Hmm. I think I can improve the current vote a bit.
[X] "Okay, I... I really should have thought to do this before now."
[X] Reassure Homura by explaining why we believe what we believe. Be thorough, be detailed, provide examples, logos not pathos.
-[X] Detail to Homura wish-magic psychology, particularly wish rejection, so she doesn't have to take your argument on faith and can apply the reasoning herself.
[X] Case studies:
-[X] Mami's magic is based around ties to life, after she wished to live. As a result, she can't forget the pain caused by severed bonds.
-[X] Sayaka wished to be useful, so that she could be part of a team. Her powers are great given our support to build up, but would have been useless if she was solo.
-[X] Kirika wished to help Oriko, and received the power to turn off powers. That was what convinced Oriko that she didn't need to rely on her visions of the future.
-[X] Oriko started out wanting control and her own death, due to her family issues. She wished to know the meaning of her life, but the only meaning she could find was in suicidal martyrdom, which her power obliged.
--[X] She gave up those motives and lost that power. This power is driven by different motives, namely satisfaction with reality and a desire to enjoy it in the moment.
--[X] Oriko's wish rejection started right after you apologized for threatening to witch Kirika, and Oriko apologized for her own actions. Earnest regret for one's wish is the surest form of rejection. She lost her precognition, and suffered as she thought she must.
I think that @Vebyast 's section is dangerously vague here. If we want Sabrina to bring up these examples, we should make it clear what their purpose actually is: It's not at all obvious to me how bringing up Hijiri is meant to support our position, for example.
[X] Work through the technical considerations. This power is not proactive. For defending Madoka you actually prefer actionable info about the real world rather than hypotheticals and vague warnings. Clairvoyance is less dangerous of a power even if she did mean to attack. -[X] You're open to discussing additional safety measures too, but that discussion should happen with Sayaka and Hitomi's input.
-[X] You're here to help make sure things can be fixed, most of all to help Homura. Turning Oriko from an enemy into an ally, from a threat to an additional layer of protection, that seems like fixing things.
[X] Remain in timestop to continue conversation.
And I think bringing up that Sayaka is on Homura's side here is important, both because of the other topics we want to discuss later, and because of the simple fact that pushing that bond is a good idea in general.
*hugs* Yeah, I know the feel, especially as I was holding the ball and couldn't figure out a good way to incorporate Veb's thoughts before time ran out.
Hmm. I think I can improve the current vote a bit.
[X] "Okay, I... I really should have thought to do this before now."
[X] Reassure Homura by explaining why we believe what we believe. Be thorough, be detailed, provide examples, logos not pathos.
-[X] Detail to Homura wish-magic psychology, particularly wish rejection, so she doesn't have to take your argument on faith and can apply the reasoning herself.
[X] Case studies:
-[X] Mami's magic is based around ties to life, after she wished to live. As a result, she can't forget the pain caused by severed bonds.
-[X] Sayaka wished to be useful, so that she could be part of a team. Her powers are great given our support to build up, but would have been useless if she was solo.
-[X] Kirika wished to help Oriko, and received the power to turn off powers. That was what convinced Oriko that she didn't need to rely on her visions of the future.
-[X] Oriko started out wanting control and her own death, due to her family issues. She wished to know the meaning of her life, but the only meaning she could find was in suicidal martyrdom, which her power obliged.
--[X] She gave up those motives and lost that power. This power is driven by different motives, namely satisfaction with reality and a desire to enjoy it in the moment.
--[X] Oriko's wish rejection started right after you apologized for threatening to witch Kirika, and Oriko apologized for her own actions. Earnest regret for one's wish is the surest form of rejection. She lost her precognition, and suffered as she thought she must.
I think that @Vebyast 's section is dangerously vague here. If we want Sabrina to bring up these examples, we should make it clear what their purpose actually is: It's not at all obvious to me how bringing up Hijiri is meant to support our position, for example.
