Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
That seems to be an error on the same level as assuming "that soul-mage coming to Mitakihara soon" was someone who was going to be all helpful sunshine and rainbows.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- Illinois
I very much like how this is going... Mostly. There's a key omission in here, coupled with the loss of one of my three core points, but on the other hand it adds a number of things that we'd do well to include.
The biggest issue I see -- and the only one I'd really squabble over -- is the omission of any mention of why we think that dewitching tends to go hand in hand with insanity, evilness, etc. It may seem apparent to us that we're not going to be evil about dewitching just because we say that staying not-evil is a higher priority for us than dewitching, but I think there's got to be a hundred tales out there of upstanding, wonderful people who "suddenly started researching dewitching and went crazy."
Because, the thing is, there's an obvious formula to it -- somebody you care about contracts and witches, you find out, and suddenly your priority isn't "protect my friends" it's "dewitch my friend/s" and just like that you're cloning people and making memory alteration fields or whatnot, only you're not the Pleiades and so you're also going around attacking other people who, you know, knew and respected you just a couple of weeks ago.
It's not always going to happen that way. But decent people apparently turning homicidal around the same time as they start researching dewitching, I think that's almost certainly a commonality that's visible to people on the outside, and because of that it's not enough to just say "well, I'm not going to be like that." You need a reason why, and that means exploring why that trend exists. Omitting that is no good -- that's going to be the difference between a somewhat skeptical acceptance and a "well shit, okay, this makes total sense to me."
[X] Open by establishing that you have all kinds of priorities, that dewitching is one of them, and that it comes well after generally being a good person.
[X] Explain that it came to your attention that dewitching research generally goes together with being evil and crazy.
-[X] You think you've got a good idea about why that is -- to do anything with a grief seed, you'd have to get out all the grief, even if only so that the soul wouldn't re-witch. But if you can only move grief between containers, you'd need the capacity of an entire clear seed to do that. Mix in a healthy dose of obsession and/or desperation, and...
(Yuki will be able to see where that goes.)
[X] In whatever order makes sense, while listening to + addressing any concerns etc:
-[X] You're telling her all of this because she deserves to know about it. If you get anywhere with making a non-soul substitute for a clear seed, you might ask for a capacity-equivalent exchange after proper testing, but you were fully aware of the ethics involved when you gave it to her. It's theirs.
-[X] Stress (more) that safety comes before all of this. You can afford to take things slowly. You can't afford to fuck everything up.
-[X] Detail your experiments with clear seeds, as with Nadia. Include the recent experience with applying emotion-charged magic -- that result alone thoroughly legitimizes your experiments.
-[X] You're somewhat hopeful you can get Anri to contribute to this -- she's obsessed with dewitching her friend, and if you could get her to do work for you instead of against you...
This is about 80 words shorter than @The Phoenixian's standing. What do people think?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Nah, it's a bigger error. Oriko raised Rionna as a possibility for helping her with her soul twisting itself into knots, and when we asked Nadia about her we also heard moderately good things.
By way of comparison, everything we've heard from Oriko about the Soujus confirms that their canon characterization is still in effect.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
"I LOVE STEALING SOULS BECAUSE THEY'RE PRETTY!"
"You know what I bet she'd love to help us in dewitching efforts."
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
In our past conversations, Yuki has been unmoved by emotional entreaties and has been far more convinced by simple, plain logic.
Her response to our grandiose proclamations of wanting to help everyone was essentially, "Okay, so what?"
In that sense, I'm a little concerned that the leading vote starts off with an appeal to emotion.
@The Phoenixian , maybe we should consider rephrasing this? The rest of your vote seems entirely acceptable to me, running over the key points with a few potential specifics, then defaulting back to the vote in abeyance. It could be rephrased to reduce the wordcount, I suppose, but that's lower priority. But the opening seems like it might be problematic.
Her response to our grandiose proclamations of wanting to help everyone was essentially, "Okay, so what?"
In that sense, I'm a little concerned that the leading vote starts off with an appeal to emotion.
