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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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DB_Explorer said:
[JK] Jump off the platform to avoid the questions



... now waiting for Sayaka and Homura to have a sleep over only for Sayaka to play the looping arc of Haruhi Suzumiya : p

Sayaka: ..... Homura, did you just unload a MP5 into my TV?
Homura:..... Maybe
Kyoko: Blueberry, I heard you were serving food and..... am I interrupting?
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Never play Endless Eight when Homura is around, good grief people.
 
God, I would actually love if we could just have Homura tell Sayaka everything. From a meta-perspective we know Sayaka can handle the Witchbomb due to Magireco characterizing her as being able to prioritize a mission or problem, and that iteration of Sayaka doesn't have the benefit of being friends with the best hope for Dewitching, ever.

[x] Godwinson
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Mar 15, 2019 at 6:55 PM, finished with 150081 posts and 24 votes.
  • [x] Answer her. That's a good part of it. Yes.
    [x] Why? The short answer is Homura cares for Madoka very much and is doing the best she can to keep her safe.
    [x] The long answer is complicated and involves things I can't tell you and aren't mine to tell. I was hoping one day she'd tell you herself.
    [x] Homura has her reasons. They are good ones and they'll make complete sense to you once you have the context but only then.
    [x] Sayaka? She's a good person. Just... be patient with her okay? Things are hard for her.
    [X] Pause flight, turn windows opaque. It's not a privacy field, but it's the next best thing.
    [X] Intent: Establish that this topic is kept secret to protect Homura from emotional damage, and involves other secrets too.
    [X] Tone: Frustrated with your inability to act and fix things, sympathetic to Sayaka's right to ask (it's her best friend who is the target of this, after all), and sombre empathy for Homura's reasons for keeping quiet.
    [X] "Goddess, I would love to be able to talk about it, but it would be a breach of Homura's trust, and it's hard enough for her to be able to trust me -- trust anyone -- as it is. She's been burned by opening up to people before, and been called a liar and a traitor because of it. Even more, talking about this would get into some really painful, traumatic stuff for Homura, so I don't feel right trying to pressure her into talking about it. I've been talking to her about all of it, trying to help, but there's only so much that talking can do when dealing with years of trauma."
    -[X] "It would also mean getting into that other secret, the one that's bad enough that if Chiyoda is using memory magic toward it... I don't approve, but I can understand someone using it on enemies, allies, and friends."
    [X] Null
    [X] It's one of those things that's not mine to tell.
    [X] I'd tell you to ask Homura about it, but she's probably not ready. It's difficult for her to talk about it even with me, but I am watching out for Homura, and Madoka too.
    [X] Do let me know if you think Homura's behavior is troubling Madoka, you know her better than I do.
    [X] Sayaka did notice
    -[X] How does she think Madoka feels about that?
    -[X] Is she aware what sort of answer she is asking for?
    -[X] Would she leave it to us to schedule a time for her to ask Homura?
    -[X] We want to help them during a complicated conversation that might result.
    -[X] We can't speak for Homura, but we can vouch for her.
    --[X] By the Goddess.
    [X] Consider Chinese IRC contact with Sayaka
    [X] Enchant some Grief
    [X] Answer
    - [X] Goddess, I wish I could talk about it. But it isn't my story to tell. Homura, well, you know how private she is about herself. Talking to you about any of that, revealing anything, no matter how little... It would be a breach of her trust. I'm sorry. All I can say is she has her reasons for the things she does, how she acts, everything. Looking out for Madoka, well, she has reasons for that too. I hope she'll be able to tell you them herself, eventually. {Vaguely This, I'll Let The Thread Threadpilot. Or Sabrina. Or Firn.}
    [X] If there's time left before school ends, go to a library and contact the Japanese meguca IRC. Standard greeting protocols.
    -[X] Sayaka's clone can join the important outreach/shitposting if she wants.
    [X] How do you answer Sayaka?