[X] Work through the technical considerations. This power is not proactive. For defending Madoka you actually prefer actionable info about the real world rather than hypotheticals and vague warnings. Clairvoyance is less dangerous of a power even if she did mean to attack. -[X] You're open to discussing additional safety measures too, but that discussion should happen with Sayaka and Hitomi's input.
-[X] You're here to help make sure things can be fixed, most of all to help Homura. Turning Oriko from an enemy into an ally, from a threat to an additional layer of protection, that seems like fixing things.
[X] Remain in timestop to continue conversation.
And I think bringing up that Sayaka is on Homura's side here is important, both because of the other topics we want to discuss later, and because of the simple fact that pushing that bond is a good idea in general.
Honestly, RE: Sayaka being on Homura's side, I'm rereading the thread and I'm starting to think that that point is no less important than anything relating to magic and wish changes.
I think one of Homura's big hang ups, not just here but in general, is that she doesn't see how people can change. She was vaguely shocked when Sayaka accepted a grief seed from her at all after first becoming a magical girl, and this reaction kinda feels like it's coming from the same place.
Dropping an "Even Sayaka said today that she actively considers you a friend." as part of a direct argument about that point seems like it would go a long way. The functions of magic can be a strong supporting argument for how people change, but it is about the people, in the end.
random thought, dunno if it's come up before:
so we can feed hope-infused magic to a clear seed, and other grief controllers could transfer or 'feed' grief to soul gems; so could we feed hope to soul gems?
also, I agree that Sayaka being given the chance to grow and change her stance on people (Homu and Oriko) will probably be impactful. Homura keeps living the same—what is it? A month? Two?—which under most circumstances isn't enough time for teenage girls to process why they think the way they do, take in new information, and change their view.
i want to give homu and mami a hug; they—and others, but i care about them the most—'re so good but haven't been given the chance until Sabrina crashed in.
random thought, dunno if it's come up before:
so we can feed hope-infused magic to a clear seed, and other grief controllers could transfer or 'feed' grief to soul gems; so could we feed hope to soul gems?
also, I agree that Sayaka being given the chance to grow and change her stance on people (Homu and Oriko) will probably be impactful. Homura keeps living the same—what is it? A month? Two?—which under most circumstances isn't enough time for teenage girls to process why they think the way they do, take in new information, and change their view.
i want to give homu and mami a hug; they—and others, but i care about them the most—'re so good but haven't been given the chance until Sabrina crashed in.
That or pure hope would cut through the grief like a candle in a dark room leaving you with just hope.
Or you could go inside out and have hope and grief co exist. Grief isn't the same thing as despair - it can coexist with hope. Of course that might just be wording and the like.
An explosion is also entirely too possible. Because magic is weird. Kinda makes me wish we could grill Kyubey without having to worry about half truths and mind games. 15 minutes of total honesty and holding nothing back from mini Mephistopheles could answer so many questions.
That or pure hope would cut through the grief like a candle in a dark room leaving you with just hope.
Or you could go inside out and have hope and grief co exist. Grief isn't the same thing as despair - it can coexist with hope. Of course that might just be wording and the like.
An explosion is also entirely too possible. Because magic is weird. Kinda makes me wish we could grill Kyubey without having to worry about half truths and mind games. 15 minutes of total honesty and holding nothing back from mini Mephistopheles could answer so many questions.
yet another reason we should really kick the dependent incubator project into troubleshooting and testing, jyuubey wouldn't sell out out to the collective as far as we know, and having an inside incubator who actualy understands the puella magi system could solve so many problems, and cut out the long long process of us trying to reverse engineer an entire branch of physics/metaphysics/sufficiently advanced alien technology with our frankly hilarious lack of tools, prerequisite knowledge, and manpower
[edit] that and the fact that even if by some miracle the cabbit gives us a straight answer instead of being g cryptic or telling us a half truth or just straight up refusing to answer our questions, cause honestly why would he? he could only stand to lose from telling us, a grief controller who foesnt need to fight for her life and who frankly has the best damn shot at actually figuring out dewitching, critical information about the system that would only push us closer to our goals, goals that if we achieve, boom the collective loses earth cause suddenly nobody is witching out anymore.
