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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Yes. THEN, with the patient (and the therapists) consent, maybe provide that if possible, so they can look stuff over if they want to. An interesting research idea to be honest.

One thing to note btw, is that Yuki has said she doesn't want to be a jailor, but she hasn't said she is unwilling to provide the jail (or at least the cells). I think she would be much more open to the idea of making secure areas to house people who are too 'cray cray' (to say the least) to just keep in an apartment, if they are staffed by adults/people who are more okay with being prison staff.

[X] Redshirt Army plus Lovely Freedom Star Protectors as the Sabrina suggestion for maximum braindamagetm.

Edit: Opps sorry didn't mean to @ you redshirt. was just using it as a sort of quick username lookup and forgot to remove the at symbol.
 
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Menthewarp said:
Because as anyone who has been to therapy can tell you, the hardest part is meaningfully communicating the traumatic events that shaped your suffering, because how can the therapist help unless they are on the same page, unless you truly believe that the therapist really understands you for real?
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If a therapist I chose to go to could do that, that would be pretty convenient. If someone else did that, it would be horribly invasive and unhelpful.
 
Yes. I think Menthewarp realized this, and has suggested we give this to the hypothetical therapist, for use with consenting patients. Would be lovely for anyone who wanted it.

But yeah, Utilitarianly, It is still probably much cheaper to have Yuki just supply the housing and let others do the actual prisoner work, than to do something way out of left field, especially when it would be something that is even more peripheral to our powers than witching and grief removal, which we should be spending that time on.

I also think Looking into Doppels, even if Firn Didn't make this quest with them in mind, would still be interesting. I bet Firn DOES have some cool ideas thought up for if we somehow manage to unlock that. I guess if we could make like, 'grief shock absorbers' to protect the soulgem from the sudden burst of energy from the soul gem filling all the way up, that might result in a doppel like situation. Really though if we are ever gonna do it, we probably need to do some sort of journey to the center of the soul to make a deal with the witch within, since I don't think we can do the other thing in good conscience due to the risk.

Mind you, talking to your inner witch is also probably super dangerous, but that is a more unknown quantity than than the thing that definitely crack pings your soul physically. Mainly I'd just like to read a battle story post to this:

Possibly we could start with making a witch item, like a journal (using enchanted grief incase this is a long trance sort of thing) that allows communication between us and our inner witch. Considering they may have a connection to our witchy powers, it might just work. Risk wise, mean words written down aren't exactly gonna be that dangerous, and it would certainly let Firn foreshadow/provide in story hints if they wanted to (doesn't necessarily have to be all that cogent if Firn doesn't want us jumping ahead too far).

@Firnagzen this wouldn't have to be something that breaks anything you don't want broken like that. You could even just have it work, but only provide responses when you want to, so as to make it not OP or otherwise cramp your style.

If we did get a line of communication going, we could then possibly strike a deal, or at least be able to understand them better if we wanted to do a Doppel sort of thing. Doppels just seem like too cool an idea to ignore, even if Magia record didn't do them like some would have liked. It would also be fitting the incubators never knew it could be a thing it we did it, since they would never be able to emotionally connect with anyone.

Edit: also depending on if Firn has any more steps in mind, Doppel might inform on anything else needed for dewitching. There also could be a similar but different effect from dewitching, since it would make a lot of sense for someone to be changed by the whole process even if maxing out on hope does let them become meguca again.
 
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Aranfan said:
(it was a good quest)
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Links? I can´t figure out what quest you are talking about. (This thread has been drowing me in old quests to read. Currently chewing through dismembering fest Sayaka Quest.)

Menthewarp said:
...can we give the Therapist the memory theatre device?
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Sure, if the therapist thinks it will be usefull and the patiants agree, I don´t see a reason no tto.

JIMI94 said:
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I think communicating with our "inner witch" might very well be deeply dangerous, because, as far as I understand it, there is no such thing. The witch is a deeply twisted and corrupted version of the meguca´s soul.

Therefore, you are either communicating with a future potential version of yourself, wich might do who knows what, or more likely you essentially force your soul to somewhat simulate the state it shall be in after witch out. Wich would be bad for a number of obvious reasons.

Not a risk I would think worth taking.
 
JIMI94 said:
But yeah, Utilitarianly, It is still probably much cheaper to have Yuki just supply the housing and let others do the actual prisoner work, than to do something way out of left field, especially when it would be something that is even more peripheral to our powers than witching and grief removal, which we should be spending that time on.

