First is that we already know how to disconnect parts of our own body.

Second is that the Pleiades in PMKM all know a 'spell' (Tocco del Mare / Touch of Evil) that's basically an instant, contact spell that disconnects a Magical Girl from their body.

Which sounds like what we did to our body, but developed and applied to someone else as a whole.

Imagine if we could apply this through our Grief... Fog.
Who needs a touch of evil when we have the Zone of Evil
 
Who needs a touch of evil when we have the Zone of Evil
And since the Pleiades will totally insist that we need to yell the attack's name when we do it, lots of meguca will get to know us as someone who yells "ZONE OF EVIL" and then everyone we don't like around us falls dead asleep.

So we sound evil, we look evil with the wings, we feel evil due to, again, the wings...

Hostile meguca: "You look evil, you feel evil, you sound evil, therefore..."

Sabrina: "Oh noes! Mami! Am I evil?"

Mami: *Kisses Sabrina*

Sabrina: *(Metaphorically) Melts*

Mami: "No."

Hostile meguca: "Awww..."
 
Nova Prospekt pt. 5
Of course, it's only polite to check in on them before dropping by. You settle into a lazy holding pattern high above Mitakihara Middle School, wheeling in lazy circles with the birds riding the same thermals. Even if some of them are probably under the sway of Sayaka's magic, they all seem extraordinarily unconcerned with your presence.

You give them little waves when you think they're looking at you, anyway. No harm being on good terms with feathered beings in general, you reason.

... but that's besides the point.

"Oriko? Kirika?" you reach out across the distance with your mind.

"Good morning, Sabrina!" Kirika chirps.

"Oh good, you're awake," you say. "I don't suppose you and Oriko are open to having a visit around now? I can wait if it's more convenient."

"Hmm... sec!" Kirika says, and continues a moment later. "Sure, come on over!"

"Alright, see you soon," you say, and break the holding pattern. You tilt your wings in salute to your fellow winged compatriots before zipping off towards the Mikuni mansion, which is in turn a name you're sticking to because it's delightfully alliterative. In English, anyway.

When you coast in for a landing in the Kure's backyard a few minutes later, you find Kirika waiting at the door.

"Heyo!" she calls, nudging the door open. "Want some breakfast?"

"Ah, I've eaten, but don't let me interrupt you if you're having yours," you say, beaming. "Is Oriko alright?"

"Oriko's in the shower, and I'm making breakfast!" Kirika says, bouncing on her toes. "So... yeah!"

"Whatcha cooking?" you ask as you follow her into the mansion.

"Nothing complicated, just waffles and stuff," Kirika says. "Uh... just so you know, Oriko might be in the shower for a while. She takes long showers."

You grin at her. "No prob. I kind of wanted to talk to you, anyway... Oriko too, but some of it's more relevant to you."

"Eh? What's up?" Kirika snags an apron from the back of the kitchen door as you follow her in. She fidgets with said apron for a few moments, checking the pockets of her shorts before apparently settling everything to her satisfaction, and grabs a bowl of batter off the counter which she starts stirring.

"So... well, honestly, I've realised, really realised, what Mami means to me," you say with a sheepish grin. "I... well, I'd probably have realised it eventually, but I think what you told me back then helped, a lot."

"Did you now?" Kirika asks, her tone curiously neutral.

"Yeah," you say, and you can't help the soft smile that rises to your face as you think of her.

Kirika sets the mixing bowl back down on the counter with a sharp click. She marches over to stand in front of you, every step firm and resolute on kitchen tile. She has to tilt her head back to look you in the eye, citrine eyes framed by slightly damp hair. She stares at you for a second... and then she grins, brilliant and sharp.

"Fucking finally," she says. "Congratulations."

That startles a laugh out of you.

"Yeah, well... it wasn't that simple," you say, rubbing your nose. "I mean, I really do have concerns about it."

"Bullshit," Kirika says cheerfully, spinning and back to the counter. She starts ladling batter into the fancy waffle iron, intent on the task.

You laugh.

"I suppose," you say. "She's important to me, and... I don't know what I'd do if something happened to her. I mean, I've... I suppose I've always known I was here to fix things, you know? That's me. It's what I do."

You lean against the wall, fidgeting with that perpetually flyaway stand of hair by your ear. "But no. Not any more, or not just that, as selfish as it might be. I need her to be with me. I need to make her happy."

"Sounds 'bout right to me," Kirika says, and tilts you a grin.

"Yeah, well," you say. "I mean, I still have secrets I... can't tell her. It's... just not fair to her."

"Mmmhm," Kirika says, frowning at you. "But you told her, didn't you?"

"I told her that I have secrets, and I asked if she wanted to hear them, yeah," you admit. "I made it clear it would be painful, but I'd tell her if she wanted to."

