- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Holy shit, we have achieved consensus.
[X] Godwinson
[X] Godwinson
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
So I've been thinking over this post and specifically the supposition that Sabrina's power comes from a link to past!Madoka or the Law of Cycles, as opposed to actually being a conglomerate witch, and the more I think the more I like it. (I mean, we might still be Walpurgisnacht as a character but I'm coming to doubt it's the source of our power.)
The short version of the post is that or potential is strange, our soul is resistant to some forms of mind control, we have impossible knowledge, and antimagic hits us strangely hard, so it's possible some active magic is part of our innate being, and also that one possible explanation of our soul oddities could be that we're not all here. Be that as one part of a conglomerate witch, or as an angel, one way or another Sabrina is a terminal for something greater.
But there's additional points to consider:
Our potential is strange and unreadable and soul gem capacity is... actually not that exceptional. We've got more capacity than Homura or Sayaka, and we edge out Oriko, but are significantly lower than either Mami or Nadia. If our power came from our own self, even as a conglomerate soul --- especially as a conglomerate soul really --- I would expect that stat to be significantly higher. Having a link *feeding us* power on the other hand would account for the discrepancy. It's not exclusively a point towards being an angel, but does add one more point towards the whole "terminal for something greater" idea in general.
(I'll admit, I am wondering if this would also impact Sayaka: Her soul gem capacity is the same as Homura's, which would imply her potential is still on the lower side, but her power is quite strong, and lacks many of the downsides that Nadia noted could come with power copying, though we don't know how common those downsides are.)
Dedolere, were she to come into existence, is notable in that she would rapidly "snowball hilariously" to being a universe-scale threat. I'd previously considered that our witch might just devour the grief of other witches, but it occurs to me that sucking up the grief of the Law of Cycles/Alt!Madokami like a sponge through the link would also count, and be pretty hilariously unexpected to all involved.
This would also fit with us being unable to fight Feathers directly: If the being we're drawing power from is also Feathers, or becomes Feathers, it would explain that scenario even if Dedolere!Feathers is wrong, because we can't fight the source of our power.
Also, having a portion of Madokami's power invested in us just... kinda fits with seeing her at the beginning (and, according to the wish to live omake, end) of our journey.
So uh, in conclusion...
Sayaka: No Sabrina, you are the angels
And then Sabrina was the angels.
The short version of the post is that or potential is strange, our soul is resistant to some forms of mind control, we have impossible knowledge, and antimagic hits us strangely hard, so it's possible some active magic is part of our innate being, and also that one possible explanation of our soul oddities could be that we're not all here. Be that as one part of a conglomerate witch, or as an angel, one way or another Sabrina is a terminal for something greater.
But there's additional points to consider:
Our potential is strange and unreadable and soul gem capacity is... actually not that exceptional. We've got more capacity than Homura or Sayaka, and we edge out Oriko, but are significantly lower than either Mami or Nadia. If our power came from our own self, even as a conglomerate soul --- especially as a conglomerate soul really --- I would expect that stat to be significantly higher. Having a link *feeding us* power on the other hand would account for the discrepancy. It's not exclusively a point towards being an angel, but does add one more point towards the whole "terminal for something greater" idea in general.
(I'll admit, I am wondering if this would also impact Sayaka: Her soul gem capacity is the same as Homura's, which would imply her potential is still on the lower side, but her power is quite strong, and lacks many of the downsides that Nadia noted could come with power copying, though we don't know how common those downsides are.)
Dedolere, were she to come into existence, is notable in that she would rapidly "snowball hilariously" to being a universe-scale threat. I'd previously considered that our witch might just devour the grief of other witches, but it occurs to me that sucking up the grief of the Law of Cycles/Alt!Madokami like a sponge through the link would also count, and be pretty hilariously unexpected to all involved.
This would also fit with us being unable to fight Feathers directly: If the being we're drawing power from is also Feathers, or becomes Feathers, it would explain that scenario even if Dedolere!Feathers is wrong, because we can't fight the source of our power.