even if he for some miracle doesnt do any of that we are dealing with the devil, like Faust and stuff, he's likely going to ask us for information or something, idk,
and given how much world shattering damage he can cause from just a single piece of info, like homura mentioning that madoka exists, or being able to observe the law of cycles, or figuring out that homura has timestop-
oh f#&@. he knows homura has timestop, that mean he knows that homura isn't from this timeline, which means if he's noticed how attached to madoka she is (which is pretty obvious even if you aren't omnipresent) then he must have put two and two together and realized why madokas potential is so freakishly high
I don't think emotions should really be expected to act like matter and energy. Instead, I'd assume that any mix would interact like emotions do, just physically in the real world, instead of internally within the mind.
"Infusing hope into grief" basically describes the process of enchanting grief and what we see of grief enchantment works just fine. Magic isn't quite the same thing as emotion, but despite what we call it, a lot of what the hope-infused magic we have is seems to be is really just magic with memories, sensations, and other contexts attached to it rather than being bare.
So, rather than mutual annihilation, I'd assume the result of such an infusion would probably end up bittersweet. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if it ended up as something like the stuff in Homura's soul gem at the end of Rebellion. (You are combining what hurts with what is precious to you after all, and that's kinda what Homura describes there: A hurt where even the hurt is precious to you because of what it means to you.)
------------------
Unrelated, I want to explore magic constructs during this enchantment session. Our creation of wings out of magic makes we wonder if we could make a long ranged tracking construct out of those same kinda of emotions, and likewise if we could make the wings work by filling them with the joys of flying free and going wherever we wished without boundaries instead of our feelings for our friends.
That's going to be done next update. We're handling this properly, rather than crush-rushing through everything and just expecting Homura to be okay with it.
Hmm. I think I can improve the current vote a bit.
[X] "Okay, I... I really should have thought to do this before now."
[X] Reassure Homura by explaining why we believe what we believe. Be thorough, be detailed, provide examples, logos not pathos.
-[X] Detail to Homura wish-magic psychology, particularly wish rejection, so she doesn't have to take your argument on faith and can apply the reasoning herself.
[X] Case studies:
-[X] Mami's magic is based around ties to life, after she wished to live. As a result, she can't forget the pain caused by severed bonds.
-[X] Sayaka wished to be useful, so that she could be part of a team. Her powers are great given our support to build up, but would have been useless if she was solo.
-[X] Kirika wished to help Oriko, and received the power to turn off powers. That was what convinced Oriko that she didn't need to rely on her visions of the future.
-[X] Oriko started out wanting control and her own death, due to her family issues. She wished to know the meaning of her life, but the only meaning she could find was in suicidal martyrdom, which her power obliged.
--[X] She gave up those motives and lost that power. This power is driven by different motives, namely satisfaction with reality and a desire to enjoy it in the moment.
--[X] Oriko's wish rejection started right after you apologized for threatening to witch Kirika, and Oriko apologized for her own actions. Earnest regret for one's wish is the surest form of rejection. She lost her precognition, and suffered as she thought she must.
I think that @Vebyast 's section is dangerously vague here. If we want Sabrina to bring up these examples, we should make it clear what their purpose actually is: It's not at all obvious to me how bringing up Hijiri is meant to support our position, for example.
[X] Work through the technical considerations. This power is not proactive. For defending Madoka you actually prefer actionable info about the real world rather than hypotheticals and vague warnings. Clairvoyance is less dangerous of a power even if she did mean to attack. -[X] You're open to discussing additional safety measures too, but that discussion should happen with Sayaka and Hitomi's input.
-[X] You're here to help make sure things can be fixed, most of all to help Homura. Turning Oriko from an enemy into an ally, from a threat to an additional layer of protection, that seems like fixing things.