    - [x] Confirm in vague terms. Reassure Sayaka about Homura's intentions. You want Sayaka to support Homura, not go digging and set her off.
    - [x] Apologize for not being able to say more. You hope that Homura will be able to tell everyone everything one day, but for now Homura trusts you to keep her secrets.
    - [x] In the meantime, assure Sayaka that Homura is a good person and doing what she can to help. Everyone deserves helping, but she deserves more than most.
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Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Mar 15, 2019 at 7:02 PM, finished with 150081 posts and 24 votes.
  • [x] Answer her. That's a good part of it. Yes.
    [x] Why? The short answer is Homura cares for Madoka very much and is doing the best she can to keep her safe.
    [x] The long answer is complicated and involves things I can't tell you and aren't mine to tell. I was hoping one day she'd tell you herself.
    [x] Homura has her reasons. They are good ones and they'll make complete sense to you once you have the context but only then.
    [x] Sayaka? She's a good person. Just... be patient with her okay? Things are hard for her.
    [X] Pause flight, turn windows opaque. It's not a privacy field, but it's the next best thing.
    [X] Intent: Establish that this topic is kept secret to protect Homura from emotional damage, and involves other secrets too.
    [X] Tone: Frustrated with your inability to act and fix things, sympathetic to Sayaka's right to ask (it's her best friend who is the target of this, after all), and sombre empathy for Homura's reasons for keeping quiet.
    [X] "Goddess, I would love to be able to talk about it, but it would be a breach of Homura's trust, and it's hard enough for her to be able to trust me -- trust anyone -- as it is. She's been burned by opening up to people before, and been called a liar and a traitor because of it. Even more, talking about this would get into some really painful, traumatic stuff for Homura, so I don't feel right trying to pressure her into talking about it. I've been talking to her about all of it, trying to help, but there's only so much that talking can do when dealing with years of trauma."
    -[X] "It would also mean getting into that other secret, the one that's bad enough that if Chiyoda is using memory magic toward it... I don't approve, but I can understand someone using it on enemies, allies, and friends."
    [X] Null
    [X] It's one of those things that's not mine to tell.
    [X] I'd tell you to ask Homura about it, but she's probably not ready. It's difficult for her to talk about it even with me, but I am watching out for Homura, and Madoka too.
    [X] Do let me know if you think Homura's behavior is troubling Madoka, you know her better than I do.
    [X] Sayaka did notice
    -[X] How does she think Madoka feels about that?
    -[X] Is she aware what sort of answer she is asking for?
    -[X] Would she leave it to us to schedule a time for her to ask Homura?
    -[X] We want to help them during a complicated conversation that might result.
    -[X] We can't speak for Homura, but we can vouch for her.
    --[X] By the Goddess.
    [X] Consider Chinese IRC contact with Sayaka
    [X] Enchant some Grief
    [X] Answer
    - [X] Goddess, I wish I could talk about it. But it isn't my story to tell. Homura, well, you know how private she is about herself. Talking to you about any of that, revealing anything, no matter how little... It would be a breach of her trust. I'm sorry. All I can say is she has her reasons for the things she does, how she acts, everything. Looking out for Madoka, well, she has reasons for that too. I hope she'll be able to tell you them herself, eventually. {Vaguely This, I'll Let The Thread Threadpilot. Or Sabrina. Or Firn.}
    [X] If there's time left before school ends, go to a library and contact the Japanese meguca IRC. Standard greeting protocols.
    -[X] Sayaka's clone can join the important outreach/shitposting if she wants.
    [X] How do you answer Sayaka?
    - [x] Confirm in vague terms. Reassure Sayaka about Homura's intentions. You want Sayaka to support Homura, not go digging and set her off.
    - [x] Apologize for not being able to say more. You hope that Homura will be able to tell everyone everything one day, but for now Homura trusts you to keep her secrets.
    - [x] In the meantime, assure Sayaka that Homura is a good person and doing what she can to help. Everyone deserves helping, but she deserves more than most.
Click to expand...

Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Mar 15, 2019 at 10:51 PM, finished with 150084 posts and 24 votes.
  • [x] Answer her. That's a good part of it. Yes.
    [x] Why? The short answer is Homura cares for Madoka very much and is doing the best she can to keep her safe.
    [x] The long answer is complicated and involves things I can't tell you and aren't mine to tell. I was hoping one day she'd tell you herself.
    [x] Homura has her reasons. They are good ones and they'll make complete sense to you once you have the context but only then.
    [x] Sayaka? She's a good person. Just... be patient with her okay? Things are hard for her.
    [X] Pause flight, turn windows opaque. It's not a privacy field, but it's the next best thing.
    [X] Intent: Establish that this topic is kept secret to protect Homura from emotional damage, and involves other secrets too.
    [X] Tone: Frustrated with your inability to act and fix things, sympathetic to Sayaka's right to ask (it's her best friend who is the target of this, after all), and sombre empathy for Homura's reasons for keeping quiet.
    [X] "Goddess, I would love to be able to talk about it, but it would be a breach of Homura's trust, and it's hard enough for her to be able to trust me -- trust anyone -- as it is. She's been burned by opening up to people before, and been called a liar and a traitor because of it. Even more, talking about this would get into some really painful, traumatic stuff for Homura, so I don't feel right trying to pressure her into talking about it. I've been talking to her about all of it, trying to help, but there's only so much that talking can do when dealing with years of trauma."
    -[X] "It would also mean getting into that other secret, the one that's bad enough that if Chiyoda is using memory magic toward it... I don't approve, but I can understand someone using it on enemies, allies, and friends."
    [X] Pause flight, turn windows opaque. It's not a privacy field, but it's the next best thing.
    [X] Intent: Establish that this topic is kept secret to protect Homura from emotional damage.
    [X] Tone: Frustrated with your inability to find a better solution to the problems at hand, supportive of Sayaka's right to ask (she has good reasons), deep empathy mixed with admiration for Homura.
    [X] You'd really like to explain everything to her about it, actually, but doing so would involve outright harming Homura.
    -[X] The thing is -- and she should emphatically not speak of this to anyone, as you're only telling her it because you aren't certain it's safe to not -- that Homura's past is outright legendary, and like many legends it is not happy. She has suffered evils almost beyond belief. One result of this is that she doesn't want her past talked about -- at all, if possible. Another is that you are deeply unwilling to do wrong by her. She is owed that, and by far, far more people than just you.
    --[X] To be clear, you don't feel that Sayaka has done something "wrong" here -- on the contrary, she has good reasons to be asking these questions. The problem is the collision between the good reasons on both sides. You've honestly been expecting it, but... it hasn't made dealing with it any easier.
    ---[X] ... If she starts treating Homura like she's been Hitomi, you will have words. She needs friends and the ability to take things at her own pace.
    [X] It's one of those things that's not mine to tell.
    [X] I'd tell you to ask Homura about it, but she's probably not ready. It's difficult for her to talk about it even with me, but I am watching out for Homura, and Madoka too.
    [X] Do let me know if you think Homura's behavior is troubling Madoka, you know her better than I do.
    [X] Sayaka did notice
    -[X] How does she think Madoka feels about that?
    -[X] Is she aware what sort of answer she is asking for?
    -[X] Would she leave it to us to schedule a time for her to ask Homura?
    -[X] We want to help them during a complicated conversation that might result.
    -[X] We can't speak for Homura, but we can vouch for her.
    --[X] By the Goddess.
    [X] Consider Chinese IRC contact with Sayaka
    [X] Enchant some Grief
    [X] Answer
    - [X] Goddess, I wish I could talk about it. But it isn't my story to tell. Homura, well, you know how private she is about herself. Talking to you about any of that, revealing anything, no matter how little... It would be a breach of her trust. I'm sorry. All I can say is she has her reasons for the things she does, how she acts, everything. Looking out for Madoka, well, she has reasons for that too. I hope she'll be able to tell you them herself, eventually. {Vaguely This, I'll Let The Thread Threadpilot. Or Sabrina. Or Firn.}
    [X] If there's time left before school ends, go to a library and contact the Japanese meguca IRC. Standard greeting protocols.
    -[X] Sayaka's clone can join the important outreach/shitposting if she wants.
    [X] How do you answer Sayaka?
    - [x] Confirm in vague terms. Reassure Sayaka about Homura's intentions. You want Sayaka to support Homura, not go digging and set her off.
    - [x] Apologize for not being able to say more. You hope that Homura will be able to tell everyone everything one day, but for now Homura trusts you to keep her secrets.
    - [x] In the meantime, assure Sayaka that Homura is a good person and doing what she can to help. Everyone deserves helping, but she deserves more than most.
Click to expand...
 
