- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That's fair. Still, I wouldn't count out single-timeline time travel completely, although I suspect the universe would be very active in keeping such things from happening.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
That's fair. Still, I wouldn't count out single-timeline time travel completely, although I suspect the universe would be very active in keeping such things from happening.
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
isnt single timeline travel what madokami did when she eliminated all witches from all points in time? she didnt make a new timeline after all
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Well... she erased and recreated all possible timelines in the multiverse. That's... kind of a unique event.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
also made herself cease to exist.
and made herself into a universal constant more or less
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
if anything thats the opposite of not existing, he was suddenly everywhere and when simultaneously (dont tell mom)
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
ok ok
she ceased to be a person and became something magical girl physicists would conjecture about.
Sabrina: Two things are constant, the speed of light and our lady and savior coming to help when you leave our dear and fluffy earth.
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
Sabrina: "FOR THE LOVE OF MADOKAMI"
Homura: "wait wat"
- Location
- USA, Midworld world line
Mental protection enchantment is by far the short term requirement. Placing that first is correct.
I would be happier if there was another pass at optimization, i.e. why not try to invent the path towards the goal, and select who will take the individual tasks. Would you do the honors?
Therefore,
[X] Kaizuki
I would be happier if there was another pass at optimization, i.e. why not try to invent the path towards the goal, and select who will take the individual tasks. Would you do the honors?
Therefore,
[X] Kaizuki
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
You know if homura ever learns of the existence of Madokami we will likely have to have this talk
"No homura, no luring god down from. Heaven and entrapping her for cuddles"
"No homura, no luring god down from. Heaven and entrapping her for cuddles"
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
"This Madokami is already taken. By another you. Yeah. I call her Homucifer. So, basically: don't get greedy, Mom."
Eeeeh
Madokami is a potenitalbomb
Unless Homura is glib enough to believe that of course Madoka is a goddess, she's just glad she realized it herself
And my policy for potentialbomb, if it ever happens, as I've already stated on numerous occasions is "don't stop until you've recited the plot of the Rebellion"
- Location
- Canada
Rebellion was the real happy ending all along. Better than the original series, in my opinion.
So to sum this thought up: We aren't ever going to talk about the plot of Rebellion, because if we try to present any deep perspective on the morality of it the thread will burn down. Again.
So to sum this thought up: We aren't ever going to talk about the plot of Rebellion, because if we try to present any deep perspective on the morality of it the thread will burn down. Again.
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
mood, I also see rebellion as being a better ending but not a good one, just look at how miserable homura looks at the end, and how all her familiars hate her and the barely concealed suicide metaphors, we should definitely not paint it as being all sunshine despite everyone being alive and back to their normal lives
EDIT: if only because we know with how little homura thinks of herself she might see her own pain and sorrow as being a fair trade and we are trying to dissuade that kind of thinking, telling her that by condemning herself to suffering she managed to save everyone in another world is not conducive to that
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AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Yea, no, we're not accepting an ending where Homura hates herself and Madoka's soul is broken in half. The fuck.
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
Yeah, okay. Unless it becomes relevant, I'm not going to mention it again.
I'm 21 and I'm already too old for this shit.
- Location
- Canada
She did literally win everything, though. She'd probably get into a better mental state after spending time in a lower-stress environment eventually. It does all depend a bit on your perspective. Some people insist on her new universe being unstable in spite of there being little evidence either way, for example.
The problem with Homura and Madoka is that both of them wanted to sacrifice themselves for the good of others, but Madoka refused to admit that the sense of job-satisfaction she got from it wasn't a replacement for happiness, and Homura was too defeatist and mentally broken to care about victory by the time she got it.
Wait, shoot. I'm trying to debate about this already! Need to find a newspaper...
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
of course the fuck not, we're never letting madoka make any wish, I'm saying that when we eventually tell homura of the events of rebellion we need to be careful because we all know how self sacrificing homura is and she might see it as "if I truly sacrifice my own happiness forever and betray people for their own good then I can keep them safe and happy"
and that is not the message we want to be sending mom, its the antithisis of helping her get over her trauma
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
Er. Soulsgardian, AuraTwilight is arguing with Evilness42, not with you.
Unless I'm mistaken.
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
ah I see, my bad. I'm just worried about mom backsliding into habits of refusing help and suffering alone.
- Location
- Illinois
... I feel obligated to reply to this.
