screwing up or missing major opportunities because we failed to word our write-in options Just So. Or wrote them with insufficient ambition.
[snip paragraph of Simon getting distracted and thinking about whether it's to our advantage to use LESS ambitiously worded write-ins when bargaining with politicians who are likely to extract a price tag for their assistance]
Oneiros has never given us strong reason to worry that we'd end up screwing up or missing major opportunities because we failed to word our write-in options Just So. Or wrote them with insufficient ambition.
[snip paragraph of Simon getting distracted and thinking about whether it's to our advantage to use LESS ambitiously worded write-ins when bargaining with politicians who are likely to extract a price tag for their assistance]
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I feel, re: the Laio, that there really isn't a pressing concern to affiliate them. They're already similarly inclined to us, fairly minor, and most importantly their primary contacts are the Honiani and Ked Paddah. Actually, come to think of it... is it just me or are the Honiani doing the affiliation thing too? Especially considering the Yan-Ros and the fact that they already effectively have a Explorer Corps... They're almost acting like a coreward mini-UFP.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
Splitters! We're the Judean Popular Front.
- Location
- USA
They secure a flank, and we don't know if we will get more events with them or not and if the events will be of the +10 or the +25 variety. What they do though is provide a relatively easy affiliate which helps with crew (.15 for each type after research this year), provide a good location to send diplomats to the Ked Peddah in following turns, and also provide another spot for our EC to head out from. In addition getting them to affiliate also start getting them the annual roll which is helpful to move them on the stage of membership.
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
[X] [COUNCIL] Plan Intelligence, Education, Diplomacy and Industrial Expansion
[X][FACTION] Approach the Expansionists. Doubtless they have heard of pro-Cardassian leanings among some Yrillians that would have them siding with the Sydraxians in the event of a general war. We would like to begin an outreach program to show ordinary Yrillian work gangs how working with the Federation aligns with their interests. Start perhaps by hiring Yrillian cargo, which would also help our shipping crunch, but other basic ideas include survey or prospecting work, space construction, exchange of goods, sponsoring entertainment tours, or hiring shipyards for civilian projects. Any sort of win-win arrangements we can offer to increase pro-Federation sentiment among the Yrillians at large.
[X][NAME] Lasieth Craft Yards
[X][FACTION] Approach the Expansionists. Doubtless they have heard of pro-Cardassian leanings among some Yrillians that would have them siding with the Sydraxians in the event of a general war. We would like to begin an outreach program to show ordinary Yrillian work gangs how working with the Federation aligns with their interests. Start perhaps by hiring Yrillian cargo, which would also help our shipping crunch, but other basic ideas include survey or prospecting work, space construction, exchange of goods, sponsoring entertainment tours, or hiring shipyards for civilian projects. Any sort of win-win arrangements we can offer to increase pro-Federation sentiment among the Yrillians at large.
[X][NAME] Lasieth Craft Yards
Actually, we've been told repeatedly to vote for what we actually want.
There is no indication in that option that the program should extend beyond ships. If we want a comprehensive program (and everyone says we do), then we should vote for a comprehensive program.
- Location
- Nova Scotia, Canada
@OneirosTheWriter The latest threadmark for shipyard ops says 2311.Q1 instead of 2314.Q1. Also in the MWCO vote we choose 1 Colony Ship, 1 Prospector and 2 Cargo Ships to start at the Vulcan and Andor yards but in the shipyard ops post it says they started 1 Colony Ship, 1 Engineering Ship and 2 Cargo Ships.
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lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Annotating the snakepit options with what's new and what's gotten cheaper and what's gotten more expensive:
As can be seen, Development faction winning the presidential election reduces shipyard & berth costs by around 10% (with UP expansion discounted a whopping 20%!) since last year. Interestingly, militarisation and threat level options are also cheaper, although I don't think the development faction is any more hungry for war than the Expansionists. Also surprisingly, costs for new ship designs, explicitly excluding the refits, have been divided by 1.2 (around 17% cheaper), even for the general cruiser, when we didn't revise any of the existing ship roles, and I have doubts that the Development party cared more about this than the Expansionists.
