*squints*

This is basically a tacit admission from kyouko that she's scared. Obviously, she's not actually scared of getting literally killed, her fears are less founded in fact and more of emotional uncertainty. I don't think your responses are really taking that into account here.

"You really hurt her when you left?" "Mami is afraid of being alone?" How the hell are these things going to reassure Kyouko at all in this situation?
 
*squints*

This is basically a tacit admission from kyouko that she's scared. Obviously, she's not actually scared of getting literally killed, her fears are less founded in fact and more of emotional uncertainty. I don't think your responses are really taking that into account here.

"You really hurt her when you left?" "Mami is afraid of being alone?" How the hell are these things going to reassure Kyouko at all in this situation?

Yeah, that's my read in her, too.

She might not think her concern about Mami killing her is as utterly ridiculous as it sounds to us, but the most important issue here is that she feels shame and guilt. She basically tried to suicide by Mami, and when she didn't kill her, she ran away and didn't look back.

Facing the results of her actions must be fucking terrifying to her.

What if Mami wants nothing to do with her? What if she hates her?

What if she doesn't? How do you reconnect with a friend you've been horrible to in order to get her to kill you?

My advice would be to point out that no matter what, if she doesn't face Mami, it will haunt her for the rest of her days. That she made a mistake that hurt a person she cared about and needs to own it, not to run and hide from it. That Sayaka here is kinda cute, and you're tired of organizing their dates in another part of the city just because Koko is a chicken.

well, maybe not the last part.
 
I think the best way to handle this is with a mixture of seriously addressing her underlying concerns, but also lighthearted humor.

So yes, definitely that last part :V


What I'm thinking is that even if we attempt to reassure her, the more we play it up as some big important thing, the more it feels like a big important thing and thus the scarier it is to confront. Otoh, we can't just casually make a joke out of her very real and terrifying feelings. We need to do both in equal measure.


Edit: I think telling Kyouko to hide behind Sabrina could be an actual valid thing to include in the vote, as long as it's not the entirety of it
 
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Let me throw out a draft of a vote that I think is worth consideration on the grounds just discussed:

[] Give Kyouko a reassurance that sounds straightforward and matter-of-fact even though it's a reassurance (because she's a tsun)
-[] Mami misses her and wants her friend back
-[] If Kyouko wants to meet Mami and talk to her, you don't see any obstacles
-[] If asked, freely admit that you would like them to reconcile
Edit: changed vote
 
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[X] "Did you know that Mami's greatest fear is being all alone in the world?"
-[X] "She misses you terribly. She always has."
--[X] "Just stand back and watch as she stands there trying not to A: break down sobbing because you are there, and B: hug you till your ribs crack."
 
Hi! I just caught up and thought I'd join in. I feel like spitting out Mami's greatest fear is a bit intrusive, so I'd prefer to leave it more along the lines of "She misses you." If Kyouko actually wants to do this, I don't feel like we should try quite that hard to sell it, especially with something that she might construe as a guilt trip.

[] Explain the situation to Kyouko without pushing her to do anything in particular
-[] She misses you
-[] If you want to do this, it will work out fine
Edit: new vote
aje corpu!
 
You know, after sobering up, I had another horrifying thought

If Sayaka is indeed an angel
Depending on how much she remembers, she might be as good a combatant as Kyouko
Her progressing so fast in melee isn't the result of catching on
It's her slowly stopping to pretend she sucks
And that means that yes, Sayaka totally did get us to organize her playdates with Kyouko and even made us pay for it

...
If she really is an angel, I'm voting to call her Auntie Sayaka in retaliation
 
You know, after sobering up, I had another horrifying thought

If Sayaka is indeed an angel
Depending on how much she remembers, she might be as good a combatant as Kyouko
Her progressing so fast in melee isn't the result of catching on
It's her slowly stopping to pretend she sucks
And that means that yes, Sayaka totally did get us to organize her playdates with Kyouko and even made us pay for it

...
If she really is an angel, I'm voting to call her Auntie Sayaka in retaliation

Are we dealing with Galaxy Brain Sayaka? :V
 
There's that bit in Rebellion where Ocktavia is going toe-to-toe with Homulilly. Angel!Sayaka would be sandbagging a lot just by never breaking out the armored battle mermaid kaiju.
 
Okay, got yet another vote. This one, if it's used, can be used to determine if we need to drop the Metabomb on Kyouko.