Also, having a portion of Madokami's power invested in us just... kinda fits with seeing her at the beginning (and, according to the wish to live omake, end) of our journey.
So uh, in conclusion...
Sayaka: No Sabrina, you are the angels
And then Sabrina was the angels.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Was the word 'snowball' used, or is this a reference to 'the hilorious bootstrap process involved'?
Because that could be a misleading reference to Homura's timeloops, the same bootstrap process that had Madokami come to be.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
The strength of the power can't really be treated as purely indicative of potential, since other factors come into play as well.
After all, it's not exactly like Homura's power is weak...
Last edited:
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Vague, not really explained factors.
The real reason why I'd want Sabrina to be, in some way, Walpurgisnacht, would be because:
Translated from shitpost, Homu's a real special case to analyze. I wonder if Walpurgisnacht likes Homura (as someone would like a character/pawn), enjoys her suffering in particular.
Then this was turned around, fixed, and humanized Walpurgisnacht would come to actually care about Homura in a healthy way. And call her mom, but let's put that aside.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Walpurgisnacht almost certainly has a special, personal interest in Homura. After all, the entire narrative is about Homura, Madoka, and their doomed fight against Walpurgis.
My theory on how Homura managed to pull a 7/5 power with her low potential is that Walpurgis leaned on the scales in Homura's favor... yet still left her with a power utterly unable to ever beat Walpurgisnacht by herself.
My theory on how Homura managed to pull a 7/5 power with her low potential is that Walpurgis leaned on the scales in Homura's favor... yet still left her with a power utterly unable to ever beat Walpurgisnacht by herself.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
The latter. Memory of specific phrasing was gone at the moment but the idea applies just as well there.
Because you have to admit: "grief-drain Madokami to power up to godhood" is kinda hilarious bootstrapping... And also mirrors Homucifer's ascension, if you interpret "steal a fragment of God for unlimited power! (and a high school AU)" being part of the whole shebang.
On the other hand, while her power is incredibly strong, Homura's wish does have significant downsides, what with fighting forever, losing connection with those she cares about, and empowering the very fate she seeks to avert. On the other hand, unless it turns out the power gems are secretly something Sayaka's not ready to deal with, (Like, on the level of learning they're actually children, not just being familiar equivalents or something) we've seen no particular downsides to Sayaka's magic or wish at all.
--------------------
In other news I just got a reminder ping to have a Touhou cosplay with Kyouko and I have no idea why.
But we are talking about owed favors right now.
[Q] Ask Kyouko to join you in a cosplay contest to win Taniguchi Emi's favor.
Last edited:
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
That's the thing. If Homu can bring people over timelines, she could form a team... and beat the shit out of Walp.
However, it's is delightfully devilish of Walp to give Homura that power, knowing she won't do that.
Homura's super OP power then is useless for its intended purpose, indeed.
Even beyond that, Homu supposedly got an OP as hell power, which one would think would mean would make her OP... but what's this about Homu wishing above her Potential? What does it mean? Does it mean her power will go away after Walpurignsacht? Does it mean Karma's gonna get her, or... yes?
Homura's the one meguca who doesn't actually get her Wish granted. Not to her satisfaction. That's why she can pull the shit she can in Rebellion.
It's hilariously sad. Homura Wished for something she couldn't have, and she didn't get it.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
In other news I just got a reminder ping to have a Touhou cosplay with Kyouko and I have no idea why.
But we are talking about owed favors right now.
[Q] Ask Kyouko to join you in a cosplay contest to win Taniguchi Emi's favor.
...I'd vote for it.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Walpy was dead when Homura made her contract.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
She could have set it up ahead of time, I guess? Actually, is it ever explicitly stated that Timeline 0 Walpurgis got killed instead of just moving on?
