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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Godwinson said:
I'm really looking forward to the day when it finally clicks for her that Homura is a time-traveler and we're able to explain that (or that Homura decides she's comfortable with Sayaka knowing), because it means that Sayaka becomes the one person whom we can fully brief on everything.
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The third person we can fully brief on everything after Oriko and Kirika.
 
Torgamous said:
The third person we can fully brief on everything after Oriko and Kirika.
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Eh... you're right on a technical level for what I was focusing on, but Oriko and Kirika have other things that prevent them from being able to fully act on that information as our allies. Like, our team would have issues if we openly delegated negotiations with Meiji to Oriko, for example. And we can't really get Oriko's help in managing issues around and for Homura either.
 
Just to clarify about Airi and Iowa not being brought up: Yes, obviously Sabrina could have brought it up (you still can, I suppose?) and it could have gone either way I suppose? Sabrina chose not to because the question seemed to be more about enforcing against Clear Seed abuse, which Sabrina hasn't had to enforce yet.
 
Firnagzen said:
Just to clarify about Airi and Iowa not being brought up: Yes, obviously Sabrina could have brought it up (you still can, I suppose?) and it could have gone either way I suppose? Sabrina chose not to because the question seemed to be more about enforcing against Clear Seed abuse, which Sabrina hasn't had to enforce yet.
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Airi's doesn't count because she stole it rather than it being given to her?
 
BlueTwinkleToes said:
[] If we can find some alone time, discuss with Witchbomb'd members of our group about our theories of Witchouts
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Kaizuki said:
--[] You know full well that it would be tricky to ask for their best understanding of Meiji and Kyuedo in front of a room full of people given the various infohazards that tend to go hand-in-hand with extremely bad blood. That said, Sayaka knows everything, you would very much like the full story without having to make a big fuss here, and you're certain there could be a more private exchange without disrupting everyone.
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No alone time, damnit! We came into this expecting mind control!

Fine, I'll make a vote.

[X] Internal propopsal within Constelation. If everyone's okay with it, enact it with Chiyoda.
-[X] Discuss infohazard protocols. Our people know of the existance of infohazards and the members who don't know remain ignorant by choice, and that Sabrina and a few others in our party are fully informed.
--[X] In the interest of not infobombing anyone on either side, provide a grief tablet and stylus to each of the members of Chiyoda and our team.
---[X]Use multitasking to make what anyone writes on one tablet appear on the tablet of everyone who's cleared to read it, and apply obvious censors as appropriate so people not cleared know at least the general degree to which the problems relate to infohazards.
---[X] Summarize with Madoka and Hitomi over telepathy with material they're cleared for.
---[X] Use the tablets to find out their infohazard status and the infohazard status of the various other Tokyo groups, and how this fits in with the problems in Tokyo if at all.

[X] If infohazard status is sorted out, move on to alternate cleansing options and see if they expect they'll go down any easier.
-[X] Suggest cleansing trips, partially cleared seeds, and other lesser options as interim solutions and get a feel for where they feel like the tipping point is. Obviously don't commit to anything.
 
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BlueTwinkleToes said:
Fair enough, deleting for now.

[X] Discuss with MadoHito about how suspiciously neat her problem seems. Only these two groups and everything is fixed?
- [X] Also comment about the use of 'Neutralize', and how sketchy it sounds
[X] Ask Toshimichi what is the most amount of cleansing help they would be able to easily accept right now (grief seed exchange, cleansing visits, partial clear seeds, etc)
[X] Ask for her perspective about the problem groups. What exactly is the history between them
[X] Ask if we can also hear their side of the story, if only to potentially act as a neutral third party, with no history in the conflict
[X] If we can find some alone time, discuss with Witchbomb'd members of our group about our theories of Witchouts

New additions in bold, because we really need to talk about this.
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This,I think, is a better next step.

The other one is a bit more sledgehammer to the wall.

There is no need to do everything at once.
 
Firnagzen said:
"Loss and revenge drives people to extremes," Toshimichi says. "They have enough power to force through their will, given a free hand."
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What kind of loss, and what kind of revenge? I recall when we had far less information than we do now there was wild speculation that one or more groups found out about the witchbomb in the worst way possible, and that that information was suppressed within the wider Tokyo group.

Loss and revenge. Therein lies dangerous territory, you think, because it's almost certainly edging around things of a Witchy nature, so... you'll have to think on how you'd want to dig into the details, and whether you even want to do so now. It would be painfully obvious if you asked to speak privately, without Mami or the rest of your friends with you.
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Ah, there it is. I don't think we should leave it alone. If this 'loss' is something that would have been prevented by more access to cleansing, then... well, on the one hand it complicates things (they may be angry at us for simply not arriving soon enough), but on the other hand the idea of preventing future such incidents is something important to point out.

Angrygenius said:
This. This read to me entirely too much like "things would be so much easier if those groups just disappeared, wouldn't it?" Like she wants those groups gone, and I'm willing to bet my dignity and all the cash in the bank that it isn't only, or even mainly, because those two groups would seemingly start a war because of unlimited cleansing throughout tokyo.
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Or this is some kind of test, to see how we'd react to being presented with that kind of deal.

Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Again, we'd only hear their side, but "loss and revenge" is very open ended, and could mean many different things.
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The problem is that there's a significant chance that whatever it is involves something that we don't want the rest of our group hearing about.

Really, this whole thing might have been easier if we hadn't brought Mami [or anyone else who isn't fully aware of things].

