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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Depending on how things go, there may be no Norsemen. Humans only arrived in Norsca in -1,012 IC, and an awful lot of things can happen between now and then. Depending on how well we do, it could remain dwarven territory.
Eh, I figure best case it will be like the Empire. We keep the Norsemen from being corrupted or straighten them out if they already are. They live in the plains we live in the mountains. With the occasional weirdo living with the humans instead.
 
Eh, I figure best case it will be like the Empire. We keep the Norsemen from being corrupted or straighten them out if they already are. They live in the plains we live in the mountains. With the occasional weirdo living with the humans instead.

If you look at the maps of Norsca, there just aren't that many plains.

The Norscans were Khorne worshippers from early on, apparently. I'm not seeing that as easy to reform.
 
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Eh, I figure best case it will be like the Empire. We keep the Norsemen from being corrupted or straighten them out if they already are. They live in the plains we live in the mountains. With the occasional weirdo living with the humans instead.
Eh, its too far north for the Norsemen to be safe from corruption as a whole, but some tribes being given the right advantages could survive without being pancaked by Chaos on the clock.
 
Eh, its too far north for the Norsemen to be safe from corruption as a whole, but some tribes being given the right advantages could survive without being pancaked by Chaos on the clock.

I disagree, Norsica isn't far enough north to be part of the chaos wastes directly, it's inhospitable and certainly very dangerous to live in but it's almost certain that Norsica five thousand years later has less background magic than the region which would be become the empire does right now I would expect that all other things being equal that humanity could survive and thrive in norsica with out being corrupted as a matter of course.

No as in literal armies of demons marching through puts a damper on civilization efforts.

Armies of daemons don't march through Norsica as a matter of course post great vortex. They require actual daemon summoning attempts and not the trivial pre-vortex kinds.
 
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Will make a note that treating most/all of the Norsemen as chaos corrupted by default would be a great way to make enemies forever when we don't need to.

Just woke up, and suddenly had an idea and a mighty need to see it done:

Cloak. Of. Invisibility.

A cloak that bears runes that will hide the wearer. It's a classic! Right? I was thinking of Santa memes -- though he already has a wondrous cloak -- but come to think of it, the White Dwarf has a cloak that lets him blend in, so... It's double Santa memes? This one would be like Harry Potter's or Frodo's cloak though; meant to hide and sneak through, rather than be hidden in a crowd.

But the Master Rune of Disguise is an Engineering Rune, bah... ... Which does mean that suddenly I've had an idea for a Master Rune I want to put research into, though. (But those 16 actions look terrifyingly fearsome...)

On the other hand, that list of Runes mostly lists Master runes. It says we've got runes for every occasion, and that this is just a list of Master Runes and combo runes. Which means that it's possible we have Talismanic runes that hide stuff. (Just probably not a Master Rune.) Another thought was taking a look at the Talisman runes and noticing a Rune of Sound, I wondered whether it's possible to have a Rune that swallows up sound and makes things stealthy. We may or may not already know such a rune already, so.

Overall, I was thinking for some combo of "invisible" + "soundless" + "rune of passage" perhaps. Or 3 runes that all go into stealth, invisibility, and camouflage. For maximum "Invisibility Cloak!" memes.

Go anywhere, and be not noticed. A Ranger would love such a cloak.

(On that note: I also want to get a Rune of Being Real Quiet -- whether we already have it or not, or whether we'd have to come up with it -- and start putting it on boots, and hand them out to our rangers.)
(Somewhat related, somewhat totally unrelated... I wonder how the Rune of Reflection interacts with the Rune of Sound? According to the writeup, it says the Rune of Reflection was about concentrating light, not just reflecting any old thing. So either using the two together would let you control sound in some way... Or... or... You get two runes that let you concentrate light, and project sound in a certain direction.
Kind of like, say, a film projector. It just needs a 3rd rune to bring it all together and make it all work though. And I've no idea what that would be.)

EDIT:

I think I mentioned Cloth of (Oath)gold, some time back.

Not as crazy as Gromril or Adamant. But Oathgold is still the ingredient for the Master Rune of Grungni. Which felt like a pretty cool idea. Of course, that just means it might be more appropriate for a Banner that used the Master Rune of Grungni rather than other runes, but eh.

Cloth of Oathgold is just such an inherently cool idea. I want to use it in something!
We did a "make Snorri inconspicuous" thing with a Rune of Concealment, Rune of Silence, Rune of Lightstep on a bag he was carrying when he went to give toys to orphans in turn 4.