We talked with Homura about Sayaka this morning, while we were committing Grand Theft Arms & Material on a scale hitherto unheard of. (Seriously, those missile launchers are 40 million a pop. And that's before we get into... everything else.)

We explained Sayaka to Homura. That should be still fresh in Mom's mind, and maybe make her open to opening up? Or so I hope and pray, anyway.
 
Haven't read the thread yet because I want to provide some independent ideas.

Our goal here is to get Sayaka in a state of mind about Homura that will help when Homura starts to open up later, right? Why not just give Sayaka some tips, in sufficiently vague terms that we don't give Sayaka any really concrete details? Some brainstormed options, not necessarily good and certainly not constituting a vote, some of them are probably even mutually exclusive:


[] Advise Sayaka not to dig too hard. Homura has reasons to expect suspicious hostility from people like Sayaka.

[] Magical girls aren't necessarily as old as they look.

[] Madoka reminds Homura of someone she cared about, sort of.

Alternatively:
[NO ACTUALLY SUPER DON'T] Yeah, in an alternate universe they'd totally be a Thing. Homura's too traumatized in this one, though.
 
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Vebyast said:
[] Magical girls aren't necessarily as old as they look.
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This really doesn't work, because it instead implies some really weird/creepy things about why Homura is still attending middle school, or comes too close to outright telling her that Homura is a time-traveler.
Adhoc vote count started by Godwinson on Mar 10, 2019 at 7:38 AM, finished with 149961 posts and 13 votes.
  • [X] Pause flight, turn windows opaque. It's not a privacy field, but it's the next best thing.
    [X] Intent: Establish that this topic is kept secret to protect Homura from emotional damage, and involves other secrets too.
    [X] Tone: Frustrated with your inability to act and fix things, sympathetic to Sayaka's right to ask (it's her best friend who is the target of this, after all), and sombre empathy for Homura's reasons for keeping quiet.
    [X] "Goddess, I would love to be able to talk about it, but it would be a breach of Homura's trust, and it's hard enough for her to be able to trust me -- trust anyone -- as it is. She's been burned by opening up to people before, and been called a liar and a traitor because of it. Even more, talking about this would get into some really painful, traumatic stuff for Homura, so I don't feel right trying to pressure her into talking about it. I've been talking to her about all of it, trying to help, but there's only so much that talking can do when dealing with years of trauma."
    -[X] "It would also mean getting into that other secret, the one that's bad enough that if Chiyoda is using memory magic toward it... I don't approve, but I can understand someone using it on enemies, allies, and friends."
    [X] Basically everything of Homura's past is a no-go, although you wish it wasn't.
    -[X] You've seen the same things she has. They make sense, given context... You can't tell her what to think, but this isn't something you'd worry about.
    [X] On a separate note... You can understand Chiyoda's actions, given certain assumptions. Enough that you're not massively upset with her.
    [X] It's one of those things that's not mine to tell.
    [X] I'd tell you to ask Homura about it, but she's probably not ready. It's difficult for her to talk about it even with me, but I am watching out for Homura, and Madoka too.
    [X] Do let me know if you think Homura's behavior is troubling Madoka, you know her better than I do.
    [X] Sayaka did notice
    -[X] How does she think Madoka feels about that?
    -[X] Is she aware what sort of answer she is asking for?
    -[X] Would she leave it to us to schedule a time for her to ask Homura?
    -[X] We want to help them during a complicated conversation that might result.
    -[X] We can't speak for Homura, but we can vouch for her.
    --[X] By the Goddess.
    [X] Consider Chinese IRC contact with Sayaka
    [X] Enchant some Grief
    [X] Your mostly right?
    -[X] Homura would fret terribly and be unhappy yes, and that's not far from my mind...
    -[X] But it also IS really dangerous. You said so yourself "casually superhuman".
    -[X] So what exactly have you noticed?
    -[X] Because there is honestly too much it could be.
    [x] Homura would murder you if she ever heard you telling anyone about her past, so you're afraid you can't tell Sayaka anything other than that the situation is as close to being under control as it's possible for anything related to this colossal clusterfuck to be. Her reasons are as good as anyone's, though, you suppose, so Sayaka should just keep in mind that everyone you're willing to put up with is a Good Person and that everything should make sense eventually.
