On that note, does Kirika know what we threatened to do to her?
She was rocked during that sequence, so it depends on whether or not Oriko told her. Oriko is clearly terrified of the idea, and neither she nor Kirika have displayed overt hostility to us since, so I guess probably not.
 
We might want to talk this out with Oriko, first. She might have told her, she might have not. She might not want her to know, for some reason.
Yeah, right after we're done feeling terrible for how we've treated Mami and apologizing, we need to go feel terrible about, and apologize for, what we did to Oriko. I can guarantee that if someone were to threaten to witch out Mami in front of us, we would advocate killing her on the spot and we would not be even slightly remorseful. We owe her one hell of an apology, and a release from house arrest (if we can convince Homura). As for why she might not want Kirika to know? She could have trouble talking about it, for all we know.
 
If Kirika knew, I'd expect her to be much less friendly to us. We have a lot to answer for to pretty much all our friends.
 
One rather unpleasant truth: If Madoka wishes for grief cleansing, she'd probably never witch and couldn't make a wish that would put her in danger.

Homura would not like this idea one bit though.
 
Hell, she'd probably be able to continually cleanse every meguca in the world simultaneously, considering just how powerful she is. A perfect, happy worl- *Homura resets the timeline*
 
One rather unpleasant truth: If Madoka wishes for grief cleansing, she'd probably never witch and couldn't make a wish that would put her in danger.

Homura would not like this idea one bit though.
It would be cool if Madoka's wish shoved most of her potential into a Sabrina shaped hole in space, and creating her actually took away Madoka's potential.

Has KB been noted as pressuring Madoka into contracting as much as in last canon timeline?
 
How long does it take for real brain damage to occur if a desouled body stopped pumping blood into it's brain? Will it affect memories at all if the soul is in the gem anyway?
 
How long does it take for real brain damage to occur if a desouled body stopped pumping blood into it's brain? Will it affect memories at all if the soul is in the gem anyway?
I know in the game that Sayaka can be separated from her soul gem for quite some time if you screw up when Madoka throws it off the bridge. She wakes up looking like a corpse, but her mind is fine. It's the closest thing I have to proof that the Meguca's mind is within the gem.
 
I know in the game that Sayaka can be separated from her soul gem for quite some time if you screw up when Madoka throws it off the bridge. She wakes up looking like a corpse, but her mind is fine. It's the closest thing I have to proof that the Meguca's mind is within the gem.
She was fairly...out of it though.

It would be cool if Madoka's wish shoved most of her potential into a Sabrina shaped hole in space, and creating her actually took away Madoka's potential.

Has KB been noted as pressuring Madoka into contracting as much as in last canon timeline?
Madoka did get pressured, somewhat.
 
I hope this isn't particularly controversial, but on the subject of things we need to do, we need to make nice with Oriko. Especially now that we've acknowledged that we've already taken some 'ends justify the means' actions. I think part of the character development that Sabrina needs is to acknowledge that her way might achieve all her goals, but that doesn't always make it the right thing to do. And maybe we need to acknowledge to Oriko that we've been a hypocrite in many ways. I kind of feel she'd be the only one of our acquaintances who would really understand that.

That and we need to heal her and relax her house arrest a bit. We've left her in some pain and then gone out and caused her more, not to mention risked her girlfriend's life, and it does not sit well with me.

And personally, given how this arc has played out, I feel like I understand Oriko a bit better now myself.
 
I don't want to go too far, but talking to Oriko, coming to some kind of agreement/level of understanding, and definitely healing her is a thing that should happen, yeah. She's saved enough lives to justify some level of trust, Kirika's been a big help, and she could have run long before this.
 
I don't want to go too far, but talking to Oriko, coming to some kind of agreement/level of understanding, and definitely healing her is a thing that should happen, yeah. She's saved enough lives to justify some level of trust, Kirika's been a big help, and she could have run long before this.
And having awkward tea parties.
 
For madoka wishing, back in the beginning, some suggested to wish for absolute immortality for sabrina. That may be an option for madoka, if its really just about keeping her safe. Its selfish though, but word/mean it correctly and you may have made both madoka dieing and kriemhild gretchen impossible.

There are likely some far better options however.
 
I hope this isn't particularly controversial, but on the subject of things we need to do, we need to make nice with Oriko. Especially now that we've acknowledged that we've already taken some 'ends justify the means' actions. I think part of the character development that Sabrina needs is to acknowledge that her way might achieve all her goals, but that doesn't always make it the right thing to do. And maybe we need to acknowledge to Oriko that we've been a hypocrite in many ways. I kind of feel she'd be the only one of our acquaintances who would really understand that.

That and we need to heal her and relax her house arrest a bit. We've left her in some pain and then gone out and caused her more, not to mention risked her girlfriend's life, and it does not sit well with me.

And personally, given how this arc has played out, I feel like I understand Oriko a bit better now myself.
Not controversial to me. I've pretty much been advocating that. We owe her, and I agree that with Sabrina's character development that we should have a better understanding of Oriko. I also agree that we should talk to her about our own hypocritical actions and doubts. Seems like she would totally understand that and it might help build bridges. Healing her and relaxing her house arrest also needs to happen.
 
We want a system that isn't dependent on Sabrina as a fail point, though. Or just Madoka, for that matter.

@Gadjo

Yeah, that seems like it's been in the works for a while now, and after this, definitely.
 
