I dimly remember it working for Oriko? But don't quote me on that.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
The magic booster does indeed work on other people. Oriko tried it, then shortly afterwards ditched it.
I don't think the enchantment booster was ever given to anyone, but given that they both took the form of the Infinity Gauntlet (with different gems), it seems likely it'd also work.
I don't think the enchantment booster was ever given to anyone, but given that they both took the form of the Infinity Gauntlet (with different gems), it seems likely it'd also work.
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Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Welcome!
1- Make Grief Enchanting Aid.
2- Use it to make a Speckled Enchantment of Enchanting Aid (doesn't matter whether Mami or we do this step).
3- Give it to Mami for studying, so she can improve her own enchanting.
I have doubts whether 2 would actually work, but if it does, I think this could help Mami polish her own skills.
Either Mami will be able to make such an Enchanting Aid entirely with her own magic*, or at least she might be able to observe how the Enchanting Aid works, and copy its functions for her own use.
*The finished magic needs to be fully Mami's work, otherwise it would fail at existing outside our Control range. Not that Mami's often outside our Control range.
For ourselves, if it turns out we can make a Speckled Enchantment of Enchanting Aid, then we can not only give it to Mami for studying, we can keep it on our person afterwards, since it shouldn't feel very Witchy. Then we could use it any time.
EDIT: We might as well add this to the list of things to try, just for potential future use. We were gonna make some Speckled Enchantments a few updates ago, but we got interrupted.
By the way, I remember a silly thought I had:
What if the reason Riona says it's so obvious our Soul is weird... is because she's seeing our Grief Fog?
I doubt recursive enchanting boosting would work quite so well... but what I could see, going in this direction:
1- Make Grief Enchanting Aid.
2- Use it to make a Speckled Enchantment of Enchanting Aid (doesn't matter whether Mami or we do this step).
3- Give it to Mami for studying, so she can improve her own enchanting.
I have doubts whether 2 would actually work, but if it does, I think this could help Mami polish her own skills.
Either Mami will be able to make such an Enchanting Aid entirely with her own magic*, or at least she might be able to observe how the Enchanting Aid works, and copy its functions for her own use.
*The finished magic needs to be fully Mami's work, otherwise it would fail at existing outside our Control range. Not that Mami's often outside our Control range.
For ourselves, if it turns out we can make a Speckled Enchantment of Enchanting Aid, then we can not only give it to Mami for studying, we can keep it on our person afterwards, since it shouldn't feel very Witchy. Then we could use it any time.
EDIT: We might as well add this to the list of things to try, just for potential future use. We were gonna make some Speckled Enchantments a few updates ago, but we got interrupted.
By the way, I remember a silly thought I had:
What if the reason Riona says it's so obvious our Soul is weird... is because she's seeing our Grief Fog?
First time we make it, it was a bracelet, I think. Firn changed it because Infinity Gauntlet, I guess.
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mCooperative
meanderingCephalopod
- Location
- Back in Mitakihara after like 1000 years.
What if the reason Riona says it's so obvious our Soul is weird... is because she's seeing our Grief Fog?
Clearly our Grief Fog, like Sayaka's power gems, actually legitimately acts as an extension of our soul when examined. (referring to the power gems appearing more akin to familiars than anything else)
Clearly.
... yeah no that would look legitimately weird as heck, wouldn't it.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
You know what the MagiReco timeline logic does? It makes multiple parallel Homuras possible! And that means... Homura Tamura is definitely 100% canon now guys!
Sabrina needs to go visit the Empress Mami timeline, and maybe fite that Mami to get her to give back the power she took from our Mami.
Sabrina needs to go visit the Empress Mami timeline, and maybe fite that Mami to get her to give back the power she took from our Mami.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
>_>You know what the MagiReco timeline logic does? It makes multiple parallel Homuras possible! And that means... Homura Tamura is definitely 100% canon now guys!
Sabrina needs to go visit the Empress Mami timeline, and maybe fite that Mami to get her to give back the power she took from our Mami.
I don't think our Mami got her power stolen, she would be kind of dead or, at least, not kicking ass, if she had.
Must be a different multiverse.
But you know, if we get access to the omniverse, we... should look for an adult, happy Homura. A mature, satisfied with her life Homura. And Homura to guide all other Homuras.
So she can have a talk with our Homura, at least.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
We should especially look for it since it might be a time-limited resource. IIRC @AuraTwilight mentioned something about Homucifer (pseudo-symbolically/figuratively?) killing all of the Homuras that weren't on board with the "usurp god" plan during her ascention?
It's kind of a dream trip vision that probably also metaphorically represents Homucifer killing her own doubts, but with that level of metaphysical fuckery, metaphors have a noticible tendency to become literal...