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Adhoc vote count started by Godwinson on Mar 15, 2019 at 3:28 PM, finished with 150080 posts and 24 votes.
  • [x] Answer her. That's a good part of it. Yes.
    [x] Why? The short answer is Homura cares for Madoka very much and is doing the best she can to keep her safe.
    [x] The long answer is complicated and involves things I can't tell you and aren't mine to tell. I was hoping one day she'd tell you herself.
    [x] Homura has her reasons. They are good ones and they'll make complete sense to you once you have the context but only then.
    [x] Sayaka? She's a good person. Just... be patient with her okay? Things are hard for her.
    [X] Pause flight, turn windows opaque. It's not a privacy field, but it's the next best thing.
    [X] Intent: Establish that this topic is kept secret to protect Homura from emotional damage, and involves other secrets too.
    [X] Tone: Frustrated with your inability to act and fix things, sympathetic to Sayaka's right to ask (it's her best friend who is the target of this, after all), and sombre empathy for Homura's reasons for keeping quiet.
    [X] "Goddess, I would love to be able to talk about it, but it would be a breach of Homura's trust, and it's hard enough for her to be able to trust me -- trust anyone -- as it is. She's been burned by opening up to people before, and been called a liar and a traitor because of it. Even more, talking about this would get into some really painful, traumatic stuff for Homura, so I don't feel right trying to pressure her into talking about it. I've been talking to her about all of it, trying to help, but there's only so much that talking can do when dealing with years of trauma."
    -[X] "It would also mean getting into that other secret, the one that's bad enough that if Chiyoda is using memory magic toward it... I don't approve, but I can understand someone using it on enemies, allies, and friends."
    [X] How do you answer Sayaka?
    - [x] Confirm in vague terms. Reassure Sayaka about Homura's intentions. You want Sayaka to support Homura, not go digging and set her off.
    - [x] Apologize for not being able to say more. You hope that Homura will be able to tell everyone everything one day, but for now Homura trusts you to keep her secrets.
    - [x] In the meantime, assure Sayaka that Homura is a good person and doing what she can to help. Everyone deserves helping, but she deserves more than most.
    [X] It's one of those things that's not mine to tell.
    [X] I'd tell you to ask Homura about it, but she's probably not ready. It's difficult for her to talk about it even with me, but I am watching out for Homura, and Madoka too.
    [X] Do let me know if you think Homura's behavior is troubling Madoka, you know her better than I do.
    [X] Sayaka did notice
    -[X] How does she think Madoka feels about that?
    -[X] Is she aware what sort of answer she is asking for?
    -[X] Would she leave it to us to schedule a time for her to ask Homura?
    -[X] We want to help them during a complicated conversation that might result.
    -[X] We can't speak for Homura, but we can vouch for her.
    --[X] By the Goddess.
    [X] Consider Chinese IRC contact with Sayaka
    [X] Enchant some Grief
    [X] Answer
    - [X] Goddess, I wish I could talk about it. But it isn't my story to tell. Homura, well, you know how private she is about herself. Talking to you about any of that, revealing anything, no matter how little... It would be a breach of her trust. I'm sorry. All I can say is she has her reasons for the things she does, how she acts, everything. Looking out for Madoka, well, she has reasons for that too. I hope she'll be able to tell you them herself, eventually. {Vaguely This, I'll Let The Thread Threadpilot. Or Sabrina. Or Firn.}
    [X] If there's time left before school ends, go to a library and contact the Japanese meguca IRC. Standard greeting protocols.
    -[X] Sayaka's clone can join the important outreach/shitposting if she wants.
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Godwinson said:
This really doesn't work, because it instead implies some really weird/creepy things about why Homura is still attending middle school, or comes too close to outright telling her that Homura is a time-traveler.
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Yeah, figured. Of course, those questions are going to come up anyway given that Homura actually is older than she looks, we might want to put some thought into addressing them or setting up thoughts for Sayaka that'll lead her in better directions.
 