"Mmmmhm," Kirika says, cracking open the waffle iron and scooping it out onto a plate. "Sounds to me like you did the right thing."

"Yeah, but it's not... fair," you say.

"You know what's 'not fair'?" Kirika says, ladling on more batter. "You beating yourself up for loving your oujo. Yeah, OK, you reckon it's an imbalanced situation. You tell me you won't instantly break down if she said a word against you. If she asked to know, would you tell her?"

"Well..." you fiddle with that lock of hair.

"'s what I thought," Kirika says, humming thoughtfully. "See the thing is... you worry it's uneven, and I guess you're right, it sorta is. In her favour, because you're kind of a wimp. Wimp."

"Like you're any better," you say, faintly offended. She's right, admittedly.

"Yup!" Kirika says, and holds her fist out to you. "Fools for love, both of us."

You sigh, and bump your knuckles against hers. "Fools in love."

"There you go," Kirika says with a lazy grin. "Yeah. You've got power. So does she, because you think about it. Like, relationships go bad 'cuz one side cares more than the other. That's a real problem, that's unfair. You and your oujo? Naaah."

You let out a sigh, reassured despite yourself.

"I... well, thanks, Kirika," you say, and smile at her. "Speaking of, how's Oriko been?"

"Couldn't be better," Kirika says with a satisfied grin. "Been teaching her to shitpost."

You raise a finger and open your mouth, but-

What do you even say to that?

"She's taking to it well," Kirika adds.

"That-" you clear your throat, and lower your finger to lock your arms behind your back instead. "That's probably a warcrime of some kind, but OK."

"I know!" Kirika says cheerfully, flipping another waffle onto the stack. "It's wonderful. She's wonderful."

"Mami's wonderful, too," you say with a happy sigh.

Kirika grins at you, that little fang of hers poking out as she refills the waffle iron. "Seriously. Grats on figuring it out."

"Thanks," you say, and return her grin. "You had a much easier time of it, huh?"

"Yeah, that's because I don't overthink things," Kirika says. "I'm smarter like that."

You laugh brightly. "Yeah, yeah, rub it in why don't you."

"I think not," Kirika says in a lofty, superior tone. "For naturally, I shall be the better person."

You spend nearly half an hour bantering cheerfully with Kirika. She churns out stacks of waffles, shoving them into the oven to stay warm, and you briefly debate pointing out that you doubt they could possibly eat that many, but... who are you to get in the way of her cooking for her Oriko?

And speaking of Oriko, she finally emerges from upstairs, descending the stairs one sedate step at a time.

"Good morning, Sabrina," she says, giving you a nod as she crosses the kitchen and kisses Kirika on the cheek. Kirika beams, and cuddles up against Oriko.

"I'll be outside!" you say, pushing yourself off the wall.

"No, no, no need," Oriko says. She brushes still-wet hair back from her eyes, giving you an amused smile. "How are you, Sabrina? And what brings you here today?"

"I'm good," you say, and grin at her. "And I'm here because... well, I guess I wanted to see my friends."

Oriko blinks, and then again.

You keep the grin on your face, raising your eyebrows at her.

And finally, Oriko sighs, slumping against Kirika.

"You shouldn't consider us- Kirika!" Oriko trails off into a whine and flinches away from Kirika, who's currently menacing her with something.

You blink. You'd nearly missed the motion - Kirika's hand all but blurred as she snatched... a squirt bottle from her pocket.

"I... thank you, Sabrina," Oriko says, giving you a smile that's half rueful and half annoyed.

"That's more like it," Kirika says, looping an arm around Oriko's waist.

"We could stil- no, alright, I won't-" Oriko wards off Kirika's incoming spritz. "I'm sorry!"

"... this is my fault, and I apologise," you say, palming your face. "I am so sorry."

"Yes, yes it is!" Oriko says, trying to grab the spray bottle away from Kirika. She's not terribly successful.

"... I'll be outside?" you say, and this time, you make good on your escape, smiling to yourself. You're glad for Oriko and Kirika, and... yes. You consider them friends. Enemies, once, but now friends and allies.

Oriko and Kirika emerge from the kitchen a while later, Kirika bearing a tray laden with stacks of waffles and toppings and, of course, a pot of tea.

"Please, join us," Oriko says, waving you over. You smile, and take a seat at the dining table, grabbing a waffle. You've already eaten, but it's only polite.

"Unwis..." Oriko trails off with a narrow-eyed glare at Kirika, who simply gives her an angelically innocent look. "Unexpected declarations of friendship aside, what brings you here today, Sabrina?"

"Well, in all seriousness? That is a real reason I wanted to come over," you say, and smile. "Not the only one, of course. I made up my mind... well, I'm not entirely sure when, but I thought you should know."

