Can I just say, I adore this post? So much so that I'll break my customary silence on this sort of thing and say: yes, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head for Kyouko.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- Florida
I caught back up again!
What's the current tea? It seems this latest arc has skyrocketed the plot forwards in not very many words! Very interesting turns of events. I'm glancing over the day planner spreadsheet and the admittedly somewhat low-fidelity plans in it don't appear to have changed; I feel like the plans we had for the coming week were perhaps not penned with it in mind that we would suddenly spill the beans.
Has it been discussed that we may want to reevaluate our plans now that we're not working in total secrecy? Mami is the smartest, but if we're meant to tell more people, then eventually (and sooner the more we tell) we should expect certain details of it to leak to other people in our orbit.
That brings to mind: what exactly is our angle on Feathers? Since we've firmly established that we think the issue is cosmic in scale, do we have some cosmic level answer? To me it seems like the paths to that answer lead to us digging back into potentially dangerous Brina!science, or back to Toshimichi. Perhaps not exclusively either or, and ofc Firn could introduce uncertainty with future revelations, but with our current knowledge those are the routes I see.
Obviously moremangirlpower could be instrumental, especially with leveraging the power of friendship as our stated goal, but I'm not confident these secrets will remain kept til next week when we have a blanker agenda, so I don't feel confident our plans for a week of full-throttle diplomacy would shake out. If not necessarily taking immediate action, I would be in favor of having backup plans and contingencies for this sort of thing.
Has this been discussed?
What's the current tea? It seems this latest arc has skyrocketed the plot forwards in not very many words! Very interesting turns of events. I'm glancing over the day planner spreadsheet and the admittedly somewhat low-fidelity plans in it don't appear to have changed; I feel like the plans we had for the coming week were perhaps not penned with it in mind that we would suddenly spill the beans.
Has it been discussed that we may want to reevaluate our plans now that we're not working in total secrecy? Mami is the smartest, but if we're meant to tell more people, then eventually (and sooner the more we tell) we should expect certain details of it to leak to other people in our orbit.
That brings to mind: what exactly is our angle on Feathers? Since we've firmly established that we think the issue is cosmic in scale, do we have some cosmic level answer? To me it seems like the paths to that answer lead to us digging back into potentially dangerous Brina!science, or back to Toshimichi. Perhaps not exclusively either or, and ofc Firn could introduce uncertainty with future revelations, but with our current knowledge those are the routes I see.
Obviously more
Has this been discussed?
In my opinion, maintaining the secrecy of the "info hazards", specifically the Litch-bomb and Witch-bomb, is a futile endeavor in the long term.
*Especially* in a group like the one we're trying to make.
Because both of those bombs are ≈ basic facts about how magic works. Keeping them secret is kinda like keeping electromagnetism secret- good luck with that. (Granted, the same could be applied for magic *in general* but magic being secret is a given in this setting; Kuybey maintains it for reasons)
Let's get an example. So, say that Constellation gets a set-up for training new magical girls; probably not a "magic high school" but more like private tutoring. You can't exactly have a self-defense class if you don't know where your vital spots are. Or- for rescue operations, it's good to know that just grabbing the gem is an option.
And, if we ever figure out how to dewitch people, we kinda need to explain what *happened* to them. And, to be frank, I don't think that we'll be able to simply turn them back into MGs (unless we can get some divine intervention). It's kinda like trying to unburn wood. You can *technically* do it, but in practice . . .
And, even if we did figure it out we'd have the failed and semi-failed experiments to deal with.
- Location
- United States
There's another twist on this: part of the reason Kyōko left was because she thought Mami deserved a better partner than her. So every time she compares herself to Sabrina and comes up short, she sees that as proof that she was right all along.
- Location
- Florida
Which begs my question: what do we do if and when that happens? If we don't do it on our own immediately (not advocating for that), then we have to assume it can happen outside of our control. Since it's no longer a secret, the question isn't a matter of if, but when and from whom the story spreads, and every moment we put off making it public knowledge ourself is a roll of the die against an invisible and unknowable but certain and inexorable clock.
Anything we do will be a calculated risk, but i feel like if we plan early, we can avoid anything prickly. If we do it ourself (perhaps after speaking too those who deserve to hear it from us directly and hopefully with their help), then we can make a plan and control the narrative. If we don't do it early, instead we need a plan for damage control since the info will probably make its way to QB and Feathers, as well as Homu and Mado. Either way, once it's out there, they'd a massive ramp up in stakes.
By revealing our nature, we've put a time limit on our efforts. If were to get lucky and roll well, that time limit could happen to fall after Walpy, but i feel like that's wishful thinking.