I also think Looking into Doppels, even if Firn Didn't make this quest with them in mind, would still be interesting. I bet Firn DOES have some cool ideas thought up for if we somehow manage to unlock that. I guess if we could make like, 'grief shock absorbers' to protect the soulgem from the sudden burst of energy from the soul gem filling all the way up, that might result in a doppel like situation. Really though if we are ever gonna do it, we probably need to do some sort of journey to the center of the soul to make a deal with the witch within, since I don't think we can do the other thing in good conscience due to the risk.

Mind you, talking to your inner witch is also probably super dangerous, but that is a more unknown quantity than than the thing that definitely crack pings your soul physically. Mainly I'd just like to read a battle story post to this:
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Dedolere: I am the Witch... The despairing self....

Though in all seriousness Sayaka summoned Octavia and Nagisa switched in and out of her witch and magical girl forms in Rebellion, so I guess something like that has some precedent outside of MagiReco.
 
besides, we could just use a journal that would have their response recorded. If this is even possible it would likely be because of a connection to our inner witch due to the nature of our powers. If she could mess us up with such a thing, that would mean we would be vulnerable to that when doing anything witchy anyway. Firn also said we would only witch out if the thread lost all hope, I'm not saying fill our soul with grief, or like, let her possess us or anything.

Make a journal that lets us write things to her in witch runes, which she can sense because she is us, and likely connected to our powers in some way that makes this possible at all, and the journal lets her respond if she (firn) so desires.
 
I'd blame us then, because that means we did exist before, and are Lady Mouldy Bum.

Also we could despawn it, and only make it and read/write in it when undersupervison. We would also use enchanted grief for this, so we didn't trance if it was expensive to do so.
 
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Torgamous said:
If we start blacking out and releasing the giant snake one of the founders of Mitakihara left in the sewer system, I'm blaming you.
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Huh. If you link this tangent with She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named...

Sabrina: "I must fight/befriend/have emotional breakdowns about what to do with the Voldemorts!"

Kyubey: "No, Sabrina. You are the Voldemorts."

And the Sabrina was a lich.
 
If nothing else, we should see if we can forma giant Birb to ride around on. I can't see what the harm in that would be. Could be relaxing.
 
To be honest, a lot of things we could do could have big repercussions, but if we hem ourselves in too much, we might find it hard to do anything. Firn has said that we won't witch out unless the thread gives up, so unless we do something that is blaringly obviously bad, I think the main issue is how to make Mami and Homura comfortable enough to not forbid it. If that requires us to be post Walpurgis Night, will that be a post quest epilogue thing?

if we get to properly explore it post Wally, we are mainly limited by making it so our friends dont get emotionally hurt by us doing something. If we do it, we schedule it with Homura with a basic premise for its usefulness, and define realistic limits for danger. Start small, and without even the intent of a familiar per se, and I doubt it would kill us, since we aren't doing something stupid like connecting to an active witch. Actual worst case is the thing doesn't listen to us and attacks, only to be execution shot by Homura in timestop.

TLDR find a reason to make a familiar, schedule with Homura so she can blow the nose of anything stupid enough to not obey, and start small. There should be no major issues then. Don't vulcan mind meld with an active witch, stupid (especially because it might also be considered cheating?)
 
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Burned_Cookie said:
Who cares! Unless that rule was filed in triplicate and handed in to the mad science review board we don't need to follow it anyways!
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Something something Witch mindwhammy griefspiral.

Yeah, we're not touching that again with a ten-foot pole unless we're in a situation where our allies both know what we're trying and are ready to snap us out of it when we start to spiral again.
 
@jmcdavid this was because we were attempting to link our mind (even if unintentionally) to an active witch, which has an immense amount of grief attached to it. This would be making one of our own, with no connection to an active or even dormant witch (besides ourself by virtue of being a magical girl), and after scheduling things with Homura, who can timestop and shoot anything we make if its dumb. This isn't remotely as stupid as what caused the whole incident, which was us trying to take a familiar from an active witch, in its barrier no less (not that this was a deciding factor, it was just a little cherry on top).

I would actually insist on people watching even if it was certifiably harmless, just so we could have some color commentary. Cool discoveries are best done with friends! The dangerous part was involving an active witch, especially in a combat situation. Likely anything that doesn't sound stupid on its face that we can do without any witches or foreign familiars around is probably safe enough so long as we use enchanted grief to prevent trance/extend our ability slightly and have time stop gunner supervision and permission.