"We're your friends too!" Kirika chirps happily, waving a fork laden with waffle at you. "Right, Oriko?"

"I..." She closes her eyes and exhales, before opening them meeting your gaze. "Yes. I... we're your friends, Sabrina. You've been kinder to us than I could have ever expected, and I'm more than grateful for that alone. I... do enjoy talking to you, frustrating though I find it."

"Right back atcha. Including the frustrating bit," you say, sticking your tongue out at Oriko, who just sighs. She's smiling despite herself.

You tip a little syrup onto your waffle, slicing it delicately with the knife.

"I appreciate it," Oriko says, exhaling quietly. "Still, what were the other reasons?"

"Well, I already told Kirika, but... well, I've realised what Mami really means to me," you say. "Just how important she's become to me - and I wanted to thank Kirika, because she definitely helped."

"Ah," Oriko says with a faint smile. "I must say, I think everyone else realised before you did. I certainly did, I'm certain even Akemi did."

You snort, smiling sheepishly. "Yeah, well, too close to the problem and all that. Plus, I had entirely valid doubts- agh!"

"Bad Sabrina," Kirika snaps, lowering the squirt bottle.

You pout at Kirika.

"You did accept responsibility, Sabrina," Oriko says placidly, her cutlery rattling pointedly against her plate.

"Traitor," you tell Kirika. "But yeah. That's one thing. Another... well, I've got more serious matters that can wait until after breakfast?"

"Of course," Oriko says, inclining her head. "I wouldn't dream of spoiling the excellent breakfast Kirika has prepared with serious matters."

Kirika beams, and leans over to kiss Oriko on the cheek. "You think it's excellent?"

"It is, dear," Oriko says with a warm smile.

"And hey, Oriko's biased, but take it from me, these are pretty good!" you say. You wink. "Not as good as Mami's, of course."

"But you are in turn biased," Oriko says, sniffing. "I am of the opinion that Kirika's cooking is better."

"You haven't even tried Mami's cooking, your opinion is invalid," you say.

"Ah, but I might have experienced a vision of the future where I did, at which point I would likely have had a variation of this conversation," Oriko says. "Therefore, by foreseeing myself having that conversation I would be able to glean my own opinion."

"... But you didn't," you say, squinting suspiciously at Oriko. "And your opinion would be biased, anyway."

Oriko sniffs disdainfully, popping another bite of waffle into her mouth.

You'll take that victory!

The rest of breakfast passes with easy chatter. You finish your waffle, just the one, and summon a blob of Grief to your hand, excusing yourself with the fact that you'll need it in a bit as you enchant it. Kirika tries to drop more on your plate, but you decline - you've already had breakfast. You might be a puella magi and thus immune to getting fat if you don't want to, but there's no reason to be greedy. Plus, you're meeting Kyouko at some point today, and that probably means food.

Kirika clears the dishes away as you finish, Oriko insisting that you're a guest and don't get to help.

"So what was that last matter, Sabrina?" Oriko asks, folding her hands on the table.

"Well, two things," you say, smiling. "The first... huh, three things, actually, but anyway. The first, how's the preparation for moving going?"

"Not terribly well," Oriko says with a shrug. "Insofar as we haven't started yet. We... don't have a particular timeline yet, so we don't know what or when to pack."

"... ah. That's... well, that's fair," you say, frowning. "Right. I'll look at that."

"That would be appreciated," Oriko says with a faint smile. "Just to clarify... are we currently allowed to roam outside?"

"Ah, well..." you shift uncomfortably. "The GPS trackers are arriving today. Supposed to, anyway."

"When we receive those, then," Oriko says, with a nod. She pauses for a moment before adding, "Just to be clear, Sabrina, I don't hold it against you. I understand you're doing the best you can, with far more leniency than I could have possibly hoped to experience."

"I... well," you say, grimacing. "I'm trying the best I can."

"Hallloooo," Kirika says, bouncing out of the kitchen and flopping down across Oriko's lap. "Why the long faces?"

"It's nothing, dear," Oriko says, wrapping her arms around Kirika's waist to steady her. "Just talking about something. What were the other matters?"

"Uh- well, Kirika, I was thinking of asking for anti-magic manacles from you?" you say, jumping on the change of subject offered. "They'd have been useful last night."

"... do you have manacles I could use?" Kirika says. "I dunno what you think of us, but we don't."

You groan, covering your face with both hands. "That is not remotely what I meant," you say.

Oriko chuckles quietly. "Perhaps a chain of some kind? I believe there should still be some in the gardening stores."

"... yeah," you say, shaking your head. "Yeah, that'd be nice."

"I'll go check!" Kirika volunteers, hopping off Oriko's lap.