More importantly, there's a new option that apparently hasn't be noticed by anyone yet:
We can now organize a Vice Admiral billet for Starfleet Personnel!
With our crew problems, this 30pp option is potentially more important than Science Academy (15pp) + Starfleet Intelligence VADM (20pp).
As can be seen, Development faction winning the presidential election reduces shipyard & berth costs by around 10% (with UP expansion discounted a whopping 20%!) since last year. Interestingly, militarisation and threat level options are also cheaper, although I don't think the development faction is any more hungry for war than the Expansionists. Also surprisingly, costs for new ship designs, explicitly excluding the refits, have been divided by 1.2 (around 17% cheaper), even for the general cruiser, when we didn't revise any of the existing ship roles, and I have doubts that the Development party cared more about this than the Expansionists.
More importantly, there's a new option that apparently hasn't be noticed by anyone yet:
We can now organize a Vice Admiral billet for Starfleet Personnel!
With our crew problems, this 30pp option is potentially more important than Science Academy (15pp) + Starfleet Intelligence VADM (20pp).
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
[X] [COUNCIL] Plan Intelligence, Education, Diplomacy and Industrial Expansion
-[X] Request Academy Development, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
-[X] Request Science Academy Development, 15pp (Gain +1 Techs throughput)
-[X] Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 20pp [pure medical, possible background: split Starfleet Medical Command research into two divisions, Medical Equipment (existing team) and Experimental Treatments (new team)]
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Ulen Gao VII, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 (25) br/year)
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Peco Sigma, 8pp (4 turns, gain +10 (20) sr/year)
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Castor IV-2, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 (30) sr/year)
-[X] Request new Starbase I [Betazed] (15+12) * 0.75 = 20.25pp
-[X] Request new Shipyard at Betazed, 18pp (8 turns, 2 1mt Berths)
-[X] Request new Shipyard at Apinae , 33pp, (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth, 1 1mt Berth)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp [Yrillians]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp [Ittick-ka]
-[X] Deploy Improved Listening Posts to a Border Zone to gain a 25% chance of generating +1 Intel report for powers on that border. (Cardassian Border Zone), 20pp
-[X] Reorganise a Starfleet Command from a Rear Admiral position to a Vice Admiral position: 20pp for Starfleet Intelligence
Total = 245.25 pp.
[X][FACTION] Approach the Expansionists. Doubtless they have heard of pro-Cardassian leanings among the Yrillians that would have them siding with the Sydraxians in the event of a general war. The Council has also given frequent reminders of how squeezed Starfleet is for transports in its auxiliary fleet. Why not solve one problem with another? Yrillians are famous for building more ships than they strictly need. We would like to begin an outreach program by hiring Yrillian cargo ships and freighters to alleviate our temporary shipping crunch. Depending on availability, this could be extended to include other auxiliary ship work where the Federation's expansion has left us straining. The goal is to alleviate that strain and simultaneously to show ordinary Yrillian work gangs how working with the Federation aligns with their interests, thus increasing pro-Federation sentiment among the Yrillians at large.
[X][NAME] Lasieth Craft Yards
-[X] Request Academy Development, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
-[X] Request Science Academy Development, 15pp (Gain +1 Techs throughput)
-[X] Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 20pp [pure medical, possible background: split Starfleet Medical Command research into two divisions, Medical Equipment (existing team) and Experimental Treatments (new team)]
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Ulen Gao VII, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 (25) br/year)
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Peco Sigma, 8pp (4 turns, gain +10 (20) sr/year)
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Castor IV-2, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 (30) sr/year)
-[X] Request new Starbase I [Betazed] (15+12) * 0.75 = 20.25pp
-[X] Request new Shipyard at Betazed, 18pp (8 turns, 2 1mt Berths)
-[X] Request new Shipyard at Apinae , 33pp, (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth, 1 1mt Berth)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp [Yrillians]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp [Ittick-ka]
-[X] Deploy Improved Listening Posts to a Border Zone to gain a 25% chance of generating +1 Intel report for powers on that border. (Cardassian Border Zone), 20pp
-[X] Reorganise a Starfleet Command from a Rear Admiral position to a Vice Admiral position: 20pp for Starfleet Intelligence
Total = 245.25 pp.
