The golden ending sounds kinda like uninteresting wish fulfillment. i get wanting to help the meguca, but do we really plan to try to make this a story about forming a utopia with our super awesome self insert peggy sue magic powers?
 
as opposed to anything else? certainly, if control is sabrina's flaw, you can understand that seeking to control the whole world and remake it in her image is . . . a bit much? there's lobbying and trying to fix people's problems, but changing the whole world is something i don't think we could diplomance our way through. sabrina can help people, but fixing the world would require her to take a pretty belligerent path. shouldn't she, yknow, respect people's autonomy?
 
The golden ending sounds kinda like uninteresting wish fulfillment. i get wanting to help the meguca, but do we really plan to try to make this a story about forming a utopia with our super awesome self insert peggy sue magic powers?

I mean, the narrative kinda seems to be skewing towards the assumption that no, despite having super awesome edgy powers Sabrina can't change everything by herself, so she needs friends and comrades in order to accomplish that. Also, fucktons of time, so we probably won't see it until the distant "Where are they now?" five years later epilogue, if even then.
So for now we kinda want to survive Walpurgisnacht and maybe make life less shitty for the immediate Meguca population of Northern Japan?

If you have some different goals in mind, please do share.

Edit: eh, okay, I've read your answer and I don't know what to say.
 
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The golden ending sounds kinda like uninteresting wish fulfillment. i get wanting to help the meguca, but do we really plan to try to make this a story about forming a utopia with our super awesome self insert peggy sue magic powers?
That's been the idea from the beginning. With the catch being that actually doing that is way harder than any fixfic typically makes it out to be, absurd powers or not.

This is a game after all, not just a fic. Aiming for the biggest win condition possible is pretty fun.
 
as opposed to anything else? certainly, if control is sabrina's flaw, you can understand that seeking to control the whole world and remake it in her image is . . . a bit much? there's lobbying and trying to fix people's problems, but changing the whole world is something i don't think we could diplomance our way through. sabrina can help people, but fixing the world would require her to take a pretty belligerent path. shouldn't she, yknow, respect people's autonomy?

This would be a good point if this wasn't a total and complete misrepresentation that absolutely no one in the thread is trying to do. Sabrina's agenda is to use her powers and knowledge to network out to all Magical Girls so she can give them the resources and freedom to not be dependent on Kyubey's system for basic fucking survival, so that the real problems can be addressed and done away with as a global community.
 
Actually
I have a science idea
The first limitation for dewitchification on an industrial scale is the time it takes to empty the Seed off from Grief, right?
Because they perceive the Grief as the source of sustenance, so they cling on to it
My idea is to make them vomit the Grief out all at once
For that we just need to start the clearing as usual, and then we show them a phot of Sayaka and Kyouko acting disgustingly cute together

So you see
The first step on the road to mass dewitchification is, unsurprisingly, hooking SayaKoko up together, just as expected
Just not for the reasons any of us had thought of
 
We really do need to do more science. Not just with grief science but with magic in general. Get a more solid grasp on this emotional energy stuff. Cause knowledge is what we need in order to do more.
It would be pretty sad if your OC Hiriko, manages to experiment more with false grief bending than Sabrina is currently doing. So yeah, the story should have Sabrina experiment more.
 
Actually
I have a science idea
The first limitation for dewitchification on an industrial scale is the time it takes to empty the Seed off from Grief, right?
Because they perceive the Grief as the source of sustenance, so they cling on to it
My idea is to make them vomit the Grief out all at once
For that we just need to start the clearing as usual, and then we show them a phot of Sayaka and Kyouko acting disgustingly cute together

So you see
The first step on the road to mass dewitchification is, unsurprisingly, hooking SayaKoko up together, just as expected
Just not for the reasons any of us had thought of
Dewitchification hmmmmm? I'd say time to go to Asuruno and improve upon the Kazumi method of tricking grief seeds into establishing connections with clone human bodies.
 
