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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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BungieONI said:
That's fine. In my mind it's going to be post turn 18 that we're going to be able to make the Armors at all, and I want Otrek and Gloin to be as well protected as possible until we can make the Armors and 1.5 actions on each item of the Dowry doesn't sound like enough to hit diminishing returns. Largely because if we were making a cloak by itself, overflowing it by one action wouldn't reasonably be expected to hit diminishing returns.
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Well, keeping in mind they won't actually get the dowry until the wedding and I doubt they'll speed it up just because we finish early...and because now that @Garlak mentioned it I'm in the mood to test that potential combo we've had in the wings for awhile (awhile, this quest hasn't even been going for two months...) and it's likely to be even MORE effective now that that magic is even crazier...

I would be willing to do one action on the Dowry now, and two next turn for Overflow.

[] Plan: The Gift Giver
-[ ] Helter Smelter: You're sure there's a way to more efficiently produce more Adamant, but as it is you can create at least one more smelter to increase your overall throughput. Having one work while the other recharges for instance. You can at least make one or two more before you start feeling as if you're running afoul of the Rule of Pride. [Cost: 3 actions, 1 Voidstone] Productivity Like No Other will proc. +1 Bar of Adamant every Turn instead of every other Turn. (Will count the turn it was done on) Overflow will only add progress to the next smelter and cost another Voidstone. 2 Actions

-[ ] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: Two cloaks and an amulet to be ready for the wedding of Prince Durabarr Stonehammer and Princess Orra Ironarm. All that needs to be done nowA multiwork project. [Cost: 3 actions] Due in 2 Turns. 1 Action
-[ ] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 1: You've gazed upon the face of the Ancestors a lot in the past few years, especially when you were making your alchemical flame spitters, and it's inspired you. A banner to rally behind, something that dwarfs will look to and fight all the harder with it at their back. A banner worthy of the hold of Kraka Drakk to be held aloft with pride by an equally worthy standard bearer. [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. 1 action
-[] Master Rune of Grimnir, Rune of Valaya, Rune of Spellbreaking
-[ ] [Simple] The Underway: Otrek is in less of a rush to complete this. The Holds of the North are not waylaid by enemies and are aware that with the way the weather's been, an Underway route is the only reliable way for them to stay connected. [Cost: variable normal and apprentice actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Progress per action, 1 progress per apprentice action. 21 out of 30 Progress. 7 progress a turn regardless of input. 1 action
 
Rule 4: Don’t Be Disruptive
Walliseatscheese said:
So this is @EVA-Saiyajin 's plan with the sole exception that we use the Greedy Heart to massively increase Adamant production to better let us spread its benefits sooner.

It is my personal opinion that however much additional Adamant this will give us will be worth it.
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For gods sake, people are trying way, way too hard to try to cheese the system even though the QM has repeatedly stated that it's not going to be easy to create more Adamant. Something people seem to have a really hard time getting through their head. And a huge problem with that line of thinking is that it is making a lot of assumption and ignoring logical reasoning like if it was possible to just charge it faster then it would have been brought up. As is it just seems like the smelter is limited to how much power it can harness otherwise nothing would stop us from just say making a rune that converts heat to energy and plopping all Adamant Smelters into a Volcano.
 
As requested, Oathgold Banner:

[ ] Plan Wedding Preperations and Banner
-[ ] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: Two cloaks and an amulet to be ready for the wedding of Prince Durabarr Stonehammer and Princess Orra Ironarm. All that needs to be done nowA multiwork project. [Cost: 3 actions] Due in 2 Turns. 3 Actions
-[ ] [Simple] The Underway: Otrek is in less of a rush to complete this. The Holds of the North are not waylaid by enemies and are aware that with the way the weather's been, an Underway route is the only reliable way for them to stay connected. [Cost: variable normal and apprentice actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Progress per action, 1 progress per apprentice action. 21 out of 30 Progress. 7 progress a turn regardless of input. 1 action
-[ ] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 1: You've gazed upon the face of the Ancestors a lot in the past few years, especially when you were making your alchemical flame spitters, and it's inspired you. A banner to rally behind, something that dwarfs will look to and fight all the harder with it at their back. A banner worthy of the hold of Kraka Drakk to be held aloft with pride by an equally worthy standard bearer. [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. 1 Action
- [ ] Choose: Master Rune of Grungni, Rune of Sanctuary, Rune of Warding
 
BungieONI said:
That's fine. In my mind it's going to be post turn 18 that we're going to be able to make the Armors at all, and I want Otrek and Gloin to be as well protected as possible until we can make the Armors and 1.5 actions on each item of the Dowry doesn't sound like enough to hit diminishing returns. Largely because if we were making a cloak by itself, overflowing it by one action wouldn't reasonably be expected to hit diminishing returns.
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Can we afford to wait that long on the armor? The Great Chaos Incursion is happening right now, after all. Sure, we'd only be able to give one of them the Adamant treatment at most (I do want to give one of them the Adamant treatment), but considering this is the Big One, they'll need all the protection they can get before it really hits the fan.