[X][FACTION] Approach the Expansionists. Doubtless they have heard of pro-Cardassian leanings among the Yrillians that would have them siding with the Sydraxians in the event of a general war. The Council has also given frequent reminders of how squeezed Starfleet is for transports in its auxiliary fleet. Why not solve one problem with another? Yrillians are famous for building more ships than they strictly need. We would like to begin an outreach program by hiring Yrillian cargo ships and freighters to alleviate our temporary shipping crunch. Depending on availability, this could be extended to include other auxiliary ship work where the Federation's expansion has left us straining. The goal is to alleviate that strain and simultaneously to show ordinary Yrillian work gangs how working with the Federation aligns with their interests, thus increasing pro-Federation sentiment among the Yrillians at large.
[X][NAME] Lasieth Craft Yards
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Personnel, Diplomacy and Industrial Expansion
-[X] Request Academy Development, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
-[X] Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 20pp [pure medical, possible background: split Starfleet Medical Command research into two divisions, Medical Equipment (existing team) and Experimental Treatments (new team)]
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Castor IV-2, 8pp, 20 (30) sr/yr, 4 turns
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Peco Sigma, 8pp, 10 (20) sr/year, 4 turns
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Proxima Eridani, 8pp, 15 (20) br/yr, 4 turns
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Ulen Gao VII, 8pp, 20 (25) br/yr, 4 turns
-[X] Request new Starbase I [Betazed] (15+12) * 0.75 = 20.25pp
-[X] Request new Shipyard at Betazed, 18pp (8 turns, 2 1mt Berths)
-[X] Request new Shipyard at Apinae , 33pp, (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth, 1 1mt Berth)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp [Yrillians]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp [Ittick-ka]
-[X] Deploy Improved Listening Posts to a Border Zone to gain a 25% chance of generating +1 Intel report for powers on that border. (Cardassian Border Zone), 20pp
-[X] Reorganise a Starfleet Command from a Rear Admiral position to a Vice Admiral position: 30pp for Starfleet Personnel
35+20+8+8+8+8+(15+12)*0.75+18+33+20+20+20+30 = 248pp (rounded down), with 5pp left over.
Compared to @Briefvoice's plan, this drops the Starfleet Intelligence VADM and Science Academy with Starfleet Personnel VADM and another BR colony. The Science Academy was dropped since it wouldn't fit anymore and isn't really needed with our tech crew surplus, and the BR colony was added since it's the only other option that fit, and I'm sympathetic to @Nix's reasoning about avoiding a mining/research colony building backlog and the extra pp/rp.
I'm ambivalent on the Listening Posts, since 25% chance of +1 intel report is pretty weak IMO, and it could be traded for another diplo push. However, I'm hoping there's narrative or other hidden benefits from scattering listening posts throughout the CBZ. For ex, a slightly faster warning in case of Cardassian intrusion. I'm also wary of a Gretarian diplo push, although I'm not that opposed to it.
[X][FACTION] Approach the Expansionists. Doubtless they have heard of pro-Cardassian leanings among some Yrillians that would have them siding with the Sydraxians in the event of a general war. We would like to begin an outreach program to show ordinary Yrillian work gangs how working with the Federation aligns with their interests. Start perhaps by hiring Yrillian cargo, which would also help our shipping crunch, but other basic ideas include survey or prospecting work, space construction, exchange of goods, sponsoring entertainment tours, or hiring shipyards for civilian projects. Any sort of win-win arrangements we can offer to increase pro-Federation sentiment among the Yrillians at large.
I see both Yrillian-related proposals as close enough that Oneiros will probably treat them the same, so picking the more concise one.
[X][NAME] Gaela Craft Yards
Throwing a bone to the other proposed name.