As far as I'm concerned, the collective knowledge in the room re actually producing a mind-protecting enchantment lies with everyone except us. Maxim number I'm making this up, when somebody else knows more about the issue at hand, let them lead on it.
So no, I'm not actually interested in "inventing the path towards the goal." Let Mami do that.
I... think we should maybe reconsider "leave the Oriko discussion for later." Actually, I think we should maybe reconsider having the Oriko discussion in this vote.
"Kai, what the fuck?"
My rationale is actually pretty simple. Hitomi has established that she currently has limited time. The fact that the discussion more or less necessarily includes a lecture on the nature of wishes and magics makes me think that it's going to take a long damn time. We also have other priorities to pursue. I can't help but feel that there's a strong chance of a time conflict there, especially in the context of "leave the Oriko discussion for later but before Hitomi needs to leave."
And yet, the tradeoff on this is delaying talking about it, which as we all know is undesirable...
But, in this case, I don't think it's unacceptable. I think we have a response to it in the form of "I told Homura more/less immediately," because the actors involved are cognizant of Homura's vehement opposition to Oriko... provided we don't delay talking about it too much. It might also be the case that we do have time for it right now, following this vote, in which case I'm off my rocker.
...
Maybe I should be tagging Firn on this. Derp.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
wait question
if Madokami is transtemporal and already maybe exists then we have Madokami AND Madoka at the same time.
Though if Madokami is transtemporal could a version of Homucifer also be transtemporal having made herself a sort of reciprocal to Madokami?
if Madokami is transtemporal and already maybe exists then we have Madokami AND Madoka at the same time.
Though if Madokami is transtemporal could a version of Homucifer also be transtemporal having made herself a sort of reciprocal to Madokami?
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Homura won everything except the one and only thing she actually wanted and needed. Like, she's very clearly tired managing things anyway, there's suicidal imagery, none of her friends remember her and/or hate her, and she destroyed any real chance of reconnecting to the Madoka that she actually needs.
The Madoka who remembers her.
The Madoka who appreciated and understood her.
The Madoka who could call her her best friend.
The Madoka of Rebellion's ending is not that; she sees Homura as a stranger and will never be allowed to remember or understand or truly connect with Homura because Homura will never allow it, and we know Homura can't actually emotionally settle for that because the idea of her and Madoka drifting from each other as the loops caused made her break down in tears. Homucifer is resigned to the apparent inevitability that Madoka will hate her.
In what fucking sense has she won?
Also, as for the bold, the Concept Movie has very explicit imagery of Ultimate Gretchen preparing to consume the universe, which makes sense since Madokami is not up in heaven punching her out. OOPS.
Why in the everliving actual fuck would we tell Homura about Rebellion? What the hell good is it? "Hey Homura just so you know one time in the future you could have ripped Madoka's soul in half and brainwiped her because you no longer trusted her to make her own choices, and you accepted the title of being the Devil."
Like, do people not understand that Homura already hates herself and is only barely able to stomach what she feels she has to do? She is not a cold pragmatist who can completely monofocus on her mission, she's just forcing herself into that behavior because of her depression. She forces herself to do the things she does because she rationalizes she has no other choice whatsoever, and even then there are strong implications that, if not for Sabrina, her plan post-loops was to just fuck out of Mitakihara and kill herself so that she never became a Witch, and thus a danger to Madoka (and probably out of guilt for everything she did).
If you tell her she has it in her to do what she does to Madoka, it will destroy her. Homucifer herself is already suicidal. What the HELL.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
I'll say that my own reason for delaying is that I don't like Veb's plan and I simply don't trust myself to come up with an alternate plan alone in the available space. If you have thoughts there I'd love to hear them.
Without dragging back up the minor flamewar: I haven't had a chance to review what we have and haven't told Hitomi yet about Oriko's situation and the decisions we made since last time it came up, but I think treating her like a non-entity in the vote is a bad idea. Magical girl or not, she's still intelligent, influential among our group, and oriented towards abiding the law. Which is a problem when our solutions skirt it just by existing.
---------------------------------
In other news, I was thinking of going from just raising Homura getting on IRCs to talking about recruitment in general. It's become kind of clear that we're... not good at dealmaking, whereas Homura is much more focused and has far more experience than ourselves in doing so, and it may be wise to talk to all our friends about the matter just generally, so that we can talk about how to bring their skills to bear in this matter too.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
This is an extremely good idea. What deal would Homura strike with people that we wouldn't immediately agree with, honestly?
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Coffee shall be served at all meetings.