You quietly walk through the halls of the hold, a simple red cloak and a bulging sack that bears the Runes of Concealment, Lightstep and Silence. You're dressed more like a simple ranger than a Runelord ought to be, but despite all sense and logic you cannot help but conceal this little yearly excursion of yours.
We'd just need to adapt the Master Rune of Disguise into a Banner Rune and slap it onto a cloak/cape along with Rune of Silence and Rune of Lightstep. That'd actually be a great gift for Brokk, our head Ranger in Kraka Drakk come to think of it.

The thing with the Understand A Master Rune option, is that it is on the same time scale as Rune Metal part 2 and part 3 which took us from Turn 5 to Turn 12. Seven turns is how long it takes when we are not putting three actions into it every turn. That gets it done in 4 turns.
 
A bunch of well defended dwarf holds connected by the underway could be like stones in a river.
Yeah, what I envision is mostly the tribes around dwarf holds tend to weather the seasons of doom hordes coming through better since they draw most of the aggro and attention, which gives a bit more continuity.

I'm not sure what they could do to actually HOLD the place, agriculture is poor due to the climate, they'd find it hard to hit the population critical mass to wall off and hold a beachhead.
 
I disagree, Norsica isn't far enough north to be part of the chaos wastes directly, it's inhospitable and certainly very dangerous to live in but it's almost certain that Norsica five thousand years later has less background magic than the region which would be become the empire does right now I would expect that all other things being equal that humanity could survive and thrive in norsica with out being corrupted as a matter of course.
I believe OTL many of the Norscans were of the Norsii tribe driven out of the lower Old World by Sigmar and his Empire, yeah, already corrupted and driven into a place that only encouraged it.
 
Yeah, what I envision is mostly the tribes around dwarf holds tend to weather the seasons of doom hordes coming through better since they draw most of the aggro and attention, which gives a bit more continuity.

I'm not sure what they could do to actually HOLD the place, agriculture is poor due to the climate, they'd find it hard to hit the population critical mass to wall off and hold a beachhead.
Dwarfs are really good at underground farming. Or something I don't think that there is any example in all of canon of Dwarfs dying of starvation even when they have been under siege for hundreds of years.
 
I believe OTL many of the Norscans were of the Norsii tribe driven out of the lower Old World by Sigmar and his Empire, yeah, already corrupted and driven into a place that only encouraged it.
I've looked into this a good while back, both looking for material that acted as a refutation of some of the terrible takes Warhammer Fantasy has and as background for my Norscan quest (which is now on hold). The Norsii tribal group that got pushed north by the tribes who would become the Empire didn't worship the Chaos gods. A trickle of them going to Norsca basically started at that point. Then when Sigmar got kicking around they got pushed further back and ended up in Norsca entirely. Basically a series of migrations.

It was only after they'd settled in Norsca for multiple years that they started to fall to Chaos corruption, with the northerly most tribes having it the worst. The southernmost were actually mostly sensible and clear of Chaotic influence, if still culturally raiding assholes who believably could worship gods like Stromfels. Most of this comes from the WFRP 4 edition books. The army books are sadly not that useful except for providing a map of the place (which is still kind of shit).
 
No as in literal armies of demons marching through puts a damper on civilization efforts.
The waystones were built by the high elves to strengthen the effects of the Great Vortex when they colonized most of the old world after the first incursion. At the time, demons couldn't walk the old world as freely as they do now. Once the Vortex is built, there should be a lull in activity.

Hmm... i think we've already diverged from the Main timeline (my source could be mistaken), but Grimnir disappeared in the Chaos wastes around a century after the founding of Karaz-a-Karak. But he's still stomping down south and it's been about a century and a half since the founding.
So, probably, none of this is actually accurate, but my estimate is that we are at dwarf year ~200. Measured from the founding.

On the same timeline, Snorri Whitebeard becomes high king around year 400, and is still king 1200 years later. Ie. 1600 after founding.
The Sundering happens within 2-3 centuries of this, and the elves return to the old world within 3 centuries. Dwarf year 2200ish.
And then the War of the Beard/Vengeance within 2 centuries of that. Year ~2500
That lasts for 4 centuries. By imperial reckoning, -2000 to -1600. Dwarf year ~3000
Time of woes happens.
The norscan migration happens at -1000 IC, or 3500 dwarf calendar. I.e. During the time of Woes.

We've got a long time to go before Norscans become relevant. Without timeskips, I don't think it will likely become relevant.