[X] Remain in timestop to continue conversation.
And I think bringing up that Sayaka is on Homura's side here is important, both because of the other topics we want to discuss later, and because of the simple fact that pushing that bond is a good idea in general.
I've only just woken up (less than five hours of sleep, and horrific nightmares waking one up and ensuring you won't get any more sleep are Fun), but I'll give this a look-over as soon as I'm more awake.
Though I will add the bit about safety measures.
EDIT: Spliced in the additional details, though can we get some more details on the other girls in that list? Also details on wish rejection psychology? I would look to do, but my brain is scrambled and fried.
A strange thought occurred to me, while we're on the topic of wishes changing and the powers associated with the wish changing with them.
Given that Homura traded her Shield for the Bow and Arrow after Madoka rewrote the universe and her wish changed from "I wish I can meet Miss Kaname all over again, but this time instead of her protecting me, I want to be strong enough to protect her!" to "Those are my feelings towards Madoka! That's why, once more, lend me power! Not as the shield that protects Madoka but as the power that smites anyone who threatens her!".... if Homura's views on how to protect Madoka change on their own accord... would Homura naturally lose her Shield and gain her Black Bow and Energy Arrows? Or would her new powers manifest as something else?
To be clear, this is a thought exercise. I am not advocating nudging her in this direction, and certainly not while Walpurgisnacht looms on the horizon. Rather, given that a lot of our discussions have been about untangling Homura's issues with both herself and her friends/ enemies amongst other things... her wish suddenly changing of its own accord would be something to keep in mind.
We've been approaching this whole Oriko-Homura thing wrongly the whole time. We're trying to convince Homura that Oriko isn't a dangerous, killing lunatic... But it's not Oriko who wasn't that. It's Kirika who's had the self-interest in the pair. It's Kirika who prevented Oriko from ending up dead. It's Kirika who is trying to save Oriko from herself. It's Kirika who is the reason Oriko isn't a threat to Madoka. Alone, precog!Oriko (the only Oriko that Homura ever knew, and the one we've had) is-was a dangerous, suicidal nutjob! It's Kirika that's caused any of that to change. It's Kirika who's doing the job of digging Oriko out of her hole, it's Kirika who is playing the Homura or Sabrina to Oriko's Madoka or Mami -- but Homura doesn't know or see any of that, because Kirika takes back stage and all Homura has to say about her is that she's crazy!
So yeah uh do something around that please?
E: seriously we are the only person who has ever interacted with Kirika without Oriko being involved. Full stop.
EE: I know nothing about the current vote so don't take this as necessarily criticism of that, but just, like, in general.
We're approaching this whole Oriko-Homura thing wrongly, and we have been the whole time. We're trying to convince Homura that Oriko isn't a dangerous, killing lunatic... But it's not Oriko who wasn't that. It's Kirika who's had the self-interest in the pair. It's Kirika who prevented Oriko from ending up dead. It's Kirika who is trying to save Oriko from herself. It's Kirika who is the reason Oriko isn't a threat to Madoka. Alone, precog!Oriko (the only Oriko that Homura ever knew, and the one we've had) is-was a dangerous, suicidal nutjob! It's Kirika that's caused any of that to change. It's Kirika who's doing the job of digging Oriko out of her hole, it's Kirika who is playing the Homura or Sabrina to Oriko's Madoka or Mami -- but Homura doesn't know or see any of that, because Kirika takes back stage and all Homura has to say about her is that she's crazy!
More concisely: Oriko isn't calling the shots any more. There's a reason we're calling them the Kures rather than the Mikunis. Oriko herself accepts the name. And whatever Homura thinks about Oriko, Kirika is about as dangerous as a particularly enthusiastic puppy. I don't think that the vote needs significant alteration, but an addition to our analysis of Oriko's psychology is probably warranted.