Still, yeah, that rather does reduce the odds of my theory.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Magic also has no ontological inertia, soooo that's a problem.
and yea, Walpy died.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
I think Redshirt was going with the idea of "Walpy is a bullshit meta-fictional fucker" rather than anything about witches in general, but yes agreed.
Nova Prospekt pt. 10
"What do I want?" you ask. "Well that's simple. I-"
Um.
Hm.
What do you want?
Yuma giggles quietly at your reaction, and that... that gives you an idea. You take a heartbeat to weight this particular tack in the face of Kyouko's Kyoukoness before deciding to go for it.
"I... well, you know what? What do you want from Yuma?" you say, voice strengthening as you speak. You lean back against the antenna spar, lounging as comfortably as you can on bare metal. "Or what does Yuma want from you?"
As blunt as your warhammer. Might as well play to your strengths.
"The fuck do I-" Kyouko's eyes narrow as her brain catches up with her mouth, and her jaw clicks shut, pulling Yuma closer to her with an arm. "That's not the same thing. I damn well know how to handle myself. Better'n you do."
"Is it not?" you say, gesturing wide. "It's empathy, Kyouko. I want to help. That's what I want. I woke up with nothing except these weird... pseudo-memories in my head of the lives of a bunch of girls I've never met before, and I know just how badly the world screwed them over." You flip your hand over, palm open, and then close it into a fist. "Screwed you over."
You debate, with yourself, bringing up Mami. You do want them to have their reunion. Mami was so happy to reconnect with Michiru. And having one of her dearest friends back would only help. But then, for all that Kyouko isn't quite as prickly as she used to be...
You can damn well imagine how their meeting would go, here and now, and that would crush Mami. That's not going to happen. Not like this. Not until you figure out how to make things work for them.
Kyouko's scowl deepens. "So fucking what? I don't need to be a charity case for your warm fuzzies."
"It's not that, Kyouko," you say with a sharp shake of your head. "Like I said, it's empathy. It's basic human nature. I care about people I know. I care about people's happiness and wellbeing and stuff and what do you know? I know the both of you. You and Yuma both."
You continue before Kyouko can say anything.
"If anything, I'm being selfish, you know," you say, folding your arms. "I want to help everyone, and fix everything, but I care about the two of you more than most other magical girls. Because I'm more affected by what happens to my friends and how they act towards me. So I'm here, helping you. You asked me what I want, Kyouko? That. I want to help. Let me. Please."
"Why me?" Kyouko asks quietly. Yuma shifts, quiet and hunched in on herself. Scared. "Why us? The squirt needs someone t' look out for her. I don't."
You shrug, looking out at the blurred world beyond the walls of the privacy field.
"Because I care," you say.
"No, I mean... why? How?" Kyouko says.
"Oh," you say, and shrug again. "Honestly, that's a damn good question. I'd really like to know myself."
Kyouko stares at you.
You look right back at her, meeting dusky crimson eyes with your own sky blue.
"You're crazy," she says finally. "You know that, right?"
"Eh," you say. "I prefer quirky."
She sighs, digging a handful of sweets out of her pocket. She shares one with Yuma, and offers her hand to you.
"Thanks," you say, picking a yellow coloured one out of the mix. Lemon flavoured, it turns out.
The rest of the sweets go back into Kyouko's pocket as she pulls one open with her teeth, popping it into her mouth. She scowls at you, before flopping down fully on the antenna spar, head pillowed on her arms and one leg folded up. Yuma hugs her up-raised knee, sucking on her own sweet with a faintly worried air.
Yuma's eyes go to you, huge and wordlessly pleading.
"So, uh-" You're cut off by Kyouko.
"Shut up, 'm thinking," she grunts.
You raise an eyebrow, and lean back, shrugging once more. You can let her think, considering the bombs you've just dropped on her. Which... has you thinking about her father.
Her father, who snapped upon finding out that Kyouko had made a deal with the Devil. His own daughter. His flock, his work, his triumph, tainted by the Devil. Everything had come crashing down around his ears, and he'd done the only thing he felt like he could.