@RobertAkio
doubleposting isn't the way to handle things in a forum my friend. i suggest you collapse those posts together into one post.

Where did you pull 'control the whole world' from? Because this...



...is what has been going on the whole time from what I've been reading.
i interpreted that from from this post. Emphasis mine. I feel like seeking to change human behaviour and society is pretty authoritarian and in-line with "seeking too much control".
As a side note, the "better World" of the Golden Ending isn't available without changing human behavior somehow. That isn't strictly Magic territory, the root of all human society is in communication and social functioning.
 
And I'm still confused.

If you change people's environment or material conditions, then their behavior will change. No external control is needed.

This is the plan with the clear seeds and free cleansing for all. Change the material conditions imposed on magical girls so that they are no longer required to be at odds with each other by their requirements of their existence. The work of creating actual unity comes from voluntary cooperation to follow afterwards and be built during this transitory stage.

Again, no imposition is necessary.
 
@RobertAkio
doubleposting isn't the way to handle things in a forum my friend. i suggest you collapse those posts together into one post.


i interpreted that from from this post. Emphasis mine. I feel like seeking to change human behaviour and society is pretty authoritarian and in-line with "seeking too much control".
Eh heh. Sorry. I had just responded to my friends post, then saw one that mentioned dewitching, and felt I had to post a thing for there as well. Which of course, led to me mentioning Kazumi magica again.
 
@RobertAkio
doubleposting isn't the way to handle things in a forum my friend. i suggest you collapse those posts together into one post.


i interpreted that from from this post. Emphasis mine. I feel like seeking to change human behaviour and society is pretty authoritarian and in-line with "seeking too much control".

Do you understand that the entirety of the Meguca world is shackled by the fact that they have to hunt Witches to survive, and basic subsistence is unsustainable by design? That Kyubey actively orchestrates an environment where girls have to kill each other and Familiar-farm if they want any sort of future?

That with Clear Seeds, literally all of that magically goes away?
 
The issue with the Meguca system is that its fueled BY magical girls becoming witches. At some point Kyubbey when he first arrived made a girl into a magical girl in a world WITHOUT witches. She become witch number one and was then hunted by magical girl number 2 who becomes the next witch and so forth.

The system is so circular you can see the curve. For the rest of humanity they could develop ways to make resources more efficiently - farming etc. Magical girls can't really do that over the long term. Even leaving familiars to grow into witches only lengthens the useful harvest period.

You thus get a system that is stuck in a literal hobbesian hell where life is nasty, brutish and short.

With clear seeds this is solved... partly but now everyone is dependent on a new resource - clear seeds. Sabrina then has to balance the ethics of letting magical girls witch out due to not being able to cleanse with the fact that a clear seed allows a magical girl to use her powers FAR more aggressively.

A simple Wulfenbach esque policy of 'don't make me come over there' suffices for now in terms of oversight. What we need to do is establish norms of behavior. I think for the near and even medium term the norms won't stop girls fighting but hopefully can ensure things like keeping collateral damage down, not bringing civilians into the mess and so forth.
 
So what you're saying is we need to establish the Seven Laws of Magic and rebrand the Tokyo Council as the White Grief Council.
And then we need to meet with the Incubators and write down the Unseeyou Accords, in which we, the signatory, promptly unsee the fuck out of Incubators so hard they'd better not be seen again within twenty thousand light years of the Solar System, or else.
 
So what you're saying is we need to establish the Seven Laws of Magic and rebrand the Tokyo Council as the White Grief Council.
And then we need to meet with the Incubators and write down the Unseeyou Accords, in which we, the signatory, promptly unsee the fuck out of Incubators so hard they'd better not be seen again within twenty thousand light years of the Solar System, or else.

