RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

[soulcake]

A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

 

[SuperSonicSound]

I think we should to some degree not get pulled in a thousand different directions. Our actions should outside of nessecity revolve around a shared theme so that everything we do has some kind of synergy with its self other wise we risk essentially wasting tonnes of time going skin deep in a large number of areas.

 

[BungieONI]

I think we should to some degree not get pulled in a thousand different directions. Our actions should outside of nessecity revolve around a shared theme so that everything we do has some kind of synergy with its self other wise we risk essentially wasting tonnes of time going skin deep in a large number of areas.

Click to shrink...

That doesn't really relate to the crown at all, since its intent is to assist Otrek, recipient of our first Legendary creation.

 

[jjffjhjf]

Hmm. So for the Crown of Kraka Drakk.

The Master Rune of Grungni does this: The winds of magic are taken absorbed and made into an array that blocks physical projectiles.
That's new but w/e, the important part is that Grungni is The King. That's his role in the Dwarf pantheon. This has role sympathy with Otrek's social role, and the office which the Crown would denote. It gives protection from threats afar, that's its purpose.

Otrek was also the eldest Thane of the Hold, the eldest and most experienced warrior. He is a Warrior King, though not a Conquering King.

Therefore people coming up with ideas to use the Rune of Grimnir are onto something I think.

So! We want the Crown to commemorate the battle that eventually lead to his coronation, his coronation, and his connection to Clan Ironarm and through them his ancestors.

Thusly I think these Runes work: Master Rune of Grungni because Grungni is The King and to protect him from threats afar, the Rune of Grimnir to connect back to the ancestry of Clan Ironarm our Royal Clan, and the Rune of Stocicism a simple Banner Rune that has this fluff:
This rune reminds every Dwarf that, though their numbers are diminished, each one of them carries the legacy of his ancestors, and thus is never alone

The diminished part doesn't matter, it wouldn't exist now, but the important part is reminding the Kings of Kraka Drakk of their ancestors. Grungni The King, Grimnir the Warrior, and in time all the Kings of Kraka Drakk before them.

Make it out of our first Adamant Bar, Pure Gromril, Silver Wutroth and Firestone (it will keep his head warm).


It'd be an Ancestor Rune, so it can go on anything. Natively I expect it to be a Weapon Rune.


Mah bad.

Click to shrink...

I'm thinking it may be a good idea to go through all of yorri's things before finalizing the crown. if each of them gives some kind item, it'd be pretty cool to have the Crown of Kraka Drak to be made of unique things from the hold.

 

[BungieONI]

I'm thinking it may be a good idea to go through all of yorri's things before finalizing the crown. if each of them gives some kind item, it'd be pretty cool to have the Crown of Kraka Drak to be made of unique things from the hold.

Click to shrink...

Not a bad idea! We also have time, its not like the acts and events its commemorating are going to un-happen themselves.

 

[tri2]

collect all yorri stuff, decide what to research use research to make a masterpiece

 

[UlseDovThur]

collect all yorri stuff, decide what to research use research to make a masterpiece

Click to shrink...

This. The sooner we uncover and claim the resources in these locations the sooner we can exploit them and the more we can get out of them. The Silver Wuroth trees alone brought a lot of Dwarves to Krakka Drakk.

Honestly I'm thinking it might be better to do two turns of nothing but Odd Places, we've done 2/10 and with 4 actions a turn we can finish it in exactly two turns, and just knock them all out before we finish the under way. That way once we establish reliable connection to the rest of dwarfdom we can have a lot more reasons for people to move to Krakka Drakk and get a massive boost in reputation.

 

[Alratan]

Went digging through my WFRP books again and I found where I got it from: Tome of Corruption page 138.

I was also a little off. They lived in the Forest of Shadows, so Ostland in the modern empire, up until the Teutogens and other tribes got together and kicked the Norsii tribal group out and pushed them east into conflict with the Udoses (The tribe Freddy descends from), and the Ungols of Kislev. Peace happened for a while, but Norsii trickled north. Then when Sigmar popped up and banded tribes together, the remaining Norsii groups did not bend then knee and fled north along with disaffected members of other tribes. They conflicted with the Ungols and then were pushed even further North to Norsca.