@The Phoenixian , maybe we should consider rephrasing this? The rest of your vote seems entirely acceptable to me, running over the key points with a few potential specifics, then defaulting back to the vote in abeyance. It could be rephrased to reduce the wordcount, I suppose, but that's lower priority. But the opening seems like it might be problematic.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Problem is, we've seen a couple attempts at dewitching, even a mostly successful one with Kazumi, and they haven't done that. Claiming that other people who tried what we're doing must have run aground on problems that don't apply to us is...I really don't like the word, but it's hubristic. Asserting where dewitching attempts go bad and getting it wrong is not going to reassure her.
This is why I want to just tell her specifically what we're doing. It's one sentence to tell her that we're not doing something that needs us to kidnap meguca for experimentation or rewrite local reality or whatever other shit dewitchers get up to.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
We should probably inform Yuki about the Soujus arrival anyway - sticking to the terms of the defense agreement will likely reassure her that we're taking it seriously, and won't leave her team in the lurch.
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DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
.... I always figured that evil/amorality went hand in hand with dewitching because most girls who end up trying to figure out how to dewitch someone found out that MG's are witches ... by watching their friend witch out.
Suddenly getting grief seeds is a matter of existential survival, and dewitching is basically (for most) their attempts to deny that their friend or significant other is gone. They will not, can not, allow something to stop them from ensuring their own ability to clear the soul gems and strive to ensure they have room for error because they can't afford to run out of seeds.
They can not give up on trying/looking into ANY lead in dewitching their friend because if they give up they have to accept they are gone which they may not be able to do when they also have to deal with the fact that they themselves can/will turn into a witch.
Basically people trying to dewitch people are evil because
1) The realization that witches are magical girls drove them insane
2) The realization means they go full Darwinist survival of the fittest/Hobbesian reality and become sociopaths only concerned with their own survival.
3) They cling onto trying to 'save' their friends to avoid some versions of points 1 and 2 and will let nothing stop them because otherwise they snap so basically become Homura...but if Homura was trying to dewitch Madoka rather then change the timeline.
short version - I suspect most people that try to dewitch people are doing so under circumstances that are not conducive to good mental health.
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- Location
- Depths of Hell, Maybe
Ack, now I have the image in my mind of first-timeline Madoka witching out in front of Moemura and Moemura turning into the hardened Homura we know in a very different way.
- Location
- Illinois
So here's the thing. You're right that they haven't done that -- and yet, that only leaves them in the position of having to try other things, all of which cost magic, and all of which are going to fail, quite probably without the slightest hint of success because you're not going to get anywhere with a soul packed with as much grief as it can hold.
Nothing works, nothing works, all of it takes magic. You need ever more grief seeds, for yourself, for your experiments, for your ever-growing desperation.
And still, nothing works.
I agree, I'm omitting any explanation of that rationale. But I kind of felt that given the experience behind the person we're talking to, it'd be enough to lay out what I have -- asking "what if you don't try that" runs into the statement of "you need to get all the grief out" and from there the logical progression -- a spiral of needing resources and growing less stable with every failure -- is both very similar and very simple.
*taps fingers*
You pointed out also, that it's somewhat arrogant to posit that, you know, the big problem is something that only applies to everyone else.
There's two reasons I'm not worried about that -- first, that if anybody else ever got anywhere with this stuff, we'd've heard something about it. At least we'd've heard "sometimes there's some interesting results" from Nadia. But we just didn't. That clear seed we have reacting to emotionally charged magic -- that seems to me like it's the most impressive result anybody has ever heard of, and it's barely more than "we got it to do something."
The second reason, of course, is Kyubey's confirmation of the uniqueness of our powers and everybody else's reaction to us.
...
As for "tell her specifically what we're doing"...
That's what that was meant to be.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
Imagine if that's a double play on Firnagzen part, where he basically put all the character names in one box, their characterizations in another, and takes them out randomly to see what's the Guca's actually like when she finally appears on screen to spice things up.
Turns out?
Rionna was always meant to be nice girl, right up until she wasn't.