"Uh- when you get back, we might be in a privacy enchantment? Feel free to step in," you call after her as she wanders out of the room.

"Gotcha!" Kirika chirps, waving.

Oriko turns a curious look on you.

"The third matter," you say, calling the enchanted Grief to your hand. "Do you mind?"

"By all means," Oriko says.

You take a moment to form the privacy construct, setting it down on the table as the field blooms around you, hazing the world beyond the bounds of the sphere.

"So... I wanted to ask you about revealing the link of Madoka's potential and the loops to Homura. I... no, no-" You hold up your hands to forestall Oriko's protests. "I'm not thinking about doing it anytime soon, but I need to know, because I'm sure the Incubator will try to use it as a weapon sometime. That's what it did... before."

"Ah," Oriko says, frowning. "I... I have something to raise, too, after we are done, but for now, what do you wish to know?"

"How does she learn about it?" you ask. "That's the most important. Where? How does she react, in as much detail as you recall? I know that losing your magic meant that a lot of the visions were lost too, but you remember some of it, right?"

Oriko nods, frowning in thought for a moment - though she doesn't get to answer before Kirika bounces back in, waving a metal chain with knuckle-sized links purloined from somewhere.

"Hi!" Kirika says happily, flopping down across Oriko's lap and nestling close.

"Hello," Oriko says, and leans forward to claim a kiss.

"Heyo," you say, looking away to give them their privacy.

Oriko clears her throat, and you look back to find Kirika curled happily on her lap. The black-haired girl brandishes the chain at you.

"Usual immunities? Us and your friends? What about the shrimp?" Kirika asks.

"The who... you mean Miss Tsuruya?" you ask, stifling a giggle. "From Fukushima?"

"Yeah her," Kirika says. "The girl you had me make a pair for?"

"Ah..." you frown thoughtfully. "Eh, go for it, I guess."

You trust Yuki to stick to her word. She seems the type, and she certainly seems to want to hitch her star to yours. If you come into conflict with her, something has gone terribly wrong somewhere.

"Got it!" Kirika says, tongue sticking out as she starts enchanting the metal chain.

Oriko smiles at her before turning sea-green eyes to you, gravely thoughtful.

"As I was about to say, Sabrina - the 'how' is simple," Oriko says. "She despairs in truth, because it means that for every gain she's made, the obstacles simply become more insurmountable. Walpurgisnacht alone is no longer her only foe to contend with, let alone the Incubator's increased machinations."

"Even with me here? Even with the changes I've made?" you say.

"If you are present, then certainly you can drag her back from the edge of oblivion," Oriko says, and sighs. "Tomoe Mami could not. Miki Sayaka could not... Kaname Madoka would make it worse if present. She would have lost everything."

"Yeah, I get that," you say with a grimace. "Which makes the when and how even more important?"

"The Incubator," Oriko says, scowling. "You yourself. I gather you want to do it under controlled circumstances, which I think unwise even then. Kaname Madoka, too, has the potential for it."

"Madoka," you say, sitting back. "Huh. Do you have any more detail, Oriko?"

She nods jerkily, frown deepening into worried furrows that Kirika reaches up to smooth away. Oriko sighs, slumping and pressing a kiss to Kirika's forehead.

"In the days before Walpurgisnacht," Oriko says finally. "As you assemble the magical girls to fight. That's when the Incubator strikes, to tear it all down. Kaname Madoka... she's a lot smarter than she looks. I suspect she figures it out soon after she finds about the loops."

"That fits," you say, scowling. "Striking for the greatest possible effect."

Oriko nods, sighing.

"I apologise," she says. "I... don't remember clearly."

"Yeah, I know," you say. "I get that. I... have a thought, Oriko, if you don't mind hearing it?"

"Yes?" Oriko asks.

"We appear to have enchantments related to our magic," you say. "Kirika, for example, has antimagic enchantments."

"Which is almost done, by the way!" Kirika says happily. "Getting better at these."

"Thanks, Kirika," you say with a smile. "But, well, Oriko-"

"Have I ever considered trying to enchant precognition into a bauble of some kind?" Oriko finishes. "I have, but I had not tried it. As you and Kirika have taken great effort to impress upon me, I shouldn't rely too heavily on my precognition. And more recently, there has been a... factor."

"Oh?" you say, raising your eyebrows.

"The matter I wanted to bring up," she says. "I have been... getting flashes of visions - but not of the future. Of the present."

You blink, and then blink again. Instinctively, you check with your senses, and...

Her Soul is... still twisted on itself, but it's almost smoothing out now. You'd almost call it settling into a new shape entirely.

"Huh," you say, more to say something.

"Nothing useful or specific," Oriko says, frowning. "Random snatches from around the world, I suspect, and nothing I can direct. Perhaps that will change, but then again, perhaps not. It's... developing, I suppose, would be a good word."