Vebyast said:
Yeah, figured. Of course, those questions are going to come up anyway given that Homura actually is older than she looks, we might want to put some thought into addressing them or setting up thoughts for Sayaka that'll lead her in better directions.
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She's not really older in any way that really matters; her emotional development pretty much froze after the third timeline. We can't exactly tell her "Homura's been suffering for 12 years" anyway without loopbombing because otherwise Sayaka's next question is "Okay then why Madoka specifically?"
 
AuraTwilight said:
God, I would actually love if we could just have Homura tell Sayaka everything. From a meta-perspective we know Sayaka can handle the Witchbomb due to Magireco characterizing her as being able to prioritize a mission or problem, and that iteration of Sayaka doesn't have the benefit of being friends with the best hope for Dewitching, ever.

[x] Godwinson
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This is something we should take up with Homura -- which, by the by, I would dearly love to bring up telling somebody more with her. But meanwhile, here, now, I think we're taking this too deeply.

Godwinson said:
[X] Pause flight, turn windows opaque. It's not a privacy field, but it's the next best thing.

[X] Intent: Establish that this topic is kept secret to protect Homura from emotional damage, and involves other secrets too.
[X] Tone: Frustrated with your inability to act and fix things, sympathetic to Sayaka's right to ask (it's her best friend who is the target of this, after all), and sombre empathy for Homura's reasons for keeping quiet.

[X] "Goddess, I would love to be able to talk about it, but it would be a breach of Homura's trust, and it's hard enough for her to be able to trust me -- trust anyone -- as it is. She's been burned by opening up to people before, and been called a liar and a traitor because of it. Even more, talking about this would get into some really painful, traumatic stuff for Homura, so I don't feel right trying to pressure her into talking about it. I've been talking to her about all of it, trying to help, but there's only so much that talking can do when dealing with years of trauma."
-[X] "It would also mean getting into that other secret, the one that's bad enough that if Chiyoda is using memory magic toward it... I don't approve, but I can understand someone using it on enemies, allies, and friends."
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Versus, well...

Firnagzen said:
She purses her lips, squinting at you.

"Hey," she says. "The real reason Madoka can't come along is because of Homura, right?" She holds her hands up. "I know you've got secrets you can't tell, and I know some of it is because it's hurtful, others because they're not your secrets to tell. But we... kind of hang out every day, and I can see there's something really weird going on there."

She arches an eyebrow at you questioningly.
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The current vote is... it's an overreaction and it's an impulse towards sharing more than we are supposed to. If we want to start sharing things about Homura's past the way many of us have begun to feel (quite vocally) that we should -- as, indeed, the current vote does -- then we should go and tell her that we want to. The current atmosphere where we are voting to share all these things about her past but don't want to push her to agree to having things about her past shared is something I don't like. At all. And while I don't know if that's how things feel like to anyone else... They feel like that to me, honestly.

On that note, to be frank, I feel considerably more strongly about this matter than I'm saying, but... that's another post.

[X] Pause flight, turn windows opaque. It's not a privacy field, but it's the next best thing.
[X] First, just to be clear, even though she's not really suggesting it: Homura will never intentionally hurt any of us absent grievous provocation.
-[X] As long as it's just weird, you're not worried. You see it too, you know what's going on with it. If something less tolerable happens -- it really shouldn't -- you'll step in.
[X] Second, basically everything of Homura's past is a no-go, although you wish it wasn't.
-[X] ... You are worried about inclusiveness, with regards to Madoka. Homura is strongly against, on the basis that involvement is danger. You're skeptical of it being realistic, to think that having Madoka totally uninvolved is a good idea... And it can be hard to find a role for her that doesn't see danger. Homura will push back, but if Sayaka is concerned that Madoka is feeling excluded... That's something you'd need to know.
[X] On a separate note... You can understand Chiyoda's actions, given certain assumptions. Enough that you're not massively upset with her.
 