Burned_Cookie said:
If there is witchy information to be had, and we are presented with it, and it does make their case, we would return from a one-on-one conversation with a suspected mind manipulator with a vastly different viewpoint than before, most likely in their favor.
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Do we really not have anyone here who knows? Why on earth didn't we bring Homura? Or Oriko? or... dammit, do any of our non-core-Mitakihara-group allies know, I honestly can't remember.

Firnagzen said:
Just to clarify about Airi and Iowa not being brought up: Yes, obviously Sabrina could have brought it up (you still can, I suppose?) and it could have gone either way I suppose? Sabrina chose not to because the question seemed to be more about enforcing against Clear Seed abuse, which Sabrina hasn't had to enforce yet.
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The point that we are able to hold our own against groups with no functional near-term limitations on their ability to use magic [hell, Sendai fits, too, with the enormous stockpile they were sitting on] is relevant to the spirit of the question, I think, and we could explicitly defend bringing it up on those grounds.
 
Yeah he left a like on one of my posts from six months ago.

To be clear I like this fact, it just surprised me a little.
 
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Nerevar said:
No alone time, damnit! We came into this expecting mind control!

Fine, I'll make a vote.

[X] Internal propopsal within Constelation. If everyone's okay with it, enact it with Chiyoda.
-[X] Discuss infohazard protocols. Our people know of the existance of infohazards and the members who don't know remain ignorant by choice, and that Sabrina and a few others in our party are fully informed.
--[X] In the interest of not infobombing anyone on either side, provide a grief tablet and stylus to each of the members of Chiyoda and our team.
---[X]Use multitasking to make what anyone writes on one tablet appear on the tablet of everyone who's cleared to read it, and apply obvious censors as appropriate so people not cleared know at least the general degree to which the problems relate to infohazards.
---[X] Summarize with Madoka and Hitomi over telepathy with material they're cleared for.
---[X] Use the tablets to find out their infohazard status and the infohazard status of the various other Tokyo groups, and how this fits in with the problems in Tokyo if at all.

[X] If infohazard status is sorted out, move on to alternate cleansing options and see if they expect they'll go down any easier.
-[X] Suggest cleansing trips, partially cleared seeds, and other lesser options as interim solutions and get a feel for where they feel like the tipping point is. Obviously don't commit to anything.
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...

...

...

You...

You understand that if Sayaka comes back from that and she's been messed with we'll know, and we'll be obligated to take it out of Chiyoda's hide, and they should know all of that full well, and we know that they know, and given those things you should know that what you're suggesting is just implausible, right?

I'm sorry, but you're the one with the burden to argue that this is remotely a reasonable concern, and I haven't the faintest how you'd even start.

Edit: on top of that we know full well what it looks like when somebody is subjected to the magic that's in play -- they have a hard time remembering details of the event in question. The only argument I'm aware of you being able to make here is that "Somehow they might have a different variation of this card up their sleeve and be able to ignore the enchantments we made and also get everything past us, Mami, and two or three different Meguca with analytic special powers, and also they're crazy enough that they are willing to risk getting caught by a group that outweighs them significantly."

I just don't see it, mate. Am I missing something?
 
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Kaizuki said:
...

...

...

You...

You understand that if Sayaka comes back from that and she's been messed with we'll know, and we'll be obligated to take it out of Chiyoda's hide, and they should know all of that full well, and we know that they know, and given those things you should know that what you're suggesting is just implausible, right?

I'm sorry, but you're the one with the burden to argue that this is remotely a reasonable concern, and I haven't the faintest how you'd even start.

Edit: on top of that we know full well what it looks like when somebody is subjected to the magic that's in play -- they have a hard time remembering details of the event in question. The only argument I'm aware of you being able to make here is that "Somehow they might have a different variation of this card up their sleeve and be able to ignore the enchantments we made and also get everything past us, Mami, and two or three different Meguca with analytic special powers, and also they're crazy enough that they are willing to risk getting caught by a group that outweighs them significantly."

I just don't see it, mate. Am I missing something?
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If you're kind of just looking at it like a stage hazard or something then, I mean, I can see you coming up with your objection, Nerevar. But that's not what we're looking at. You have to consider that for the events you're worried about to occur, a group of people has to decide to take the risks involved in the actions.




Godwinson said:
I'm really looking forward to the day when it finally clicks for her that Homura is a time-traveler and we're able to explain that (or that Homura decides she's comfortable with Sayaka knowing), because it means that Sayaka becomes the one person whom we can fully brief on everything.
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Yeah this. 'course I'd prolly word it "cuz then we'd finally have someone we can fully brief on everything" since I'd be perfectly happy with some other characters too, but like, same sentiment.
 
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Kaizuki said:
I just don't see it, mate. Am I missing something?
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Yes. You are missing something.

The fact that we went into this situation expecting mind control means our team is on alert for signs of mind control. Us going into a meeting away from the rest of our group, and switching off our phone so Madoka won't get witchbombed, will be triggering all sorts of worries in our team. Us coming out of that meeting with our opinion changed and unable to communicate what precisely it was that caused us to change our mind is going to trigger even more worries.

I'm not actually worried about us being mind controlled, Kaizuki. Not really. What I'm worried about is that we set up an expectation with our team that this was a risk. And since we've established that we're treating it as a risk, we shouldn't do things that make our team members worry.

How many times is Mami going to have to beg us to be more careful?

Sometimes we should avoid things that will look like risks to other people, even when we're perfectly confident we'll be okay, because we don't want to worry the people we love.
 
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If we're still going by the fresh meat allegory, is what we're doing now akin to watching a cow go into the butcher shop?
 
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