On the subject of Iowa, Toshimichi actually hasn't mentioned them yet—she know's we're the Constellation, of course, but does she know about them?
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- a Minecraft Rollercoaster
Hm, probamatic phrasing implying that we don't care about the usage of infinite magic for grudges, clarify that we undertand the problem, but are more concerned with the much more general problem of death by Grief seed starvation. Also, we should have a clause for the low probability, but present possibility of ignorance on the Lichbomb.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We knew that already, that's why we asked for her opinion on our offer instead of making the offer outright. We're going to be making the offer to all of Tokyo later. Her accepting now would be jumping the gun.
Okay I actually really disagree with where the discussion is going in it's framing of what we're here to do or what matters.
First to argue with the notion that what Chiyoda's hiding is the lichbomb. I've been looking over our interactions with Token Tokyo Girl, Ueda Noa, and there's every indication she knows the lichbomb.
And for Tokyo, we known this in regards to the witchbomb:
It might just be what Akane said:
Also I think that even though broad awareness of Clear Seeds might be there I don't think that they understand the specifics of how it changes our pitch. Before they would need to be in constant contact with Sabrina but with Clear Seeds as long as they're chill they could go years without her if they wanted to. I think the framing of the situation is still kind of on a more direct interaction with Sabrina level rather than having completely changed over to the mostly doing whatever front.
Sooo...!
I'm gonna make a vote!
[X] Continue discussion
- [X] Clear Seeds
[X] Try to gather detailed information about the various groups
[X] Watch Akane when Madoka and Hitomi instruct us to do things
First to argue with the notion that what Chiyoda's hiding is the lichbomb. I've been looking over our interactions with Token Tokyo Girl, Ueda Noa, and there's every indication she knows the lichbomb.
I would recommend rereading this part because we show Ueda several corpses in quick succession and she doesn't freak the fuck out like you might expect would happen if she hadn't known.
And for Tokyo, we known this in regards to the witchbomb:
But to be honest I don't think the Council's response needs to be seen through a witch or lich bomb framing.
It might just be what Akane said:
- Few people believe that we're telling the truth about how our powers work. They're probably waiting for the other shoe to drop.
- They don't believe we're motivated by helping them.
- There's a superwitch about to hit Mitakihara, this whole thing could be a set up to force you into fighting it.
- They think we might be trying to make them dependent on out goodwill. "Please ma'am may I have another cleanse please?"
Also I think that even though broad awareness of Clear Seeds might be there I don't think that they understand the specifics of how it changes our pitch. Before they would need to be in constant contact with Sabrina but with Clear Seeds as long as they're chill they could go years without her if they wanted to. I think the framing of the situation is still kind of on a more direct interaction with Sabrina level rather than having completely changed over to the mostly doing whatever front.
Sooo...!
I'm gonna make a vote!
[X] Continue discussion
- [X] Clear Seeds
[X] Try to gather detailed information about the various groups
[X] Watch Akane when Madoka and Hitomi instruct us to do things
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm going to try a bit of vote crafting.
[X] Continue discussion
//I'm still half convinced a big part of the problem is that they don't fully understand our offer, so I want to get a very basic explanation out so that the rest of the conversation can proceed in light of them understanding that.
[X] Explain Clear Seeds, how much cleansing each can offer and what we require in order to manufacture them.
-[X] Make it clear our direct continued presence is not needed to keep everyone in Tokyo cleansed, and there isn't a bottleneck that will force some groups to get access to cleansing before others.
-[X] We would prefer being able to give everyone Clear Seeds, since it means everyone stays fed longer, and frankly it's less work for us than regular cleansing trips, but we are willing to talk about lesser levels of assistance if that turns out to actually be politically necessary.
//Get the obvious information we're going to need for the bigger meeting
[X] Ask about the political situation
-[X] What sort of bad blood are we talking about? Do groups want one another dead?
-[X] Try to get a broad outline of the Tokyo groups.
-[X] How are opinions breaking down about what's already known about our offer?
//Make sure they know not to witchbomb our party and give them an opening to cover if there are any infohazard based issues they want to inform us about.
[X] Infohazards
-[X] Mention that our group has mixed infohazard status by choice, and confirm they have steps in place for infohazard management.
[X] Continue discussion
//I'm still half convinced a big part of the problem is that they don't fully understand our offer, so I want to get a very basic explanation out so that the rest of the conversation can proceed in light of them understanding that.
[X] Explain Clear Seeds, how much cleansing each can offer and what we require in order to manufacture them.
-[X] Make it clear our direct continued presence is not needed to keep everyone in Tokyo cleansed, and there isn't a bottleneck that will force some groups to get access to cleansing before others.
