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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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PhantomFractions said:
Not every witch drops a seed.
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All witches drop seeds. Familiars, however, don't. From what Kyoko said to Sayaka in the show, it's pretty easy to distinguish the two once you know how. Mami was lying earlier on so that Madoka and Sayaka wouldn't get it in their heads to allow familiars to kill people like Kyoko did.
Loops said:
*snip*
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I want her to be sympathetic too, but I don't think her motives could possibly be as simple as comfortable survival. With Phantom's math, she must be sitting on the grief seed pile to end all grief seed piles. Either something else she's doing is using them up at a rate that can only be described as "fucking crazy" or she has some personal mission. Didn't someone say she might be trying to keep a soul gem alive separate from the body? I could see that consuming a bunch of seeds, and it satisfies both the "high grief usage" and "personal mission" conditions that might motivate her to run such a lucrative racket, but then we're back to "why the hell doesn't she just ally with Sabrina?".
 
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Gadjo said:
I want her to be sympathetic too, but I don't think her motives could possibly be as simple as comfortable survival. With Phantom's math, she must be sitting on the grief seed pile to end all grief seed piles. Either something else she's doing is using them up at a rate that can only be described as "fucking crazy" or she has some personal mission. Didn't someone say she might be trying to keep a soul gem alive separate from the body? I could see that consuming a bunch of seeds, and it satisfies both the "high grief usage" and "personal mission" conditions that might motivate her to run such a lucrative racket, but then we're back to "why the hell doesn't she just ally with Sabrina?".
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Yeah, I was reading through his post too. That certainly is some math. I don't know what the hell now.
 
Gadjo said:
All witches drop seeds. Familiars, however, don't. From what Kyoko said to Sayaka in the show, it's pretty easy to distinguish the two once you know how. Mami was lying earlier on so that Madoka and Sayaka wouldn't get it in their head to allow familiars to kill people like Kyoko did.

I want her to be sympathetic too, but I don't think her motives could possibly be as simple as comfortable survival. With Phantom's math, she must be sitting on the grief seed pile to end all grief seed piles. Either something else she's doing is using them up at a rate that can only be described as "fucking crazy" or she has some personal mission. Didn't someone say she might be trying to keep a soul gem alive separate from the body? I could see that consuming a bunch of seeds, and it satisfies both the "high grief usage" and "personal mission" conditions that might motivate her to run such a lucrative racket, but then we're back to "why the hell doesn't she just ally with Sabrina?".
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Because she isn't being a reasonable person. If we assume she has good reasons, that means she's calculating in the same way Homura is calculating - remember the only reason H trusts us even a little is because of Madoka's wish. Akiko might want to test our capabilities, or to test our sincerity in the face of adverse conditions, or have any number of personal hangups to get over before she would consider allying with Sabrina
 
Yeah, I don't have nearly the faith in humanity to assume Akkiko's doing this for a good reason. If I get my way, we take Homura with us once all of this is over and timestop-assassinate her.

Disagree with some parts of Ugo's vote though. As much as I want to [redacted for violence], we need to maintain a facade of placidity.

[x] Polite and Indifferent @ Akkiko: "Ah, I'm sorry, but it seems that you are not wanted at the negotiating table. Rin will be your representative. Thank you for understanding."
--[x] Do not respond to further inquiries from Hamasaki. If pressed, respond with: "I apologize, but I need to concentrate. You are being distracting. Please route all your statements through Rin."
[x] Concerned @ Rin: "Are you alright, Rin? Do you need a break?"
--[x] If Rin needs a break, go with her and be ready for cleansing and listening to her vent.
--[x] Eventually: "I'm sorry, but we need to get back to work. It's going to be okay, Rin."
--[x] Else goto [Begin Negotiations]
[x] Worried @ Mami/Kirika: "I don't like the tactical situation. There's rain coming and we don't have a good fix on Akkiko, Sakura, and the others. Be alert."
[x] [Begin Negotiations]
--[x] Chouko, what are your demands?
--[x] Rin, what will your group give for these demands?
--[x] Encourage the two groups to negotiate directly with each other. Sabrina is there to keep the peace and provide a third perspective if necessary, not to actually negotiate for them. Each group is independent, after all.

EDIT: Wait, hold on, is Chouko saying that she doesn't want Rin at the table? Are we misreading the dialogue there?
 
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PhantomFractions said:
Well, shit. Three seeds a week. That's twelve seeds per month, and 3*52= one hundred and fifty six per year.
For two years?
Three hundred and twelve seeds. Rent. Plus extra to keep formerly six, now four magical girls from witching out.