More concisely: Oriko isn't calling the shots any more. There's a reason we're calling them the Kures rather than the Mikunis. Oriko herself accepts the name. And whatever Homura thinks about Oriko, Kirika is about as dangerous as a particularly enthusiastic puppy. I don't think that the vote needs significant alteration, but an addition to our analysis of Oriko's psychology is probably warranted.
A strange thought occurred to me, while we're on the topic of wishes changing and the powers associated with the wish changing with them.
Given that Homura traded her Shield for the Bow and Arrow after Madoka rewrote the universe and her wish changed from "I wish I can meet Miss Kaname all over again, but this time instead of her protecting me, I want to be strong enough to protect her!" to "Those are my feelings towards Madoka! That's why, once more, lend me power! Not as the shield that protects Madoka but as the power that smites anyone who threatens her!".... if Homura's views on how to protect Madoka change on their own accord... would Homura naturally lose her Shield and gain her Black Bow and Energy Arrows? Or would her new powers manifest as something else?
To be clear, this is a thought exercise. I am not advocating nudging her in this direction, and certainly not while Walpurgisnacht looms on the horizon. Rather, given that a lot of our discussions have been about untangling Homura's issues with both herself and her friends/ enemies amongst other things... her wish suddenly changing of its own accord would be something to keep in mind.
Absolutely probably not. Oriko's wish didn't actually CHANGE, per se. She's just pursuing a different expression of it.
The fuckiness with Homura's bow and arrow is that, due to all sorts of idiosyncrasies and special exceptions, she made a second wish and kind of broke the entire space-time continuum because of it.
Okay, I'm going to add that insight into the vote. Also, I've talked to @Firnagzen in private, and he's told me that the additional detail that's been added on this vote is preferable. So vote-bloat for details here is QM-approved.
[X] "Okay, I... I really should have done this before now, sorta like I did earlier today with Sayaka. I'm going to explain what I know about the dynamics at work and how that's informed my thinking, and more details on what I've done. I've asked you to trust me time and time again, and I've taken it for granted time and time again."
-[X] Subtext: "I've helped to change others already" and "We're partners"
-[X] Grief chairs and table, this is going to take a while. Use grief to provide visuals where appropriate. Adjust order of topics as needed to fit best flow.
[X] Try to reassure Homura by explaining why we believe what we believe. Be thorough, be detailed, be professional, be patient, don't pressure, provide examples, logos not pathos, you're wanting her to see and check your reasoning. You're working together, so you need to work together, which means you need to share information. Whenever you got something through meta-knowledge say as much and explain the metaknowledge -- after all, it's knowledge Madoka gave you, so it's important.
-[X] Detail to Homura wish-magic psychology, particularly wish rejection, so she doesn't have to take your argument on faith and can apply the reasoning herself.
--[X] Case studies:
---[X] Mami's magic is based around ties to life, after she wished to live. As a result, she can't forget the pain caused by severed bonds.
---[X] Sayaka wished to be useful, so that she could be part of a team. Her powers are great given our support to build up, but would have been useless if she was solo. She wants to work together this time, and has even said to you earlier today that she considers Homura a friend whom she trusts.
---[X] Kyouko's literal disillusionment, Yuki's magic being "friendly", Yuma getting healing after her abused background, your own control issues. Homura's desire to go back and have more time with her friend.
---[X] Oriko started out wanting control and her own death, due to her family issues. She wished to know the meaning of her life, but the only meaning she could find was in suicidal martyrdom, which her power obliged.
----[X] She gave up those motives and lost that power. This power is driven by different motives, namely satisfaction with reality and a desire to enjoy it in the moment.
----[X] Oriko's wish rejection started shortly after you apologized for threatening to witch Kirika, and Oriko apologized for her own actions. Earnest regret for one's wish is the surest form of rejection. She lost her precognition, and suffered as she thought she must.