[] Any last questions for Oriko and Kirika?
- [] Write-in
[] Next up
-[] Call Yuki. Arrange a visit. You need to talk:
--[] With Anri.
--[] With Yuki, about getting therapists involved and imprisoning Riona, and sharing contact information for meguca Befriending.
-[] Call Kyouko. You need to talk.
[] Write-in (word count limit: 150 words)


=====​

*coughs* So much for that Thursday update.

Do remember that Kirika's a teenager, too. Her advice on relationships is biased through that lens.
 
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Oho! New magic for Oriko is good news. I'll take it a good sign that she's moving to a better place. :)

...In many ways! :V

This also has me tilting more towards wanting to ask questions about Feathers again. Wonder if Oriko has seen it active elsewhere in the world.

------------------

In other news, I've been pondering suggesting going on a Mitakihara world tour to visit all the interested IRC groups we've been contacting at once sometime around Weekend Four (the 23rd and 24th) but there's the question of how to fit it all around various problems that might develop. (Potentialbomb stuff might be averted by taking Homura with us, but that requires taking Madoka too, which in turn probably need's her parents' permission and also means we need measures for protecting the city for two days.)

On the other hand, if we were out late in Europe, it would also an excellent reason to visit the Da Vittorio in Italy
 
We should ask Oriko what she's seen in her present visions so far.
 
"'s what I thought," Kirika says, humming thoughtfully. "See the thing is... you worry it's uneven, and I guess you're right, it sorta is. In her favour, because you're kind of a wimp. Wimp."
Pffft. :V

You go, Best Buddy.

Actually, now that we're officially friends, we're a step closer to actually being Best Buddies!

... Best Buddies being a different affective relationship spot than Best Friends, though, that one's Homura.

"Couldn't be better," Kirika says with a satisfied grin. "Been teaching her to shitpost."
[TREMBLING FEAR] *

"I'm good," you say, and grin at her. "And I'm here because... well, I guess I wanted to see my friends."

Oriko blinks, and then again.

You keep the grin on your face, raising your eyebrows at her.

And finally, Oriko sighs, slumping against Kirika.

"You shouldn't consider us- Kirika!" Oriko trails off into a whine and flinches away from Kirika, who's currently menacing her with something.

You blink. You'd nearly missed the motion - Kirika's hand all but blurred as she snatched... a squirt bottle from her pocket.
Yes! Squirt Bottle's come back!

In the future in which we somehow have a Pokemon Crossover and everyone turns into pokemons for a day, Kirika shall be the Squirtle. :p

"I..." She closes her eyes and exhales, before opening them meeting your gaze. "Yes. I... we're your friends, Sabrina. You've been kinder to us than I could have ever expected, and I'm more than grateful for that alone. I... do enjoy talking to you, frustrating though I find it."
I sure love this honesty O&K have with us.

You snort, smiling sheepishly. "Yeah, well, too close to the problem and all that. Plus, I had entirely valid doubts- agh!"

"Bad Sabrina," Kirika snaps, lowering the squirt bottle.
Best Best Buddy.

"Ah, but I might have experienced a vision of the future where I did, at which point I would likely have had a variation of this conversation," Oriko says. "Therefore, by foreseeing myself having that conversation I would be able to glean my own opinion."
* ... I THINK IT'S ALREADY TAKING EFFECT!

Everyone run for your lives...?! :o

You trust Yuki to stick to her word. She seems the type, and she certainly seems to want to hitch her star to yours. If you come into conflict with her, something has gone terribly wrong somewhere.
EPIC FORESHADOWING

"The matter I wanted to bring up," she says. "I have been... getting flashes of visions - but not of the future. Of the present."

You blink, and then blink again. Instinctively, you check with your senses, and...

Her Soul is... still twisted on itself, but it's almost smoothing out now. You'd almost call it settling into a new shape entirely.

"Huh," you say, more to say something.

"Nothing useful or specific," Oriko says, frowning. "Random snatches from around the world, I suspect, and nothing I can direct. Perhaps that will change, but then again, perhaps not. It's... developing, I suppose, would be a good word."
I had thought Oriko's Soul had already 'untwisted'. But this is awesome news.

Presentcog? That's one powerful ability. And I wonder if it could help with the private telepathy research we hinted Niko on...

Oh, but what does this mean for Oriko? She had precog because she was uncertain about what her life meant and heavily depressed, and her Wish basically led her to her death, giving her life meaning in some sort of martyrdom.

What does it mean if she can see the present? That her life's meaning has been achieved? Is this meant to be a defensive ability, being able to watch over those she cares at all times? Will Homura be super jelly of this power?