As an aside, if we could solve de-witching and non-brina grief cleansing, i feel like that'd be enough to potentially consider recruiting potentials who are willing to Wish for crafted Wishes to further our cause. So long as someone knows enough to make an informed decision and we have the solutions to the downsides to prevent the moral issues, even a single well crafted Wish might be enough to solve things. So i guess that's a 3rd route for how we could tackle feathers and QB.
Romka
Master of Stealth
- Location
- In a barrel
Green, or if we're feeling especially bold, sweet. And microwaved of course.
In general, we plan to more people read in on the secrets we have, though which people and which secrets will vary. On this note, I will say that I think we should just tell the whole constellation about the witchbomb. Keeping it a secret is a lot less justifiable when we all have free cleansing, and it creates an information vacuum that is already causing problems. See earlier today when the Soujous looked either like obsessive serial killers/kidnappers or well intentioned extremists depending on whether or not someone knew the witchbomb.
Our plan for feathers is to diplomance her by proving that the world can be fixed and that there's no need for her or Madoka to do anything with their wishes. And if that fails, our backup plan is to have our versions of them use their super magic to stop them.
- Location
- Florida
I feel like those plans might be a little lacking in nuance. We don't have such close relationships with every member (like 20 more people to tell by my count) of Constellation that we could reasonably expect to handle witchbombing then all. One bad conversation with Mami caused her to spiral and took years of irl time working closely with her in depth to repair. We don't have the connections to just say it without risking disastrous consequences.
And just assuming we can diplomance a cosmic entity sort of assumes we have the power to make it sit and listen to us. Otherwise we'd have spent this whole quest praying to try to communicate to it.
And just assuming we can diplomance a cosmic entity sort of assumes we have the power to make it sit and listen to us. Otherwise we'd have spent this whole quest praying to try to communicate to it.
Now . . . I'm not sure if specifically crafting Wishes is *possible*. I suspect that it's *not*, otherwise Kuybey would have gotten entropy wished away by now.
This also brings up why Kuybey doesn't explain things. There's the "you didn't ask" thing, but I'm going to note something: Knowing the costs wouldn't stop many from contracting. As in, say that magic was well-known, with all the bombs spilt, at the time Homura made her wish. Homura still would have made it. Sure the costs are great, but a Wish is still a Wish. Honestly, the reveals mostly serve to just bring MGs over the edge a bit quicker.
And magic being secret in general is mostly just a genre convention, and the in-universe reasoning for Kuybey to do it is probably a combination of it being better for efficiency and a wish making it worthwhile. (Ie. It's odd, but it's part of how the world works)
So . . .
Providing that Kuybey still bothers to come to our planet after this, we won't be hungry for new members
- Location
- Florida
You are correct, but what i was suggesting (crafted wishes) is an enormous ask. You only get 1 wish, and then you're immortal. So it's still a matter of finding someone willing to give theirs up for the greater good. I don't doubt that those people exist, but i think it's a lot to ask of someone. It's a decision which you have to live with forever.
ExploerTM
Ruin has found you at last!
- Location
- Russia, Perm
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Not to mention when truth comes out I bet there would be quite a few people who would have to say a few things about making Wishes for the Greater Good. Its a powerful tool, sure, but are we THAT desperate to start trading souls in hopes to find a miracle?
Wrong, while there were girls like Mami and Homura who made their Wishes out of desperation and had little choice in the matter, a lot of other girls contracted either out of greed, curiosity or out of desire to protect people. And I bet a lot of them would've thought twice if they ACTUALLY knew what is going on.
First of all we can always just ask about this stuff. Kyubey would be delighted if we started going around recruiting girls to grind up and shovel into his death machine and if this kind of thing is at all useful it would be in his short term interest to tell us all about it (on the other hand even if it's not useful it would still be in his interest to carefully word answers to convince us that it is). In the long term this kind of thing leads to even more aggressive system breaking than we're already doing but I'm unclear on both where Kyubey rates our threat level and how much he's willing to sacrifice in the short term to put a stop to us. All of which is to say that he's unreliable but he might answer
If I had to make a guess as to how this works I'd say that wishes are a mixture of wording, intent, and potential and the three are all interlinked. A wish is most effective when it's a crystallization of a single deeply held desire on the part of wisher. Complicated wishes with lots of clauses will fail to express a single deep desire and not work; carefully crafted but simple wishes will only be effective if they're truly something the wisher longs for with all her heart and not just something that's been suggested to her
I didn't say that it wouldn't decrease the people- I'm saying that there's *plenty* who would still take the offer, consequences be damned.
