I also think it's important to keep in mind about when both Kyouko and Homura tried to save Sayaka from her self-destructive spiral in their own ways. Neither succeeded, but Sayaka apologized to Kyouko and admitted she had misjudged her. Homura just failed miserably.

I keep rewriting this post over and over again because I'm having difficulty articulating myself here, but I think that there's something deeper in Sayaka's enmity towards Homura more than is portrayed in that post.
 
I also think it's important to keep in mind about when both Kyouko and Homura tried to save Sayaka from her self-destructive spiral in their own ways. Neither succeeded, but Sayaka apologized to Kyouko and admitted she had misjudged her. Homura just failed miserably.

I keep rewriting this post over and over again because I'm having difficulty articulating myself here, but I think that there's something deeper in Sayaka's enmity towards Homura more than is portrayed in that post.
Sayaka apologized to Kyouko because Kyouko spilled her guts about her entire life story to her, while Homura didn't.

That's the sum and total of that difference.
 
In her pyre, in her kiln: Akemi Homura burns.

It is, after all, her kiln. It would not be right to give that which is not hers to give. To make others may for the choices her made not only runs counter to why she does it all, it's also something she would never do.

On a lighter note - let it be said that Homura never fails to put her money where her mouth is.
 
Okay, then:V

It would probably be awkward.

OK fine just get Homura drunk and she can tell her story to Sayaka. : P

Drunk Homura might even slip into moe mode : P

The issue, I suppose, is that unlike Kyouko Homura's shell is harder to break. Maybe. Like Kyouko ended up opening up to Sayaka since her self of justice spoke to something Kyouko had buried.

umm.... I'm too tired to think on this.
 
Last edited:
OK fine just get Homura drunk and she can tell her story to Sayaka. : P

Drunk Homura might even slip into moe mode : P

The issue, I suppose, is that unlike Kyouko Homura's shell is harder to break. Maybe. Like Kyouko ended up opening up to Sayaka since her self of justice spoke to something Kyouko had buried.

umm.... I'm too tired to think on this.
The problem is that nothing that could break Homura's shell would do so around Sayaka. The Lichbomb was what broke through Kyouko's shell, not anything that Sayaka did.

And really, considering how surprised Homura was at Madoka pitching Sayaka's soul gem off the bridge, that's probably never happened before.

That might be something worth thinking on, just how does the usual loop go?
 
Mmmm.

Homura... Homura stared at a wasteland, with her life bought by a friend. And instead of accepting it, she lit a great pyre, and unto that pyre she fed her very soul that her friend should live, whether alongside or instead of herself.

Every loop Akemi Homura could simply leave. She could even kill herself, and rest. But these things she does not even consider.

Every loop Akemi Homura turns her shield and steps willingly back into the fires of the pyre she lit, her personal hell. Every loop she fails and is condemned to suffer. Every loop the shield turns.

And when that pyre would flicker out -- when Homura could go no further -- she offered up more of herself to burn. Her innocence. Her health. Her friendships.

But never her friends.

...

In her pyre, in her kiln: Akemi Homura burns.

*cough*

I'm nicking that for Mami Souls, just so you know. :V

Well, I kid, somewhat, but it's quite an apt discription. :thonk:
 
Bolting some general shopping plans for the rest of the update to Kaizuki's giant thing.

Hey, I said I'd do it! :V

Also essentially cutting everything after the raid and saving it in a spoiler box, because we're not going to get past that point. Firn notes that those things will have dedicated updates anyways so there's really no need to go into it this update beyond the fact that we're planning to meet Oriko first.

[X] Explain Sayaka to Homura, using this post as a knowledge base.
-[X] Her personal character: who she is, what her central characteristics are, etc.
-[X] Her actions: why she has done what she has done in the past.
-[X] Her present actions: why she's doing what she is doing now.
-[X] Answer, as possible, any questions Homura may have, as they develop -- this is a talk, not a speech. If there's something the knowledge base isn't equipped for, break.
-[X] Slip in compliments towards Sayaka wherever possible. These topics are going to be pretty negative, but... Sayaka's a good person and friend, who would absolutely have jumped at the chance to help Homura if she'd only ever really known the way you do.
-[X] Explain that this is why you're so positive about telling Sayaka about the loops, but reiterate that you're never going to press Homura over it.