Kazusa&Co? Insane scientists tripping balls on Grief making weird things happen in their town, and those Slaughterhouse expies just had a really bad reputation after a mess-up in Las Vegas the summer before.
Kirika? Secretly a chuu- oh wait.
What I mean to say is, after Oriko and Nadia basically vouched that Rionna was a strict, but fair figure, I don't really trust their "people" predictions at all, until I see some evidence supporting them.
Maybe paranoid of me, but well. Fancy how that came to be, eh?
For explanation, Oriko saw only some futures, most of them depressing and having ended in her death ( which probably makes sense maybe that she saw Rionna as someone who edgelord Sabrina would be willing to cooperate with ), and Nadia only knows most people by their reputation. I'd rather have a report conjured up by our invisible spy network, it's shadowy hand of friendship, hugs, benevolence and Sayaclones spread over all that eye can see, thank you.
- Location
- a Minecraft Rollercoaster
So should we treat the Soujus as most likely crazy, but may possibly have a semi-sane rational of putting girls in stasis? Cause I don't want to find her, SWAT her, and find out she wasn't evil all along.
Edit: spelling
Edit: spelling
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Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
What do you mean, "you don't want to"? What are we gonna bitch about during our next saltstorm?
Look, in manga they collected Soul Gems because they were bloody magpies in human disguise
By track record, Firnagzen's characters at least make sense, most of the time
So yes, they probably have a reason beyond "we like the shiny things who also happen to be souls of other people, so we collect them"
But that's probably unsafe to assume
So I'm kinda for the opposite approach at the moment
Timestop, check if they do have souls on them, take them out, then ask pointed questions
Eh, I might change my opinion later
- Location
- a Minecraft Rollercoaster
That's why I said "most likely crazy". Hell, if we find her, I would go for what you suggest, but also have more backup and antimagic just to be safe.What do you mean, "you don't want to"? What are we gonna bitch about during our next saltstorm?
Look, in manga they collected Soul Gems because they were bloody magpies in human disguise
By track record, Firnagzen's characters at least make sense, most of the time
So yes, they probably have a reason beyond "we like the shiny things who also happen to be souls of other people, so we collect them"
But that's probably unsafe to assume
So I'm kinda for the opposite approach at the moment
Timestop, check if they do have souls on them, take them out, then ask pointed questions
Eh, I might change my opinion later
- Location
- USA, Midworld world line
An "everything" mix of our conversation with Yuki. Adding in Soujo. Is there any other possible privacy-conversation we need to consider, or did we get them all?
-[X] We became a magical girl to help other magical girls. Our first priorities are our friends and keeping as many people as possible alive, healthy, and happy. Turning Witches back into people is the continuation of that, but being a generally good person is most significant.
[X] Core points:
-[X] You intend to be as sane, safe, and ethical as possible about this. You're not desperate or in a hurry and your power means you shouldn't have to be.
-[X] This is something she has a right to know both as your ally, and as Anri's guard.
-[X] Explain why you think you have a chance, in as much detail as she desires.
-[X] Address her comments and concerns. Offer to make her as involved in discussions and with Anri as she wishes to be.
[X]Potential specifics:
-[X] Briefly summarize your experiments. Use the same explanation of your efforts you gave Nadia.
--[X] Clear Seeds
---[X] We understand the difficulty of skirting natural Law, we just aren't sure which parts are Law yet.
---[X] Note the similarity between how Clear Seeds and Soul Gems interact with "normal" Grief Seeds.
---[X] Explain how seeds "go to sleep" when you cleanse them.
---[X] Even if it doesn't actually restore them, you believe that clear seeds at least aren't suffering anymore, and we intend to continue that standard of ethics.
---[X] We've been channeling positive emotions and magic into a Clear Seed in the hope of eventually getting it the rest of the way. Small visible changes.
-[X] No, we will not suddenly recall her clear seed because we succeeded. Only if we've found a major problem with them or if we believe a grief seed substitute can replace them entirely, and even then that would be her choice.
--[X] We were fully aware of the ethics involved when we gave it to her. It's theirs.
-[X] Dewitching has a bad reputation. It's part of why you intend to be cautious and to listen to any advice others have in doing so.