But yeah- the pool would be a bit less. And, thinking about it, would decrease the # high-importance/power people- they likely aren't as desperate. But some things wouldn't change the end-result in many cases, like I said. A Wish is *incredibly* valuable, and people can be short-sighted.
Also, thinking about it, increased knowledge means that more people would make Wishes that involve magic itself in some way. Say- Sabrina made her specific wish because of her knowledge. While I doubt that many have the potential to rewrite magic *in general*, you can probably have wishes that negate witchouts or soul gem shattering for individuals.
Romka
Master of Stealth
- Location
- In a barrel
Man, what a time for Sayaka to go on vacation. Probably less than an hour after she left we found a major clue about feathers and revealed a story about universe resets and reality changing gods that are influencing our reality, and could possibly be inferred to be two of her friends. I wonder if she'd want to be around to hear it. Its such an insane mess after a busy day that it might prove her right for going on a vacation when she did, but its also so cool and important that it might prove her wrong.
Either way, Sayaka's got a big reveal waiting for her when she wants to get back into things.
Either way, Sayaka's got a big reveal waiting for her when she wants to get back into things.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Am I being paranoid for being worried that when we go to dinner with Shin, we will find Nagisa already contracted?
I've been seeing this image of Kyubey coming to Nagisa, explaining that Sabrina is a Magical Girl and talking Sabrina up to her as he explains about the evil sky pirates we had to save people from. Then noting that Nagisa herself could become a Magical Girl who would be able to help her big sis if she wanted.
Feels like that would be a pretty solid emotional punch for him to use against us, and I can't think of anything we've done that would prevent it. Did I forget something we said to her that might make this less viable for Kyubey to pull?
I've been seeing this image of Kyubey coming to Nagisa, explaining that Sabrina is a Magical Girl and talking Sabrina up to her as he explains about the evil sky pirates we had to save people from. Then noting that Nagisa herself could become a Magical Girl who would be able to help her big sis if she wanted.
Feels like that would be a pretty solid emotional punch for him to use against us, and I can't think of anything we've done that would prevent it. Did I forget something we said to her that might make this less viable for Kyubey to pull?
- Location
- Australia
Yes. She doesn't even have the potential to become a magical girl.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
What?
She became a Magical Girl in other timelines, became Charlotte the Sweets Witch that bit Mami's head off, and showed up in Rebellion as one of the angels Madoka entrusted with her memories when she infiltrated Kyubey's isolation field.
If Nagisa stopped being a potential at some point, that would have ENORMOUS implications.
- Location
- Australia
Since Sabrina first met her in the hospital.
- Location
- Florida
Have we given QB any reason to want to quarrel with us? I feel like given our very limited interactions (purposefully), we've got no real idea what QB thinks of us, if it even thinks of us much at all. Presumably it saw us make a barrier? So it knows we're very curious, but it's made no passive agressive moves on us, no?
As I recall, Sabrina can sense the inherent potential of girls who can become Magical Girls, and Nagisa did not ping as anything other than a regular human.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I just double checked. I'm assuming you mean this in Entanglement part 8:
The trouble is, this is sufficiently early in the quest that we didn't actually know that potentials and normal people feel different to our grief senses. The first mention I can find of us knowing the difference is here in Entanglement part 31:
If she's not a potential, pretty much all my plans for what to say to Shin at dinner are going to need to be rewritten.
We declared ourselves his enemy when we Lichbombed Mami, and he almost Witched her out with his parting shot as he left. He's subsequently directed a girl with the power to rip out souls to come rip out Sabrina's soul and has presumably been feeding information to other of the enemies that showed up. I don't know how he could make his enmity toward us any clearer.
Lopezelpesado
Space worm best worm.
- Pronouns
- Something
Wasnt it more like she didnt ping as a magical girl yet? Idk I cant remember.
Tho we HAVE warned Nagisa about Kyubey so hopefully she will listen to our advice.
- Location
- United States
IIRC we specifically told her not to trust talking animals at some point.
EDIT: found it:
Last edited:
- Location
- Florida
Tbf the whole maggy snafu was like half a decade ago, so excuse my lack of recall. That said, it's been like 4.5 days since that and he's not been seen around. Obviously it's amoral and repugnant, but I'm not certain us declaring our motives to QB really phases it. Homu shot and killed tons of QB bodies and it still was just vaguely confused with her. If QB viewed us as a threat, it's shown itself as being capable of trapping Madokami, so I see no reason why it would direct goons at us like Power Rangers. That's not to say that I think QB has been friendly to us, but it's certainly not confronted us directly in a way that reveals malicious intent beyond its normal modus operandi imo.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Mostly, I'm just not seeing how contracting Nagisa would be outside its normal modus operandi.