This obviously took quite a bit of time on a historical scale.

Click to shrink...

I'll have to check the sources, but as I recall, the Norsii appeared in Norsca around the same time that the tribes that would become the Empire and Bretonnia occupied those parts of the Old World, circa -1,000 IC. They were already Khornate at that point. At some later point they later invaded the lands of the pre-Imperial tribes, driving them south and occupying the northern region of what would become the Empire. As these were all nomadic pastoralists, borders would have been fluid, and this state of affairs persisted until Sigmar defeated them and drove them all back to Norsca, where they displaced the resident beastmen. What the Empire's historians describe in Tome of Salvation is the later parts of this.

Could potentially invent it. But that would probably be like a 50-60 action investment on the low end. Could be a real game changer though.

Would definetly net us a ridiculous amount of status and requests. Especially if we spread it to every Thane like it became in Cannon just millenia earlier. Could have a lot of knock on effects too.

Image if we made it before the Ancestors faded and Grungni wore the High Kings one for a bit. Even if a fraction of a fraction of that wisdom got stored it would be a T5 item.

Click to shrink...

Ironically the best way to prevent the War of Vengeance might be for Snorri to lean into being the Gift Giver and make make Malkieth a crown that's good enough that he isn't interested in the Iron Circlet.

 

[BungieONI]

I'll have to check the sources, but as I recall, the Norsii appeared in Norsca around the same time that the tribes that would become the Empire and Bretonnia occupied those part old the Old World, circa -1,000 IC. They were already Khornate at that point. At some later point they later invaded the lands of the pre-Imperial tribes, driving them south and occupying the northern region of what would become the Empire. As these were all nomadic pastoralists, borders would have been fluid, and this state of affairs persisted until Sigmar defeated them and drove them all back to Norsca, where they displaced the resident beastmen.

Click to shrink...

Welp, the Tome of Corruption says they were just there. No invasions, nada, and its basically the only source I can find which actually goes into any appreciable detail about Norscan society.

It's not in the eighth edition army book either.

E: They probably migrated up from the south Reik basin or down from the north in Kislev and are of Ungol descent, but either way nothing I've read speaks to where they come from except Tome of Corruption.

 

[Copperscale]

If they're there already, we'd probably know about them already. Marauding tribes are hard to miss if your trade routes go overland.

 

[BungieONI]

If they're there already, we'd probably know about them already. Marauding tribes are hard to miss if your trade routes go overland.

Click to shrink...

Quite. The issues are monsters and avalanches and stuff in that vein from what the updates have talked about.

Honestly I'm thinking it might be better to do two turns of nothing but Odd Places, we've done 2/10 and with 4 actions a turn we can finish it in exactly two turns, and just knock them all out before we finish the under way. That way once we establish reliable connection to the rest of dwarfdom we can have a lot more reasons for people to move to Krakka Drakk and get a massive boost in reputation.

Click to shrink...

When the discovery happens doesn't honestly matter too much, just the connection since that's going to be our main way of transferring news.

 

[Alratan]

Welp, the Tome of Corruption says they were just there. No invasions, nada, and its basically the only source I can find which actually goes into any appreciable detail about Norscan society.

It's not in the eighth edition army book either.

E: They probably migrated up from the south Reik basin or down from the north in Kislev and are of Ungol descent, but either way nothing I've read speaks to where they come from except Tome of Corruption.

Click to shrink...

I'll keep looking. I did find this interesting titbit though, 'Some 4,000 years before the birth of Sigmar, the Dwarfs were still experimenting with Rune Magic, and some of their kind pushed the boundaries of their craft too far. Though bound through ties of kinship, this led to great strife and arguing amongst the Dwarfs. Thinking to harness the greater magical energy found in the north near the Chaos Wastes, many of these Dwarfs moved into the northern reaches of the World's Edge Mountains until they came to Zorn Uzkul, the Great Skull Land. Fearing this bleak place, many Dwarfs retreated back the way they came or travelled further north into Norsca to found new holds, whilst the rest remained in the Dark Lands. Those who went north founded Kraka Drak (Dragon Hold) in a mountain rich with veins of iron and precious metals'

I wonder if that applies here.

