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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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You know, with how Sabrina asks it makes sense that many Magical Girls would be wary.
After all, the last individual they got something life changing from, who advertised it effectively as 'free', was QB.
So having something immediate it would cost them would likely help reduce the doubt they have about what Sabrina is like.
Additionally, someone who would still leave familiars to grow, in order to gain more grief seeds, is likely not the kind of person who should be trusted with that level of power.

asking for them to ensure they don't need to give QB can be tied to Grief Manipulation- they'dlikely accept more easily that Sabrina is benefiting by getting more Grief to manipulate.
If she has to show it off, then Sabrina should make something low key, with a small amount of Grief.
If further reasons for not giving them to QB are nessesary, throw it under the bus - "I'd like to ensure QB doesn't gain anything from anyone, especially as someone who gets you to sign a contract without Informed Consent"


As for why it works better - showing a way you benefit makes it more easily viewed as Enlightened Self Interest.

[x] ask for suggestions on how to improve the pitch


(Which would likely lead to at least one of the above points.)
 
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I'm also personally put off by the probability of mind altering magic being used to keep the peace. Even if it's for a good cause, I would infinitely prefer a violent and painful death to the notion of having my thoughts or memories altered and edited by another person.

It's horrifying in concept and I want to figure out whether she is or isn't using that so that we can force her to stop as soon as possible, because there is no such thing as a valid justification for such an act.

No not even the rehabilitation of violent criminals, you may as well suggest that those criminals deserve to be raped on a daily basis so far as I'm concerned. That is how horrifying I find it.
 
Chiyoda Group has a science guca (and some enchantment experts apparently), we have a science guca, and we are a true grief manipulator. Why are we still planning to use clearseeds, when this is practically screaming for a way for us to develop a new grief cleansing method that uses a tool we make to do what we do?

Doesn't require our help once it's made, could possibly be made once we have prototypes down using other grief manipulators (if they are boosted), and doesn't necessarily give girls all the power all at once (therefore putting a limit on instantaneous power, and the intensity of any one fight).

Also them getting to contribute in some way might make it seem less free (even if we don't demand they help, and just offer clear seeds as a stopgap).
 
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JIMI94 said:
Chiyoda Group has a science guca (and some enchantment experts apparently), we have a science guca, and we are a true grief manipulator. Why are we still planning to use clearseeds, when this is practically screaming for a way for us to develop a new grief cleansing method that uses a tool we make to do what we do?

Doesn't require our help once it's made, could possibly be made once we have prototypes down using other grief manipulators (if they are boosted), and doesn't necessarily give girls all the power all at once (therefore putting a limit on instantaneous power, and the intensity of any one fight).
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Developing an alternative will take time while the clear seeds are right here.
 
defenestrator said:
They may be the extreme end of it, but Iowa proves that not many teenagers high on magic and power have the Geneva Conventions on the forefront of their minds. Or internalized what turning into a witch would be like beyond a vague "very very bad".
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Iowa were explicitly noted as outlyers. We asked Nadia about the worst of the worst and their name was one of the first that came up. You can't make any generalizations about "not many" from the absolute worst people out there. The overwhelming majority of Magical Girls we've met have been good and decent people. All dealing with their own issues and traumas, but on the whole, they've been people we could and have become friends with. It's the system that's been responsible for the majority of the poor behavior we've seen, and every time we've gotten someone new out of that starvation mode, things have gotten better, not worse.
V01DRei said:
Additionally, someone who would still leave familiars to grow, in order to gain more grief seeds, is likely not the kind of person who should be trusted with that level of power.
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We've been leaving familiars to grow. Sure, it isn't because we're looking to harvest Grief Seeds, but we've been sufficiently negligent with our harshly defended territory we started hiring other people to do our hunting for us.

Beyond that, we have the luxury of not needing to make the awful choice of either we die or someone else does, but that's precisely the choice that Kyubey's system forces on people. Every Grief Seed on earth is the product of either death, or a fate worse than death. And I have a hard time judging people too harshly when they're in a kill or be killed survival situation.

There's a saying that you'll see a person's true character by what they do when they're despirate, but I think it's the opposite. You'll see a person's true character when they have the luxury of choice.
Spectral Waltz said:
I'm also personally put off by the probability of mind altering magic being used to keep the peace. Even if it's for a good cause, I would infinitely prefer a violent and painful death to the notion of having my thoughts or memories altered and edited by another person.

It's horrifying in concept and I want to figure out whether she is or isn't using that so that we can force her to stop as soon as possible, because there is no such thing as a valid justification for such an act.

No not even the rehabilitation of violent criminals, you may as well suggest that those criminals deserve to be raped on a daily basis so far as I'm concerned. That is how horrifying I find it.
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Witches are creatures of eternal suffering, their minds warped even more than such a memory erasure would cause.

The theory of what the mind magic was used for that I find the most likely is that it was to undo the council being mass witchbombed. We know the Witchbomb leads to grief spirals, and grief spirals are how Magical Girls turn into Witches.

I personally agree with you that a horrible death would be preferable to even relatively benign mind alterations done against my will, but there are fates worse than death in this universe, and a lot of least worst choices to be made in terms of how to deal with them.

And honestly, remember we have a pattern of forcably cleansing people's gems when they're grief spiraling. I'm not sure it's that different.
Redshirt Army said:
[X] Continue discussion
[X] In our discussion with the Osaki group, they mentioned that if *you*, the Chiyoda group, were to put your support behind a specific plan of action, it would most likely gain a plurality of votes. Would you say that was a roughly accurate assessment?
-[X] If it is: In that case, well, you know the situation here far better than we do. What would *you* like to see? We're willing to be pretty accommodating - we've gone out of our way to tailor our approach to address other groups concerns already.
--[X] Fill Chiyoda in on the relevant parts of your abilities as they come up as they propose a plan.
--[X] As Chiyoda proposes a plan, stay in touch with Madoka and Hitomi, and take their advice on what Chiyoda's choice of plan says about their prorities.
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I think I can live with this vote. @Torgamous I'm switching over, in case you want to switch over your proxy to me.

[X] Redshirt Army
 
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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I can't trust what I can't comprehend,
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We don´t need to.

There is no need to trust them with anything more than that they will stick to any agreements they make.

Very few nations actually trust each other because of the entire "many people inscrutable intent" issue writ large, yet international diplomacy has yet to collapse.

V01DRei said:
who advertised it effectively as 'free', was QB.
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He doesn´t actually. He advertises as "will have to hunt witches for the rest of your lives".

But your point about to good to be true still stands.
 
In many ways Sabrina's motivations and nature can be equally difficult (if not more so) to comprehend for an outsider. Her powers are unprecedented and terrifying and her motivations are easily in the realm of 'too good to be true' if you don't know her well or have been burned by grief controllers before. So far no one has tried to dig too deep into her background, but they're unlikely to find anything reassuring if they did. We depend on the trust of our friends and other meguca all the time when it comes to taking our intentions at face value.

I don't think it's a red flag for Chiyoda to expect the same. Toshimichi's 'secret' could be in the same vein as Sabrina having metaknowledge. It might not be something we should expect her to share with us unless it becomes critical or we become much closer.

In general, I think it's a bad idea to take an aggressive or suspicious stance towards Chiyoda to start. Being firm in wanting to provide cleansing / clear seeds is good, but Tokyo has been stable so far thanks to their work. That's not a small accomplishment IMO.
 
I am fully in favor of anything that doesn't rock the boat beyond removing grief seed scarcity.

It's not our business unless they make it, and as long as everyone is safe we really should keep our nosy nose out of it.
 
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