Also, how do we keep Homura from killing Oriko? :V

Do remember that Kirika's a teenager, too. Her advice on relationships is biased through that lens.
I don't know what you're talking about, I'm certain any certified professional would agree that love is an infinity of limitations. Totes.
Unacceptable. We crusade at dawn. :V
Wait, dawn? That's so early...
 
Kirika remains best and that Oriko considers Sabrina a friend is great. Even if she thinks we're kinda stupid for trusting her so easily.
 
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Finished second read, now have a thought and protovote.

"As I was about to say, Sabrina - the 'how' is simple," Oriko says. "She despairs in truth, because it means that for every gain she's made, the obstacles simply become more insurmountable. Walpurgisnacht alone is no longer her only foe to contend with, let alone the Incubator's increased machinations."
Hmm... Assuming conservation of detail, this bit feels like evidence towards the idea that Feathers is giving the potentialbomb more oomph than it "should" have. More notably, this also kinda implies to me that, whatever we're dealing with, it would be extremely likely to affect any new timelines.

---------------

I think this is a decent codification of my and Blast Flame's vote thoughts:
[] Last questions for Oriko and Kirika
- [] What has Oriko seen. Has she noticed there any common themes?
- [] Ask Oriko if she's remembers Feathers having any interest outside Mitakihara, and if it tends to act in response to anything in particular (after tragedies for instance)

"Common themes" because it's been batted about that Oriko's precog was previously focused about predicting threats. (Which probably didn't help the "All I see is death" side of things.) I doubt clairvoyance would work the same, but it might have another set of themes.

Might be a better way to phrase the second bit. Will have to think on it.

Not including future plans here yet because I wanted to base things on the current time and, since we're wrapping things up here, it might make everything simpler to just plain ask:

@Firnagzen Can I ask about what time it is, for planning purposes?
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't part of the reason for coming to Oriko so that we could ask how Homura takes us asking her what happened the previous loop? We were going to ask Homura, but then Redshirt suggested we run it by Oriko first, IIRC. In that case, maybe add something like
[ ] Ask Oriko how Homura takes it if you ask her what happened in the previous loop, and how it ended.
 
Hmm... Assuming conservation of detail, this bit feels like evidence towards the idea that Feathers is giving the potentialbomb more oomph than it "should" have. More notably, this also kinda implies to me that, whatever we're dealing with, it would be extremely likely to affect any new timelines.
EDIT: Sorry for longpost, but I've no time to make this more concise right now.

I don't think Feather necessarily has anything to do with it?

What Oriko said lines up pretty well with canon: As long as Homura believes looping is 'free', she only has to survive each loop and eventually she will win, no matter how small the chance to win each loop is.

But when she finds out each loop increases Madoka's potential, increases the odds of Madoka Contracting, thus reduces the chances of 'winning' each loop... Homura despairs.

To put it in math, Homura's working under the assumption that her looping works likes this:


Chance to win = constant.

Let's suppose it's 0,01%. That means Homura will win if she runs through a number of loops in between 1 and 20000, more or less 10000. So she just has to keep going and she'll win eventually.

(I picked 0,01% because the whole point is that the fight against Walpurgisnacht is basically hopeless, and Homura's looping is supposed to counter that. So just arbitrarily picked a really small number.)


But if the chance to win decreases each loop... it could be thought of like this, more or less:

Loop 1's chances to win are 0,01%.
Loop 2's chances to win are (k . 0,01%).
Loop 3's chances to win are (k^2 . 0,01%).
Loop 4's chances to win are (k^3 . 0,01%).
...

(With k being lower than 1, thus odds decreasing each time).

Which adds up to:

0,01% / 1 - k

If we supposed the chances of winning were cut in half each loop (number, again, arbitrarily picked), Homura's chances to win would only ever add up to 0,02%. All of them put together, even if she looped until the end of time and the multiverse.

No matter how long she loops.

And that's the important part.

Homura is working on the assumption that looping is free, so as long as she keeps going, she'll eventually win.

If she's Loopbombed, then she comes to realize each Loop makes things worse, so the odds of winning each subsequent loop are actually lower than the previous one. This actually destroys the idea that she will win as long as she keeps going. Utterly. While we don't have actual numbers, it's entirely possible that Homura never had a chance to win, no matter how long she looped. Ever.

That's why she despairs, because the illusion of certainty in her victory is shattered.
 
Correct me if i am wrong, but doesn't Homura's potential (as a witch) also increase with each loop?

I mean, the Devil of Love DID turn out to be stronger than the Goddess of Hope.

It's just that Homura can't tap into that without turning into a witch.

Do we also tell Homura any of that?

Forego the loopbomb for a full on 'Rebellionbomb' I guess?

Probably a bad idea.
 
Actually, the short version:

Walpurgisnacht: "The chances to beat me are infinitely small!"