Plus, even the Cloaks won't actually be given to Otrek and Gloin until the end of Turn 18 when they're presented as gifts.
 
[] Plan: The Gift Giver
-[ ] Helter Smelter: You're sure there's a way to more efficiently produce more Adamant, but as it is you can create at least one more smelter to increase your overall throughput. Having one work while the other recharges for instance. You can at least make one or two more before you start feeling as if you're running afoul of the Rule of Pride. [Cost: 3 actions, 1 Voidstone] Productivity Like No Other will proc. +1 Bar of Adamant every Turn instead of every other Turn. (Will count the turn it was done on) Overflow will only add progress to the next smelter and cost another Voidstone. 2 Actions

-[ ] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: Two cloaks and an amulet to be ready for the wedding of Prince Durabarr Stonehammer and Princess Orra Ironarm. All that needs to be done nowA multiwork project. [Cost: 3 actions] Due in 2 Turns. 1 Action
-[ ] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 1: You've gazed upon the face of the Ancestors a lot in the past few years, especially when you were making your alchemical flame spitters, and it's inspired you. A banner to rally behind, something that dwarfs will look to and fight all the harder with it at their back. A banner worthy of the hold of Kraka Drakk to be held aloft with pride by an equally worthy standard bearer. [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. 1 action
-[] Master Rune of Grimnir, Rune of Valaya, Rune of Spellbreaking
-[ ] [Simple] The Underway: Otrek is in less of a rush to complete this. The Holds of the North are not waylaid by enemies and are aware that with the way the weather's been, an Underway route is the only reliable way for them to stay connected. [Cost: variable normal and apprentice actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Progress per action, 1 progress per apprentice action. 21 out of 30 Progress. 7 progress a turn regardless of input. 1 action

i like this plan the best so far
 
Chimeraguard said:
Thoughts for how Snorri might talk about the Gryphons:
-While we've known them only for a short time, they haven't shown themselves to be untrustworthy.
-When Brokk and Snorri first encountered one, said Gryphon specifically only attacked the trolls, and not them, so even when neither side had any real clue what the other was like, there wasn't any outright hostility.
-A gryphon saved Dolgi's life. That's a really big thing for me, and goes a long way for my approval. And apparently Dolgi's even been talking to that specific gryphon.
-The argument could be made that all of those acts were enlightened self-interest (hunting trolls to empower themselves, not hunting Dwarfs because they don't gain anything and have to get into another fight and risk dying), but even with that, Dwarfs who would have died are still alive because of their actions.
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Chimeraguard said:
Well, keep in mind, we're not trying to convince Whitebeard of this. This is to show what kind of Dwarf we are, what Snorri Klausson thinks about this whole thing, and as such, a look into his mindset in general.

Do we want him to be a full-scale pragmatist, focused on "They're useful, and having them with us will help my Hold and our People"?
Do we want one of his main points to be "They saved the life of one of my Apprentices."?
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BungieONI said:
Simple and straightforward. I am not really seeing or feeling much impetus for commenting on their military abilities in comparison to dwarfs, it's pretty obvious if you give it thought and I also don't really want to have Snorri focused on that since in my mind he cares a lot about those closest to him and other dwarfs and his craft being used well.
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Good point, I like this. It's both true and something that aims at answering as to what kind of Dwarf Klausson is. He cares about people, he cares about his craft. And is willing to extend some cautious trust.

Also Snorri probably hates Greedy Trolls. That might be a characteristic to establish perhaps? While it'd be another "Yes of course this's obvious" thing like the military, the difference would be that this would be establishing something about Snorri; namely, "I hate those damn Greedy Trolls."
Chimeraguard said:
-A gryphon saved Dolgi's life. That's a really big thing for me, and goes a long way for my approval. And apparently Dolgi's even been talking to that specific gryphon.
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Especially mentioning this too.
 