[X] "Whoa whoa whoa, what do you mean kill you? Mami's way too kind to do something like that!"
-[X] If it's related to how Kyouko left Mami, flick her on the forehead. "Now you're being silly. The only way Mami could even hurt you is if she breaks your ribs by hugging you too hard."
-[X] If Bestgirl is remembering Mumi shooting out her Soul Gem, telepathy Homura and prepare to go meta.

Changing my vote because I kind of want to know whether or not Kyouko is experiencing some memory bleedover here.
 
[x] Mami would welcome you back. I'm sure of it.
-[x] Whether your ribs will survive the experience, I'm less than certain.
--[x] ... have been giving her lots of practice hugging you know, you may want to prepare.
 
[X] What do you mean... Ah. I see.
-[X] While there might be some lingering... 'negativity', I'm sure it won't come to that. The biggest physical risk Mami poses to you is that she might squeeze a little too hard when she hugs you.
--[X] You guys will be okay. I'm sure of it. :)


Yes the smile is part of the vote. Fite me.


Edit: ok so my reasoning. Kyouko expects Mami to hold a grudge. I don't want to dismiss her concerns out of hand, she might not believe us, or appreciate it if we're too cavalier about something that was very important to them both. However, I want to emphasize that they both want to reconcile. As long as they make the attempt, they can move past whatever lingering regrets or buried resentment they might feel to become friends again.

I guess I could have just said all that straight out, but I think she knows it, and is really just looking for support, which I'm trying to provide by being lighthearted instead of giving a lecture.

The initial surprise is to show that such an outcome is unthinkable. "Why the hell would you expect that?!?", Followed by the understanding that she's just worried and overstating the grudge she expects Mami to have. "Ah, I see, that's what you really mean."

Next is me not dismissing her fears out of hand. I agree that there might be something there. Her fears are not completely baseless. But the emphasis on the word might is to indicate that we feel it's unlikely. 'negativity' is also in quotation marks as a broad catch-all for, well, narratively feelings. Resentment, regret, loneliness. But I use that in place of something more concrete line a grudge because we're fairly certain that the grudge Kyouko is expecting doesn't exist.

The rest of the vote is pretty self-explanatory. Lighthearted reassurance and support.

Ok, that's all for now folks, take it or leave it idc I'm out.
 
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"Well, for starters, you can hide behind me."

Sociaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal...

I'm with trying to reassure her first, without dismissing her concerns or being not completely serious. Or talking up her past mistakes, or whatever else would make her feel worse. I'll uh, get back to you if I figure out what vote I feel actually does that, I'm still reading and thinking.
 
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Maybe starting with something like, "After what you did, Mami thinks that you hate her forever and I suspect that you think that she hates you for what you did, in the same way. But neither of you actually hate the other, right? You both still want to be friends, but neither of you want to make the first move. You're both afraid that it will amount to nothing but pain and rejection. I assure you, she feels the same way and would gladly welcome you back."
 
It occurs to me that rather than just assurances that this meeting will go well, she also want actual advice on how to handle this first meeting.

As in, what to actually do. Aside from the 'hide behind me' joke, I'm struggling to pull together good advice into coherent sentences. So uh, any ideas on that front?
 
Hi! I just caught up and thought I'd join in. I feel like spitting out Mami's greatest fear is a bit intrusive, so I'd prefer to leave it more along the lines of "She misses you." If Kyouko actually wants to do this, I don't feel like we should try quite that hard to sell it, especially with something that she might construe as a guilt trip.
I concur with this. Bringing up Mami's loneliness makes it feel too much like a guilt trip or emotional blackmail.

Personally, I'd be more direct in answering Kyoko's query. That Mami misses her is going to be pretty self-evident when they meet anyway. So I'd go with something along the lines of:

[] Make sure she knows you're coming in advance. So she doesn't accidentally shoot you by mistake.
- [] Bring some food, preferably cake. Preferably one big enough for Sabrina to get a decent share of too.
- [] And/or some baking goods, so that Mami can provide cake.
- [] And maybe a handkerchief, just in case she starts crying.
- [] If anything goes wrong, we guarantee to provide swift and prompt extraction. After all, we are able to move at arbitrarily high speeds at a moment's notice. Caveat: We make no guarantees as to which of the girls we shall move to extract.
 