But then... there's one little niggling issue that doesn't add up: Kyuubey. It didn't cover things up. It didn't remove Father Sakura's memories, when it did remove Sayaka's father's. And that turned out rather well for it on both cases, didn't it?
Damn. There is, perhaps, a certain grey area between truthful, honest, and consistent. And assuming anything of the literally alien thing...
You don't let any of that show on your face, tilting your head back up to look at the sky. It's not like you needed more reasons to hate the little white rat, but that's a thought to allow to percolate for a bit before telling Kyouko.
"So what d'you know 'bout me? And Yuma?" Kyouko drawls at last, pulling you from those thoughts. "And what now?"
[] Write-in response to Kyouko(word count limit: 150 words)
Hey, two updates a week! Short ones, admittedly.
Um.
Hm.
What do you want?
Yuma giggles quietly at your reaction, and that... that gives you an idea. You take a heartbeat to weight this particular tack in the face of Kyouko's Kyoukoness before deciding to go for it.
"I... well, you know what? What do you want from Yuma?" you say, voice strengthening as you speak. You lean back against the antenna spar, lounging as comfortably as you can on bare metal. "Or what does Yuma want from you?"
As blunt as your warhammer. Might as well play to your strengths.
"The fuck do I-" Kyouko's eyes narrow as her brain catches up with her mouth, and her jaw clicks shut, pulling Yuma closer to her with an arm. "That's not the same thing. I damn well know how to handle myself. Better'n you do."
"Is it not?" you say, gesturing wide. "It's empathy, Kyouko. I want to help. That's what I want. I woke up with nothing except these weird... pseudo-memories in my head of the lives of a bunch of girls I've never met before, and I know just how badly the world screwed them over." You flip your hand over, palm open, and then close it into a fist. "Screwed you over."
You debate, with yourself, bringing up Mami. You do want them to have their reunion. Mami was so happy to reconnect with Michiru. And having one of her dearest friends back would only help. But then, for all that Kyouko isn't quite as prickly as she used to be...
You can damn well imagine how their meeting would go, here and now, and that would crush Mami. That's not going to happen. Not like this. Not until you figure out how to make things work for them.
Kyouko's scowl deepens. "So fucking what? I don't need to be a charity case for your warm fuzzies."
"It's not that, Kyouko," you say with a sharp shake of your head. "Like I said, it's empathy. It's basic human nature. I care about people I know. I care about people's happiness and wellbeing and stuff and what do you know? I know the both of you. You and Yuma both."
You continue before Kyouko can say anything.
"If anything, I'm being selfish, you know," you say, folding your arms. "I want to help everyone, and fix everything, but I care about the two of you more than most other magical girls. Because I'm more affected by what happens to my friends and how they act towards me. So I'm here, helping you. You asked me what I want, Kyouko? That. I want to help. Let me. Please."
"Why me?" Kyouko asks quietly. Yuma shifts, quiet and hunched in on herself. Scared. "Why us? The squirt needs someone t' look out for her. I don't."
You shrug, looking out at the blurred world beyond the walls of the privacy field.
"Because I care," you say.
"No, I mean... why? How?" Kyouko says.
"Oh," you say, and shrug again. "Honestly, that's a damn good question. I'd really like to know myself."
Kyouko stares at you.
You look right back at her, meeting dusky crimson eyes with your own sky blue.
"You're crazy," she says finally. "You know that, right?"
"Eh," you say. "I prefer quirky."
She sighs, digging a handful of sweets out of her pocket. She shares one with Yuma, and offers her hand to you.
"Thanks," you say, picking a yellow coloured one out of the mix. Lemon flavoured, it turns out.
The rest of the sweets go back into Kyouko's pocket as she pulls one open with her teeth, popping it into her mouth. She scowls at you, before flopping down fully on the antenna spar, head pillowed on her arms and one leg folded up. Yuma hugs her up-raised knee, sucking on her own sweet with a faintly worried air.