Chimeraguard said:
Can we afford to wait that long on the armor? The Great Chaos Incursion is happening right now, after all. Sure, we'd only be able to give one of them the Adamant treatment at most (I do want to give one of them the Adamant treatment), but considering this is the Big One, they'll need all the protection they can get before it really hits the fan.

Plus, even the Cloaks won't actually be given to Otrek and Gloin until the end of Turn 18 when they're presented as gifts.
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If we create an additional smelter, we could make one fully of Adamant (the King's) and make the Prince's with a single bar to empower the runes beyond what Gromril traditionally gives

@Garlak
To both of you, regarding the response: Should we think about the fact that we all WANT to take the King of the Sky up on his offer of a deal?
 
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Walliseatscheese said:
[] Plan: It's My Adamant And I Need It Now
-[ ] Helter Smelter: You're sure there's a way to more efficiently produce more Adamant, but as it is you can create at least one more smelter to increase your overall throughput. Having one work while the other recharges for instance. You can at least make one or two more before you start feeling as if you're running afoul of the Rule of Pride. [Cost: 3 actions, 1 Voidstone] Productivity Like No Other will proc. +1 Bar of Adamant every Turn instead of every other Turn. (Will count the turn it was done on) Overflow will only add progress to the next smelter and cost another Voidstone. 2 Actions
--[ ] Use the Greedy Heart
-[ ] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: Two cloaks and an amulet to be ready for the wedding of Prince Durabarr Stonehammer and Princess Orra Ironarm. All that needs to be done nowA multiwork project. [Cost: 3 actions] Due in 2 Turns. 1 Action
-[ ] Voidstones: You have four shards of the material left. You aren't sure what it is, or if there's even more of it out there in the world, getting gobbled up by other Runelords inconspicuously. You'll have to do a bit of investigation as well as your more normal battery of tests. [Cost: 5 actions] Student of the Odd will proc. 1 action
-[ ] [Simple] The Underway: Otrek is in less of a rush to complete this. The Holds of the North are not waylaid by enemies and are aware that with the way the weather's been, an Underway route is the only reliable way for them to stay connected. [Cost: variable normal and apprentice actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Progress per action, 1 progress per apprentice action. 21 out of 30 Progress. 7 progress a turn regardless of input. 1 action

So this is @EVA-Saiyajin 's plan with the sole exception that we use the Greedy Heart to massively increase Adamant production to better let us spread its benefits sooner.

It is my personal opinion that however much additional Adamant this will give us will be worth it.
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If we go with this plan I would say it would be better to put more focus on making the smelter and cut actions this turn like the dowry and research. We've seen that if Snorri spends more time on a project he'll put more of his heart into it, and using our only t5 material, I feel it would be a sad showing to put so little effort into it and not go all out like we did with Troll Slayer. IMO I would vote for crafting this, but I'd also see the wisdom in finishing out other research options before attempting something like this, as we could simply make a better one later but our Pride would prevent us from doing so, like the new Smelters being made out of Adamant themselves, or the firestone research making them more efficient.
 
BungieONI said:
Personally I agree with this pretty much. My thoughts on the write in are:


[] Write in:
-[] They have not killed or harmed any dwarves, and they saved the life of my apprentice. (Shows Snorri is a dwarf who cares about dwarf lives in particular)
-[] They need more time and testing, but what has been revealed so far shows they have enough reliability to not bungle using my craft. (Shows he cares about his craft) (Not really happy with this one)
-[] They hunt trolls and other dark things, which is a mark of good sense. (Shows he puts special attention on what has been done so far)

Simple and straightforward. I am not really seeing or feeling much impetus for commenting on their military abilities in comparison to dwarfs, it's pretty obvious if you give it thought and I also don't really want to have Snorri focused on that since in my mind he cares a lot about those closest to him and other dwarfs and his craft being used well.
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Was there supposed to a speech name after the write in, or is supposed to be blank for all of them?
 
If we can use relatively small amounts of adamant to make the runes work better on mostly non-adamant works, why don't we make the new adamant-forging smelter with a bar or two of adamant to boost its adamant making efficiency?
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
@Garlak
To both of you, regarding the response: Should we think about the fact that we all WANT to take the King of the Sky up on his offer of a deal?
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Huh, good question. I mean I want to make the Sky King armor of course. At minimum, wanting OOC. (The possibility of Chaos killing off, or corrupting, these Griffons annoys and worries me. And the Sky King dying, in the upcoming Chaos Incursion, if he doesn't have our armor also needles at me.) (What actually gets to me is that we can't start on the armor until/unless we ask for the favor first. And we have way too many Reagents as is, I feel guilty about having so many, so I don't think I'd want to ask for more of them. Which means I feel like we're stuck until a random event crops up that would make it feel narratively appropriate to ask for a favor.) As for wanting it IC... (i.e. do I want Snorri to want to make the armor?) hmm... I suppose yes, I think.