-[X] We would prefer being able to give everyone Clear Seeds, since it means everyone stays fed longer, and frankly it's less work for us than regular cleansing trips, but we are willing to talk about lesser levels of assistance if that turns out to actually be politically necessary.
//Get the obvious information we're going to need for the bigger meeting
[X] Ask about the political situation
-[X] What sort of bad blood are we talking about? Do groups want one another dead?
-[X] Try to get a broad outline of the Tokyo groups.
-[X] How are opinions breaking down about what's already known about our offer?
//Make sure they know not to witchbomb our party and give them an opening to cover if there are any infohazard based issues they want to inform us about.
[X] Infohazards
-[X] Mention that our group has mixed infohazard status by choice, and confirm they have steps in place for infohazard management.
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SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Honestly, I think you're off the mark. The problems Tokyo has seem to stem from trying to keep all the mages alive and violent conflicts to a minimum, without the benefit of our power or being small enough that everyone depends on each other for survival.
Throw in the lichbomb and witchbomb, and memory manipulation makes perfect sense—one person not handling it well could bring the entire group down.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Hmm. Just spitballing here, but:
[ ] You've mentioned that there's distrust that my abilities are genuine among some Council Members. Would you be willing to vouch for the veracity of my cleansing during the meeting, if I demonstrate it for you now?
[ ] You've mentioned that there's distrust that my abilities are genuine among some Council Members. Would you be willing to vouch for the veracity of my cleansing during the meeting, if I demonstrate it for you now?
Angrygenius
Professional Insomniac
- Location
- Florida
- Pronouns
- Him/He
Couldn't we do that during the meeting itself? A live demonstration might garner more trust than if we just show her now. We could even do it with one of her group members.
(Aw shit, I hope no one suggests too hard that Empress girl tries to get cleaned, I don't think the knowledge that she isn't a real meguca is public at this point)
I think we should respond directly to this. Something blunt like "Are those groups aware that this amounts to saying that people deserve to die, or at least take on a substantial risk of it?" - the only question is if we say it in front of everyone or try to bring it up privately.
You all have no idea how hard I'm resisting the urge to cackle. (You've actually correctly figured out, oh, about 95% of what's going on, but the last 5% is a whopper.)
And yes, I rarely make this particular kind of post, but I've decided I'll try and be a bit more responsive in thread other than just posting updates.
And yes, I rarely make this particular kind of post, but I've decided I'll try and be a bit more responsive in thread other than just posting updates.
Angrygenius
Professional Insomniac
- Location
- Florida
- Pronouns
- Him/He
blast flame
How far will we go if it means lighting the way?
- Location
- Perth, Australia
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Hmm, possible whoppers....
Maybe their minds have been altered such that not only are they not bombed, they cannot be bombed - they can't comprehend it. Someone could witch out in front of them and they'd go, "where'd my friend run off to and why is there a witch here now?"
/stupid theories
Maybe their minds have been altered such that not only are they not bombed, they cannot be bombed - they can't comprehend it. Someone could witch out in front of them and they'd go, "where'd my friend run off to and why is there a witch here now?"
/stupid theories
Angrygenius
Professional Insomniac
- Location
- Florida
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- Him/He
I'm like 90% sure those fucking red strings have something to do with those whoppers. Big, juicy Whoppers made with 100% beef.
Preferably without Tomato.
Preferably without Tomato.
- Location
- Illinois
Yeah I'm down with this. Hence the "engineering" bit I put up.
I don't think being so explicit is quite the right way to go for that end of things though. Like, I would prefer to basically go through hashing out whether there is just generally a way we can establish the mechanics of our offer and in doing so solve all these problems. Whether that's clear seeds or whatever else. I don't know that the vote I put up is the best way to approach that, I admit, although it's certainly a decent one.
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Burned_Cookie
Very tired girl.
- Location
- Plato´s cave.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/It/Its
A great counterpoint to being dependent on us is just not being dependent on us.
Seriously, all they need to do is continue hunting, but now with arbitrary amounts of magic, and not only will they not be dependent on us, they will be in a progressively better position.
If we ever went "and the next ones gonna cost you" they can just say no, except now they have months worth of griefseed just sitting around.
It is nothing but upsides, because we aren't creating a need ala opium, we are filing one, so as long as they don't give up their old sources they'll be fine, and if they are that worried pf course they won't.
Well except the dependency one squared, because now running out of grief isn't even all that bad from their perspective.
Probably the fact that shes trying really hard to be diplomatic and talk politics, which sets of any all ulterior motive detectors.
See above.
The logic just doesn't work out that way.