[...]

Yeah...sorta hoping my numbers are all wrong here....
I'll vote later when my immediate reaction isn't [q] Unmake Akiko.
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We have no idea what is a typical amount of witches for a region this size, or a typical number of seeds to support a magical girl. @Firnagzen?

Gadjo said:
but then we're back to "why the hell doesn't she just ally with Sabrina?".
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Because we showed up at a time when everyone's plans to get revenge on her were already in motion.
 
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Tentatively, I can get behind that.
[] Crasian01.

On the subject of Akiko, what the hell should we do about her, given that negotiations work out? I don't want to just go straight to the violence, if for no other reason than to satisfy my curiosity as to what the actual hell she thinks she's doing. Shall we just ask, up front, what the she could have possibly needed that many seeds for? We can't really expect her to answer honestly, so maybe ask Rin (unlikely to know) or Sakura (unlikely to tell)?

Hell, with all the effort it could take to figure out her motives maybe we should just go with gunboat diplomacy and tell her to deal with it.
 
The secret handshake thing was mostly a joke and attempt to change the subject. Needed more :V I guess?

I know it could potentially induce paranoia in the UG, but could we ask one of them about the rain via telepathy? Does this normally happen whenever Hamasaki shows up? I'd rather not fight her in her element and if this is a prelude to her starting some shit it'd be nice to know.
 
Gadjo said:
Tentatively, I can get behind that.
[] Crasian01.

On the subject of Akiko, what the hell should we do about her, given that negotiations work out? I don't want to just go straight to the violence, if for no other reason than to satisfy my curiosity as to what the actual hell she thinks she's doing. Shall we just ask, up front, what the she could have possibly needed that many seeds for? We can't really expect her to answer honestly, so maybe ask Rin (unlikely to know) or Sakura (unlikely to tell)?

Hell, with all the effort it could take to figure out her motives maybe we should just go with gunboat diplomacy and tell her to deal with it.
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Re:Akkiko: [later]Timestop Assassination

I honestly, honestly believe that she's not a reasonable actor, and that she will fuck things over later if we don't take her out. It's the orbital nuke option, and as we all know, that's the only way to be sure.
 
I kind of want to ask Akiko, at the nearest opportunity (i.e. if she's still in telepathy range, ask now. If not then at least we know that she's left telepathy range for some reason), what she needs three extra* seeds per week for.

*Deliberately phrased with the assumption that the Sendai girls are still also hunting and this is on top of what they get - if this is not true, she can be the one to point that out.
 
Curiosity killed the cat and all that, but I really want to know what Akiko's motivations for this whole thing are, before we resort to violence.
I have a feeling, it might have something to do with Kato running off two years ago since that seemed to start of the whole mess in the first place.

Edit: Could we ask the University group or Rin about Kato?
 
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Crasian, the ishinomaki war aside, Akiko has shown herself to be a mostly reasonable person. She is pretty much the only reason that the Masami situation ended up as it did instead of having Sakura fuck off with Rin the moment the lichbomb got dropped. Until she demonstrates, in person, mind, that she is an unreasonable warmonger, we shouldn't jump straight to blasting her from orbit.
 
Cannongerbil said:
Crasian, the ishinomaki war aside, Akiko has shown herself to be a mostly reasonable person. She is pretty much the only reason that the Masami situation ended up as it did instead of having Sakura fuck off with Rin the moment the lichbomb got dropped. Until she demonstrates, in person, mind, that she is an unreasonable warmonger, we shouldn't jump straight to blasting her from orbit.
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:|

I mean, that's the reasonable response and you're right, but my hope is low.
 
Just killing Akiko is way too Callous for me. Killing her in self-defense? Fine. Taking her out once we know for a fact that it's necessary? Fine. But just straight up murdering someone is both wrong and will upset the Mumi. Anyway, I doubt her motives can be summed up with "she's just a bitch", and her reasons might be important to us.
 
Bear in mind that we still don't know her motivations for doing all of this, plus most of the information about her activities we got from second hand sources, ones with fairly understandable bias, at that. I don't doubt that the UG are telling the truth about how Akiko treated them, but I'm starting to suspect that the IG may not be entirely upfront with us. We need to get the story from Akiko directly before we start nuking people.

If we start nuking people.
 