-[X] Request Academy Development, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
-[X] Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 20pp [pure medical, possible background: split Starfleet Medical Command research into two divisions, Medical Equipment (existing team) and Experimental Treatments (new team)]
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Castor IV-2, 8pp, 20 (30) sr/yr, 4 turns
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Peco Sigma, 8pp, 10 (20) sr/year, 4 turns
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Proxima Eridani, 8pp, 15 (20) br/yr, 4 turns
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Ulen Gao VII, 8pp, 20 (25) br/yr, 4 turns
-[X] Request new Starbase I [Betazed] (15+12) * 0.75 = 20.25pp
-[X] Request new Shipyard at Betazed, 18pp (8 turns, 2 1mt Berths)
-[X] Request new Shipyard at Apinae , 33pp, (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth, 1 1mt Berth)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp [Yrillians]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp [Ittick-ka]
-[X] Deploy Improved Listening Posts to a Border Zone to gain a 25% chance of generating +1 Intel report for powers on that border. (Cardassian Border Zone), 20pp
-[X] Reorganise a Starfleet Command from a Rear Admiral position to a Vice Admiral position: 30pp for Starfleet Personnel
35+20+8+8+8+8+(15+12)*0.75+18+33+20+20+20+30 = 248pp (rounded down), with 5pp left over.
Compared to @Briefvoice's plan, this drops the Starfleet Intelligence VADM and Science Academy with Starfleet Personnel VADM and another BR colony. The Science Academy was dropped since it wouldn't fit anymore and isn't really needed with our tech crew surplus, and the BR colony was added since it's the only other option that fit, and I'm sympathetic to @Nix's reasoning about avoiding a mining/research colony building backlog and the extra pp/rp.
I'm ambivalent on the Listening Posts, since 25% chance of +1 intel report is pretty weak IMO, and it could be traded for another diplo push. However, I'm hoping there's narrative or other hidden benefits from scattering listening posts throughout the CBZ. For ex, a slightly faster warning in case of Cardassian intrusion. I'm also wary of a Gretarian diplo push, although I'm not that opposed to it.
[X][FACTION] Approach the Expansionists. Doubtless they have heard of pro-Cardassian leanings among some Yrillians that would have them siding with the Sydraxians in the event of a general war. We would like to begin an outreach program to show ordinary Yrillian work gangs how working with the Federation aligns with their interests. Start perhaps by hiring Yrillian cargo, which would also help our shipping crunch, but other basic ideas include survey or prospecting work, space construction, exchange of goods, sponsoring entertainment tours, or hiring shipyards for civilian projects. Any sort of win-win arrangements we can offer to increase pro-Federation sentiment among the Yrillians at large.
I see both Yrillian-related proposals as close enough that Oneiros will probably treat them the same, so picking the more concise one.
[X][NAME] Gaela Craft Yards
Throwing a bone to the other proposed name.
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pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] [COUNCIL] Plan Personnel, Diplomacy and Industrial Expansion
This is pretty much exactly what I want. We don't meaningfully befit from the science academy until the next Starfleet Academy distro tweak, so it can wait a year. It has all four colonies for dat sweet sweet RP and PP from colony cores and later Colony Datanet.
And it has the shipyards and starbase.
[X][FACTION] Approach the Expansionists. Doubtless they have heard of pro-Cardassian leanings among the Yrillians that would have them siding with the Sydraxians in the event of a general war. The Council has also given frequent reminders of how squeezed Starfleet is for transports in its auxiliary fleet. Why not solve one problem with another? Yrillians are famous for building more ships than they strictly need. We would like to begin an outreach program by hiring Yrillian cargo ships and freighters to alleviate our temporary shipping crunch. Depending on availability, this could be extended to include other auxiliary ship work where the Federation's expansion has left us straining. The goal is to alleviate that strain and simultaneously to show ordinary Yrillian work gangs how working with the Federation aligns with their interests, thus increasing pro-Federation sentiment among the Yrillians at large.
[X][NAME] Lasieth Craft Yards
This is pretty much exactly what I want. We don't meaningfully befit from the science academy until the next Starfleet Academy distro tweak, so it can wait a year. It has all four colonies for dat sweet sweet RP and PP from colony cores and later Colony Datanet.
And it has the shipyards and starbase.