Damn. I do agree Godwinsons vote does seem a little like overreacting but on the other hand I feel Kai's vote goes too far in the other direction.

Still favor Brina's vote. Just needs to be more softly worded I guess? imo
 
Andmeuths said:
The real danger is playing the Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya, and giving Homura dangerous ideas.
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Maybe. But watching endless eight back to back could probably cause someone to witch out spontaneously without even being a magical girl (proof: I did this and trust me if it had lasted another episode I might have had a psychotic break). If Homura watched it she'd probably explode. Or punch us. Hard.
 
[X] First, just to be clear, even though she's not really suggesting it: Homura will never intentionally hurt any of us absent grievous provocation.
-[X] As long as it's just weird, you're not worried. You see it too, you know what's going on with it. If something less tolerable happens -- it really shouldn't -- you'll step in.
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While I also think Godwinson's vote is overreacting somewhat, that sounds like the kind of thing we say when we're defending Oriko. If I were Sayaka, this would be very concerning.

[X] It's one of those things that's not mine to tell.
[X] I'd tell you to ask Homura about it, but she's probably not ready. It's difficult for her to talk about it even with me, but I am watching out for Homura, and Madoka too.
[X] Do let me know if you think Homura's behavior is troubling Madoka, you know her better than I do.
 
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I believe it's worth remembering that the pan-timeline Omnidoka considered Homura her best friend. Homura troubling Madoka is not especially likely.

Also, I refuse to vote for anything that doesn't include the "Goddess" invocation.
 
SomeOneElse007 said:
Maybe. But watching endless eight back to back could probably cause someone to witch out spontaneously without even being a magical girl (proof: I did this and trust me if it had lasted another episode I might have had a psychotic break). If Homura watched it she'd probably explode. Or punch us. Hard.
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Homura would hate the everloving SHITTTT out of Umineko. It's the worst one for her out of all these timeloop stories mentioned in the thread.
 
@Godwinson - two dialog lines from yours strike me as very valid and strong. The intent I want to present is not "warn her off" today, so I would use them in different context.
The concept I like is to ask Sayaka to follow our lead. I'm hoping for positive action, just delayed to a time we can prepare. Perhaps after she makes her Witchbomb choice, so we don't do everything at once.

No secrets in this one. Do some Privacy if we want theater to make Sayaka more receptive? Be a good Sempai, and a daughter, and a friend.
Ask about Madoka, because Madoka Matters.

[X] Sayaka did notice
-[X] How does she think Madoka feels about that?
-[X] Is she aware what sort of answer she is asking for?
-[X] Would she leave it to us to schedule a time for her to ask Homura?
-[X] We want to help them during a complicated conversation that might result.
-[X] We can't speak for Homura, but we can vouch for her.
--[X] By the Goddess.

[X] Consider Chinese IRC contact with Sayaka
[X] Enchant some Grief


Redshirt Army said:
I was motivated by a few things in making the Japanese IRC the priority.


First of all, Sayaka's still hanging around, and I wanted to include her in the outreach. That means we have to stick to a language she's fluent in - and while her English is pretty good, there's no reason to think she's fluent in Mandarin or Vietnamese, and it's a pretty safe bet that she'd be most comfortable with Japanese.


Second of all, because it's local, if there are any immediate issues or emergencies to deal with, we can help out much more easily than we can if there's an issue in Europe or Africa or wherever.




That's a... questionable way of framing things...
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China?


This contact is over IRC... so it begins as a written format today. Unlike Vietnamese, Sayaka (and most of her classmates, and the general public) CAN be in the loop. @AuraTwilight - you have an education in Japanese, correct? Perhaps I could ask your opinion. As I see it, if both parties try to be understandable, there is a substantial overlap between kanji and standard Chinese. Reading is possible, if awkward. I would think that with Sabrina adding a little annotation, it works. OTOH, these contacts are over IRC. Any girls we talk to are at risk for using English derived net slang, as well.