Snorri is an oddball. He'd probably be interested in seeing if he could make armor for a non-standard body shape. It'd probably be an intriguing idea or challenge.
 
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soulcake said:
The Whitebeard nods.

"Very well then," the Griffon says before plunging his talon into his chest to the surprise of three of the assembled dwarfs.

You will admit you didn't expect that.

It takes a moment or two, the King of the Skies showing not even a hint of discomfort as it tears out its still-beating heart, lightning crackling along its surface, with its talon and offers it to the Whitebeard.

"Should my scions betray you and yours, destroy my Heart, freely given, and slake your vengeance."
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Is anyone else getting Dragonheart vibes from this? Because while it's not exactly the same, that's what this is making me think of.
 
Chimeraguard said:
Can we afford to wait that long on the armor? The Great Chaos Incursion is happening right now, after all. Sure, we'd only be able to give one of them the Adamant treatment at most (I do want to give one of them the Adamant treatment), but considering this is the Big One, they'll need all the protection they can get before it really hits the fan.

Plus, even the Cloaks won't actually be given to Otrek and Gloin until the end of Turn 18 when they're presented as gifts.
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This is somewhat a consequence of mechanics but mechanically there is no way to deliver a request "in progress" and if we tried we'd just finish it with less actions into it.

But you're right about the cloaks.
 
Garlak said:
@soulcake is there anything we can even use Obsidian on? None of the Runes on our list use it, so... Since we ordered it by accident, assuming that our research needed it, can we use it up when we take the Voidstone Research actions? (I know you said that Research won't require mats. So this'd be a onetime thing and only happening because we kind of made a mistake on orders.)
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You can use it on something if not for a Rune then as decoration like with the Dragonhide. Or just leave it or idk, pawn it off?
Dormin said:
@soulcake I figured I'd ask, but can we burn favor to request Adamant bars currently?
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No.
 
Personally I feel like using the troll heart on the smelter is a bit of a waste, at the very least we should use it to make a talisman or banner.
 
Hm, well, was busy earlier, but good update. Gotta respect the Sky King for going as far as he did. Fella's got a big set of cojones.

maplejvl said:
Personally I feel like using the troll heart on the smelter is a bit of a waste, at the very least we should use it to make a talisman or banner.
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I dunno, think we'd stand to gain a lot, if it works out. Adamant's somewhat vital to further construction of masterworks on our part, so as nice as getting a great one time use for an artifact out of it would be, upping our Adamant production early on seems like it'll hold more benefits, in the long run.
 
TheDuke said:
Hm, well, was busy earlier, but good update. Gotta respect the Sky King for going as far as he did. Fella's got a big set of cojones.


I dunno, think we'd stand to gain a lot, if it works out. Adamant's somewhat vital to further construction of masterworks on our part, so as nice as getting a great one time use for an artifact out of it would be, upping our Adamant production early on seems like it'll hold more benefits, in the long run.
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Not to mention, even if the Heart itself is hardly replaceable, working with it on this project might at the very least give us some insight into how to partially replicate it's effects for other smelters we built with lesser Greedy Troll hearts and the like. We can never have enough Adamant, really.
 
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[X] Plan: The Gift Giver
-[X] Helter Smelter: You're sure there's a way to more efficiently produce more Adamant, but as it is you can create at least one more smelter to increase your overall throughput. Having one work while the other recharges for instance. You can at least make one or two more before you start feeling as if you're running afoul of the Rule of Pride. [Cost: 3 actions, 1 Voidstone] Productivity Like No Other will proc. +1 Bar of Adamant every Turn instead of every other Turn. (Will count the turn it was done on) Overflow will only add progress to the next smelter and cost another Voidstone. 2 Actions