... I was thinking we just have God Empresses Madoka and worship the Mamiossiah
 
Assume the theoretical end goal is dewitching being cracked, and creating some alternative to clear seeds that doesn't rely on witches, which we are capable of distributing to every magical girl in the world. That's not the only possible outcome but it seems like what we're aiming for if we want dewitching to be a practical thing. All witches are eventually re-humaned, and at that point magical society as something separate from the rest of society loses most of its meaning. There isn't an enemy to fight against and there isn't a resource to fight each other over, magical girls could just do whatever they wanted with their lives and go their separate ways. In that scenario I don't see there being an organization that all magical girls belong to at all. Some would belong to whatever organization distributes the cleansing item, if it's a consumable and not some passive worldwide system, but that's more of a weird pharmaceutical company than a world government or commune. Get your delivery of grief pills twice a week and otherwise enjoy having unlimited superpowers.
 
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Assume the theoretical end goal is dewitching being cracked, and creating some alternative to clear seeds that doesn't rely on witches, which we are capable of distributing to every magical girl in the world. That's not the only possible outcome but it seems like what we're aiming for if we want dewitching to be a practical thing. All witches are eventually re-humaned, and at that point magical society as something separate from the rest of society loses most of its meaning. There isn't an enemy to fight against and there isn't a resource to fight each other over, magical girls could just do whatever they wanted with their lives and go their separate ways. In that scenario I don't see there being an organization that all magical girls belong to at all. Some would belong to whatever organization distributes the cleansing item, if it's a consumable and not some passive worldwide system, but that's more of a weird pharmaceutical company than a world government or commune. Get your delivery of grief pills twice a week and otherwise enjoy having unlimited superpowers.

I mean, there's also a small chance of the Magical Girl Society becoming a secret cabal of transhumanist masons, secretly leading the humanity from behind the curtain but having to openly declare their existence on the onset of a human-alien war.
Also something something Sabrina is a prophet of Goddess of Tea, the Eternal Empress Mami.
 
Assume the theoretical end goal is dewitching being cracked, and creating some alternative to clear seeds that doesn't rely on witches, which we are capable of distributing to every magical girl in the world. That's not the only possible outcome but it seems like what we're aiming for if we want dewitching to be a practical thing. All witches are eventually re-humaned, and at that point magical society as something separate from the rest of society loses most of its meaning. There isn't an enemy to fight against and there isn't a resource to fight each other over, magical girls could just do whatever they wanted with their lives and go their separate ways. In that scenario I don't see there being an organization that all magical girls belong to at all. Some would belong to whatever organization distributes the cleansing item, if it's a consumable and not some passive worldwide system, but that's more of a weird pharmaceutical company than a world government or commune. Get your delivery of grief pills twice a week and otherwise enjoy having unlimited superpowers.
I mean, there's also a small chance of the Magical Girl Society becoming a secret cabal of transhumanist masons, secretly leading the humanity from behind the curtain but having to openly declare their existence on the onset of a human-alien war.
Also something something Sabrina is a prophet of Goddess of Tea, the Eternal Empress Mami.
Do you understand that the entirety of the Meguca world is shackled by the fact that they have to hunt Witches to survive, and basic subsistence is unsustainable by design? That Kyubey actively orchestrates an environment where girls have to kill each other and Familiar-farm if they want any sort of future?

That with Clear Seeds, literally all of that magically goes away?
The steady state example I'm favoring is cultural and "technological / educational" change. A serious attempt to change must be resilient, or it will be overthrown. Grief cubes that can be enchanted by arbitrary Magical Girls worldwide makes sense. Once that freedom is realized, a culture of Magical Girls is required to prevent the end of that lineage. "Freedom isn't free." The secondary use of cultural technology is to keep normie and magical humans in a safe relation, so injustice doesn't happen. Not every person needs to join up, it isn't an army. Normal incentives and normal group dynamics can do all this. After all, as fun as becoming a super human is, the chance to do that while obtaining good friends and self worth will generally draw them together. Centralized solutions are inferior. Evolution says so.