 

[BungieONI]

I'll keep looking. I did find this interesting titbit though, 'Some 4,000 years before the birth of Sigmar, the Dwarfs were still experimenting with Rune Magic, and some of their kind pushed the boundaries of their craft too far. Though bound through ties of kinship, this led to great strife and arguing amongst the Dwarfs. Thinking to harness the greater magical energy found in the north near the Chaos Wastes, many of these Dwarfs moved into the northern reaches of the World's Edge Mountains until they came to Zorn Uzkul, the Great Skull Land. Fearing this bleak place, many Dwarfs retreated back the way they came or travelled further north into Norsca to found new holds, whilst the rest remained in the Dark Lands. Those who went north founded Kraka Drak (Dragon Hold) in a mountain rich with veins of iron and precious metals'

I wonder if that applies here.

Click to shrink...

If we go back to the character creation, there's no real mention of runesmith internal strife driving the settling of Kraka Drakk or even any connection to the Zorn Uzkul at all. Where did you get that quote?

[X]Home: Kraka Drakk.
The winter chill gives you another in the long list of reasons you're thankful for your beard and the runic enchantments on your clothes to keep you warm. Around you, dwarfs bustle about with purpose and dignity, following the traditional steps in which a hold is founded according to Valaya, a rather barebones town on the surface is where most of you are holed up until the main halls are built. Many of the families here are young by the standards for your people, only fullbeards really, with enough elders to keep everything proper and make sure things are done right. Many of the older runesmiths, your fellow Runelords included, who were part of the initial convoy have continued on further north. You've volunteered to stay here and keep an eye on things with plans to join your fellows up north in a century or two. Couldn't be having these youngin's bumbling about without proper guidance, a three-hundred-year-old in charge of anything outside his workshop was poppycock. Really, you're one of the oldest dwarfs in the entire settlement now, and with that comes a level of responsibility any self-respecting dwarf would shoulder for the sake of their people. You suppose it should settle down in a century or two when you get more longbeards coming up to knock some sense into these beardlings, but for the time being, you'll likely have far more work than even YOU can handle at once, and that says a lot. (Gain; The Dragon Hold, the potential future capital of the Norse dwarfs, right now it's a hovel of a town built at the site where a great Frost Wyrm was slain. Magic blows strongly compared to the south, but you're not likely to do anything to harness it while the hold is in its current state. Work is plentiful and material in short supply.)

Click to shrink...

So it shouldn't apply here given complete lack of any mention to it.

 

[Weirdo]

The human tribes may become relevant because even if Norscan ones don't migrate yet I think people migrate to the northern Kislev area a bit faster than they do the Norsca area, which is close to what will become Troll Country, which I think we are in, so I think we may contact some humans sooner or later. So we might get into contact with the Ungols (I think that's what they are called) and I like that because, beside it being nice to have contact with a militaristic human society to maybe use as meatshields, I think the Ungols are Cavalrymen, which is one of the few things Dwarves don't have, so I'd definitely support a diplo or gift action to some Ungol tribe we want to put on top just to get access to their cavalry, it would be nice to act as good shock troopers and get good relations with them early.

Otherwise, some possible non Dwarven allies we could get include the Ogres, who aren't in the mountains of Mourne and aren't worshipping the Great Maw yet, and they are in the central plains before the maw grabs them, so they would be nice as larger muscle to support our lines, they'd act like bigger, stronger, dimmer Dwarves, also would be nice to get some non maw Ogres early. Otherwise I don't know of any other possible allies in the old world (and I know nothing of the new world)

 

[Alratan]

If we go back to the character creation, there's no real mention of runesmith internal strife driving the settling of Kraka Drakk or even any connection to the Zorn Uzkul at all. Where did you get that quote?

Click to shrink...

Tome of Corruption, page 142. It could be the kind of argument that's kept intensely private until it leask our years later. It would explain what a bunch of Runelords were doing heading north though.

I found the reference to the Norsii being in Norsca in -1,012 IC in Tome of Salvation, on page 7-8. The Norse Dwarf Chronicles record encountering the Norsii, amongst other tribes. However, we know that the Norse Dwarves were confined to Norsca at this time, as if they were active in what is now Kislev they'd have been in contact with Karak Vlag, which is basically right there.

