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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Random832 said:
I think a lot of people here are interpreting that as her wanting to use us.
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Still think we should just ask her why so many seeds. If the rates are as harsh as they sound then we need to know why. Either Akiko really needs them for something or she's an asshole. Or both, they aren't mutually exclusive, but we still should figure it out.
 
Crasian01 said:
@Onmur

...Do you work in an underground testing facility?
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You know, Sabrina can do a good impersonation of a robot:

Walpurgisnacht is coming," Homura says, abruptly. "Do you know what that is?"

"I, I- The stage-constructing witch (alias: Walpurgis Night/real name: unknown); her nature is helplessness. She symbolizes the fool who continuously spins in circles. The witch's mysteries have been handed down through the course of history; her appellation is 'Walpurgis Night.' She will continue to rotate aimlessly throughout the world until she completely changes the whole of this age into a drama. When the doll's usual upside-down position reaches the top part of the witch, she completely roils the civilization on the ground in a flash through her gale-like flight," you intone, as if reading off a book. The punctuation, the parantheses, are practically audible.
 
Onmur said:
You know, Sabrina can do a good impersonation of a robot:

Walpurgisnacht is coming," Homura says, abruptly. "Do you know what that is?"

"I, I- The stage-constructing witch (alias: Walpurgis Night/real name: unknown); her nature is helplessness. She symbolizes the fool who continuously spins in circles. The witch's mysteries have been handed down through the course of history; her appellation is 'Walpurgis Night.' She will continue to rotate aimlessly throughout the world until she completely changes the whole of this age into a drama. When the doll's usual upside-down position reaches the top part of the witch, she completely roils the civilization on the ground in a flash through her gale-like flight," you intone, as if reading off a book. The punctuation, the parantheses, are practically audible.
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Well I was more saying that you sounded like GLaDOS just now, but that works too...
 
[x]Politely but coldly explain to Akiko that her actions have made her unwelcome at the bargaining table. Rin will act as the spokesperson for her group, and will relay the conversation. We trust she doesn't have any objections to that. (Make it a statement not a question.) If she does press, make it clear that this is how it's going to be.
[x]Telepathy Rin. Is she alright? How much of this did she know about before?
-[x] Do you feel up to doing this?
[x]Ask Mami and Kirika to stay alert via telepathy in case Akiko decides to try something. Keep an eye out with your own grief sense.
[x] Negotiations
- [x] I'm willing to provide free cleansings on any filled seeds both parties have indefintely. In return, I want this extortion business to stop. I don't know why you are stockpiling this many grief seeds, Akiko, , but this deal should provide more than enough to satisfy your needs.
- [x] In addition, all hostilities between Sendai and the Ishinomaki group is to cease, effective immediately.
- [x] Obviously, this deal is dependent on the wellbeing of all parties involved. Should hostilities recommence after this deal, this deal is off, and I will not hestitate to take actions against the instigator.
- [x] I trust that these terms are satisfactory?

I think Ugo's vote goes a little too far with the "territory abolishment" clause. These girls are not going to be able to play nice with each other after what they've been through, and abolishing territory entirely requires them to trust that Sabrina won't just leave them hanging. It's something that we want to work towards, but it's not something that we should be pursuing right now.
 
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I've just realized my wording is unclear. I meant for my vote to force Akiko to relay everything through Rin, but on reflection it sounds like I'm trying to shut Akiko out completely. Edited to change that, the vote now reads:

[] Polite and Indifferent @ Akkiko: "Ah, I'm sorry, but it seems that you are not wanted at the negotiating table. Rin will be your representative. Thank you for understanding."
--[] Do not respond to further inquiries from Hamasaki. If pressed, respond with: "I apologize, but I need to concentrate. You are being distracting. Please route all your statements through Rin."
[] Concerned @ Rin: "Are you alright, Rin? Do you need a break?"
--[] If Rin needs a break, go with her and be ready for cleansing and listening to her vent.
--[] Eventually: "I'm sorry, but we need to get back to work. It's going to be okay, Rin."
--[] Else goto [Begin Negotiations]
[] Worried @ Mami/Kirika: "I don't like the tactical situation. There's rain coming and we don't have a good fix on Akkiko, Sakura, and the others. Be alert."
[] [Begin Negotiations]
--[] Chouko, what are your demands?
--[] Rin, what will your group give for these demands?
--[] Encourage the two groups to negotiate directly with each other. Sabrina is there to keep the peace and provide a third perspective if necessary, not to actually negotiate for them. Each group is independent, after all.
 