Gadjo said:
Just killing Akiko is way too Callous for me. Killing her in self-defense? Fine. Taking her out once we know for a fact that it's necessary? Fine. But just straight up murdering someone is both wrong and will upset the Mumi. Anyway, I doubt her motives can be summed up with "she's just a bitch", and her reasons might be important to us.
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Cannongerbil said:
Bear in mind that we still don't know her motivations for doing all of this, plus most of the information about her activities we got from second hand sources, ones with fairly understandable bias, at that. I don't doubt that the UG are telling the truth about how Akiko treated them, but I'm starting to suspect that the IG may not be entirely upfront with us. We need to get the story from Akiko directly before we start nuking people.

If we start nuking people.
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Again, all fair and reasonable statements. I will reserve the nuclear warheads for such time as we know that Akkiko cannot be bargained, reasoned, or otherwise dealt with. As noted, however, my hopes are low and while I will vote for finding out about Akkiko's situation over the nuclear option, I'm not confident it will do anything but confirm the need for said nuclear option.

That being said, Gadjo, what reservations do you have about my vote?
 
We can hold multiple conversations at the same time. We could just ask her while we're still talking to the University girls.

Akiko did seem reasonable -if a bit cold- the first time we met her. Admittedly, this is compared to Sakura who seems to think we are a Witch... for some strange reason.
 
Crasian01 said:
That being said, Gadjo, what reservations do you have about my vote?
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None that will keep me from voting for it, for now (until a preferable vote shows up). My only issue is probably cutting off any interruptions from outside. They have a right to negotiate as well, even if they are assholes. Making Rin do all the negotiating without help from the rest of her team would be like someone else making us negotiate using only Madoka: it's not really fair.
 
Gadjo said:
None that will keep me from voting for it, for now (until a preferable vote shows up). My only issue is probably cutting off any interruptions from outside. They have a right to negotiate as well, even if they are assholes. Making Rin do all the negotiating without help from the rest of her team would be like someone else making us negotiate using only Madoka: it's not really fair.
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We'll wait and see I guess, but I feel like allowing Akiko to dictate things to US is problematic. She should dictate everything through Rin, period.
 
Ugolino said:
-[x]Due to this, would they say that the specific outlines of which group has which territory is no longer as important? It would seem reasonable for them to share turf and cooperate if both groups go after the same witch. We'll be cleansing the seeds, after all, so who has how many doesn't matter as much. Does that work for everyone as a starting point? No infighting over territory or seeds?[/B]
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This is extremely troublesome. Each side has reasons to hold grudges and to be suspicious of the other; even if nobody gets fragged during a mutual witch-hunt, any actual mishaps could be misinterpreted as foul play and send everything straight back to hell. Also, no territorial integrity means lots of chances for harassment and/or backstabbery.

I'd suggest that we try to reach some kind of arrangement with them at this point - either personally or as a group - whereby we promise to aid them against existential threats (witch or otherwise), cover their 'debts', and keep their gems shiny as long as they keep hunting witches. With the major reasons for conflict dealt with, we could hopefully then get Rin released for nominal concessions.

(Sorry if the formatting or whatever's hideous, mobile)
 
and of no particular relevance to anything:

Kirika: "Sabrina is totally not a witch!"
Sabrina: "Thank you... I think?"
Kirika: "Everyone can see she's a huge troll!"
Sabrina /facepalm
Homura /rimshot
Sabrina: "Did you just timestop to set up a rimshot?"
Homura: "If you can't beat 'em..."
 
Krecart said:
We can hold multiple conversations at the same time. We could just ask her while we're still talking to the University girls.

Akiko did seem reasonable -if a bit cold- the first time we met her. Admittedly, this is compared to Sakura who seems to think we are a Witch... for some strange reason.
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I think a lot of people here are interpreting that as her wanting to use us.
 
OK, making joke votes so these ideas won't slip when I'm thinking about doing actual votes:

[q] "Akiko, you're good at murdering girls. Perhaps we can help each other out? There's a circus full of girls I need to murder."
[q] "Akiko, what is your opinion on onions? Because I find your organization holds an important similarity with them: They make Rin cry."
[q] "Miss Hamasaki, I'm sorry to inform you that you won't be welcome at this meeting. However, I understand your concern about using Miss Rin as your telepathic relay: It is clear that she's joined your group solely due to her skills and in spite of your wildly different personalities, as she's undoubtedly lacking in your complete disregard for human life and does not, in fact, look like a being who would murder another for their own gain. Despair not, as I know of a being who does possess such qualities and would happily act for one such as you: Kyubey. Now, it is unlikely it would be accepted at this meeting seeing as it's caused soooo much suffering to them... Oh, wait, there's no problem at all. These girls will accept it at this table if it keeps you away from them. I guess evil is relative, after all. Murderer."
 
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