---[X] Normally Kirika wishes to be someone Oriko could love, and gets time-slowing powers to let her get all the time she can with Oriko. This time, Kirika wished to help Oriko, and received the power to turn off powers. That was what convinced Oriko that she didn't need to rely on her visions of the future.
----[X] Explain how the dynamic between Kirika and Oriko results in either Kirika enabling Oriko's recklessness, or Kirika holding it back. How it was only after Kirika's inevitable death in other timeline that Oriko went completely crazed. Explain how Kirika has been helping you talk Oriko around, to stop her from seeking "suicide-by-mage". There are reasons you call them the Kures, not the Mikunis, and one of them is because Oriko isn't calling the shots any more. Everyone always talks to Oriko, but you've also talked to Kirika. Kirika can be persuaded to sway Oriko, and Oriko is persuaded by Kirika and things involving Kirika. Explain spraybottle incident as an example.
-[X] You haven't been idle during your regular check-ins with the Kures either. You've been steadily working to reform Oriko. You're not simply trusting that she's changed, you've been actively working toward it, and you're not letting that blind you to the possible risks.
-[X] Work through the technical considerations. This power is not proactive. For defending Madoka you actually prefer actionable info about the real world rather than hypotheticals and vague warnings. Clairvoyance is less dangerous of a power even if she did mean to attack.
-[X] You're open to discussing additional safety measures too, but that discussion should happen with Sayaka and Hitomi's input.
-[X] You're here to help make sure things can be fixed, most of all to help Homura. Turning Oriko from an enemy into an ally, from a threat to an additional layer of protection, that seems like fixing things.
[X] Remain in timestop to continue conversation onto other topics.
Adhoc vote count started by Godwinson on Mar 29, 2019 at 4:28 AM, finished with 57 posts and 13 votes.
[X] "Okay, I... I really should have thought to do this before now. I'm going to explain what I know and how that's informed my thinking, and more details on what I've done. I've asked you to trust me time and time again, and I've taken it for granted."
-[X] Grief chairs and table, this is going to take a while. Use grief to provide visuals where appropriate.
[X] Try to reassure Homura by explaining why we believe what we believe. Be thorough, be detailed, be professional, be patient, provide examples, logos not pathos, you're wanting her to see and check your reasoning. You're working together, so you need to work together. Whenever you got something through meta-knowledge say as much and explain the metaknowledge -- after all, it's knowledge Madoka gave you, so it's important.
-[X] Detail to Homura wish-magic psychology, particularly wish rejection, so she doesn't have to take your argument on faith and can apply the reasoning herself.
--[X] Case studies:
---[X] Mami's magic is based around ties to life, after she wished to live. As a result, she can't forget the pain caused by severed bonds.
---[X] Sayaka wished to be useful, so that she could be part of a team. Her powers are great given our support to build up, but would have been useless if she was solo. She wants to work together this time, and has even said to you earlier today that she considers Homura a friend whom she trusts.
---[X] Kyouko's literal disillusionment, Anri, Hijiri, Yuki's magic being "friendly", Yuma getting healing after her abused background, your own control issues. Homura's desire to go back and have more time with her friend.
---[X] Oriko started out wanting control and her own death, due to her family issues. She wished to know the meaning of her life, but the only meaning she could find was in suicidal martyrdom, which her power obliged.
----[X] She gave up those motives and lost that power. This power is driven by different motives, namely satisfaction with reality and a desire to enjoy it in the moment.
----[X] Oriko's wish rejection started right after you apologized for threatening to witch Kirika, and Oriko apologized for her own actions. Earnest regret for one's wish is the surest form of rejection. She lost her precognition, and suffered as she thought she must.
---[X] Normally Kirika wishes to be someone Oriko could love, and gets time-slowing powers to let her get all the time she can with Oriko. This time, Kirika wished to help Oriko, and received the power to turn off powers. That was what convinced Oriko that she didn't need to rely on her visions of the future.
