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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Kinematics said:
Are we sure on that? I've seen various interpretations otherwise, so don't know the degree that we can rely on that.
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So far as Kirika's powers specifically or just meguca in general? Because it seems to take very little time to draw a weapon from outside transformation, but their powers seem unaffected. Homura had to transform because she didn't have the timestop power; her shield did. Also, in rebellion Mami is seen using a ribbon while untransformed, so I don't see any reason Kirika wouldn't be able to use an antimagic burst in the same way.
 
Kinematics said:
Are we sure on that? I've seen various interpretations otherwise, so don't know the degree that we can rely on that.
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Our grief powers still work perfectly fine while untransformed, it's just harder to work with. I don't see why it wouldn't apply to Kirika's power, since, like us, that ability doesn't rely on her having her weapon out.
 
Uh, Kirika was able to bring out her antimagic almost instantly. Look back at the timestop hunt. She had a split second to react to being pulled away from Oriko and she managed it.
 
Gadjo said:
I *almost* want Akiko to try and start some shit at this point, but hopefully she's not so stupid as to do that at this point.
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You should never underestimate the potential stupidity of another person. I hope you're right though. It would be a gigantic pain in the ass if she tried to snipe the meeting.

Her scouting out our sensing range doesn't exactly inspire confidence, either.
 
Gadjo said:
So far as Kirika's powers specifically or just meguca in general? Because it seems to take very little time to draw a weapon from outside transformation, but their powers seem unaffected.
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I'm mainly thinking about the resilience of the bodies. I'm expecting the transformed form to reinforce strength, speed, durability, etc. Of course even a full witch can be taken out with a good HomuBomb.
Muramasa said:
Uh, Kirika was able to bring out her antimagic almost instantly. Look back at the timestop hunt. She had a split second to react to being pulled away from Oriko and she managed it.
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It might have just been the way the scene was written, where Sabrina seemed to be sensing the build-up of the burst for a fair bit of time (even if this is on a combat time scale) before it occurred.
 
Strength may or may not be affected, but we do still see Kyoko and Sayaka leaping from building to building untransformed in Rebellion, so it's still at least superhuman. Speed seems to be affected in much the same way, but durability would logically still be the same, only with the soul gem on a ring rather than somewhere on the meguca's body.
 
Gadjo said:
Strength may or may not be affected, but we do still see Kyoko and Sayaka leaping from building to building untransformed in Rebellion, so it's still at least superhuman. Speed seems to be affected in much the same way, but durability would logically still be the same, only with the soul gem on a ring rather than somewhere on the meguca's body.
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So wait... if the soul gem is a ring while untransformed, and a meguca-specific piece of jewelry while transformed, when is it an egg?
 
Kinematics said:
Suspected it last time, confirmed this time. Akiko has got at least a rough handle on the limits of our senses, and is probably using the other two girls to test the exact limits. Also, in both cases Mami was the one to locate them. Sabrina is becoming too dependent on her grief senses, and is open to someone who can take advantage of that blind spot.
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To be fair, Mami is also very experienced. Sabrina has essentially been alive for a week. And our grief senses have enough range that anyone outside of them is unlikely to present an immediate, direct threat to us (obviously, teleporters like Sakura don't count in that dynamic).

The more concerning thing is why Akiko feels the need to make such an indirectly confrontational move at such a delicate time. Could be that she thought of it as something to do whilst she can only wait, or it could be that she's starting to consider Sabrina enough of a problematic meddler that she wants to be prepared to beat (or at least outmaneuver) Sabrina in a confrontation if need be.

Either way, Sakura (as a long-range teleporter) is the only one of the Sendai group that presents a significant threat to Sabrina directly. I seriously hope Akiko doesn't think she has a good idea of our capabilities based on what she's seen so far (after all, she's never seen us fight to kill or maim, nor has she ever had to actually face us in combat at all).

Also possible. We still haven't seen the Fukushima girls, and we know that they were inbound already.
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Are we sure about that? If they are already inbound, how are they getting here, and when do they arrive? Are they the group we heard about flying down? If so, we could give them a ride back in SA-001 for free (and shits and giggles).
 
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Sakura's a credible but manageable threat. Teleportation is a great weapon but Sakura herself seems a bit predictable. She likes attacking from above for instance. Seen when attacking Aki in Ishinomaki and Chouko in the UG. UG is skilled enough to avoid her on instinct. And plant girl predicted her movements and diverted her attacks with vines.
 