The human tribes may become relevant because even if Norscan ones don't migrate yet I think people migrate to the northern Kislev area a bit faster than they do the Norsca area, which is close to what will become Troll Country, which I think we are in, so I think we may contact some humans sooner or later. So we might get into contact with the Ungols (I think that's what they are called) and I like that because, beside it being nice to have contact with a militaristic human society to maybe use as meatshields, I think the Ungols are Cavalrymen, which is one of the few things Dwarves don't have, so I'd definitely support a diplo or gift action to some Ungol tribe we want to put on top just to get access to their cavalry, it would be nice to act as good shock troopers and get good relations with them early.

Click to shrink...

The Ungols and the Norsii were apparently part of the same wave of migration, probably through the High Pass, as Gospodorian history suggests that they were once neighbours with the Norsii and Kurgan on the High Steppe.

 

[fictionfan]

I wonder how involved we will become in the human uplift project?

 

[Alratan]

I wonder how involved we will become in the human uplift project?

Click to shrink...

Guild secrets are a big deal. It took Sigmar doing a set of seriously legendary deeds to get them to uplift the Empire. I also don't think there are humans in the Old World yet.

 

[fictionfan]

Guild secrets are a big deal. It took Sigmar doing a set of seriously legendary deeds to get them to uplift the Empire. I also don't think there are humans in the Old World yet.

Click to shrink...

Yes the human uplift project was a big deal I wonder if the Giftgiver will be involved.

 

[Alratan]

Picking up something from before, rather than Snorri inventing the Master Rune of Kingship earlier, I think that Snerra might be a more likely candidate. She has an exceptional gift for talismanic runes on top of near legendary talent in general, and she's been taught in a hold whose King greatly respects and depends upon runesmiths under a master that will hopefully have dedicated significant amounts of time to improving the hold. To me, the Master Rune of Kingship is a logical outgrowth of that kind of

Yes the human uplift project was a big deal I wonder if the Giftgiver will be involved.

Click to shrink...

If we stay in contact with the Karaz Ankor, we might stop all those events from happening. Or we might not. It's a long time in the future.

 

[BungieONI]

The human tribes may become relevant because even if Norscan ones don't migrate yet I think people migrate to the northern Kislev area a bit faster than they do the Norsca area, which is close to what will become Troll Country, which I think we are in, so I think we may contact some humans sooner or later. So we might get into contact with the Ungols (I think that's what they are called) and I like that because, beside it being nice to have contact with a militaristic human society to maybe use as meatshields, I think the Ungols are Cavalrymen, which is one of the few things Dwarves don't have, so I'd definitely support a diplo or gift action to some Ungol tribe we want to put on top just to get access to their cavalry, it would be nice to act as good shock troopers and get good relations with them early.

Otherwise, some possible non Dwarven allies we could get include the Ogres, who aren't in the mountains of Mourne and aren't worshipping the Great Maw yet, and they are in the central plains before the maw grabs them, so they would be nice as larger muscle to support our lines, they'd act like bigger, stronger, dimmer Dwarves, also would be nice to get some non maw Ogres early. Otherwise I don't know of any other possible allies in the old world (and I know nothing of the new world)

Click to shrink...

So the Ungols are kind of curious in terms of origin. They're steppe nomads ala the Kurgan or Tong, though they live in Kislev its northeastern expanse. Their lifestyle and culture is essentially adapted to that cold steppe and tundra, and they are a horse raising people like you thought. But there's not a lot of indication as to where they came from before settling in that land. Nor does it really matter.

There's also some Roppsmen tribes in Troll Country. After the Gospodar migration and invasion, the Ungols move west and absorb the Roppsmen entirely. Fun thing to find out that I didn't know. Thought there weren't going to be any humans in Troll Country proper.

We are here:

Spoiler: Big Picture

Don't mind the one k in drak, I've seen multiple spellings and the Khazalid page uses two k's.

 

[Thomasfoolery]

Personally I'd like it if there was just no room for human migrants in Norsca, it would be pretty awesome if we managed to expand so dwarves were basically taking up all the carrying capacity of the land.

 

[BungieONI]

Personally I'd like it if there was just no room for human migrants in Norsca, it would be pretty awesome if we managed to expand so dwarves were basically taking up all the carrying capacity of the land.