Yuma's eyes go to you, huge and wordlessly pleading.
"So, uh-" You're cut off by Kyouko.
"Shut up, 'm thinking," she grunts.
You raise an eyebrow, and lean back, shrugging once more. You can let her think, considering the bombs you've just dropped on her. Which... has you thinking about her father.
Her father, who snapped upon finding out that Kyouko had made a deal with the Devil. His own daughter. His flock, his work, his triumph, tainted by the Devil. Everything had come crashing down around his ears, and he'd done the only thing he felt like he could.
But then... there's one little niggling issue that doesn't add up: Kyuubey. It didn't cover things up. It didn't remove Father Sakura's memories, when it did remove Sayaka's father's. And that turned out rather well for it on both cases, didn't it?
Damn. There is, perhaps, a certain grey area between truthful, honest, and consistent. And assuming anything of the literally alien thing...
You don't let any of that show on your face, tilting your head back up to look at the sky. It's not like you needed more reasons to hate the little white rat, but that's a thought to allow to percolate for a bit before telling Kyouko.
"So what d'you know 'bout me? And Yuma?" Kyouko drawls at last, pulling you from those thoughts. "And what now?"
[] Write-in response to Kyouko(word count limit: 150 words)
=====
Hey, two updates a week! Short ones, admittedly.
Last edited:
- Location
- UK
Hmm, have we told people our 'memories' are effectively of the future? And have we explained to Kyouko the infohazards?
Could we just tell Kyouko the rough events of what happens? Without the Witchbombing stuff obviously.
Mami dies in front of Madoka and Sayaka, Sayaka contracts, Sayaka is a bad magical girl and fights Kyouko, some stuff (infohazards) comes out, Sayaka and Kyouko gain respect/friendship sort of, Kyouko reveals her story to Sayaka, Sayaka dies due to infohazards, Kyouko sacrifices herself killing a Witch in 'what may as well be considered getting vengeance for Sayaka, but the actual situation is a bit more complex and the exact knowledge dangerous'. Then some stuff happens with Homura, Madoka and Walpurgisnacht but which is irrelevant to this conversation, and has personal info besides.
Make sure that Kyouko understands this is the rough situation, and that we have a more detailed understanding of what exactly happened, but I think maybe she will understand our perspective more. And I don't see any harm in telling Kyouko this stuff so long as she understands we are omitting infohazards and why, and I think she would appreciate our bluntness.
Not sure about Yuma, I don't know much about the material beyond the original series and Rebellion.
Could we just tell Kyouko the rough events of what happens? Without the Witchbombing stuff obviously.
Mami dies in front of Madoka and Sayaka, Sayaka contracts, Sayaka is a bad magical girl and fights Kyouko, some stuff (infohazards) comes out, Sayaka and Kyouko gain respect/friendship sort of, Kyouko reveals her story to Sayaka, Sayaka dies due to infohazards, Kyouko sacrifices herself killing a Witch in 'what may as well be considered getting vengeance for Sayaka, but the actual situation is a bit more complex and the exact knowledge dangerous'. Then some stuff happens with Homura, Madoka and Walpurgisnacht but which is irrelevant to this conversation, and has personal info besides.
Make sure that Kyouko understands this is the rough situation, and that we have a more detailed understanding of what exactly happened, but I think maybe she will understand our perspective more. And I don't see any harm in telling Kyouko this stuff so long as she understands we are omitting infohazards and why, and I think she would appreciate our bluntness.
Not sure about Yuma, I don't know much about the material beyond the original series and Rebellion.
- Location
- The infinite well of fanfics
FEAR THE WOULD! Not the world, the would.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
[] Tell Kyouko and Yuma about our foreknowledge as well as our prior knowledge.
EDIT: -[] Jokingly: Suggest we cosplay for the favor of hardcore meguca roleplayers.
EDIT: -[] Jokingly: Suggest we cosplay for the favor of hardcore meguca roleplayers.