[x] Crasian01

Welcome to PMAS, where everything is brain damaged and the meta doesn't matter. :V
 
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SaltyWaffles said:
The more concerning thing is why Akiko feels the need to make such an indirectly confrontational move at such a delicate time. Could be that she thought of it as something to do whilst she can only wait, or it could be that she's starting to consider Sabrina enough of a problematic meddler that she wants to be prepared to beat (or at least outmaneuver) Sabrina in a confrontation if need be.
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To be fair, it's not obviously confrontational. On the surface, she's just staying back since we put a halt to the combat, and is just observing. You have to be a little paranoid to notice it.

However this is the third time she's had a chance to judge Sabrina's sensing abilities (fourth, if you count the building teleport mid-update), and the first time she can experiment to see if her estimates are correct.
 
Cannongerbil said:
Uhh, not exactly. Megucas still have full access to most of their powers when untransformed, and the durability of being a lich doesn't go away either. All being untransformed does for a meguca is make it harder to summon their weapon, and by extention locks away any weapon specific abilities such as Homura's timestop. Kirika's antimagic remains unaffected.

Hell, if anything, being untransformed actually makes a meguca less vulnerable, as their soul gems are in ring form and thus harder to hit.
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Firn might've changed it, but canonically, they need to transform to use the majority of their powers.
 
If you're worried about backstabbery, maybe we should start quietly playing some music? It's just about costless, and might help the mood. It's also
an excuse to have an unobtrusive, not apparently weaponized grief construct ready for that contingency. Something that lets us make music with the power of our mind will probably also let us generate incapacitating jet-engine noise (or single-digit-hertz infrasound at WARCRIMES decibels, for that matter), unexpectedly having both your eardrums implode should be at least momentarily incapacitating even for a meguca, and sound carries much better through water than air~ :drevil:
(It's amazing how much damage a plowshare can do, if you swing it hard enough). :tongue:

Also, a thought - how about we meet Akiko privately before negotiations begin in earnest, and ask to open a telepathic link between her, us, and one of our Grief Seeds? It'd be informative for her, definitely put her off balance, make our position make considerably more sense from her perspective - and her reaction will provide valuable information about her.
 
Going to go ahead and add a full paranoia section to mine, just because.

[x] Paranoia (spread out over time)
-[x] Keep an eye on Rin's reactions and behavior as everyone talks.
-[x] Ask Mami (telepathically) to enchant her teacup. See if we can detect the differences in it. If so, look for similar modifications in Rin's glasses.
-[x] Distribute grief balls unobtrusively around the area; shape to match the environment. Have to get them out of the way anyway.
-[x] Extract a grief marble and move it in Akiko's direction (though out of sight), to the limits of our control range. Determine if it can act as a relay for our grief senses. Possibly reshape as film or antenna, and grief-pulse echolocation.
--[x] If so, send remote marbles in various directions to increase our sensory range and watch for ambushes.
[x] Info gathering (Tone: Simply collecting facts; no pressure, but allow them to elaborate as desired):
-[x] What was the tax rate, and what conditions were attached to it?
-[x] Were there any other things you were charged for?
-[x] You said Fukui left. Did it seem like the main purpose of the tax was just to drive you out?
-[x] Are there any other grievances you want to bring up?
[x] Proceed with asking about Akiko
 
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...that's a little too much shadowderping, Kinematics. Even if Rin's glasses were somehow suspect, they were broken. And Rin isn't nearly good enough of a liar/actor to fabricate that slip about Sakura liking how Rin looks in glasses. Plus, Akiko never thought things would get to neutral negotiations in the first place. And finally, Rin is not the type to try anything, and if the glasses are part of some plan of Akiko's that Rin doesn't know about, Akiko would be rather stupid to actually try anything with them. Not only does she not want to risk Rin, but anything short of killing everyone at the negotiations (which would include Rin), she'd just be making a lot of dedicated enemies for no reason.
 
Eh, no one was voting for it anyway, despite its simplicity (vs the rather awkwardly wordy version Crasian has), so figured I'd tack on a bit of extra craziness for fun.

It's been a while since I've had a good Don Sabrina moment.
 
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