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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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[X] [Stone:] Left

Kairos123 said:
I'd argue that we got a hint in the exchange about coddling those around us. While it was just Snorri's fears talking, it also could be a narrative hint towards the best combo. I think right sets us on the path of an ancestor, where we stand at the pinnacle of what a dwarf could be without limiting their potential by smothering them.
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It was OUR fear, the fear that everything we have devoted ourselves to is a false path and leads everyone who follows us to doom.

We can reject those fears. We need not turn back. They are a reflection of our own doubts, not a message from the ancestors written just for us.
 
ArcanaVitae said:
I mean respect where respect is do Vragni's sheer number of apprencitces is absurd and really impressive. Snorri's apprentices are better in my opinion given what they've pulled off and their abilities, but there's an element of protagonist bias to that.
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Yeah and lets also not hold the fact that the guy didn't have a once in a generation prodigy to teach against him.
I think its been said that Vragni is the better teacher between the two of them, simply because he does more of it because he has more students.

And Vragni has a lot of runes that we don't know so its defiantly plausible he's had a Dolgi or two of his own who passed runes back up the Master-Apprentice chain.

The fact is we only know one of Vragni's apprentices by name, which I have ironically forgotten. Theres no good way to highlight all that they're up too except if someone wants to omake it... Oh wait, there was that omake about the one apprentice who'd learnt the chainmaker combo or something so we know two names.
So I'd say theres more than an element of protagonist bias, its actually pretty significant conservation of narrative detail which prevents us from knowing.
 
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DragonParadox said:
A runelord is a king in the way Okri the brewer is a miner i.e. if everyone else who could do the job is dead or elsewhere.
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I disagree that's the meaning of that statement. I think it says that in some scenarios a Runelord takes on the same responsibility that a King does, not that there's a line of succession that a runelord is on somewhere far down the list.

ArcanaVitae said:
The moment of realization is killing him inside.
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I go back to my point earlier that what should really be killing Snorri isn't that he didn't teach Karstah as well as he would his own child, but that he didn't teach any of his apprentices as well as he should, as Karstah, when she as an apprentice, was due no more and no less attention than any other apprentice.

This is another case of poor Nain, who because he isn't a daughter-u falls out of consideration.
 
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Alratan said:
I disagree that's the meaning of that statement. I think it says that in some scenarios a Runelord takes in the same responsibility that a King does, not that there's a line of succession that a runelord is on somewhere far down the list.
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I do not think they are far down the list in absolute terms, they do have lord in the title, but in relative terms, if the local runelord is the closest thing to a king you have you've gotten a lot of attrition.
 
[X] [Stone:] Right

I think there is some room for debate here, but we are now at the point where the combo is restricting our choices and for the combo Right is best. Particularly since we have formed a single target Combo, as Lagg pointed out. Alectai also convinced me that Right is best given his post here.

Alectai said:
No, I think it's right in this case, and I'll tell you why. "What is a Dawi". They're one that Resists, Overcomes, and Endures.

Stone erodes over time, this can't be helped, but a strong foundation ensures that the change in shape doesn't cause the entire edifice to crumble. That the Stone Endures even if it may be carved into different shapes and different forms over time.

As long as the Will remains, the Stone will survive, and it plays well with the rest of the Combo being put together as well. "What doesn't break you in the first blow will struggle to do so over time." "You cannot be turned against your nature without a fight" and "As long as your will holds, you will endure all trials."

It feels like a coherent narrative to define "What is a Dawi". There may have been other viable Combos, but this feels like the natural conclusion to this one.
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DragonParadox said:
I do not think they are far down the list in absolute terms, they do have lord in the title, but in relative terms, if the local runelord is the closest thing to a king you have you've gotten a lot of attrition.
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My view is that this isn't about the line of succession at all, but that in some scenarios; specifically dealing with magical phenomena, the Runelord has supreme authority over the Hold, acting as the King would in other matters, whether or not there's a king present.
 
ArcanaVitae said:
Yeah that's very true, Dawi built things to last and to work under even the most stressful circumstances, they don't tolerate shoddy work. If the Guild could be ruined by one Dawi no matter how notable it was a failure in the first place.
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Not to mention Snorri has seen the great Achilles Heel of the Runesmiths as demonstrated in canon: a disaster big and bad enough to wipe out a large swath of Runelords and Masters would permanently and nigh-irreversably cripple Dawi Runelore.

