Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- Laniakea
....Um, you're going to have to forgive me if this might come off a tad condescending but--
Since when were you under the impression that Grief being moved by Sabrina was NOT active Grief? Because the sole direct reference to "active Grief" in the entire story so far that I can find comes from We've Got Hostiles 15, during the Sendai Civil War in this context:
The act of moving Grief makes it active Grief.
In fact, it seems the faster and more violent the Grief is accelerated, the more "active Grief"-like it apparently feels. So it would thus fall under the same limitations as applying other active effects.
Huh, that's on me, actually. That's a bit of... call it early installment oddity, where I overvalued that. This is the standard:
Anyway, I might as well drop a couple words on Grief:
Godwinson is correct: Under Sabrina's control, even solid Grief is essentially an absolute when stacked against mundane physics. The limits are effectively politeness, collateral damage, and opposing magic.
You're right, it would be cheap.
- Location
- USA, Midworld world line
Beyond the relative price of plot, placing "The Stage Constructing Witch" in that circumstance invites us into...
a 'Space Opera' conflict.
Planetside collateral is really cheap in that setting.
Please do not drop colonies on our Mitakihara. I'm asking nicely.
a 'Space Opera' conflict.
Planetside collateral is really cheap in that setting.
Please do not drop colonies on our Mitakihara. I'm asking nicely.
- Location
- Laniakea
So if I'm interpreting that correctly, moving solid Grief does not count as imbuing it with an active effect and there really is, consequently, no actual cost to Sabrina no matter how much or how fast she does so?
......Well, if we ARE actually allowed to move at or beyond escape velocity, then I propose spy satellites.
We can get someone Niko to build a whole bunch designed to track Kyubey, or just magic in general. No need for a clairvoyant to look for anything when we have a network of early-warning satellites in orbit to do the job for us.
I really like the idea of having a memory-field cloaked spy satellite keeping an eye on Kyubey 24/7.
......Well, if we ARE actually allowed to move at or beyond escape velocity, then I propose spy satellites.
We can get someone Niko to build a whole bunch designed to track Kyubey, or just magic in general. No need for a clairvoyant to look for anything when we have a network of early-warning satellites in orbit to do the job for us.
I really like the idea of having a memory-field cloaked spy satellite keeping an eye on Kyubey 24/7.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Considering that Sabrina wasn't condensing any of it into inert grief, and that grief in the state it's in when freshly withdrawn from the soul gem or grief seed is expressly noticeable, moreso than grief that's been collapsed down into marbles? No, it's not early installment weirdness, it's behaving exactly as you've described it.Huh, that's on me, actually. That's a bit of... call it early installment oddity, where I overvalued that. This is the standard:
Anyway, I might as well drop a couple words on Grief:
Godwinson is correct: Under Sabrina's control, even solid Grief is essentially an absolute when stacked against mundane physics. The limits are effectively politeness, collateral damage, and opposing magic.
You're right, it would be cheap.
Ah, was unclear here - I mean that I was overstating the effect. It definitely is noticeable, as "gaseous" Grief, just that it shouldn't have been quite as powerfully so as described.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Right, since we can disperse inert grief into droplets of fog, I propose we give a more precise term to the state of grief as it's in fresh from a soul gem or grief seed -- raw grief. It fits on multiple levels, even. Inert Grief is the "solid stuff" that is as quiet as Sabrina can make grief to magical senses. This should theoretically reduce the "confusion" in new readers, assuming they actually bother to read the informational threadmarks.
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Sure, I can endorse that as terminology, with the clarification that "fresh from Soul Gem or Grief Seed" is a little confusing, because all "states" of Grief can be freely interconverted. I've updated the previous post on Grief states.
The lack of precision in Sabrina's internal narration is slightly deliberate, as a sidenote - Sabrina is, despite everything and all her weirdness and all, still a teenager. A weird one with a lot of power who, yes, enjoys exercising her powers and experimenting with them, but isn't a hyperanalytical super-rational robot.
Also, just a final bit of clarification on the incident in Sendai:
OK, so Sabrina had a lot of raw Grief. A full Grief Seed's worth, in fact. She didn't have the concentration to spare to turn it fully active and Witchy, so it wasn't as loud as it could be, but it was in and of itself pretty loud just by sheer volume, and definitely enough to shock a magical girl sensing it for a split second or too. I just think that I overstated the description.
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Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Yay, terminology definitions.
And yeah, a full seed worth of raw grief is a lot less loud than, say, a 200 meter wide sphere of cloned grief-seed-filler-density grief. For when Sabrina wants to be loud on an orbital scale.
- Location
- Laniakea
Except, you know, right at the beginning when she was reciting information on Walpurginacht to Homura.
- Location
- a Minecraft Rollercoaster
Where is enchanted Grief on that list?
But you didn't say that you don't allow it, therefore it must be allowed.You're right, it would be cheap.
Updated with that.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯But you didn't say that you don't allow it, therefore it must be allowed.
Still a weird, dorky teenager. Very dorky.Except, you know, right at the beginning when she was reciting information on Walpurginacht to Homura.
- Location
- Laniakea
I'm thinking Kyoko.But you didn't say that you don't allow it, therefore it must be allowed.
She can alter the trajectory of her spears mid-flight. Makes it even cheesier.
This makes me suspect we're going to find out something we won't like the minute we try leaving the atmosphere.
- Location
- USA
Over the years, how many girls do we think wished to be astronauts or explore space?
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
More that Walpurgisnacht isn't ordinary matter which is wholly subject to the whims of how Sabrina controls her grief. Instead, she's the collective will of dozens of witches. Did you actually read the part about how when Sabrina's grief control interacts with anything aside from ordinary matter it becomes a matter of contested willpower-and-belief?