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
The timetable to teach Homu to not hate herself got moved up.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
The timetable to teach Homu to not hate herself got moved up.
I mean, that's kind of the issue, isn't it? If we teach our Homu to not hate herself, then doesn't she just become one of the ones swept away in the tide?
Then again, metaphors and all that. Maybe she can become (emotionally) strong enough to (symbolically) beat Rebellion!Homura and (metaphorically) force her to acknowledge that there's a better way.
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Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
All I'm hearing is we need to start including Mami in our Homuhug time.
We shall slowly increase the amount of people Homu feels comfortable hugging at the same time, and thus build her up to be able to one day hug Madoka without reach down into her well off resignation and depression first.
And then, group hugs with Madoka in them.
Clear future goal, with clear intermediary steps in between. This is a good plan.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
See now I'm picturing Madoka finding out about Homura history and just hugging her, maybe thanking her too.
Maybe we should invite Homura out for more errands and stuff. I'm pretty sure Homura smiled more during the time Sabrina went with her to rob the Yakuza than for the previous week combined. Sabrina was also pretty useful helping load all the guns and stuff which is probably pretty damn boring.
Even better we can come up with ideas and invite Homura on our errands, that way she'd feel more useful.
Ahh but before I start here's the link to the list of ideas that I was working off, I've tried not to repeat anything that's already here.
The Grief Bending Idea list
My first post
Anyway since the last time worked out pretty well I'll throw in some more stuff and see if it sparks anything useful. I'm pretty sure most of these have been said before but I don't think there's any harm in bringing them up again from a fresh perspective.
Armor Up: So I've noticed that we're not always covered in Grief armor and I think that's a bit of mistake. I think we should just make it effectively part of the costume, especially whenever we meet new magical girls or fight Witches. Grief armor is our best defense and it feels a bit arrogant to not wear it whenever we're in a potentially dangerous situation. Also now that we can color the Grief without Witching it we can have whatever color we want. Huh what do you mean I just want to do this because I think cosplay is fun? Th-that's not the reason at all!
-Final Boss armor: Standard Grief color, add spiky bits, wings or a cape, you know the drill. It's the Final Boss Armor.
-Angel armor: White robes/plate, angel wings, angel halo.
-Iron Man armor: Yep armor made to look like Iron man.
-Wizard robes: Wizard robes, Wizard Hat, Wizard staff. Yer a teenage witch Sabrina.
I kind of want to make a cosplay session out of it, we know that you can change your costume with will so it could be fun to do it with Mami.
Persistent Grief: Enchant some Grief with 'do not dissipate' or 'stay together' or really anything and see if Sabrina can keep her Grief together even outside her control zone. I feel confident this is definitely going to work since when we tested this with a chibi the chibi's arm lost proper coherence but it didn't dissipate. I'd like to give Mami some jewellery (maybe a watch?) made out of our own magic.( I actually think our basic control enchantment will allow us to work outside our control zone.)
8 Hour Enchanting: So I'm pretty sure Homura is taking advantage of our Clear Seed to just straight up sleep in timestop. So maybe the next time she does so or whenever she's going to be doing a lot of stuff in timestop we could come along and really get a chance to test out a massive backlog of ideas. It doesn't actually need to go for 8 hours since we can just drop out early. (The obvious problem here is who wants to do testing and enchanting alone and without warehouse-kun?)
Time Stop Power Test: It's interesting that our utility fog didn't seem to bring along anything else when we entered timestop with Homura. I'm kind of wondering just how these things interact, can we for example make an entire room go full color (by just touching basically everything) while in timestop? It would certainly make it more inviting especially if we add some music.
An Independent Soul: Let's test out what happens when our soul gem gets really distant from our body. I'd like to do this in timestop, partially to prevent all our Grief escaping, partially because this is a really scary idea and Homura's timestop just has a really nice safe feeling. I kind of want to make it so Sabrina doesn't get deactivated when separated from her body and it might be a good step towards having multiple bodies (I know this has definitely been brought up before actually).
Pocket Space Theft: So I'm kind of interested in the pocket space, I'm almost certain these ideas have come up before but once again; pocketing Mami's Ribbon, Sending a clone into Mami's Pocket, Seeing what we can put into the pocket (can we grab stuff outside our control zone, do we need to touch it, etc.), storing enchanted items and Witch stuff.
Two Heads are Better than One: Make a second brain and see if it's capable of allowing multi-threading. Notably despite Sabrina's crazy good multi-tasking she can't focus on both making a Witch item and her surroundings at the same time properly. It'd be good if having a second mind could fix that, possibly just using a clone.