[X] During the raid.
-[X] Ask to vent a bit. You trust Homura to hear you out.
--[X] Talk about your frustrations, recurring problems and fears about helping magical girls, and dealing with secrets.
--[X] Don't overwhelm her.
-[X] Lighten up. Geek out about whichever weapons you find.
-[X] Ask Homura if she knows other Yakuza bases than the one in Mitakihara
-[X] Enchant some grief if you have time.

[X] After the raid...
-[X] Firnvote
-[X] Meet with Oriko first. Cut to voting if we reach this point.
-[] Privacy Device.
-[] Tell O&K they're your friends.
-[] Discuss the potentialbomb and Homura's reaction.
-[] Make an Enchanted-Griefhax psychometer to figure out where and who the Feather came from.
[] Contact Kyouko to see how she and Yuma are doing next
[] Contact Yuki to discuss Airi and a potential visit after that
 
Last edited:
She... might already have one in her shield? Granted beyond entire munitions factories and junk food it's hard to say.

Hopefully she has a towel. The universe is much easier to travel with a towel
 
Did somebody say "Halloween omake"? Was that person me, asking if someone had said "Halloween omake"? Who knows? Halloween omake!



Sayaka taps her feet, glancing at her phone while Madoka giggles nervously.

"Where are they?" says Sayaka, plastic armor clinking "They were supposed to be here ten minutes ago!"

"Maybe they lost track of time?" suggests Madoka, adjusting her cloak.

"With Homura around? And for that matter, they could just timestop over here if they felt like it."

"Hey Sayaka!" shouts Sabrina, somehow right behind her. "What's up?"

Sayaka lets out a blood-curdling scream, jumping back and staring at the group of four that suddenly appeared. "Sabrina! You- ha, you had Homura bring you behind me… ha ha ha…"

Sabrina, Mami, and the Kures all share a look. "Err, we didn't meet up with Homura," says Sabrina, planting her broomstick on the ground. "Actually, that's her right there!"

Sayaka spins around, but sees nothing. Shaking her head, she turns back around. "Sabrina, what are you talking about-" Standing right behind Sabrina is Homura herself, in her magical girl attire and thoroughly unnoticed.

Well well well, Sayaka thinks to herself. It seems that Homura wants to mess with Sabrina a bit more than she wants to mess with me.

"Oh, haha, you got me!" says Sayaka. "Well, I guess that's it."

Sabrina laughs in triumph, hands planted firmly on her hips. "Heheh. Sabrina strikes again! Say, where is Homura?"

Mami stops re-wrapping one of her bandages and stares at Homura. She tugs on Sabrina's sleeve. "S-Sabrina-"

"She's right behind me, isn't she?"

Mami nods.

"Well, crap-"

"Hello, Sabrina."

Sabrina spins around, intent on trapping her friend in a hug, but Homura's already beside Madoka. Sabrina strides forward, mission still a go, but she freezes when Homura slips her hand in Madoka's.

Homura stares at Sabrina, silently challenging Sabrina to hug her and break physical contact. Internally, Sabrina is equal parts proud and frustrated. If she goes in for the hug, Madoka and Homura will be broken apart, and stop holding hands. Leave it to Homura to make a dead-man's switch for being hugged.

Sabrina stops, lowering her arms and admitting defeat. The corners of Homura's mouth lift a few millimeters, an expression of total bliss by her standards. Meanwhile, Madoka's cheeks are turning the same color as her hair as she stares at her hand.

Sabrina shrugs, and points to a figure coming around the corner. "Hey, there's Kyoko!" Sabrina waves at the approaching redhead and the fluffy object at her feet. "Hey guys!" she shouts.

"Hello!" shouts the lump of fluff. As they get closer, Sayaka and the others can identify it as Yuma Chitose, dressed in an incredibly fluffy lion costume.

"Hi, you two," says Sabrina. "Nice costume, Yuma!"

A small hand rises out of fluff, giving a thumbs up.

"Alright, what's everyone dressed as?" says Madoka, blushing up a storm but still gripping Homura's hand. "I, for example, am a vampire."

"You look quite elegant," says Homura nodding. Madoka smiles at her, and Sayaka rolls her eyes.

"Well, since I'm obviously dressed as a knight, I'm going to guess that Kirika's a…" Sayaka leans forward, squinting.

"I'm a pirate!" shouts Kirika. "Arrgh, moitey!"

"Kirika, dear, those are not pirate sounds."

"If you're a pirate and you make a sound, then it's a pirate sound!"

Dear, you aren't actually a pirate. You know this, right?"

Kirika stares at the ground, expressionless. Sabrina laughs nervously, patting her on the back and gesturing towards Oriko. "And Oriko, you're, uhh, a zombie, right!"