Unless they are concerned they are going to become used to a safer live and won't be willing to go back, which is silly, because that implies that they should also never eat anything but dry bread and water because theeey couuuld geeeet useeeed to foooood wooo scary.
- Location
- Illinois
Okay, hold on, whatever this last 5% is, it probably has to do with Toshimichi's magic-strings? Hm.
Looping, but not currently interacting.
Edit: I'm tempted to go blunt and directly ask Toshimichi what her magic is. We've explained ours, surely we are owed the same back?
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- Location
- a Minecraft Rollercoaster
What if Toshimichi is like Kazumi, created by the Tokyo Magical Girls to be a perfect leader, to harbour all the secrets that they can't themselves bear.
Edit: What if Tokyo was the real Asunaro city all along, essentially, what with the memory wipe of its members and an artificial leader.
Edit: What if Tokyo was the real Asunaro city all along, essentially, what with the memory wipe of its members and an artificial leader.
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Wait, what if it's just Toshimichi who doesn't know? How would she know—she doesn't have a soul gem. What if she's the one being kept in the dark?
She said "other mages and prospectives" earlier. What if she thinks magical girls are like her, and not their own system?
But no, she has to know, surely? Unless Kyubey is mindwiping her?
She said "other mages and prospectives" earlier. What if she thinks magical girls are like her, and not their own system?
But no, she has to know, surely? Unless Kyubey is mindwiping her?
I appreciate you coming in here to go hahahahaha at us it's very motivating.
Hmmmmmmmm... In no particular order, my theories
- Meiji and Sumida know about the brainwashing but don't know why.
- Chiyoda are actually pretty problematic faves and have been up to some mad science.
- Those strings lead not to anchor points around the city but to people being vampirically drained.
- Meiji knows about the witchbomb and is against what Chiyoda did to hide and is planning to tell everyone but slowly and separately, starting with their friends Sumida.
- Local Tokyo grief controller did some shit.
- The Tokyo magic is running on a razor thin margin of sustainability and they've been culling some meguca to keep everything from falling apart.
- Akane is Amaterasu *throws spaghetti at refrigerator*
Okay, draft vote, tear it to pieces, I won't cry much.
[X]Plan we're saving lives, morons
-[X]Consult with Hitomi, Madoka and Oriko—Hitomi was expecting to learn something from that question she told us to ask
-[X]Continue discussion
--[X]Table the 'bad blood' for now. We want to come back to that later, though.
--[X]Explain exactly what we are offering—cleanses, clear seeds, freedom from the tyranny of harvesting witches to survive, etc. Ask if we can give a demonstration.
---[X]We're doing this mostly for free. We don't want to coerce girls into fighting for us, but we do want to leave the world a better place. Saving people is our ulterior motive.
---[X]Emphasise the importance and purpose of Soul Gems. Not the witchbomb though.
-[X]Quid pro quo—we've explained our powers, ask Toshimichi to explain hers. Don't accept deflections.
Side question that didn't quite make it into the vote: how does Tokyo find enough witches to feed 27 teams? I know Tokyo is a major city, but all the major groups outside of Tokyo are starving and fighting each other to survive.
[X]Plan we're saving lives, morons
-[X]Consult with Hitomi, Madoka and Oriko—Hitomi was expecting to learn something from that question she told us to ask
-[X]Continue discussion
--[X]Table the 'bad blood' for now. We want to come back to that later, though.
--[X]Explain exactly what we are offering—cleanses, clear seeds, freedom from the tyranny of harvesting witches to survive, etc. Ask if we can give a demonstration.
---[X]We're doing this mostly for free. We don't want to coerce girls into fighting for us, but we do want to leave the world a better place. Saving people is our ulterior motive.
---[X]Emphasise the importance and purpose of Soul Gems. Not the witchbomb though.
-[X]Quid pro quo—we've explained our powers, ask Toshimichi to explain hers. Don't accept deflections.
Side question that didn't quite make it into the vote: how does Tokyo find enough witches to feed 27 teams? I know Tokyo is a major city, but all the major groups outside of Tokyo are starving and fighting each other to survive.
Architect Iront.
Verified Cosplayer, Verified Living Doll
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X]Plan we're saving lives, morons
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We explain our powers to everyone, whether or not they ask. They're directly relevant to our political goals, in Tokyo and in general. There's no room for quid pro quo there, and aggressively pressing for this even if she tries to deflect will burn goodwill that we might need for the meeting with the council.
I'm not sure everyone in Asunaro is lichbombed.
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- Location
- The state of Paranoia
- Toshimichi is actually puppeting many people throughout the city, possibly one member from each group other than Chiyoda.
- I suggest we put on our finest tinfoil hats.
Fake edit:
Oh wait, we're already wearing them.