Geh. Will update tomorrow; energy crashed as I was writing. Sorry about that.
Get healed boss - It's good to have you around, and better when that can continue freely. 🥶
 
Assume the theoretical end goal is dewitching being cracked, and creating some alternative to clear seeds that doesn't rely on witches, which we are capable of distributing to every magical girl in the world. That's not the only possible outcome but it seems like what we're aiming for if we want dewitching to be a practical thing.
What I'm personally looking at for a theoretical end goal is not just de-Witching, but also de-Contracting.

This is the comprehensive solution to everything Kyubey has engineered and the ultimate answer any problem caused by magical girls. The complete system breaker.

Girl about to turn into a Witch? Break their contract. Girl feel like they're no longer human and want out? Break their contract. Bunch of magical girl serial killers? Capture them and break their contract; the only way they can continue causing trouble then is by mundane means and then the mundane justice system gets to handle them. Much cleaner than ripping their Soul Gems out of their bodies and stuffing them in a freezer or trying to contain them as a magical girl and hoping they don't Witch out or blow their Soul Gems up in a Kyoko-style kamikaze attack.

Even if somehow they can be prevented from ever turning into a Witch, magical girls live forever and they are functionally immortal.

What this means is, in the long-run, the world will end up with severe societal issues given there's a ton of them walking about with zero restrictions on magic use. Human society will become a two-tiered segregated system - on the lower strata, you will have the mere mortals, unpowered and uncontracted and then above them, the undying superpowered demigods who will never die of old age and whose only possibility of being killed is by breaking a small golf-ball sized Gem which is almost always hidden on their person when they are transformed in combat - possibly meaning always all the time if they have no reason to worry about running out of magic - and thus also protected by the same superpowers they wield. Even if they tried to self-police, the inevitable conflicts between the ones who disagree would cause untold amounts of damage to everyone else (see: the Sendai Civil War).

Not a very fair world to live in. No matter what anyone might say about the real world being a terribly and unfair place, at least death (and taxes) comes equally for everyone. And this is not even getting to the part where only females get to contract to begin with and you are automatically screwed out of superpowers by default if you happen to be born with certain bits in between your legs.

Ideally, even if nobody could stop girls from making a contract, the world should at least have the option of rescinding the privileges gained from those who are deemed to have abused it. In lieu of that, there really isn't much of a middle ground between ripping their soul out and refrigerating the body and simply letting them go. Because if they don't want to get caught they will either end up a Witch or blow their gem up in a blaze of glory, which is essentially ripping their soul out except without preserving the body anyway.
The issue with the Meguca system is that its fueled BY magical girls becoming witches. At some point Kyubbey when he first arrived made a girl into a magical girl in a world WITHOUT witches. She become witch number one and was then hunted by magical girl number 2 who becomes the next witch and so forth.
Well you know, at the end of the day it's fuelled by Kyubey. That second magical girl wouldn't exist if he hadn't found her and gotten a contract out of her.

Would that first Witch have have been able to kill off everyone in the world?

Not the world as it is today, I don't think. We know for a fact that Homura's mundane weaponry works perfectly well on Witches and it is possible for strong enough individuals (i.e. potential magical girls) to survive for at least a while in a labyrinth without getting Kissed or brainwashed by a Witch.

In theory, an organisation of such "potentials" armed with high powered mundane weaponry could defeat most Witches that aren't Walpurgisnacht, albeit probably with a nasty casualty rate. Even if every existing magical girl were to suddenly turn into a Witch, as long as that Witch was only a "normal" Witch and not as strong as Kremhild Gretchen or Walpurginacht, I'd argue humanity would have a fair chance of surviving.

The problem is that Kyubey keeps on soliciting contracts and constantly makes more and more of them all the time.

And wipes the memories of anyone mundane who might organize such a resistance, apparently.
 
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I mean, the hypothetical only Witch in the world could just witch kiss people and never leave it's barrier or invite people into it, and just end the human race by eventual mass suicide.

So.
 
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