Edit: again, we did something in a rush in the middle of combat, didn't tell others, and involved an active witch (three strikes, yeerrout!). This is why things went bad. In a non combat situation, with a minder who we trust (Homura, for sheer utility and skill and nerve), with no witches or foreign familiars involved, there is a distinct limit to what we can fuck up, since our powers just flat out don't let us do things we can't do, and we aren't gonna trance for very long if hHomura slaps us. No vast ocean of grief to bum us out. Maybe a beastie decides to not obey us, but that we solve with violence easily. Considering even the worst case scenario was we got an influx of grief, we will be prepared that this time by actually doing the bare minimum of having someone waiting in the wings, and Homura can just stop time, coldcock us, and cleans us with a clear seed.
 
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Mossconfig said:
Right now we need to infringe on Yuki's hospitality, forcing our ally to be our jailer. Depowering/power suppression allows us to explore treatment options outside of Yuki's claimed territory.
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We can explore options outside Yuki's claimed territory already. Indeed, that's one of the big items we're looking into in our meeting tonight. We've already got anti-magic manacles for power suppression. Muggle jailers should be perfectly capable of holding them once we get them actually read in on what's going on and set up some due process.

Because the main reason we're relying on Yuki's claimed territory isn't that we can't contain them quasi-conventionally. The problem is that doing that would mean stuffing a bunch of teenage girls in a basement off the grid somewhere and that looks really bad to the muggle authorities.
JIMI94 said:
This isn't remotely as stupid as what caused the whole incident,
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No. It's way stupider. Word of Firn is that our Witch is an ontological threat on the same level as Madokami, Homufer, and Ultimate Gretchen. We are the last person who should be experimenting with quasi-witching out for super powers.
 
@Nerevar I'm talking about the familiar testing now. You have a point with the witch thing, so im dropping that like a phat beat but the familiar thing should be fine. If you don't think so feel free to skip the next paragraph and to the next. If you mention that we totally busted our trust credit card with that I agree, and think that even if we could we should probably wait until after wally if there is quest after that so that we don't hurt our friends with stress.

We pretty much did as badly as could be expected with it the first time, so considering we would actually be planning it this time, it wouldn't really be a big risk, besides a headache. The main reason we wouldn't is because we fucked up the first time and nearly made everyone shit their pants, and so would give them freakin nam flashbacks. So we might have to wait till after we find Waldo and clean her clock. If Firn lets us continue the quest after that.

Besides that if you don't think it is worth it, what would be some good things to do? It should at least be safe(ish) to make a human sized peace of enchanted grief and let it plumb (or whatever the sound effect was) to it to see if it does something with it. We've already done it with a smaller amount with no harm, So I can't see the issue. Possibly see what physical effects we can have on non grief objects using witchy magic?
 
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JIMI94 said:
Besides that if you don't think it is worth it, what would be some good things to do? It should at least be safe(ish) to make a human sized peace of enchanted grief and let it plumb (or whatever the sound effect was) to it to see if it does something with it.
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What we should be doing science-wise is finding out what happens when we release a significant amount of Grief all at once. It's a lingering question that's been there since almost the very start of the quest. We know when we released a small amount, it was trying to coaless into something, but we have no idea what. We convinced Homura to agree to spot us when we ran this experiment in case what comes out of it is dangerous, but when one possibility is wraiths with their attendant grief cubes, I want to know for sure.

That said, I've got no objection to using a human-sized mass of enchanted grief in our de-witching experiments. That is also a very worthwhile use of our science time. Certainly more so than risking Deledore. (Familiars grow into witches. If we create a familiar, I'd be very concerned about it growing up into our witch.)
 
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@Nerevar oh hell yeah I forgot about that for s second. Can we pencil a scheduling of that into the current vote @Redshirt Army has since we have Homura here, and we don't know what we will stuff into our bloated schedule instead if we don't now? I really really really wanna do that, since it is totally something we already have permission from Homs to do, and is super relevant to making alternative grief ablation sources.

Seriously, there's no disadvantage to a quick scheduling of it.

Edit: Oh yeah, you have a point. Our familiars might also be pretty fucking OP too, so it might not be so simple. Consider the whole thing retracted. I'm really all in for the wraith cube production!
 
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We are sadly not in science time just now. We're in emergency response time, for an event that interrupted social time. I'm good with trying to schedule science time, but that's something we probably ought to do internally since Sabrina's the one with the massively overfull schedule. We know Homura's schedule. (Wake up, go to school, stalk her crush, repeat. Maybe not need to wake up because the stalking got in the way of sleep again.)
 
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K. I'll look up some good times in the planner. How much time you think we should dedicate to it? an hour with 30 minutes transit total?
 
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