-[X] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: Two cloaks and an amulet to be ready for the wedding of Prince Durabarr Stonehammer and Princess Orra Ironarm. All that needs to be done nowA multiwork project. [Cost: 3 actions] Due in 2 Turns. 1 Action
-[X] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 1: You've gazed upon the face of the Ancestors a lot in the past few years, especially when you were making your alchemical flame spitters, and it's inspired you. A banner to rally behind, something that dwarfs will look to and fight all the harder with it at their back. A banner worthy of the hold of Kraka Drakk to be held aloft with pride by an equally worthy standard bearer. [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. 1 action
-[X] Master Rune of Grungni, Rune of Valaya, Rune of Spellbreaking
-[X] [Simple] The Underway: Otrek is in less of a rush to complete this. The Holds of the North are not waylaid by enemies and are aware that with the way the weather's been, an Underway route is the only reliable way for them to stay connected. [Cost: variable normal and apprentice actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Progress per action, 1 progress per apprentice action. 21 out of 30 Progress. 7 progress a turn regardless of input. 1 action

[X] Plan: The Gift GiVALAYAer
-[X] Helter Smelter: You're sure there's a way to more efficiently produce more Adamant, but as it is you can create at least one more smelter to increase your overall throughput. Having one work while the other recharges for instance. You can at least make one or two more before you start feeling as if you're running afoul of the Rule of Pride. [Cost: 3 actions, 1 Voidstone] Productivity Like No Other will proc. +1 Bar of Adamant every Turn instead of every other Turn. (Will count the turn it was done on) Overflow will only add progress to the next smelter and cost another Voidstone. 2 Actions
-[X] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: Two cloaks and an amulet to be ready for the wedding of Prince Durabarr Stonehammer and Princess Orra Ironarm. All that needs to be done nowA multiwork project. [Cost: 3 actions] Due in 2 Turns. 1 Action
-[X] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 1: You've gazed upon the face of the Ancestors a lot in the past few years, especially when you were making your alchemical flame spitters, and it's inspired you. A banner to rally behind, something that dwarfs will look to and fight all the harder with it at their back. A banner worthy of the hold of Kraka Drakk to be held aloft with pride by an equally worthy standard bearer. [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. 1 action
-[X] Master Rune of Valaya, Rune of Grungni, Rune of Spellbreaking
-[X] [Simple] The Underway: Otrek is in less of a rush to complete this. The Holds of the North are not waylaid by enemies and are aware that with the way the weather's been, an Underway route is the only reliable way for them to stay connected. [Cost: variable normal and apprentice actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Progress per action, 1 progress per apprentice action. 21 out of 30 Progress. 7 progress a turn regardless of input. 1 action

[X] Plan: Finish Underway, Dowry Pt. 2 and Helter Smelter

[X] Plan Set Them Up
-[X] Helter Smelter: You're sure there's a way to more efficiently produce more Adamant, but as it is you can create at least one more smelter to increase your overall throughput. Having one work while the other recharges for instance. You can at least make one or two more before you start feeling as if you're running afoul of the Rule of Pride. [Cost: 3 actions, 1 Voidstone] Productivity Like No Other will proc. +1 Bar of Adamant every Turn instead of every other Turn. (Will count the turn it was done on) Overflow will only add progress to the next smelter and cost another Voidstone. 2 Actions
-[X] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: Two cloaks and an amulet to be ready for the wedding of Prince Durabarr Stonehammer and Princess Orra Ironarm. All that needs to be done nowA multiwork project. [Cost: 3 actions] Due in 2 Turns. 1 Action
-[X] Voidstones: You have four shards of the material left. You aren't sure what it is, or if there's even more of it out there in the world, getting gobbled up by other Runelords inconspicuously. You'll have to do a bit of investigation as well as your more normal battery of tests. [Cost: 5 actions] Student of the Odd will proc. 1 action
-[X] [Simple] The Underway: Otrek is in less of a rush to complete this. The Holds of the North are not waylaid by enemies and are aware that with the way the weather's been, an Underway route is the only reliable way for them to stay connected. [Cost: variable normal and apprentice actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Progress per action, 1 progress per apprentice action. 21 out of 30 Progress. 7 progress a turn regardless of input. 1 action

I'll go for two actions on the Dowry next turn to finish it off with a bit of Overflow.

[X] Plan: The Productive Gift Giver


[X] Write in:
-[X] They have not harmed any dwarf even before we could communicate.
-[X] They have fought our common foes.
-[X] Most importantly, they have saved dwarf lives without any obligation, particularly that of my apprentice on his Journey.
-[X] They need time to be tested yet for any flaws, but they have thus far, been honorable and good neighbors. Good metal, but we know not if its iron or gromril.
 
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