Homura: "Then I'll try to beat you an infinite amount of times!"

Walpurgisnacht: "You fool! You borked it so now the chances of beat me are infinitelly infinitelly small! infinity squared! Even if you divide infinite squared by infinite, your chances of success are still infinitely small!"

Homura: "Oh no math!" *Despairs*


Correct me if i am wrong, but doesn't Homura's potential (as a witch) also increase with each loop?

I mean, the Devil of Love DID turn out to be stronger than the Goddess of Hope.

It's just that Homura can't tap into that without turning into a witch.

Do we also tell Homura any of that?
Ping Aura for this. :V

There's some fuckingness with Homura's need to protect Madoka likely making her strong enough to take down Madoka, or something like that.
 
EDIT: Sorry for longpost, but I've no time to make this more concise right now.

I don't think Feather necessarily has anything to do with it?

What Oriko said lines up pretty well with canon: As long as Homura believes looping is 'free', she only has to survive each loop and eventually she will win, no matter how small the chance to win each loop is.

But when she finds out each loop increases Madoka's potential, increases the odds of Madoka Contracting, thus reduces the chances of 'winning' each loop... Homura despairs.

To put it in math, Homura's working under the assumption that her looping works likes this:


Chance to win = constant.

Let's suppose it's 0,01%. That means Homura will win if she runs through a number of loops in between 1 and 20000, more or less 10000. So she just has to keep going and she'll win eventually.

(I picked 0,01% because the whole point is that the fight against Walpurgisnacht is basically hopeless, and Homura's looping is supposed to counter that. So just arbitrarily picked a really small number.)


But if the chance to win decreases each loop... it could be thought of like this, more or less:

Loop 1's chances to win are 0,01%.
Loop 2's chances to win are (k . 0,01%).
Loop 3's chances to win are (k^2 . 0,01%).
Loop 4's chances to win are (k^3 . 0,01%).
...

(With k being lower than 1, thus odds decreasing each time).

Which adds up to:

0,01% / 1 - k

If we supposed the chances of winning were cut in half each loop (number, again, arbitrarily picked), Homura's chances to win would only ever add up to 0,02%. All of them put together, even if she looped until the end of time and the multiverse.

No matter how long she loops.

And that's the important part.

Homura is working on the assumption that looping is free, so as long as she keeps going, she'll eventually win.

If she's Loopbombed, then she comes to realize each Loop makes things worse, so the odds of winning each subsequent loop are actually lower than the previous one. This actually destroys the idea that she will win as long as she keeps going. Utterly. While we don't have actual numbers, it's entirely possible that Homura never had a chance to win, no matter how long she looped. Ever.

That's why she despairs, because the illusion of certainty in her victory is shattered.
Except there's a specific thing in the quote that I'm looking at: The phase "Walpurgisnacht alone is no longer her only foe to contend with."

Sure, you could argue that the potential bomb is her foe is some big metaphorical fashion, but it doesn't fit with the way Oriko talks about "the incubator's machinations" in her next breath. If she'd had meant the situation around the potentialbomb as a whole, I would imagine she'd have phrased her word choice much differently.

To me, it says that that "new foe" is an actual specific being, and that that being is now likely part of the loops to stay.

The most likely candidate for all that being Feathers.
 
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So is Oriko going to become a magical girl video call-centre?

Im guessing that she could eventually enchant screens with present-cog to show others her visions.
 
Walpurgisnacht: "The chances to beat me are infinitely small!"

Homura: "Then I'll try to beat you an infinite amount of times!"

Walpurgisnacht: "You fool! You borked it so now the chances of beat me are infinitelly infinitelly small! infinity squared! Even if you divide infinite squared by infinite, your chances of success are still infinitely small!"

Homura: "Oh no math!" *Despairs*


...do we have word on whether or not Homura actually empowers Walpurgisnacht?

I mean the only one we see getting stronger each loop is Kriemhild Gretchen, not Walpurgis.

I mean...Homura would've noticed that?


It's entirely possible that Homura IS on the right track and Walpurgis is just nigh impossible to beat with the tactics Homura has used so far (so even if she has looped *insert high number here* -times it's still not nearly enough?), and it's not like Homura has exhausted them all ( I am pretty sure she never tried the "literal army of MG'S with infinite magic backing them up" approach until now)

What i am afraid of is that Homura may be on a TIMELIMIT and she hasn't realized it.

I mean, we went from Madoka witching out as normal to Madoka witching out as soon as she contracts.

If this continues further there might be a loop where Madoka witches out on arrival regardless on whether or not she contracts at all.

...If Kriemhild doesn't figure out a way to follow Homura through the loops first, that is.