[X][FACTION] Approach the Expansionists. Doubtless they have heard of pro-Cardassian leanings among the Yrillians that would have them siding with the Sydraxians in the event of a general war. The Council has also given frequent reminders of how squeezed Starfleet is for transports in its auxiliary fleet. Why not solve one problem with another? Yrillians are famous for building more ships than they strictly need. We would like to begin an outreach program by hiring Yrillian cargo ships and freighters to alleviate our temporary shipping crunch. Depending on availability, this could be extended to include other auxiliary ship work where the Federation's expansion has left us straining. The goal is to alleviate that strain and simultaneously to show ordinary Yrillian work gangs how working with the Federation aligns with their interests, thus increasing pro-Federation sentiment among the Yrillians at large.
[X][NAME] Lasieth Craft Yards
I'm not clear on why you think Personnel is a better VA position than Intelligence?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
GENERAL NOTE:
Can anyone give me an educated guess as to the 'natural' rate of crew increases due to research and affiliates joining the Federation? How long has it taken and/or do we expect it to take for our crew trickle to double, if we don't spend political will on Academy expansions? Would that doubling time be at least roughly consistent over the long run?
The reason I ask is as follows: Using a bit of my loan-and-interest mathematics background, I think I can use that to work out the value of crew "now" versus crew "later."
It's sort of like how there are 'perpetuity' investments that will pay off literally forever, and yet these investments have a finite value. You can pay a few thousand dollars dollars for an investment that would pay 100 dollars a year not only for the next few decades, but (at least in theory) for all eternity.
Because the value of the future payments can be in effect discounted due to interest rates
If I had a doubling time (or a tripling time, or whatever) for 'natural' crew growth, I could convert between a "permanent crew trickle" of arbitrary size, and an up-front infusion of crew. This would be useful when, for example, comparing temporary Explorer Corps recruitment drives versus Academy expansions.
===============
@Briefvoice, what do you think of @lbmaian 's modification to your plan?
I know I overlooked the "Make Personnel a vice admiralty" option. Did you consider doing it and reject it because you thought doing it for Intelligence was a higher priority? Or did you overlook it like me? I'm wavering in favor of lbmaian's "Personnel, Diplomacy, and Industrial Expansion" plan myself.
EDIT:
Oops, ninja'ed.
We clearly need benefits to counterintelligence too... but we have such benefits already, and the best probable case is that they will get somewhat better.
Can anyone give me an educated guess as to the 'natural' rate of crew increases due to research and affiliates joining the Federation? How long has it taken and/or do we expect it to take for our crew trickle to double, if we don't spend political will on Academy expansions? Would that doubling time be at least roughly consistent over the long run?
The reason I ask is as follows: Using a bit of my loan-and-interest mathematics background, I think I can use that to work out the value of crew "now" versus crew "later."
It's sort of like how there are 'perpetuity' investments that will pay off literally forever, and yet these investments have a finite value. You can pay a few thousand dollars dollars for an investment that would pay 100 dollars a year not only for the next few decades, but (at least in theory) for all eternity.
Because the value of the future payments can be in effect discounted due to interest rates
If I had a doubling time (or a tripling time, or whatever) for 'natural' crew growth, I could convert between a "permanent crew trickle" of arbitrary size, and an up-front infusion of crew. This would be useful when, for example, comparing temporary Explorer Corps recruitment drives versus Academy expansions.
===============
@Briefvoice, what do you think of @lbmaian 's modification to your plan?
I know I overlooked the "Make Personnel a vice admiralty" option. Did you consider doing it and reject it because you thought doing it for Intelligence was a higher priority? Or did you overlook it like me? I'm wavering in favor of lbmaian's "Personnel, Diplomacy, and Industrial Expansion" plan myself.
EDIT:
Oops, ninja'ed.
I imagine the reasoning is that promoting a new vice admiral of Personnel is likely to give us benefits that improve crew recruitment- our greatest weakness.
We clearly need benefits to counterintelligence too... but we have such benefits already, and the best probable case is that they will get somewhat better.
None of this really answers "where's the fire that we need to spend 20pp to put out." Especially not when we have good reason to expect another +25 event in the near future, and good reason to worry that the diplomatic push won't take full effect and tip them over by itself.