--[X] You think you've got a good idea about why that is. To do anything with a grief seed, you'd have to get out all the grief, even if only so that the soul wouldn't re-witch. But if you can only move grief between containers, you'd need the capacity of an entire clear seed to do that. Mix in a healthy dose of obsession and/or desperation, and...
--[X] There are failure modes - not creating a Soul Gem, making a Witch with copies of our powers, total amnesia if the soul comes back, salvaging a Soul Gem that is effectively a different person, etc.
--[X] Stress (more) that safety comes before all of this. You can afford to take things slowly. You can't afford to fuck everything up.
-[X] Soujo-tachi are coming. Advise us on them, or their type. We want to control the fight, even if they want collateral damage.
--[X] We see a possibility to save victims of Soujo and Soujo, that would require a scaled up effort. Ask her advice on building a workshop / hospital. Additional cooperating people have to be accommodated.
-[X] One of the things you told Anri to get her to surrender was that you would work on finding a way to dewitch her friend.
--[X] You're somewhat hopeful you can get Anri to contribute to this. She's obsessed with dewitching her friend, and if you could get her to do work for you instead of against you...
[X] Pull from Vote In Abeyance as appropriate.
-[X] We became a magical girl to help other magical girls. Our first priorities are our friends and keeping as many people as possible alive, healthy, and happy. Turning Witches back into people is the continuation of that, but being a generally good person is most significant.
[X] Core points:
-[X] You intend to be as sane, safe, and ethical as possible about this. You're not desperate or in a hurry and your power means you shouldn't have to be.
-[X] This is something she has a right to know both as your ally, and as Anri's guard.
-[X] Explain why you think you have a chance, in as much detail as she desires.
-[X] Address her comments and concerns. Offer to make her as involved in discussions and with Anri as she wishes to be.
[X]Potential specifics:
-[X] Briefly summarize your experiments. Use the same explanation of your efforts you gave Nadia.
--[X] Clear Seeds
---[X] We understand the difficulty of skirting natural Law, we just aren't sure which parts are Law yet.
---[X] Note the similarity between how Clear Seeds and Soul Gems interact with "normal" Grief Seeds.
---[X] Explain how seeds "go to sleep" when you cleanse them.
---[X] Even if it doesn't actually restore them, you believe that clear seeds at least aren't suffering anymore, and we intend to continue that standard of ethics.
---[X] We've been channeling positive emotions and magic into a Clear Seed in the hope of eventually getting it the rest of the way. Small visible changes.
-[X] No, we will not suddenly recall her clear seed because we succeeded. Only if we've found a major problem with them or if we believe a grief seed substitute can replace them entirely, and even then that would be her choice.
--[X] We were fully aware of the ethics involved when we gave it to her. It's theirs.
-[X] Dewitching has a bad reputation. It's part of why you intend to be cautious and to listen to any advice others have in doing so.
--[X] You think you've got a good idea about why that is. To do anything with a grief seed, you'd have to get out all the grief, even if only so that the soul wouldn't re-witch. But if you can only move grief between containers, you'd need the capacity of an entire clear seed to do that. Mix in a healthy dose of obsession and/or desperation, and...
--[X] There are failure modes - not creating a Soul Gem, making a Witch with copies of our powers, total amnesia if the soul comes back, salvaging a Soul Gem that is effectively a different person, etc.
--[X] Stress (more) that safety comes before all of this. You can afford to take things slowly. You can't afford to fuck everything up.
-[X] Soujo-tachi are coming. Advise us on them, or their type. We want to control the fight, even if they want collateral damage.
--[X] We see a possibility to save victims of Soujo and Soujo, that would require a scaled up effort. Ask her advice on building a workshop / hospital. Additional cooperating people have to be accommodated.
-[X] One of the things you told Anri to get her to surrender was that you would work on finding a way to dewitch her friend.
--[X] You're somewhat hopeful you can get Anri to contribute to this. She's obsessed with dewitching her friend, and if you could get her to do work for you instead of against you...
[X] Pull from Vote In Abeyance as appropriate.