The whole idea is a stupid stunt bandied about as little more than "Hey, wouldn't it be cool?" wankery, rather than any sort of plan to actually win the battle. Might as well wax poetic about 'wonderful potential' of rocket-propelled chainsaws, like the last band of 'clever questers' did.
- Location
- Laniakea
I think I'm missing something here.
How does Kyoko dropping spears on Walpurgisnacht from an orbital platform maintained by Sabrina have anything to do with Sabrina trying to interact with Walpurgisnacht?
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
No, I just misread your proposed idea as being something less pointless than what you actually presented. Mea culpa.
To address the actual idea presented, I'm pretty sure that Kyouko's spears aren't accurate when thrown from dozens of kilometers away, and that Walpurgisnacht will have plenty of time to dodge them. Also, Walpurgisnacht can fly, and thus if she did somehow consider it a threat, it wouldn't be at all safe from counterattack the way you blithely presume. And also one of the key concerns of fighting Walpurgisnacht has always been the hideous damage she inflicts upon the area, which an inaccurate orbital bombardment will be actively anti-helpful for dealing with. Things like that. You know. Little flaws in the idea.
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OK, honestly, dropping GM mystique for a moment to defuse a fight before it starts:
Look, it might be fun to speculate about ways to kill Walpurgisnacht. Some might even work out, who knows. But trust me when I say that the events surrounding Wallynaut are going to be Interesting. Speculating might be fun, theorycrafting ways to cheese the fights is definitely enjoyable, but, look, one of my core philosophies in writing PMAS is that you might have all the fighting power, but the fight is never the central conflict.
Just because you have a hammer doesn't mean every problem is a nail, capisce?
OK, see, I'm imagining Kyouko riding the spears down Dr. Strangelove style to act as an active guidance system...
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- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Speaking of new ideas, could you please elaborate on what in particular makes the grief ammunition something that you don't want to do in this vote? I'd like to know whether it was more of a "not right now, but yes for later when the vote isn't so full," or a "no, I don't like the idea" type of thing. Also would like to know the reasoning if it's a "don't like the idea" type of thing.
For reference, the current iteration of the idea is that we have Sayaka split off a clone with the antimagic power geme, and bring the clone with us when Sayaka goes back to class. We then drop the clone off (or even take her with us, maybe Sayaka can leave her the flight power gem too), and she can just keep enchanting bullets for the rest of the day.
Wait, does that mean that we already have more than enough fighting ability to deal with Iowa, and their challenge is going to be entirely social in nature? Or am I misinterpreting your statement here?
I've been assuming that the point of Iowa was to actually be somewhat of a difficult challenge fighting-wise, rather than being entirely a social challenge. (Not saying I don't think there will be social involved, just that I thought there would also be a difficult fight, which is why I've been advocating for increasing our combat power a little).
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Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
"Right, so in this plan, our two Sakuras perform a high-altitude spear bombardment."
"Fuck you." "Fuck you."
Both. I don't like the idea at all because I don't see Homura or Sayaka reacting terribly well to the idea of providing Kirika with munitions specifically for the sake of enchantment. Even with our arguments toward trusting them, actively providing weaponry that they could turn against us would almost certainly be a bridge to far. To say nothing of the fact the anti-magic bullets wouldn't really do too much more than just Homura shooting them in the first place -- Oriko's ballistic decapitation being an excellent example of how even a lichbombed magical girl can be dropped by the expedient of shooting her body. Oh, and enchantments aren't permanent, so building up any number of them won't work well. To say nothing of the issue of the percentage of shots that actually land.
Honestly, I could keep going, but I'm getting to the point where I don't think I'll be able to continue to be polite in dealing with the 'ideas' being tossed about as of late.
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The problem with 'we can't brute force WPN' is that if we can't that means it is so powerful we have to play its game rather than just overload any narrative-based powers it may have. And its game is theatrical tragedy, so get ready to lose half the team and a big chunk of city besides even on a good day.
So inevitably, anyone who thinks we can avoid taking that kind of casualties figures that we can indeed brute force WPN, specially since there's easy unlimited DPS cheats everywhere when Sabrina, Homura and other magical girls interact.
And you don't need to worry about missing when you can fire from pretty close and the target is huge and immobile.
So inevitably, anyone who thinks we can avoid taking that kind of casualties figures that we can indeed brute force WPN, specially since there's easy unlimited DPS cheats everywhere when Sabrina, Homura and other magical girls interact.
And you don't need to worry about missing when you can fire from pretty close and the target is huge and immobile.
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@Sentient Tree So, the vote is definitely too full already. I'm not entirely sure I'll clear it in one post already. Second, this isn't a specific indictment, but refer to my point above - yeah, it might be the case that it lets you win a fight more easily, but again, winning fights is not the relevant problem at hand.
To answer your other question - look, I'm not going to answer that directly, because I do want to tell the story. Refer to my previous posts.
To answer your other question - look, I'm not going to answer that directly, because I do want to tell the story. Refer to my previous posts.
Your assumptions are incorrect. That's all I'm saying on the matter.
There's 2 main assumptions in there. One is we can't pull a narrative change and beat it with no real casualties thanks to the power of friendship and teamwork. If we can then great, but it just means it's not even worth planning for beyond a cursory 'make sure everybody knows not to die randomly'.
The other is WPN can't start cheating and ignore the timestop, because if it could that would mean it has been deliberately sparing Homura's life in pretty much every fight, and I really hope it's not that smart and aware of the timelines or otherwise it may just decide to not even show up.
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Apparently I was wrong, because -
EDIT: Ooh, I haven't had the opportunity to deploy this in a while:
Your assumptions are still incorrect.
EDIT: Ooh, I haven't had the opportunity to deploy this in a while:
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