----[X] Explain how the dynamic between Kirika and Oriko results in either Kirika enabling Oriko's recklessness, or Kirika holding it back. How it was only after Kirika's inevitable death in other timeline that Oriko went completely crazed. Explain how Kirika has been helping you talk Oriko around, to stop her from seeking "suicide-by-mage". There are reasons you call them the Kures, not the Mikunis, and one of them is because Oriko isn't calling the shots any more. Everyone always talks to Oriko, but you've also talked to Kirika. Kirika can be persuaded to sway Oriko, and Oriko is persuaded by Kirika and things involving Kirika.
-[X] You haven't been idle during your regular check-ins with the Kures either. You've been steadily working to reform Oriko. You're not simply trusting that she's changed, you've been actively working toward it, and you're not letting that blind you to the possible risks.
-[X] Work through the technical considerations. This power is not proactive. For defending Madoka you actually prefer actionable info about the real world rather than hypotheticals and vague warnings. Clairvoyance is less dangerous of a power even if she did mean to attack.
-[X] You're open to discussing additional safety measures too, but that discussion should happen with Sayaka and Hitomi's input.
-[X] You're here to help make sure things can be fixed, most of all to help Homura. Turning Oriko from an enemy into an ally, from a threat to an additional layer of protection, that seems like fixing things.
[X] Remain in timestop to continue conversation onto other topics.
[X] "Okay, I... I really should have thought to do this before now."
[X] Reassure Homura by explaining why we believe what we believe. Be thorough, be detailed, provide examples, logos not pathos.
-[X] Detail to Homura wish-magic psychology, particularly wish rejection, so she doesn't have to take your argument on faith and can apply the reasoning herself. [X] Case studies: -[X] Mami's magic is based around ties to life, after she wished to live. As a result, she can't forget the pain caused by severed bonds. -[X] Sayaka wished to be useful, so that she could be part of a team. Her powers are great given our support to build up, but would have been useless if she was solo. -[X] Kirika wished to help Oriko, and received the power to turn off powers. That was what convinced Oriko that she didn't need to rely on her visions of the future. -[X] Oriko started out wanting control and her own death, due to her family issues. She wished to know the meaning of her life, but the only meaning she could find was in suicidal martyrdom, which her power obliged. --[X] She gave up those motives and lost that power. This power is driven by different motives, namely satisfaction with reality and a desire to enjoy it in the moment. --[X] Oriko's wish rejection started right after you apologized for threatening to witch Kirika, and Oriko apologized for her own actions. Earnest regret for one's wish is the surest form of rejection. She lost her precognition, and suffered as she thought she must.
[X] Work through the technical considerations. This power is not proactive. For defending Madoka you actually prefer actionable info about the real world rather than hypotheticals and vague warnings. Clairvoyance is less dangerous of a power even if she did mean to attack.
-[X] You're open to discussing additional safety measures too, but that discussion should happen with Sayaka and Hitomi's input.
-[X] You're here to help make sure things can be fixed, most of all to help Homura. Turning Oriko from an enemy into an ally, from a threat to an additional layer of protection, that seems like fixing things.
[X] Remain in timestop to continue conversation.
random thought, dunno if it's come up before:
so we can feed hope-infused magic to a clear seed, and other grief controllers could transfer or 'feed' grief to soul gems; so could we feed hope to soul gems?
Don't just feed a grief-seed random emotions. Feed her emotionally-imbued magic that's directed at the girl who is the grief seed, the twisted, pained, depressed, grief-stricken echo of the magical girl. Convey the following via emotions:
"You're not alone any more."
"I'm here, I'll help."
"Things can get better."
"I care about you, and I want to help."
A. Kirika
B. Oriko
C. Sabrina
D. The notion that a relationship must have exactly one pants-wearer is unhealthy and at least a little sexist
E. All of the above
I prefer D, but I will grant that Kirika wields the metaphorical spray bottle.
.... for some reason I picture Kirika and Homura talking turning into discussions on how to deal with approaching various scenarios to keep their interests safe.