The big intent wasn't grammar-ed over to you properly? My fault. Victory over Soujo results in liberating all her hostages - her Soul Gem collection - that didn't die yet. If our plans work, this means an influx of rehabilitating Magical Girls. Handling this is non-trivial - but Yuki is already experienced in tradecraft. Hiding and moving things is a base competency, or Kyuubey would have been all over her like a hair shirt. Also, talking about this with her is solid relationship building. This kind of BTS is why she signed up - Yuki isn't as expansionist as we are, but she really feels better if she is in the cat bird seat - she wanted to be first in line, after all. Give her what she paid for.
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- Location
- Depths of Hell, Maybe
[X] The Phoenixian
Yay! First time voting!
Yay! First time voting!
- Location
- USA, Midworld world line
Yeah, this isn't anticipated to be a diplomacy session like Tokyo. One aspiration is to re-assert modern morality for Magical Girls, so we can use fragments of jurisprudence where appropriate. Closest match is military security. The first priority is to get 100% control of the situation, in a tactical manner. Allowing a possibility for judgment later is included - but that is definitely after action.
We need to learn what we can, and if it still matches then "possesion of Soul Gems not your own" is probable cause. Free trip to Fukushima. As we will likely be conducting the inquest after defeating Soujos, I now have more reasons to try for a win with minimal involvement from Homura.
1) No witnesses. Whatever leaks may already have occurred, I want to keep Homura's advantage safe as best we can.
2) If we have further Soujo troubles, there is an easy solution.
3) Homura doesn't need to interact with every bit of human garbage in the Magical Girl world. When we can give her a break, it's helping her to heal.
4) We need the training.
I'm thinking Homura can help us by positioning any of us as needed just prior to the assault. Mostly, she could multiply our forces best by doing as she will - guard the Princess, and maybe the population. She can respond with Timestop from anywhere we can signal her. Last time is a reasonable template. A role that lets her skip the villain's monologue, while still being heroic, is the better choice. Luca and Ayase are not mute like Walpurgisnacht. Our nature is far more suited to slough off the corrosion of human evil.
Now we just need a good defensive adaptation for our population... We really need to prevent single targets, and establish a safety behavior plan. Is this a job we should be offering Kyouko? As we draw her back into the group, does that mean Yuma has decided the outcome must be a more domestic affair? Would Kyouko be satisfied minding her castle town, filled with her friends? She has a significant barrier magic, and that is being powered by some emotion... Yuki can make a castle all by herself, given some help around it. Kyouko isn't suited to build the castle without partners, but I'm certain she can handle the result.
Wasshoi !
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
"Grand Vizier Nappa, I require your treasured guidance once more."
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
With regards to the Soujo's motives, I do expect some rationale to make their actions make more sense than in PMKM... but there's a big difference between making sense and making them good people. Them being mercenaries of a stripe that keep and lock down gems instead of killing, would make some sense.What do you mean, "you don't want to"? What are we gonna bitch about during our next saltstorm?
Look, in manga they collected Soul Gems because they were bloody magpies in human disguise
By track record, Firnagzen's characters at least make sense, most of the time
So yes, they probably have a reason beyond "we like the shiny things who also happen to be souls of other people, so we collect them"
But that's probably unsafe to assume
So I'm kinda for the opposite approach at the moment
Timestop, check if they do have souls on them, take them out, then ask pointed questions
Eh, I might change my opinion later
(Especially if they were sent after us by the same people who told she-who-must-not-be-named about us.)
Ultimately, we know that they may come to confront us and that if they do it will come to a fight. As oppose to, say, giving us the chance to restore the girls they took. That alone nullifies most good or good-but-crazy possibilities.
And yeah, currently rereading vote suggestions and mulling over changes.
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- Location
- a Minecraft Rollercoaster
It's a shame though, cause if she was good-but-crazy, then it would have been feasible that she believes that she is on a mission from God to save megucas from damnation(Witch outs).
And assuming that, Sabrina/Madokami might end up getting a worshipper.