Cannongerbil said:
I think Ugo's vote goes a little too far with the "territory abolishment" clause. These girls are not going to be able to play nice with each other after what they've been through, and abolishing territory entirely requires them to trust that Sabrina won't just leave them hanging. It's something that we want to work towards, but it's not something that we should be pursuing right now.
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Ultimately, our demand is that they not fight wars against each other. This removes the means to actually enforce territory.
 
Even though everyone dislikes Akiko right now, (until Firn's dramatic reveal that's she's collecting grief seeds for those poor orphaned witches) can anyone think of a way to tell Akiko of our refusal to personally include her in our discussion in a way, that softens the blow or makes her less likely to get pissed? Angry people make bad decisions and we still have a sort of hostage situation going on.
Like an assurance that we will meet her with Rin in tow later on or something...
I can't really think of something appropriate at the moment.
 
Krecart said:
Still think we should just ask her why so many seeds. If the rates are as harsh as they sound then we need to know why. Either Akiko really needs them for something or she's an asshole. Or both, they aren't mutually exclusive, but we still should figure it out.
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And if she doesn't answer, "Does it have anything to do with Kato Setsuko?"
 
Huh, I have an issue with Cannon's vote. We're here to mediate the negociations and act as an arbitrer when things gets out of control, not to impose our points in order to cease a conflict that is not *our* conflict (we make it ours the moment we went to Ishinomaki to retrieve Sendai, but is originally not our problem).

We can make those points, but I would like to hear what they want as well, like Crasian's vote does, yet I don't like the lines of shutting down Akiko without giving her more reason than "people don't like you."

Perhaps a frankenvote is required here? Thoughts?
 
EtchedSteel said:
Huh, I have an issue with Cannon's vote. We're here to mediate the negociations and act as an arbitrer when things gets out of control, not to impose our points in order to cease a conflict that is not *our* conflict (we make it ours the moment we went to Ishinomaki to retrieve Sendai, but is originally not our problem).

We can make those points, but I would like to hear what they want as well, like Crasian's vote does, yet I don't like the lines of shutting down Akiko without giving her more reason than "people don't like you."

Perhaps a frankenvote is required here? Thoughts?
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I will note that I can totally add more lines there, but I need someone to propose dialogue. I've no idea myself.
 
EtchedSteel said:
Huh, I have an issue with Cannon's vote. We're here to mediate the negociations and act as an arbitrer when things gets out of control, not to impose our points in order to cease a conflict that is not *our* conflict (we make it ours the moment we went to Ishinomaki to retrieve Sendai, but is originally not our problem).

We can make those points, but I would like to hear what they want as well, like Crasian's vote does, yet I don't like the lines of shutting down Akiko without giving her more reason than "people don't like you."
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Here's the thing, though, at this point we are essentially interceding on behalf of the University group. The UG, by themselves, have nothing to offer the Sendai group other than securing Rin's release. It is their only bargaining chip, and if we don't offer our services, that's all they have. They can only go "Do what we want, and we'll release Rin" or "Do what we want, or we'll kill Rin". This is not exactly going to lead to a deal that makes both sides happy.
 
Since Akiko seems like she is a rational, logical person I don't think a "I don't like" you will be enough to satisfy her here.
You can't have negotiations without involving both parties. Rin may be her substitute at the moment, but she is a rather meek one, who doesn't know the reasons for Akiko's actions. If we want to appear neutral we can't make demands for others.
@EtchedSteel already said it: We are here to mediate. It wasn't our conflict originally and although we made it our own by interfering, we are mainly here to broker some sort of agreement or deal between Sendai and the University group and help keep it if necessary.
Before we reply to Akiko in any way and answer the question of her presence at the conference table, how about we first find out what the University girls really want out of this ( what were they hoping to gain y kidnapping Rin etc.), ask Rin some questions about Kato and what she knows and thinks about this whole mess and then relay the Universities proposals to Akiko via telepathy and hear what she has to say.
After that we can still decide if her active presence is needed and refuse her or maybe meet with her on our own.
 