Oriko nods. "I thought it would be appropriate."

Homura nods. "Finally, something we can agree on."

Madoka makes a gesture that's probably supposed to be a kick directed at Homura's ankle, and while it's far too light to do anything Homura stops her banter.

"Now, Yuma's obviously a lion," says Sabrina. "Because lions are big and scary, right?"

Kyoko smirks. "And we can do this." She skips her hands under Yuma's armpits, hoisting the smaller girl above her head. "Aaaaaaaaa, Sevenyaaaaaa, amati chiwawa!"

"Sithi uhm ingonyama!" finishes Sabrina, earning some stares from her companions.

"You… actually know the lyrics?" says Kyoko, still holding Yuma above her head. "I'm not sure if that lame or amazing."

"Oh, Sabrina…" Mami shakes her head. "And Sabrina is, of course, a witch."

"Sabrina the teenage witch!" says Sabrina. "Witch-Girl! I had to!"

"No, Sabrina," says Homura. "You really didn't."

"Come on, Homura. Say, what are you dressed as?"

Homura sighs, and un-transforms back into her costume. Well, she's supposed to, but she instead stands in her regular clothes.

"What kind of costume is that?" says Sayaka.

"I'm dressed as a regular human," says Homura. "To represent how pointless life is, and how nothing matters in an uncaring world."

Sayaka blinks, taken aback.

"We have an entire holiday dedicated to dressing up as something else, borne of a desire to be meaningful," continues Homura. "Nothing matters."

"You-you dressed as nihilism?"

Homura nods.

Kyoko puts her arms behind her head. "I decided to go as a smoking hot, totally badass magical girl," she says.

"K-Kyoko…" says Sayaka. "You're just transformed. You're wearing your magical girl outfit…"

"Sayaka, are you saying you think I'm a smoking hot badass? I'm flattered!"

Sayaka sputters, face turning red, and Yuma fist-bumps Kyoko. "Actually, Big Sis spent too long working on my costume and didn't have time to find her own."

"C'mon, Sayaka, you walked right into that one," says Sabrina. She puts an arm around Sayaka's shoulders, leaning in and whispering "Sayaka, do you want some advice?"

Sayak nods. "I need to get back at Kyoko, match her tit for tat!"

"If you really want to mess her up, then there's only one thing to do; ask her out."

Sayaka narrows her eyes. "You don't want to help me get back at her, do you? You want to hook us up!"

"No, no, I'm being serious. Once the night's over and we're all going home, ask her out; the look on her face will be amazing, and you'll have an entire day to banter with her!"

Sayaka nods, slowly. "Yeah… that might work… and if she thinks I'm just messing with her, then I'll give her the best date ever! But if she thinks I'm serious...well, it would be way too cruel to mess with her, so I'll have to give her an amazing date then as well!"

Sabrina smiles. "I'm sure she'll say yes, and she'll probably be more nervous than you, so you'll be able to beat her in your verbal sparring!"

But you won't win, Sabrina thinks. You'll get nervous as well! And then, when Kyoko manages to keep her cool, you'll have to try again! And slowly, you'll realize that you like these dates not because you want to beat Kyoko in some dumb verbal sparring, but because you like Kyoko!

Skipping back, Sabrina smiles. "Now there's only one last person."

"I'm here!" Nagisa shouts, running around the corner. Her costume is simple; she is dressed as a block of cheese.

"Hiya, Nagisa!" says Sabrina. "Now, if everyone's here- let's go trick-or-treating!"

"For candy!" shout Kyoko and Yuma. "For candy!" the others echo.

Mitakihara didn't know what hit it.
 
Sabrina spins around, intent on trapping her friend in a hug, but Homura's already beside Madoka. Sabrina strides forward, mission still a go, but she freezes when Homura slips her hand in Madoka's.

Homura stares at Sabrina, silently challenging Sabrina to hug her and break physical contact. Internally, Sabrina is equal parts proud and frustrated. If she goes in for the hug, Madoka and Homura will be broken apart, and stop holding hands. Leave it to Homura to make a dead-man's switch for being hugged.

Sabrina stops, lowering her arms and admitting defeat. The corners of Homura's mouth lift a few millimeters, an expression of total bliss by her standards. Meanwhile, Madoka's cheeks are turning the same color as her hair as she stares at her hand.
Oh Lord... it seems Sabrina forgot about her special tech: Group Hug!
 