Source: here
 
In the future we will look at the trollslayer and shudder at our extreme lack of skill as a breadling.
Personally, I really want to make a frost-themed counterpart to Trollslayer. And then I want to make a weapon with Master Rune of Flight, plus a Rune of Fire and a Rune of Frost, like somebody had suggested. It just sounded like such an amusing and cool idea you know? A whirlwind of fire and frost. Mwahaha.

Master Rune of Conduction/ (the future Master Rune of Kragg the Grim): The weapon heats up to a blazing temperature before transferring the energy once it connects. Necesarry Ingredients: [T3] Magma Dragon's Blood
Master Rune of Currents:
The weapon cuts like the biting winds at the mountain's peak, faster, sharper and unblockable. Necessary Ingredients: [T2] Griffon's Brain
Combo, Meteorfall:
Strikes from this weapon hit like an object from the void striking the earth, an explosion of energy that expresses itself through heat, air and fire aimed solely at the enemy. [Blows from this weapon cause an expanding Bubble of energy that forces itself to expand despite whatever may be stopping it.] [Master Rune of Conduction, Rune of Might, Rune of Impact.]

To me it looks like Snorri's Master Runes of Conduction and of Currents are related to Fire and Frost. Though... Conduction has a Tier 3 ingredient, to the Tier 2 of Currents... hm. Anyway!

Meteorfall was made with Conduction, Might, and Impact, right? So I wanted to see what happens if you threw together a Master Rune of Currents, a Rune of Might, and the Rune of... Cleaving, I believe. Something about "cold, biting winds" feels like it might resonate with the word "cleave", you know? The wind is so cold, that it bites into the enemy.

Though, that's just based on my looking at the word "cleave" and going "Cool." The Rune of Cleaving was used in mining, to break through rock... then again, perhaps that could still work? A wind that abrades even the mountains... Actually you know what that reminds me of? Wutroth. And how apparently part of its growth, is about having layers battered by the winds. (That kind of confused me, but hey it's fantasy.) Perhaps we'll find that "Silver Wutroth" could be an ingredient used in some kind of Frost or Cold Wind themed Runes.

The other possibility was Currents + Might + Striking. "A weapon with this rune moves to strike the foe's most vulnerable area with an uncanny precision." Together, that sounds like a mighty wind that flows and slices through the enemy. The speed and piercing nature of wind.


Part of the problem I've been having is that... when I look at the description of the Master Rune of Currents, it says "like the biting winds at the mountain's peak, faster, sharper and unblockable." So the winds are already faster, sharper, and unblockable. Would adding runes that make it even more faster or more sharper or more unblockable, be a good idea?

Perhaps it should be the Rune of Parrying, then. "A weapon with this rune moves to block incoming attacks, making its wielder extremely hard to hit." Now that adds something to the wind; it adds the element of elusiveness, of being really friggin hard to hit. So, the Dwarf


So yeah. The trouble is that while I started off with a simple idea of "Master Rune of Currents, Rune of Might, and a Rune of Cleaving obviously!" Then I considered either a Rune of Striking or even Parrying rather than Cleaving. Further thought made me more doubtful, because I wanted to achieve something that's a frost counterpart to Trollslayer, and yet nothing really seemed to quite click. The description of Currents was partly at fault; it already said a lot about biting wind, so adding more Runes... Then again, maybe that in and of itself could be a good way to get a combo going? Runes that align easily and just reinforce what the main Master Rune is doing.
 
I expect that our next weapon will use a master rune of currents just because we have such a pile of griffin brains.
 
I expect that our next weapon will use a master rune of currents just because we have such a pile of griffin brains.
There's that too! There's just so many of them lying around, it feels a shame...

Perhaps we'll end up making a lot of items then? Try out all of the combinations I speculated on, and find out by experiment which one works best.

After all, we don't have to pour a ton of actions into making a single weapon. We can spend 4 actions on making a set of weapons, all themed around frost, and seeing which one worked out the best. Call it -- them -- collectively, the Fangs of Winter or something like that, maybe?
 
There's that too! There's just so many of them lying around, it feels a shame...

Perhaps we'll end up making a lot of items then? Try out all of the combinations I speculated on, and find out by experiment which one works best.

After all, we don't have to pour a ton of actions into making a single weapon. We can spend 4 actions on making a set of weapons, all themed around frost, and seeing which one worked out the best. Call it -- them -- collectively, the Fangs of Winter or something like that, maybe?
Let's see if a cool hero team shows up and we can make them a set of theme weapons.

Edit: I feel like making an bunch of different combos with the master rune of currents should give progress towards understanding the rune.
 