Yeah, I don't like revealing Mami's greatest fear so casually right now, even if it's an important conversation. Just removing it doesn't seem to change much anyway:

[] "Did you know that Mami's greatest fear is being all alone in the world?"
[] "She Mami misses you terribly. She always has."
-[] "Just stand back and watch as she stands there trying not to A: break down sobbing because you are there, and B: hug you till your ribs crack."

Could add something in there with Mami just being lonely in general but especially missing Kyouko, but to be honest I think the situation is simple and being as straightforward as possible here is the best solution.

Just thinking on it actually, even on Homura's second timeline Mami and Kyouko had already made up (as they were together when Mami was Witchbombed and killed Kyouko) or at least could work together as a team, so resolving this can't be too difficult or that couldn't have happened, I would wager.

...we probably could have asked for advice on this from Homura couldn't we? She's probably experienced dozens of Kyouko/Mami reunions and must know the different paths they can take and respective catalysts.

Well, at least we can check with her after this.
 
So, I've just reread the last conversation we had with Kyouko, where among other things we meta-bombed her. It might be a very good idea to reread that conversation to see what we'd discussed and how things went.

As for my vote...

[X] Briefly and obliquely reference the meta-bomb portion of your previous conversation as an opening.

No sense trying Kyouko's patience more than we need to, so make it brief.

[X] You know that if things had gotten bad enough that Mami had actually wanted to kill Kyouko, she would be dead, and then Mami would be too shortly afterwards, because it would kill her to do that to a friend.

This is going to hurt, but it needs to be said.

[X] You also know how the fight started, and based on what you've seen with how Kyouko has acted with Yuma, you're pretty damned sure that the things that were said to start that fight between Mami and Kyouko wouldn't be said again.
- [X] You can understand why it happened, and beyond that you can understand why Kyouko has hunted the way she has, as a matter of pure survival.

Because the canonical-to-PMAS reason that the fight started was Kyouko spitting out an especially nasty version of her food-chain speech to Mami, specifically knowing it would cause a fight, because Kyouko wanted to punish herself by cutting away at any friendships she might have had left to console her after the death of her family. (Or she was trying to commit suicide-by-cop, so that she could be reunited with her mother and sister, rather than doing the deed herself which would see her going to the same place her father did. Which makes the "There's a place for people like me" line all the more worrying.)

[X] So your plan is that if Kyouko goes through with agreeing to this meeting, you're going to fully explain your understanding of why the fight happened to Mami -- you've avoided doing so until it was necessary because bringing up their estrangement hurts Mami -- and do your utmost to make sure that the topic of the fight is utterly obsolete. At that point, so long as Kyouko doesn't deliberately try to pick a fight, that's all you'd need to do.
- [X] And that if somehow you're wrong about this, and Mami launches into an unprovoked attack on Kyouko after agreeing to meet for some inscrutable reason? You'll intervene to stop it, and you're pretty sure that Sayaka and Homura would too.

There. A concrete plan of action beyond simply reassuring Kyouko that everything will be sunshine and rainbows, just because. That the plan will work because Sabrina has cheats for this topic, while also making it clear at the same time that Sabrina wasn't simply told how the fight happened, that part of her weirdness means she knows how it happened... and that she's still trying to reach out to Kyouko anyways, despite her trying her damnedest to come across like a would-be serial killer.
 
[X] Godwinson

I think this plan is the best so far. It's a solid course of action and it's good to continue the theme of honestly addressing Mami's issues with the people who have beef with her over retreating into sappiness.

As far as additions or other points go, it might also be worth considering that Mami in other timelines did what she did because of what she learned and lost in the same moment. Both her friends and also the thought that there was any justice to her actions. (Because even if Mami herself thinks its only a ruse to gather friends, I think her actions make it clear that it really does matter to her.) And, notably, that that hasn't happened here. If anything, the likes of Homura and Kazumi are the opposite case; the people she once knew are coming back into her life. And likewise her girlfriend has some grand cause she believes in --- while she acts consistently as someone who truly believes in helping people --- even if Mami doesn't know the details yet.
 
[X] Godwinson

Hi! I just caught up and thought I'd join in. I feel like spitting out Mami's greatest fear is a bit intrusive, so I'd prefer to leave it more along the lines of "She misses you." If Kyouko actually wants to do this, I don't feel like we should try quite that hard to sell it, especially with something that she might construe as a guilt trip.

Welcome to the insanity that is this quest
 
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