Of course, those are the nightmare scenarios, but those don't really apply to the current loop (unless, somehow, the chance of Madoka contracting by way of Karma, also increase with each loop, and wouldn't THAT be a kick in the balls)

But again, i don't think it's WALPURGIS that's the problem/the one growing stronger here).

I am just worried we might make the "loopbomb" out to be worse than it is, and cause Homura unnecessary grief ( Ha! )
 
...do we have word on whether or not Homura actually empowers Walpurgisnacht?

I mean the only one we see getting stronger each loop is Kriemhild Gretchen, not Walpurgis.

I mean...Homura would've noticed that?


It's entirely possible that Homura IS on the right track and Walpurgis is just nigh impossible to beat with the tactics Homura has used so far (so even if she has looped *insert high number here* -times it's still not nearly enough?), and it's not like Homura has exhausted them all ( I am pretty sure she never tried the "literal army of MG'S with infinite magic backing them up" approach until now)

What i am afraid of is that Homura may be on a TIMELIMIT and she hasn't realized it.

I mean, we went from Madoka witching out as normal to Madoka witching out as soon as she contracts.

If this continues further there might be a loop where Madoka witches out on arrival regardless on whether or not she contracts at all.

...If Kriemhild doesn't figure out a way to follow Homura through the loops first, that is.

Of course, those are the nightmare scenarios, but those don't really apply to the current loop (unless, somehow, the chance of Madoka contracting by way of Karma, also increase with each loop, and wouldn't THAT be a kick in the balls)

But again, i don't think it's WALPURGIS that's the problem/the one growing stronger here).

I am just worried we might make the "loopbomb" out to be worse than it is, and cause Homura unnecessary grief ( Ha! )

I typed that in a hurry and, well, it was more comedic than anything. I mean what I was saying before, that the chances of Homura winning go down each loop, because of Madoka's Potential and corresponding chance to Contract, not because of Walpurgis' strength. In a way, it's related, what with Walp's meta nature, but I did mean the other thing.

Except there's a specific thing in the quote that I'm looking at: The phase "Walpurgisnacht alone is no longer her only foe to contend with."

Sure, you could argue that the potential bomb is her foe is some big metaphorical fashion, but it doesn't fit with the way Oriko talks about "the incubator's machinations" in her next breath. If she'd had meant the situation around the potentialbomb as a whole, I would imagine she'd have phrased her word choice much differently.

To me, it says that that "new foe" is an actual specific being, and that that being is now likely part of the loops to stay.

The most likely candidate for all that being Feathers.
I have a problem with this sentence, I realize. Subconsciously.

Homura seemed accepting of the possibility of Feathers being a thing, that one time she brought it up, but Oriko's warning of the Loopbomb was before that. We know the loopbomb would break Homu, Feathers or no Feathers.

It's like...

Loopbomb = Break Homu.

Loopbomb + Feathers = Break Homu. Even more. Which makes sense, but it's kind of meaningless, like stomping on a broken piece of china that was already broekn beyond repair.

And I do mean it makes sense what you're saying. But I have trouble wrapping my head around it.

Is Feather's objective to throw a shovel at Homu once she reaches rock bottom? To break her further than completely broken? Is this somehow proof that Feathers=Homulilly?

I am le confused.
 
I mean, we went from Madoka witching out as normal to Madoka witching out as soon as she contracts.
If this continues further there might be a loop where Madoka witches out on arrival regardless on whether or not she contracts at all.
Only meguca naturally witch out, it being a function of the Soul Gem. Homura's already at the worst case scenario as far as Madoka's contract goes - the only change with additional loops is more Incubator focus on Madoka.
Don't try to use that as a mitigating point for the Loopbomb though - it's just saying she's already made it nearly as bad as it could be.
 
If Kirika is interested in doing some homework, she could try checking out the meguca IRCs that Nadia shared with us, see what's the current gossip around the globe for meguca kind. Might be a good way to see if the white rat is already planting seeds of doubt against us on other groups, and she could gather info on other IRCs we haven't known about yet.

Also, am I the only one that, whenever we have these awesome fluffy moments with best buddy, get some regretful flashbacks of Sabrina holding Kirika's gem in one hand and a cloud of grief in another?
 
If Kirika is interested in doing some homework, she could try checking out the meguca IRCs that Nadia shared with us, see what's the current gossip around the globe for meguca kind. Might be a good way to see if the white rat is already planting seeds of doubt against us on other groups, and she could gather info on other IRCs we haven't known about yet.

Also, am I the only one that, whenever we have these awesome fluffy moments with best buddy, get some regretful flashbacks of Sabrina holding Kirika's gem in one hand and a cloud of grief in another?
I think we suggested that, but Oriko replied with 'Putting us in contact with a bunch of foreign magical girls will make Homura think we're building an army. Do you want her to kill us?'
 
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