Sleep is for the weak: It seems that magical girl bodies need to sleep. On the other hand why do we need to stick to only having one body? I think the easiest way to get a second body is just to sever an arm, heal the arm back and then having the arm healed into a complete second body. Alternatively we can try to stick to enchanted/Witchy clone bodies. I think Homura for one would be quite interested in this idea. Having two bodies means you can swap between them and always have one active. (Something similar to this was mentioned fairly recently)
Cooking in Spaaaace: I'm pretty sure time isn't stopped in out pocket space. I'm kind of interested in just what cooking does in a void, what amazing new recipes can you develop? With our Grief control, pocket space and maybe some chibis we can reach new horizons in cuisine.
A Limo: Grab a bunch of Grief, make something that looks exactly like a limousine (maybe get some proper plates), make a driver out of grief, make cantilevers or whatever for sight. Proceed to be driven around by a Limo that you created out of thin air. Or maybe make an Aston Martin. Regardless we've gotta move around in style if we're gonna take Mami for a date right?
Multiple Mami: Have Mami copy our full size clone or maybe Sayaka's clone (use that magic control enhancer to speed things up). We now have multiple Mamis, we can spend time with Mami while she's in school. Huh Codependency, what's that?
Grief Masking: Almost forgot to add this. But while we can't remove the feeling of WITCH! from our Witchy constructs maybe we can mask it? Try making Grief radiate Happiness or unobtrusive or something. I know we've tried invisibility and that hasn't worked but maybe instead of trying to remove the WITCH we can try to just cover it up.
(I've got other ideas but I don't think there's any need to mention stuff like wanting to examine and make a familiar since I don't even have a new spin to put on that.)
Phew.. that was a lot of writing. I think I'll end it here for now. Thanks for reading.
Even better we can come up with ideas and invite Homura on our errands, that way she'd feel more useful.
I'm glad I've brought up new, or at least forgotten ideas. I was a bit worried they were all going to be super obvious things you'd already thought of.
Ahh but before I start here's the link to the list of ideas that I was working off, I've tried not to repeat anything that's already here.
The Grief Bending Idea list
My first post
Anyway since the last time worked out pretty well I'll throw in some more stuff and see if it sparks anything useful. I'm pretty sure most of these have been said before but I don't think there's any harm in bringing them up again from a fresh perspective.
Armor Up: So I've noticed that we're not always covered in Grief armor and I think that's a bit of mistake. I think we should just make it effectively part of the costume, especially whenever we meet new magical girls or fight Witches. Grief armor is our best defense and it feels a bit arrogant to not wear it whenever we're in a potentially dangerous situation. Also now that we can color the Grief without Witching it we can have whatever color we want. Huh what do you mean I just want to do this because I think cosplay is fun? Th-that's not the reason at all!
-Final Boss armor: Standard Grief color, add spiky bits, wings or a cape, you know the drill. It's the Final Boss Armor.
-Angel armor: White robes/plate, angel wings, angel halo.
-Iron Man armor: Yep armor made to look like Iron man.
-Wizard robes: Wizard robes, Wizard Hat, Wizard staff. Yer a teenage witch Sabrina.
I kind of want to make a cosplay session out of it, we know that you can change your costume with will so it could be fun to do it with Mami.
Persistent Grief: Enchant some Grief with 'do not dissipate' or 'stay together' or really anything and see if Sabrina can keep her Grief together even outside her control zone. I feel confident this is definitely going to work since when we tested this with a chibi the chibi's arm lost proper coherence but it didn't dissipate. I'd like to give Mami some jewellery (maybe a watch?) made out of our own magic.( I actually think our basic control enchantment will allow us to work outside our control zone.)
8 Hour Enchanting: So I'm pretty sure Homura is taking advantage of our Clear Seed to just straight up sleep in timestop. So maybe the next time she does so or whenever she's going to be doing a lot of stuff in timestop we could come along and really get a chance to test out a massive backlog of ideas. It doesn't actually need to go for 8 hours since we can just drop out early. (The obvious problem here is who wants to do testing and enchanting alone and without warehouse-kun?)
Time Stop Power Test: It's interesting that our utility fog didn't seem to bring along anything else when we entered timestop with Homura. I'm kind of wondering just how these things interact, can we for example make an entire room go full color (by just touching basically everything) while in timestop? It would certainly make it more inviting especially if we add some music.
An Independent Soul: Let's test out what happens when our soul gem gets really distant from our body. I'd like to do this in timestop, partially to prevent all our Grief escaping, partially because this is a really scary idea and Homura's timestop just has a really nice safe feeling. I kind of want to make it so Sabrina doesn't get deactivated when separated from her body and it might be a good step towards having multiple bodies (I know this has definitely been brought up before actually).