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I like Crasian's "Thank you for understanding." more than "We trust she doesn't have any objections to that. (Make it a statement not a question.) If she does press, make it clear that this is how it's going to be." It's not a huge deal, though.

--[] Do not respond to further inquiries from Hamasaki. If pressed, respond with: "I apologize, but I need to concentrate. You are being distracting. Please route all your statements through Rin."
I'm not sure I like this one. Since we can hold two conversations at once and she likely can not, talking with Akiko would keep her busy while we're still doing what we're doing.

Also, []Telepathy Rin. Is she alright? How much of this did she know about before?. I think the update may break here, if Rin does. While she's not feeling as bad as the Tohoku girls, she's likely being grilled by Akiko at this moment. That's a lot of pressure.
--[] If Rin needs a break, go with her and be ready for cleansing and listening to her vent.
That helps with that.

I don't like any of the votes for negotiations:
Crasian01 said:
[] [Begin Negotiations]
--[] Chouko, what are your demands?
--[] Rin, what will your group give for these demands?
--[] Encourage the two groups to negotiate directly with each other. Sabrina is there to keep the peace and provide a third perspective if necessary, not to actually negotiate for them. Each group is independent, after all.
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Each group stating demands is good, but Sabrina is also a part of these negotiations, with her own demands.
Cannongerbil said:
[x] Negotiations
- [] I'm willing to provide free cleansings on any filled seeds both parties have indefintely. In return, I want this extortion business to stop. I don't know why you are stockpiling this many grief seeds, Akiko, , but this deal should provide more than enough to satisfy your needs.
- [] In addition, all hostilities between Sendai and the Ishinomaki group is to cease, effective immediately.
- [] Obviously, this deal is dependent on the wellbeing of all parties involved. Should hostilities recommence after this deal, this deal is off, and I will enter the war against the instigator.
- [] I trust that these terms are satisfactory?
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This is a little to quick? The other groups should make their demands first. Both UG's 'stop killing us' and Akiko's 'keep giving me seeds'. Also, if we offer infinite cleanse, we need to demand more than 'no exortion', more like 'no fighting against other people'

I'd rather we simply state that we will be the one to enforce whatever agreement is reached, which I think is different from saying we'll enter the war at all.
 
Guilop said:
Since Akiko seems like she is a rational, logical person I don't think a "I don't like" you will be enough to satisfy her here.
You can't have negotiations without involving both parties. Rin may be her substitute at the moment, but she is a rather meek one, who doesn't know the reasons for Akiko's actions.
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If Akiko feels that she can't explain these things to Rin for whatever reason, that is not our problem.
 
Onmur said:
You know, Sabrina can do a good impersonation of a robot:
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We can start telling people we're a robot from the future sent to protect John Conn Kaname Madoka. :p

Random832 said:
And if she doesn't answer, "Does it have anything to do with Kato Setsuko?"
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As a follow up question? Yeah, how else are we supposed to find out. I've seen " talking to Akiko privately" come up once or twice, but we could just do it via telepathy.
 
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Random832 said:
If Akiko feels that she can't explain these things to Rin for whatever reason, that is not our problem.
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If Akiko can't explain something to Rin and we are using Rin as Akiko's spokesperson, we won't have access to the full information, which makes it our problem. I'm honestly considering collecting the demands of the University group, probing Rin for information and then meeting Akiko privately.
Since Rin is relatively new and didn't know about the lichbomb, she won't be able to contribute much to the negotiations aside from what Akiko tells her. If Akiko has some reasons for the way she's acting, but they pertain to magical facts Rin doesn't know about, she might hold them back and we miss out.

To be honest, a negotiation where you negotiate with someone that doesn't have the full information and backstory of the things you will be talking about, at least from the view of the side he is representing, is off to a bad start. If it was anyone else than Rin. that Akiko would feel confident she can disclose her reasoning to or who was with her from the start, I would have no objections to use that someone as a spokesperson.