Last edited:
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Didn't need to ask a favour back?! Kyouko's being all non tsundere and listening?
[Q] Make sure this is really Kyouko.
-[Q] Ask someone only Kyouko would know.
--[Q] WHAT'S THE AVERAGE AMOUNT OF CALORIES IN A BOX OF POCKY?!
--[Q] WHERE DOES THE NAME 'POCKY' COME FROM?!
--[Q] HOW WAS THE GLICO MORINAGA CASE SOLVED?!
---[Q] Trick question, as it wasn't!
I mean, it saves us some potential trouble, so hopefully this luck will hold?
Also, huh:
I guess this must be the real Kyouko.
[Q] Make sure this is really Kyouko.
-[Q] Ask someone only Kyouko would know.
--[Q] WHAT'S THE AVERAGE AMOUNT OF CALORIES IN A BOX OF POCKY?!
--[Q] WHERE DOES THE NAME 'POCKY' COME FROM?!
--[Q] HOW WAS THE GLICO MORINAGA CASE SOLVED?!
---[Q] Trick question, as it wasn't!
I mean, it saves us some potential trouble, so hopefully this luck will hold?
Also, huh:
Wikipedia said:
Food offering get!
I guess this must be the real Kyouko.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
[X] Relate your metaknowledge about them. Avoid directly bringing up painful memories, but make it clear that you know about them.
[X] Explain how your knowledge covered events-that-could-have-been if you didn't exist.
-[X] This is a part of why you're having Kyouko train Sayaka - they could have been enemies or friends, and you'd really rather not have Kyouko as an enemy. Too skilled and mean by half.
[X] Which leads to what now: your continuing goal is to make sure your friends are safer, stronger, and happier, come what may.
[X] Explain how your knowledge covered events-that-could-have-been if you didn't exist.
-[X] This is a part of why you're having Kyouko train Sayaka - they could have been enemies or friends, and you'd really rather not have Kyouko as an enemy. Too skilled and mean by half.
[X] Which leads to what now: your continuing goal is to make sure your friends are safer, stronger, and happier, come what may.
- Location
- Elsewhere
it's worth pointing out that the original wish was because he wasn't very 'popular' as a minister for his unorthodox views.
Maybe he was an underappreciated, brilliant philosopher.
Maybe he was a complete loon trying to start a suicide cult but had poor recruitment skills.
Either way, I can only think of 3 ways to fix it via wish:
1) Find people in the world who agree with him, then forcefully relocate them to his parish
2) Mind control him so his attitudes are more mainstream
3) Mind control his flock
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
So, once more rises the question:
Do we tell Kyouko about Yuma's grandparents?
Do we not tell Kyouko, but talk with Yuma about it?
Do we not bring it up?
Yuma has grandparents that will take her in if she dares be such a bad girl as to go and ask for help instead of being a good girl and taking everything without complaints. That's basically what Yuma feels.
Yuma's mother used her head as an ashtray when she cried.
Add the Kyoukomplication: We don't want to separate Yuma and Kyouko, and even if Yuma's grandparents were somehow OK with taking in a random Koko, it wouldn't be easy for Kyouko to start living with a family again...
Problems, questions, considerations.
It would be so much comfortable to not bring any of this up, wouldn't it?
Do we tell Kyouko about Yuma's grandparents?
Do we not tell Kyouko, but talk with Yuma about it?
Do we not bring it up?
Yuma has grandparents that will take her in if she dares be such a bad girl as to go and ask for help instead of being a good girl and taking everything without complaints. That's basically what Yuma feels.
Yuma's mother used her head as an ashtray when she cried.
Add the Kyoukomplication: We don't want to separate Yuma and Kyouko, and even if Yuma's grandparents were somehow OK with taking in a random Koko, it wouldn't be easy for Kyouko to start living with a family again...
Problems, questions, considerations.
It would be so much comfortable to not bring any of this up, wouldn't it?