Click to shrink...

There's no real reason for that to happen because they use different parts of the carrying capacity that are inaccessible to each other in large part. Underground farms, rivers, mountain homes, so on and so forth.

I mean the sentiment of "fuckloads of dwarves" is nice, but I don't think such a situation would ever really happen in a practical sense.

 

[Thomasfoolery]

There's no real reason for that to happen because they use different parts of the carrying capacity that are inaccessible to each other in large part. Underground farms, rivers, mountain homes, so on and so forth.

Click to shrink...

In Norsca it's basically just mountains and valleys aside from a few coastal areas. So it seems quite possible to me in terms of biome that the dwarves would pretty much make use of all of it if they had the numbers.

 

[Alratan]

So the Ungols are kind of curious in terms of origin. They're steppe nomads ala the Kurgan or Tong, though they live in Kislev its northeastern expanse. Their lifestyle and culture is essentially adapted to that cold steppe and tundra, and they are a horse raising people like you thought. But there's not a lot of indication as to where they came from before settling in that land. Nor does it really matter.

There's also some Roppsmen tribes in Troll Country. After the Gospodar migration and invasion, the Ungols move west and absorb the Roppsmen entirely. Fun thing to find out that I didn't know. Thought there weren't going to be any humans in Troll Country proper.

Click to shrink...

Well, the Gospodar history in Realms of the Ice Queen suggests that the Norsii and the Ungols came from the High Steppe before they did, and Tome of Salvation tells us that this would have been around -1,000 IC.

The reason this might matter eventually is that if we stay in contact with Karak Vlag it may remain stronger and so be capable of controlling the High Pass, and so may block passage of human migration, depending on what else is happening.

In Norsca it's basically just mountains and valleys aside from a few coastal areas. So it seems quite possible to me in terms of biome that the dwarves would pretty much make use of all of it if they had the numbers.

Click to shrink...

Particularly if the Norse dwarves develop a naval tradition at some point, as we'd be occupying the good harbours.

 

[BungieONI]

In Norsca it's basically just mountains and valleys aside from a few coastal areas. So it seems quite possible to me in terms of biome that the dwarves would pretty much make use of all of it if they had the numbers.

Click to shrink...

It's Scandinavia-shape, and at minimum about that big and quite possibly bigger because Warhammer isn't a perfect match. There is a Lot of space. Scandinavia is about 1.2 Million square kilometers if you include Iceland in IRL. And Dwarfs are inherently space-conservative due to vertical building habits.

They can use the coastal fjords and hills and floodplains and taiga, but that is a lot of surface area to make use of for farming and fishing since its basically Norway and Sweden and dwarfs don't do a lot of overland farming except for species of dwarf grasses and other similar things.

It would take a Enormous number of Dwarfs, which is why I say its impractical. Territorial claims are possible, but they'd only use a fraction of it for a very long time and there'd still be a load of room that is just wilderness not claimed by anyone.

 

[Weirdo]

So the Ungols are kind of curious in terms of origin. They're steppe nomads ala the Kurgan or Tong, though they live in Kislev its northeastern expanse. Their lifestyle and culture is essentially adapted to that cold steppe and tundra, and they are a horse raising people like you thought. But there's not a lot of indication as to where they came from before settling in that land. Nor does it really matter.

There's also some Roppsmen tribes in Troll Country. After the Gospodar migration and invasion, the Ungols move west and absorb the Roppsmen entirely. Fun thing to find out that I didn't know. Thought there weren't going to be any humans in Troll Country proper.

We are here:

Spoiler: Big Picture

Don't mind the one k in drak, I've seen multiple spellings and the Khazalid page uses two k's.

Click to shrink...

So, are the Roppsmen horse people as well? And when did the Roppsmen get there? I suddenly want to know many things about these people because that seems quite good, they would be hardened as a result of constant battle against the trolls, maybe better than the original TL as a result of the Greedy trolls, which mean they would have to fight even harder to survive.

Basically the most important questions are, in order of importance, when do they get there (are they there now)? Are they Cavalrymen? Who do they worship (are they Chaos? Is it nobody? If nobody we could convert them before chaos does)? And finally, how numerous are they (do they have enough to be an immediate large benefit or would it just be a hero unit we could get initially)