For madoka wishing, back in the beginning, some suggested to wish for absolute immortality for sabrina. That may be an option for madoka, if its really just about keeping her safe. Its selfish though, but word/mean it correctly and you may have made both madoka dieing and kriemhild gretchen impossible.

There are likely some far better options however.
Also, living forever isn't as nice as it sounds when all your mortal friends and family inevitably grow old and die around you. Even Homura would likely fail and die given an infinite amount of time to keep fighting and winning, and that's assuming Meguca are as immortal as we think they are.
 
Hmm... trying for something nasty meta... wishing that other people would make wishes that.... sounds like it would likely both be unethical and go horribly wrong.

Have madoka wish that every witch would keep their humanity? World rewrite for... the better? probably, but depends on details. May also still turn madoka into a concept. Maybe try limting it to the present forward.

Have her just wish for POWER? What would someone like madoka get?

Wish to erase magic from earth and humanity in the present (so to not get stone-age ending)? May be workable, but we dont know how the world would change in the long run. And have to be carefull it dosent just erase all current puella magi.

Wish to be/control griemhild gretchen? That may be enough power.

Wish for the whole incubator race to develop emotions? This would be... interesting. Spectacular, even. Somewhat unpredictable though.

Im out of ideas for the moment.
 
There is also the issue that we've been working with the people who burned down Sayaka's house and broke her friend's arm for several days now. And we haven't told Sayaka about it. I don't think she's going to be very happy about that if she ever finds out.
 
There is also the issue that we've been working with the people who burned down Sayaka's house and broke her friend's arm for several days now. And we haven't told Sayaka about it. I don't think she's going to be very happy about that if she ever finds out.
Which is why we probably want to mention that when we explain the rest to her to avoid unfortunate misunderstandings.
 
Re:Madoka Potential: The idea of all of her potential being personified as Sabrina is an interesting one but doesn't seem to logically follow from the mechanics we know, but that's not enough to go on. Still, we should be able to ask Kyubey.

Re:Madoka wish ideas: Fuck you guys I still say if we let her do so at all she should have Hope control to complement our powerset. We'll have THE BEST fusion attacks gtfo.

re:Witchbomb and excuses. "Oh shit Mami muh brain damage. I have these memories and some of them have been wrong and some haven't and I didn't want to say something so horribly devastating without having absolute certainty. I could test the lichbomb thing but witchbomb? No real ethical way to do so. Anyway list of apologies."

Wishes are generally not monkey's paws. You get the intent of the wish.

It wouldn't really be a monkey's paw situation though, because it's not screwing Homura. She is just like Sayaka, Kyouko, and everyone else in that she wishes for one thing and secretly wants another, and that causes her distress. Wishes also seem to follow the karmic flow of the universe and cause distortions. Homura not being able to change Madoka's fate is thematically appropriate.

I did always figure that Wally was resistant to physical attacks, one more reason Homu couldn't win. I've always thought that the whole Mitakihara team+Kyoko could have defeated Walpurgisnacht, but Homura refused to try to unite them after the 3rd timeline. It works well with her general running theme of failure: she had all the tools she needed to win, but because she kept trying to do it alone, rather than working with Mami and Sayaka when she had the chance, she was doomed to failure.

It seems to me that Homura is actually capable of changing the future, it's just that she fails to beat Walpurgis. I prefer to blame it on her inability to work with others rather that just "fate".

Homura is capable of changing the future, but not the future that actually matters: Madoka's.

I always liked the idea that Walpurgis losing to Madoka was its own will. It's the Stage-Constructing Witch. "She will continue to rotate aimlessly throughout the world until she completely changes the whole of this age into a drama." It looks at Madoka and finds that a selfless sacrifice against all odds makes for a good death. When Madoka died rather than let the rampage continue, Walpurgis could have pushed through the injury, but instead sort of... gave up. It had turned the world into a drama, the drama of the unlikely valiant hero who gave her life to defeat a force incomprehensibly greater than she, and it didn't mind perishing.

As for why it doesn't do the same for Homura? Well, we know from HN Elly that witches can read their victims to some degree. Perhaps Walpurgis sees in Homura the potential for a more interesting tragedy, and hence, refuses to die just yet.

Or I could be talking completely out of my arse and it really is just a matter of vulnerabilities.

That characterization of Walpurgis is a neat one, but the same write-ups you're sourcing also reference a desire to cover the world in magic and completely erase all sad and tragic things by way of making them a mere performance.

The way I saw it, Walpurgis comes to places, causes DRAMA, then retreats. In some timelines where she was seemingly destroyed, she might have faked it and retreated after being satisfied with enough destruction. I also like the headcanon that she comes to places to absorb witches, and then leave. The huge congregation of witches in Mitakihara attracted her, and thus she came.
 
One more idea, risky as fuck though, and may just poof without seemingly doing much. And wed need to confirm what were dealing with:
Wish away homucifer. Not kill her necessarily, but stop her from supressing madokami.

Best case, weve averted the black feathers threat, and madokamis effect spreads to this world, without erasing our madoka. All of these are highly questionable though....

maybe not the greatest idea...
 
Madokami's wish erases her from all existence.
If that is true, then black feathers cant be homucifer, because theres a madoka here. Unless she restored them all that way... in which case to save our madoka, we have to have homucifer win or at least keep as she is, because her losing means madokami means our madoka being erased.
 
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