Misty Raven
Tee Hee
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think an important point hiding in here is that (unlike previous crazy de-witching-obsessed megucas) we don't actually have a deep, desperate reason to research de-witching aside from "it would be a good thing to do." Because we're not desperate to begin with, there's no reason why we would resort to drastic measures. That's the point I think we should try to make clear to Yuki, rather than the "my unique magic makes me more likely to succeed." Because while the latter's still, y'know, true, it does sound like the kind of optimistic thing someone would say before spiraling into crazy territory for the sake of completing their research. Which is the impression that we don't want to give.
- Location
- Illinois
Literally all of this is immediately implicit from talking about other people probably being desperate to make it work, which is something you will notice my vote explicitly does, partly for this exact reason. Yuki is intelligent, and that's not even a remotely veiled implication.
Speaking of which, @The Phoenixian, you ever get anywhere with your thinking?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
It's an obvious implication given what Yuki knows about our abilities, but words matter - and so does the way we present our case.
A running theme in PMMM is "miscommunication kills". And while this isn't anywhere near as dire - Yuki's a smart, levelheaded girl, we could probably get away with just haphazardly throwing the dewitching facts at her in a random order and she'd figure out the gist of things - we can still try to improve things.
Every bit of clarity helps.
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The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Bleh. This took far too long.
I'm having to think about this one at length. The approach seems off to me, which was why I didn't include it to begin with.
I think, when it comes to us falling down a hole of crazy due to dewitching, our personal caution about the possibility matters more than our reasoning and theories here. Our self-watchfullness is far more important to whether or not we avoid crazy courses of action than facts and figures are.
Beyond that, the presumption here on grief is also working from a grief controller's point of view, which just seems too narrow. I doubt most girls would all pick the same path in their attempts, instead taking a wide range of actions based on their theories and personalities.
-----------------------------
What I do think is potentially important in the way of facts and figures, is not just avoiding desperation ourselves, but how we plan to temper desperation in others.
Thus far, what we know and suspect about refilling clear seeds implies that the best way to do so may well require living as well as possible.
The line I'd been planning to use on Anri --- and the Shiogama girls, if we did indeed clear Tanaka Misato's seed by accident --- is basically "What would you do for them if they returned today in front of you? I would advise you to start by treating yourself to and like, then feed it to the seed."
The other half of that is that we don't spread our plans willy-nilly: We don't advertise our plans and remain careful about discussing or inducting others into them.
The main reason I don't go into them is that that the votes gotten pretty bloated, the second bit about secrecy is somewhat inherent in the format and I can't think up an explanation that I believe we'd prioritize enough to keep to, and the first part is something I'm planning to vote for once we get to Anri and I don't want go over it onscreen multiple times.
But I get that the "I fight for my friends" doesn't quite fit with that, and can lead to ProblemsTM as Kaizuki said. So let's try this instead.
[X] Preface:
-[X] You became a magical girl to help other magical girls. Your first priority in that is, and must be, keeping people alive, healthy, and happy but if you can, you also intend to work on helping witches become people again. Clear seeds, you hope, may provide a path to that.
[X] Core points:
-[X] You intend to be as sane, safe, and ethical as possible about this. You're not desperate or in a hurry and your power means you shouldn't have to be.
-[X] Demonstrate in fullness to Yuki that you are considering why dewitching and badness go together so frequently and how to avoid it.
-[X] This is something she has a right to know both as your ally, and as Anri's guard.
-[X] Explain why you think you have a chance, in as much detail as she desires.
-[X] Address her comments and concerns. Offer to make her as involved in discussions and with Anri as she wishes to be.
[X]Potential specifics:
-[X] Briefly summarize your experiments. Use the same explanation of your efforts you gave Nadia. Include the inner activity of grief seeds, how it changes when cleared, and the effects you've seen from filling them with magic.
-[X] Even if it doesn't work out for actually restoring them, you believe that clear seeds at least aren't suffering anymore, and you intend to carry that standard of ethics towards any attempts you make.
-[X] You've spoken to Nadia, and you're heard some of the horror stories and why dewitching has a bad reputation. It's part of why you intend to be cautious and to listen to any advice others have in doing so.