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I think Intelligence is a higher priority, and it's also cheaper. We're we just freaking out about the Lcerarre replacing one of our people for three years? Making Starfleet Intelligence more importnat is how we fight that. As for Personnel, Seruk is already retiring, so we're going from a a no benefits position to a some benefits position. I'd like to see what sort of bonuses Personnel can offer as a RA position before deciding to elevate it to Vice Admiral.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Starfleet Personnel may not directly impact crew recruitment like Starfleet Academy. However, I imagine it would still affect crew retention, and medical research has already indicated that improved crew survival can translate to increased crew income. This is in addition to the promotions & rat race responsibility of Personnel. Furthermore, VADM bonuses are larger than RADM bonuses.
On the other hand, I think Starfleet Intelligence is doing fine. No need to over-react to the Lecarre situation - Linderley is no doubt already chewing out the local intel branch. I'd actually vote for Starfleet Explorer Corps VADM over a Starfleet Intelligence one considering the large number of FYMs we're starting to field and the potential for larger bonuses there.
The mistake I think you're making is to assume the the Gretarians are desperate to become Federation affiliates and will jump on the chance as soon as it's offered. Look at it from their point of view.
The Federation isn't going to attack them when the Federation-Sydraxian war begins in earnest, as I think we all know it will. On the other hand, the same isn't true in reverse. The Sydraxians will maul them at the start of any war as a lesson to what happens when you sign up with the Federation. Then there's the bias to status quo.
I think the most likely result from pushing the Gretarians over 100 is:
"Affilitate Status blocked" and the Sydraxians are driven to clamp down harder and exert more control, making the lives of the Gretarians even worse. In other words, yes, much like what happened with Bajor.
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lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
As I just said above, we're overreacting to that Lecarre scare. There's not even any indications behind-the-scenes that there was a counter-espionage roll involved at all that led to the Lecarre infiltration, and if there was such a roll, it succeeded when T'Mina discovered the ruse. It's narrative fluff that may not even matter in the long run.
If it was anything like the attempted S'harien hijacking where we barely beat the infiltration roll, then I'd be a lot more willing to try getting further intelligence bonuses. But as it stands, the Syndicate threat is winding down, and the Lecarre threat always existed, so I don't see the need to double down on our paranoia at this time.
I consider the crewing situation more serious and applicable to the upcoming Cardassian conflicts. We need every possible edge to out-compete them industrially.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
We've already seen how fighting even one serious battle was enough to place our ability to crew all our planned construction in doubt. And we won that battle, with comparatively light casualties- about equivalent to what we'd have suffered if a cruiser had been lost with all hands. Having one of our cruisers mauled a few months later just made the problem worse.
I'm with lbmaian about the crew situation being rather grave.
I'm with lbmaian about the crew situation being rather grave.
- Location
- USA
[X] Plan Intelligence, Education, Diplomacy and Industrial Expansion
-[X] Request Academy Development, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)-[X] Request Science Academy Development, 15pp (Gain +1 Techs throughput)-[X] Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 20pp [pure medical, possible background: split Starfleet Medical Command research into two divisions, Medical Equipment (existing team) and Experimental Treatments (new team)]
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Ulen Gao VII, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 (25) br/year)
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Peco Sigma, 8pp (4 turns, gain +10 (20) sr/year)
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Castor IV-2, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 (30) sr/year)
-[X] Request new Starbase I [Betazed] (15+12) * 0.75 = 20.25pp
-[X] Request new Shipyard at Betazed, 18pp (8 turns, 2 1mt Berths)
-[X] Request new Shipyard at Apinae , 33pp, (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth, 1 1mt Berth)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp [Yrillians]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp [Ittick-ka]
-[X] Deploy Improved Listening Posts to a Border Zone to gain a 25% chance of generating +1 Intel report for powers on that border. (Cardassian Border Zone), 20pp
-[X] Reorganise a Starfleet Command from a Rear Admiral position to a Vice Admiral position: 20pp for Starfleet Intelligence
I think it would be a good idea to start up a 2nd Academy location, Potentially on Amarkia or Tellar Prime. I believe that it would be a good idea to not have all our eggs in one basket, as it is. And I think that we should spread some of the Academy love to other member worlds, as well.