No one's addressed it before because the idea of the wise elders just not... being there anymore is inconceivable - but the visceral experiences of being the sole Far North Runelord to survive the Great Incursion and the Karag Dum campaign means Snorri can conceive it.

Do you expect a Dawi to not fix the flaws in something he's discovered? To steal from ArcanaVitae, if the Guild could be ruined by an attempt to tackle newly-uncovered structural issues, then it was a failure from the beginning.
 
MrRageQuit said:
Not to mention Snorri has seen the great Achilles Heel of the Runesmiths as demonstrated in canon: a disaster big and bad enough to wipe out a large swath of Runelords and Masters would permanently and nigh-irreversably cripple Dawi Runelore.

No one's addressed it before because the idea of the wise elders just not... being there anymore is inconceivable - but the visceral experiences of being the sole Far North Runelord to survive the Great Incursion and the Karag Dum campaign means Snorri can conceive it.

Do you expect a Dawi to not fix the flaws in something he's discovered? To steal from ArcanaVitae, if the Guild could be ruined by an attempt to tackle newly-uncovered structural issues, then it was a failure from the beginning.
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Snorri was able to understand it due to all the other Far North Runelords getting wiped out, and that's the IC reason for it. I imagine the Ancestors leaving just reinforced that for him and other Dawi.
 
MrRageQuit said:
Not to mention Snorri has seen the great Achilles Heel of the Runesmiths as demonstrated in canon: a disaster big and bad enough to wipe out a large swath of Runelords and Masters would permanently and nigh-irreversably cripple Dawi Runelore.

No one's addressed it before because the idea of the wise elders just not... being there anymore is inconceivable - but the visceral experiences of being the sole Far North Runelord to survive the Great Incursion and the Karag Dum campaign means Snorri can conceive it.

Do you expect a Dawi to not fix the flaws in something he's discovered? To steal from ArcanaVitae, if the Guild could be ruined by an attempt to tackle newly-uncovered structural issues, then it was a failure from the beginning.
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It's wild that even with Snorri triggering the arms race, it still wouldn't enough to avert the canonical disaster if it happened the same way. Brynduraz and Izril canonically go down in the Time of Woes which would 2 of the 4 major runesmithing wonders. Drakk and Ornsmotek were long since cutoff so there goes Khaz and the Citadel. Dron goes down to a dragon and takes the brotherhood with it leaving just KaK and the Burudin there who probably get decimated in the war of the beard and that's it for the guild.

Now obviously canon is long since derailed but all the measures taken so far to prevent knowledge losses are all in places that canonically have a bad time.
 
[X] [Stone:] Right
[Improves general toughness. Wearer's endurance and durability increase proportionately to their willpower]
 
I honestly think the first vision is about how Karstah is considered by Dawi society, by his own clan and ultimately by his own admission: his Daughter, adopted or not doesn't matter, and the vision shows him what falsehood he has in his life and this is one of the bigger ones.

He knows she ses (saw?) Him as her father figure and that he was expected to act like it but he couldn't simply because he fooled himself that he could only ever have become a father if it was with Her...

Now that the vision has so brutaly showed him how he failed... well the dam I broken and it will start to pour out.
 
[X] [Stone:] Right
[Improves general toughness. Wearer's endurance and durability increase proportionately to their willpower]
 
HOKKIS said:
I honestly think the first vision is about how Karstah is considered by Dawi society, by his own clan and ultimately by his own admission: his Daughter, adopted or not doesn't matter, and the vision shows him what falsehood he has in his life and this is one of the bigger ones.

He knows she ses (saw?) Him as her father figure and that he was expected to act like it but he couldn't simply because he fooled himself that he could only ever have become a father if it was with Her...

Now that the vision has so brutaly showed him how he failed... well the dam I broken and it will start to pour out.
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Yeah, though its very worth remembering that what he saw there with Karstah is worse than what actually happened.

He absolutely has mucked up their relationship, but since he realized he did he's tried to fix it.
 
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