-[X] One of the things you told Anri to get her to surrender was that you would work on finding a way to dewitch her friend.
-[X] No, you will not suddenly recall her clear seed because you succeeded. The only reasons you'll ask are if you've found a major problem with them or if you believe you have a grief seed substitute that can replace them entirely, and even then that would be her choice.
-[X] Pull from Vote In Abeyance as appropriate.
[X] Continue to Vote In Abeyance
EDIT: incorporated.
I'm having to think about this one at length. The approach seems off to me, which was why I didn't include it to begin with.
I think, when it comes to us falling down a hole of crazy due to dewitching, our personal caution about the possibility matters more than our reasoning and theories here. Our self-watchfullness is far more important to whether or not we avoid crazy courses of action than facts and figures are.
Beyond that, the presumption here on grief is also working from a grief controller's point of view, which just seems too narrow. I doubt most girls would all pick the same path in their attempts, instead taking a wide range of actions based on their theories and personalities.
-----------------------------
What I do think is potentially important in the way of facts and figures, is not just avoiding desperation ourselves, but how we plan to temper desperation in others.
Thus far, what we know and suspect about refilling clear seeds implies that the best way to do so may well require living as well as possible.
The line I'd been planning to use on Anri --- and the Shiogama girls, if we did indeed clear Tanaka Misato's seed by accident --- is basically "What would you do for them if they returned today in front of you? I would advise you to start by treating yourself to and like, then feed it to the seed."
The other half of that is that we don't spread our plans willy-nilly: We don't advertise our plans and remain careful about discussing or inducting others into them.
The main reason I don't go into them is that that the votes gotten pretty bloated, the second bit about secrecy is somewhat inherent in the format and I can't think up an explanation that I believe we'd prioritize enough to keep to, and the first part is something I'm planning to vote for once we get to Anri and I don't want go over it onscreen multiple times.
Hmmm... Okay, I'm having a hard time with this because my intention here is not an appeal to emotion but to temper the reveal with a statement of priority: To show that while we intend to work on it, we also hold that aid to the living does, and must, come before restoring the fallen. Anything otherwise would lead to insane conclusions.
But I get that the "I fight for my friends" doesn't quite fit with that, and can lead to ProblemsTM as Kaizuki said. So let's try this instead.
[X] Preface:
-[X] You became a magical girl to help other magical girls. Your first priority in that is, and must be, keeping people alive, healthy, and happy but if you can, you also intend to work on helping witches become people again. Clear seeds, you hope, may provide a path to that.
[X] Core points:
-[X] You intend to be as sane, safe, and ethical as possible about this. You're not desperate or in a hurry and your power means you shouldn't have to be.
-[X] Demonstrate in fullness to Yuki that you are considering why dewitching and badness go together so frequently and how to avoid it.
-[X] This is something she has a right to know both as your ally, and as Anri's guard.
-[X] Explain why you think you have a chance, in as much detail as she desires.
-[X] Address her comments and concerns. Offer to make her as involved in discussions and with Anri as she wishes to be.
[X]Potential specifics:
-[X] Briefly summarize your experiments. Use the same explanation of your efforts you gave Nadia. Include the inner activity of grief seeds, how it changes when cleared, and the effects you've seen from filling them with magic.
-[X] Even if it doesn't work out for actually restoring them, you believe that clear seeds at least aren't suffering anymore, and you intend to carry that standard of ethics towards any attempts you make.
-[X] You've spoken to Nadia, and you're heard some of the horror stories and why dewitching has a bad reputation. It's part of why you intend to be cautious and to listen to any advice others have in doing so.
-[X] One of the things you told Anri to get her to surrender was that you would work on finding a way to dewitch her friend.
-[X] No, you will not suddenly recall her clear seed because you succeeded. The only reasons you'll ask are if you've found a major problem with them or if you believe you have a grief seed substitute that can replace them entirely, and even then that would be her choice.
-[X] Pull from Vote In Abeyance as appropriate.
[X] Continue to Vote In Abeyance
EDIT: incorporated.
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