EDIT:
[X][FACTION] Approach the Expansionists. Doubtless they have heard of pro-Cardassian leanings among some Yrillians that would have them siding with the Sydraxians in the event of a general war. We would like to begin an outreach program to show ordinary Yrillian work gangs how working with the Federation aligns with their interests. Start perhaps by hiring Yrillian cargo, which would also help our shipping crunch, but other basic ideas include survey or prospecting work, space construction, exchange of goods, sponsoring entertainment tours, or hiring shipyards for civilian projects. Any sort of win-win arrangements we can offer to increase pro-Federation sentiment among the Yrillians at large.
-[X] Request Academy Development, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)-[X] Request Science Academy Development, 15pp (Gain +1 Techs throughput)-[X] Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 20pp [pure medical, possible background: split Starfleet Medical Command research into two divisions, Medical Equipment (existing team) and Experimental Treatments (new team)]
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Ulen Gao VII, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 (25) br/year)
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Peco Sigma, 8pp (4 turns, gain +10 (20) sr/year)
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Castor IV-2, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 (30) sr/year)
-[X] Request new Starbase I [Betazed] (15+12) * 0.75 = 20.25pp
-[X] Request new Shipyard at Betazed, 18pp (8 turns, 2 1mt Berths)
-[X] Request new Shipyard at Apinae , 33pp, (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth, 1 1mt Berth)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp [Yrillians]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp [Ittick-ka]
-[X] Deploy Improved Listening Posts to a Border Zone to gain a 25% chance of generating +1 Intel report for powers on that border. (Cardassian Border Zone), 20pp
-[X] Reorganise a Starfleet Command from a Rear Admiral position to a Vice Admiral position: 20pp for Starfleet Intelligence
I think it would be a good idea to start up a 2nd Academy location, Potentially on Amarkia or Tellar Prime. I believe that it would be a good idea to not have all our eggs in one basket, as it is. And I think that we should spread some of the Academy love to other member worlds, as well.
EDIT:
[X][FACTION] Approach the Expansionists. Doubtless they have heard of pro-Cardassian leanings among some Yrillians that would have them siding with the Sydraxians in the event of a general war. We would like to begin an outreach program to show ordinary Yrillian work gangs how working with the Federation aligns with their interests. Start perhaps by hiring Yrillian cargo, which would also help our shipping crunch, but other basic ideas include survey or prospecting work, space construction, exchange of goods, sponsoring entertainment tours, or hiring shipyards for civilian projects. Any sort of win-win arrangements we can offer to increase pro-Federation sentiment among the Yrillians at large.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think the org charts we've seen suggest that there already are off-planet satellite campuses at locations other than San Francisco, but I could be wrong.
The relationship between the Sydraxians and Gretarians is very very much similar to what the Cardassians had going with Bajor prior to the coup, even to the extent of the Gretarians asking our envoys and ships to sneak around the fringes of their space in order to avoid trouble with their heavily armed foreign overlords friends and protectors. The biggest difference is that the Sydraxians managed to get a protection racket going, whereas (so far as we know) the Cardassians didn't... But then again, for all we know, the Cardassians were using Goshawnar raiders or something as a pretext to extract payments from the Bajorans back in 2308 or whenever. We never had that much contact with Bajor, so it's hard to be sure.
Furthermore, the Sydraxians have a known history of bullying and coercion towards weak targets when they believe themselves to have a temporary advantage.
So I think expecting history to repeat itself just about exactly is logical here. The only way it makes good sense to step into that situation is if we're deliberately doing it to bait the Sydraxians into a misstep. And I'm not seeing any larger preparations to pursue such a strategy.
...
Prior to the Treaty of Celos, the situation was rather different, because diplomatic approaches to the Gretarians were in effect a channel to the Sydraxians. We were actually pursuing that angle right before the Treaty was signed. But now, that channel is closed to us
Yeah, pretty much.