I'm not completely brain damaged anymore.
*hugs* I'm glad to hear you're recovering. I know a the feeling for a lot of the things you've described dealing with and its good to hear you're getting out of that space.

This is just a megavote with extra steps.
Firn explicitly okayed and even lightly argued for a longer vote this time, to both fit in matters about the shopping trip and the argument we make to Homura here.

I think Kaizuki's perfectly fine here and if our catgirl is overstepping things a bit, Firn can say how and why.

For the time being however, I agree with Kaizuki that right now Homura is requesting a detailed, complicated argument and care and attention are needed to give it.
 
Last edited:
"If you really want to mess her up, then there's only one thing to do; ask her out."

Sayaka narrows her eyes. "You don't want to help me get back at her, do you? You want to hook us up!"

"No, no, I'm being serious. Once the night's over and we're all going home, ask her out; the look on her face will be amazing, and you'll have an entire day to banter with her!"

Sayaka nods, slowly. "Yeah… that might work… and if she thinks I'm just messing with her, then I'll give her the best date ever! But if she thinks I'm serious...well, it would be way too cruel to mess with her, so I'll have to give her an amazing date then as well!"
It takes a special kind of stupid to not realize you're being hooked up with someone.

It takes a special special kind of willingly stupid to realize you're being hooked up with someone, then unrealize you're being hooked up with someone. :V

Homura is a detailed, complicated argument
:thonk:

"You want what?! How could you possible think this is a good idea? When you know what they've done, what we're working for, this must be a joke?! Sabrina, you're out of your Madoka damned mind, what are you thinking?!"

"Homu Homu."

"Shit, that makes sense."

This is just a megavote with extra steps.
I think the '150 words' is a joke, for what's worth?
 
Thought... would having Homura tell her story under the guise of it being about another girl work? I suppose not if you keep the loop as time related powers are rare... but if you changed the right details it could work... maybe?

Then Sayaka is smart enough to connect 1 and 1 to get 2. Also smart enough to hopefully realize why Homura made a story up.
 
She... might already have one in her shield? Granted beyond entire munitions factories and junk food it's hard to say.

Hopefully she has a towel. The universe is much easier to travel with a towel

She definitely has a notebook.

This is just a megavote with extra steps.

Meh I guess I'm writing this anyway:

Your claim misses the point entirely.

How?

Because I care about how easy or hard it is for Firnagzen to take a given vote and write it into actions by Sabrina in Sabrina's voice, perspective, and character.

The giant votes of "say these things in these ways in this order" (cough what i write as first drafts cough) are abominations from this point of view. They try to give Firnagzen -- and Sabrina -- no agency except through the reactions of other characters. In the process they make Sabrina unable to dynamically respond to the situation. See:

[] People are complicated. Millions of tiny features contribute to their actions, and nobody can account for all of them. But.
[] Sayaka is... Loyal, hardworking when she puts her mind to it, strong moral compass... And highly judgemental, with low self-esteem and lower self-worth. For the most part, these traits define who she is, what she does, and how she sees the world.
-[] Stemming from those, and from her youth and lack of experience, she sees the world in black and white. Either someone is a good person with forgivable flaws, or a bad person who might do something decent on occasion but isn't to be trusted... and she makes conclusions about who falls into which category really, really quickly.
--[] It makes her a great friend, someone who will never believe bad things about you, someone who takes your enemies as her own... Just as long as you're not in conflict with another of her friends who she admires more greatly or is closer to.
---[] She values Madoka the most. Then Mami, who she takes as a role model due to her low self-worth and her morals, seeing Mami as a Hero of Justice where she sees herself as just a talentless poor girl. Hitomi falls in there somewhere, but you're much less clear on that. And then the trouble has always been that Sayaka decides Kyubey is good people and doesn't trust or admire Homura enough to place her over Kyubey.
----[] How that actually happens is complicated, and you don't have much information to work with, but it's some blend of Mami trusting Kyubey and Kyubey making good first impressions. You're almost certain it's mostly that Mami trusts Kyubey -- Mami is who Sayaka wants to be, from Sayaka's point of view, so she can't have bad people as her friends.
-----[] Once Sayaka sees Kyubey as a "good person who might have forgivable flaws," and doesn't view Homura more highly than Kyubey... Then it's "Why would Kyubey do that," and what she really means when she says that is "I am not willing to believe youtelling me that Kyubey is actually evil." And more recently, when Homura makes a poor first impression on Sayaka, usually coming off as cold, then Sayaka categorizes her as a bad person for it and promptly will believe things like "Homura is the reason Mami is dead," because that's what bad people do, right?
------[] Here, that's been turned on its head from the moment Mami broke down crying about Kyubey being an evil bastard in front of Sayaka. Sayaka admires Mami a helluva lot more than Kyubey -- Mami is the nice cake-baking senpai who risks her life fighting monsters, in Sayaka's eyes, while Kyubey is just kind of there. And so the moment Mami turns on Kyubey, Sayaka believes, and then Kyubey is evil.Meanwhile, Homura is Mami's friend, and Mami can't have bad people as her friends, so Homura is a good person who might have forgivable flaws. Things kind of stay in limbo for a while, because Sayaka hasn't figured out a way to forgive what she sees as Homura's flaws -- and then Walpurgisnacht is explained, and suddenly Homura is Captain Ahab, all abrasive and sketchy and unfriendly but actually she's at heart a good person out to kill a giant monster. Now Homura is Sayaka's friend and a good person, and... well, Sayaka stands by and helps her friends.
---[] As for her tendency to get herself killed through bullheaded idiocy... It's a product of her lack of self worth, her contact with Mami, her rich and/or to her eyes more talented friends, and her morals, and in many ways these things are exacerbated here. Sayaka feels on some level that she's lived her life in the shadow of others, and even that she pulls them down, that she doesn't have anything to contribute to society. Homura may have heard her sometimes say that she doesn't really know what she wants to do with her life... in being a Magical Girl, Sayaka finds a calling. Problem is it's not in being a Magical Girl, but in being the kind of Magical Girl that Mami is. Selflessly protecting others from witches is, she decides, what she can do where Kyousuke has violin, where Hitomi is rich and talented. Add in a good dose of grief and she's totally willing to throw away her own life... and then she also rejects help from anybody she thinks of as a bad person, because bad people aren't to be trusted and therefore accepting their help isn't to be done.
[] ... Put together, all of this is, by the by, why you believe Sayaka in particular, here, would react positively to Homura's past. Telling her about it doesn't work when she's thinking of Kyubey as a good person, or Homura as a bad person. But things are reversed. She wants to believe good things about Homura because Homura is a good person. She'll readily believe bad things about Kyubey because it's a bad "person."

In contrast, laying out in third person our understanding of something and then voting to explain it based on that understanding -- Firnagzen has total agency to filter that through Sabrina's character, and because it is information rather than "say XYZ" it makes it very easy for Sabrina to act dynamically. See:

[X] Explain Sayaka to Homura, using this post as a knowledge base.
-[X] Her personal character: who she is, what her central characteristics are, etc.
-[X] Her actions: why she has done what she has done in the past.
-[X] Her present actions: why she's doing what she is doing now.
-[X] Answer, as possible, any questions Homura may have, as they develop -- this is a talk, not a speech. If there's something the knowledge base isn't equipped for, break.
-[X] Slip in compliments towards Sayaka wherever possible. These topics are going to be pretty negative, but... Sayaka's a good person and friend, who would absolutely have jumped at the chance to help Homura if she'd only ever really known the way you do.
-[X] Explain that this is why you're so positive about telling Sayaka about the loops, but reiterate that you're never going to press Homura over it.

I wrote the Mami vote as a speaking-form for two reasons. First, because I was at the time relatively heavily brain damaged compared to where I am now and I was unable to fully unpack the meanings of the words into third-person essay as I've done here. Second, because it was Mami, and I knew damn well that those exact words would work even if I was too fucked up to unpack them terribly well.

But. I didn't like that I wrote it that way. Dynamic form is much bettern. Also, using it doesn't cause me to profusely apologize to firn for a couple weeks after >_>

So, when you criticize it as "just a megavote with extra steps"... One, you ignore a QM post, two, you miss the point entirely.

I think the '150 words' is a joke, for what's worth?

The 150 words is for Redshirt's OCD.
 
Last edited:
Thought... would having Homura tell her story under the guise of it being about another girl work? I suppose not if you keep the loop as time related powers are rare... but if you changed the right details it could work... maybe?

Then Sayaka is smart enough to connect 1 and 1 to get 2. Also smart enough to hopefully realize why Homura made a story up.

Frankly my preference would just be to have us do the storytelling with a massive grief visual aid, and reproduce the exact scene of Madoka's dream for authenticity. Involves less suffering for Homu. But I could see alternative arguments.

E: and then if anybody asks why Homyra isn't doing the storytelling we just look at them and ask if they really think she should have to go through anything more.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top