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Though, that's just based on my looking at the word "cleave" and going "Cool." The Rune of Cleaving was used in mining, to break through rock... then again, perhaps that could still work? A wind that abrades even the mountains... Actually you know what that reminds me of? Wutroth. And how apparently part of its growth, is about having layers battered by the winds. (That kind of confused me, but hey it's fantasy.)
Its a thing with certain high altitude mountain top forest biomes, their bark is abraded by seasonal winds and its a normal part of their breeding cycle IRL.

Part of the problem I've been having is that... when I look at the description of the Master Rune of Currents, it says "like the biting winds at the mountain's peak, faster, sharper and unblockable." So the winds are already faster, sharper, and unblockable. Would adding runes that make it even more faster or more sharper or more unblockable, be a good idea?
That is pretty much the exact process I used to come up with Meteorfall, so it works. Stacking secondary effects onto the primary effects of a Master Rune is an intuitive process.

I believe OTL many of the Norscans were of the Norsii tribe driven out of the lower Old World by Sigmar and his Empire, yeah, already corrupted and driven into a place that only encouraged it.
Went digging through my WFRP books again and I found where I got it from: Tome of Corruption page 138.

I was also a little off. They lived in the Forest of Shadows, so Ostland in the modern empire, up until the Teutogens and other tribes got together and kicked the Norsii tribal group out and pushed them east into conflict with the Udoses (The tribe Freddy descends from), and the Ungols of Kislev. Peace happened for a while, but Norsii trickled north. Then when Sigmar popped up and banded tribes together, the remaining Norsii groups did not bend then knee and fled north along with disaffected members of other tribes. They conflicted with the Ungols and then were pushed even further North to Norsca.

This obviously took quite a bit of time on a historical scale.
 
Wait, gah, wasn't there something about not making so many Master Runes in such a short frame of time? And super-especially not making the same Master Rune? Gaaah.

Maybe we'll have to make the weapons with the Rune of Frost rather than Currents, as practice and preparation for the Master Rune.

... Why do we even have so many Griffon Brains, if we can't possibly use them up in like a century or two centuries?


One neat thing to think about though; technically, this doesn't have to just be Axes or Hammers, right? After all, Crossbows are also weapons, right? So. Bolts that shoot up with the bite of winter itself. That'd be cool. Would make our Quarrelers and Rangers a bit happier maybe.
 
Wait, gah, wasn't there something about not making so many Master Runes in such a short frame of time? And super-especially not making the same Master Rune? Gaaah.

Maybe we'll have to make the weapons with the Rune of Frost rather than Currents, as practice and preparation for the Master Rune.

... Why do we even have so many Griffon Brains, if we can't possibly use them up in like a century or two centuries?


One neat thing to think about though; technically, this doesn't have to just be Axes or Hammers, right? After all, Crossbows are also weapons, right? So. Bolts that shoot up with the bite of winter itself. That'd be cool. Would make our Quarrelers and Rangers a bit happier maybe.
Its a rough guideline of 3-4 of the same Master Rune in a century. Its all in the FAQ.
 
Wait, gah, wasn't there something about not making so many Master Runes in such a short frame of time? And super-especially not making the same Master Rune? Gaaah.

Maybe we'll have to make the weapons with the Rune of Frost rather than Currents, as practice and preparation for the Master Rune.

... Why do we even have so many Griffon Brains, if we can't possibly use them up in like a century or two centuries?


One neat thing to think about though; technically, this doesn't have to just be Axes or Hammers, right? After all, Crossbows are also weapons, right? So. Bolts that shoot up with the bite of winter itself. That'd be cool. Would make our Quarrelers and Rangers a bit happier maybe.
We might end up using the brains for a set?
 
I wanted a pair of Axes with Master Rune of Currents I think. One with Might and Striking the other with Might and Cleaving.

Idea was one would be The Hunter seeking to strike the weakness of the for with the cutting chill of the mountain gale. The other would bt The Striker ending him with the cutting chill of the storm.

Like one to hit with cutting depression and the other to hit with overwhelming cutting force.

Thinking of it Current and Might with Parrying would go well with one of Striking too. One hit without error and the other blocks without error. Both with cutting chill and mountain like strength.

Honestly looking at it I like the idea of a Striking and Parrying combo.
 
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Its a rough guideline of 3-4 of the same Master Rune in a century. Its all in the FAQ.
I feel like that rules might be bent a bit if they are made as a set. It isn't a case of just tossing them out, but more like a single master work with multiple parts.

Edit: Actually could we put the rune of brotherhood on each of them? Seems what the rune is actually meant to do.
 
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