The other point that you mentioned I would like to prioritize in light of a certain story element. The chances of talking to a group with a teleport specialist in China is large. In this world, they are rather near to us, under the right conditions. If they decide that our offer to reimburse the energy for their trip is honest, some of those girls can be here faster than riding the train from Osaka. As distinct from IRL transit, or our heavy lift reactionless service, Teleport has the possibility of usable arbitrary speed. Even when done as hops, all one needs would be a way to deal with the costs to go global before lunch. Isn't that the way to balance our efforts?

Godwinson said:
I'd missed this line earlier (I'm still sick, and posted right after waking up, so this sort of lapse makes sense) I'd considered putting a suggestion along those lines down in my vote, but I realized that Sayaka just bringing the subject up with Homura would simply make her close off and go on the defensive -- Homura is far too used to hostile suspicion from Sayaka, and has some really bad memories related to trying to talk to people about her secrets. Sayaka has about as much tact and subtlety as Sabrina does, and she doesn't know where the trauma-mines are to navigate that social minefield.
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I think we can safely advance their friendship, because Sayaka is instinctively giving us the chance to help. In this regard, I suggest no particular goals as to "what information Sayaka learns." The win here is to give each party a better position, while causing no distress. For Sayaka, "further inclusion" is even better than "full understanding" without inclusion. As long as she gets the respect of an answer that matches her concerns, she wins. We can see Homura "control her privacy" in every act that doesn't spread her information, but we can choose the path where we add "social success" to her agency. Homura navigating any discussion about her motives without a failure is her win. If Homura can select if she would share, and do it herself, that would be a 100% goal. At realistic levels, "social success" would be receiving Sayaka's feelings without freezing her out. They have a future together in relation to Madoka, and a common goal. With us, they have a moodmaker and all-around wisegirl to get things to work. If Sayaka had any fear for either Madoka or Homura, I think the response would be different, and loud. What she seems to have is engagement, interest - she knows Homura is acting in a certain way, and that protective manner isn't upsetting her. It is the secret of why, and the fact that she is outside of that secret, that we are probably blessed to deal with. Blessed, because it hasn't become jealousy.


These two are really not as experienced with each other as we would like, and that makes for problems to overcome. We can do that in a gentle manner. It might seem odd, but mostly all we need to do is be there to buffer a little. The projected reason is that Sayaka isn't used to the kind of self-restraint her new friendship would thrive upon. But she wants to succeed here, as evidenced by her asking us. Smart.


I would like us to find a way to teach her, and most of that while in Homura's presence. Coaching her to interact with Homura without full disclosure would be half as good. The best honesty is likely to make the best world. Honesty might be that Homura decides not to tell her much at this time. Honesty might be that Homura could keep the infohazards confined, but admit some part of her feeling to Madoka's friend. Well, someday #relationshipgoals, right?
 
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Torgamous said:
I believe it's worth remembering that the pan-timeline Omnidoka considered Homura her best friend. Homura troubling Madoka is not especially likely.

Also, I refuse to vote for anything that doesn't include the "Goddess" invocation.
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I do tend to think that, ultimately, Madoka will be the one handling this issue. But friends can still trouble friends, or do things they don't like. Certainly that's happened in previous timelines with Homura.

That said, the line could maybe be modified. The goal is to avoid dismissing concerns completely, and allow Sayaka to say if she thinks there's a real problem. Obviously we as Sabrina don't think there is one, or else we would have intervened more directly, but as the vote says, Sayaka is closer to Madoka than we are.
 
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[X] Your mostly right?
-[X] Homura would fret terribly and be unhappy yes, and that's not far from my mind...
-[X] But it also IS really dangerous. You said so yourself "casually superhuman".
-[X] So what exactly have you noticed?
-[X] Because there is honestly too much it could be.

I feel like giving Sayaka a straight awnsers would work pretty well.

And that in this instance we should chill a bit before jumping to conclusions.

The other votes are... Kind of frontloading our own baggage onto what Sayaka said.
 
[X] Basically everything of Homura's past is a no-go, although you wish it wasn't.
-[X] You've seen the same things she has. They make sense, given context... You can't tell her what to think, but this isn't something you'd worry about.
[X] On a separate note... You can understand Chiyoda's actions, given certain assumptions. Enough that you're not massively upset with her.

Massive simplification.
 
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