The relationship between the Sydraxians and Gretarians is very very much similar to what the Cardassians had going with Bajor prior to the coup, even to the extent of the Gretarians asking our envoys and ships to sneak around the fringes of their space in order to avoid trouble with their heavily armed foreign overlords friends and protectors. The biggest difference is that the Sydraxians managed to get a protection racket going, whereas (so far as we know) the Cardassians didn't... But then again, for all we know, the Cardassians were using Goshawnar raiders or something as a pretext to extract payments from the Bajorans back in 2308 or whenever. We never had that much contact with Bajor, so it's hard to be sure.
Furthermore, the Sydraxians have a known history of bullying and coercion towards weak targets when they believe themselves to have a temporary advantage.
So I think expecting history to repeat itself just about exactly is logical here. The only way it makes good sense to step into that situation is if we're deliberately doing it to bait the Sydraxians into a misstep. And I'm not seeing any larger preparations to pursue such a strategy.
...
Prior to the Treaty of Celos, the situation was rather different, because diplomatic approaches to the Gretarians were in effect a channel to the Sydraxians. We were actually pursuing that angle right before the Treaty was signed. But now, that channel is closed to us
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It is. Hence why I think the VADM Personell is an excellent idea. Techs are by far the least grave area of the crew situation, so I don't think the Science Academy is as important as increasing PP inflow with colonies we can use to buy more regular academy expansions, though.
- Location
- USA
Except VAdm Personell is both 10 pp more than intel and we don't know what bonuses we can expect.
- Location
- somewhere
No, you misunderstood me. My point was that there is no plausible scenario where having ships ready to rush in matters much.
See below for why I think it's not at all similar to Bajor.
As for probable outcomes, there are many scenarios and I don't assign a greater than 50% probability to any of them.
- The Sydraxians notice we are trying to improve relations and attack immediately, without giving the Gretarians any chance to consider what they want their future status to be. (5%) Preparations wouldn't help.
- The Sydraxians notice right away, but don't respond immediately, giving the Gretarians time to think. (40%)
- The Gretarians decide to keep the status quo (25%)
- The Gretarians tend towards becoming affiliates (15%)
- The Sydraxians don't do anything, the Gretarians are affiliates (8%)
- The Sydraxians try to intervene (7%)
- They subjugate the Gretarians before any treaty is signed (3%)
- The Gretarians manage to sign the affiliation treaty (4%)
- The Sydraxians end up backing down (3%)
- War, with the Sydraxians violating the treaty (1%)
- The Sydraxians don't notice (45%)
- The Gretarians decide to keep the status quo (15%)
- The Gretarians tend towards becoming affiliates (30%)
- The Sydraxians don't do anything, the Gretarians are affiliates (20%)
- The Sydraxians try to intervene (10%)
- They subjugate the Gretarians before any treaty is signed (1%)
- The Gretarians manage to sign the affiliation treaty (9%)
- The Sydraxians end up backing down (7%)
- War, with the Sydraxians violating the treaty (1%)
- Something unexpected (10%)
- Bajor was in a strategically important location, and would have been a good forward base for the Federation to attack Cardassian core territories from. Gretaria is strategically unimportant, if we wanted to attack the Sydraxians we could do so better from Apiata territory.
- Bajor was much closer to Cardassian territory than to Federation territory, making the Cardassians think that they were due having it in their own sphere of influence. Gretatia is actually much closer to Federation territory than Sydraxian territory.
- The Cardassians already had an effectively constant military presence in Bajoran space, the Sydraxians don't seem to have one in Gretarian space.
- The Cardassians were convinced that they were overall on the course to winning the client race with their current strategy, (or at least found it opportune to profess such a conviction), losing Bajor would have been both a loss of face and have raised severe doubts about the prospects of that strategy, so the specter of such a loss would obviously cause some panic. We don't have any reason to believe the Sydraxians see the Gretarians as anything beyond a moderately convenient source of resources, or that losing that would shake any of their convictions.
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- Location
- USA
Next year though we will have the large number of ships finishing this year and the 4 excesliors finishing next year which puts us in a better position to contest the Sydraxians over the Graterians also right now we were told the Yrillians will side with the Sydraxians so if we wait for the push and deal we have and get the Yrillians at least neutral it will make the Sydraxians less likely to push.