I am fairly sure that Akiko won't accept and won't respect any deal she didn't personally make, especially if we determine her negotiator for her.
 
Cannongerbil said:
Here's the thing, though, at this point we are essentially interceding on behalf of the University group. The UG, by themselves, have nothing to offer the Sendai group other than securing Rin's release. It is their only bargaining chip, and if we don't offer our services, that's all they have. They can only go "Do what we want, and we'll release Rin" or "Do what we want, or we'll kill Rin". This is not exactly going to lead to a deal that makes both sides happy.
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Your vote specifically says that the war ends now, or else we (Sabrina) take direct action. How you know this is what UG wants? And what happens if Sendai does not agree, or breaks the conditions?

We're not speaking on behalf of UG, but on behalf of ourselves, the uninvited third party.

Don't rush this, UG already told us the context and they're yet to elaborate their demands, what they want from Sendai. We're the mediator, we have no voice on demanding anything here.

If we do, rest assure even Mami will try to call us out.
 
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I agree with @EtchedSteel.
We should find out what exactly the University girls hoped to gain from kidnapping Rin, what they were planning and what their general demands are. We should let them make their own decisions. Our role should be to help reach an agreement and then enforce it and see that it does not get broken. If we make demands of our own, we are not neutral anymore, but just a third party that joined the conflict of their own iniative, even if our goal is to stop the war in the first place.
 
Rewritten vote:

[x]Politely but coldly explain to Akiko that her actions have made her unwelcome at the bargaining table. Rin will act as the spokesperson for her group, and will relay the conversation. We trust she doesn't have any objections to that. (Make it a statement not a question.) If she does press, make it clear that this is how it's going to be.
[x]Telepathy Rin. Is she alright? How much of this did she know about before?
-[x] Do you feel up to doing this?
[x] Discuss what exactly the UG wants out of this. We have a general idea, but having specifics wouldn't hurt.
[x]Ask Mami and Kirika to stay alert via telepathy in case Akiko decides to try something. Keep an eye out with your own grief sense.

[] Negotiations
- [] I'm willing to provide free cleansings on any filled seeds both parties have indefintely. In return, I want this extortion business to stop. I don't know why you are stockpiling this many grief seeds, Akiko, , but this deal should provide more than enough to satisfy your needs.
- [] In addition, all hostilities between Sendai and the Ishinomaki group, and for that matter, any other Magical girl, is to cease, effective immediately. There should not be a reason for there to be fighting with us providing infinite cleansings.
- [] Obviously, this deal is dependent on the well-being of all parties involved. I will be enforcing whatever agreement is reached from this meeting, and will not hestitate to take action against any aggressors.
- [] Are the terms sastisfactory or is there anything else that either party wants to add?

Bah, I really think that it would be best if we lay down the terms first, then let both sides add or raise objections if need be, because our powers are pretty much the only chance to have both sides walk away reasonably happy with the deal, but yeah, I suppose we should get what the University group really want before proceeding.
 
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Changing up Gerbils vote a bit.

[x] Ask the UG if they know of any other magical girls in the area being subjected to this tax.
[x] Ask Mami and Kirika to stay alert via telepathy in case Akiko decides to try something. Keep an eye out with your own grief sense.
[x] Politely but coldly explain to Akiko that her actions have made her unwelcome at the bargaining table. Rin will act as the spokesperson for her group, and will relay the conversation. We trust she doesn't have any objections to that. (Make it a statement not a question.) If she does press, make it clear that this is how it's going to be.
[x] Telepathy Rin. Is she alright? How much of this did she know about before?
-[x] Do you feel up to doing this?
[x] Discuss what exactly the UG wants out of this. We have a general idea, but having specifics wouldn't hurt.
 
Is there a reason we're not just asking Akiko for her side of things? I know I keep bringing it up, but is there something I'm missing that makes it an obvious non-option?

Any answer she gives will tell us something. Even if it's just a confirmation that she's hiding something it's better than the pure speculation re: her motives we've got right now.
 
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