Pocket Space Theft: So I'm kind of interested in the pocket space, I'm almost certain these ideas have come up before but once again; pocketing Mami's Ribbon, Sending a clone into Mami's Pocket, Seeing what we can put into the pocket (can we grab stuff outside our control zone, do we need to touch it, etc.), storing enchanted items and Witch stuff.
Two Heads are Better than One: Make a second brain and see if it's capable of allowing multi-threading. Notably despite Sabrina's crazy good multi-tasking she can't focus on both making a Witch item and her surroundings at the same time properly. It'd be good if having a second mind could fix that, possibly just using a clone.
Sleep is for the weak: It seems that magical girl bodies need to sleep. On the other hand why do we need to stick to only having one body? I think the easiest way to get a second body is just to sever an arm, heal the arm back and then having the arm healed into a complete second body. Alternatively we can try to stick to enchanted/Witchy clone bodies. I think Homura for one would be quite interested in this idea. Having two bodies means you can swap between them and always have one active. (Something similar to this was mentioned fairly recently)
Cooking in Spaaaace: I'm pretty sure time isn't stopped in out pocket space. I'm kind of interested in just what cooking does in a void, what amazing new recipes can you develop? With our Grief control, pocket space and maybe some chibis we can reach new horizons in cuisine.
A Limo: Grab a bunch of Grief, make something that looks exactly like a limousine (maybe get some proper plates), make a driver out of grief, make cantilevers or whatever for sight. Proceed to be driven around by a Limo that you created out of thin air. Or maybe make an Aston Martin. Regardless we've gotta move around in style if we're gonna take Mami for a date right?
Multiple Mami: Have Mami copy our full size clone or maybe Sayaka's clone (use that magic control enhancer to speed things up). We now have multiple Mamis, we can spend time with Mami while she's in school. Huh Codependency, what's that?
Grief Masking: Almost forgot to add this. But while we can't remove the feeling of WITCH! from our Witchy constructs maybe we can mask it? Try making Grief radiate Happiness or unobtrusive or something. I know we've tried invisibility and that hasn't worked but maybe instead of trying to remove the WITCH we can try to just cover it up.
(I've got other ideas but I don't think there's any need to mention stuff like wanting to examine and make a familiar since I don't even have a new spin to put on that.)
Phew.. that was a lot of writing. I think I'll end it here for now. Thanks for reading.
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- Location
- Illinois
Everyone agrees this is a good idea, but it has not been as good an idea as, say, dealing with Hijiri, dealing with Rionna, keeping Mami in school, trying to resolve the issues surrounding Kyouko, training Sayaka, trying (and failing, but at least trying) to make Homura feel better about herself, keeping Sendai in order...
You get where this is going, I'm sure.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I... don't think that plan is likely to work.
I doubt Homu would feel jealous. :/ She doesn't see herself as human, much less worthy of Madoka.
And then contracting!
- Location
- Illinois
Listen, we have no shortage of ideas for how to use science to improve our abilities. There are two problems.
First, as I was just mentioning, there are other priorities.
The second is that if we start on the prospect of using Timestop to Do Things, we face consequences in two ways. The first is that Firn is unlikely to be terribly pleased with us being abusive in that manner. The second is that spending a ton of time in timestop "grinding" sounds like a great way to make the quest take twice as long to get anywhere.
People who are actually concerned about our prowess should advocate these things. The people who have noticed that we have not yet broken a sweat in combat, that we have never had cause to call on Homura Akemi, the Magical Girl whose power is to stop time for combat support... These people should not bother advocating these things.
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DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
And then contracting!
Kyubey: [pops up] you can help her if you make a contract Madoka!
Madoka: [smiles] Is that so?
Kyubey: [Nods] Yes~
Madoka: [sends the marshmallow Satan flying with a baseball bat while still smiling]
Everyone else: [Stares]
Madoka: [Goes back to hugging Homura]
Kyubey: I don't understand. [Is shot by Homura]
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Wearing grief armor to a meeting is a very good way to undermine the entire purpose of the meeting, unless your purpose is "make sure Sabrina gets into even more fights".
A lot of Sabrina's grief utilization is limited by the fact that it makes friendly contact with other magical girls dramatically more difficult.
A lot of Sabrina's grief utilization is limited by the fact that it makes friendly contact with other magical girls dramatically more difficult.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Actually now that I think about it, outside of the technical challenge of replacing grief seeds, Sabrina's major hurtles were always going to be social. Befriending Homura, mediating Homura and Mami (and Mami and Kyouko in the future). Since we can't power through social issues.
OK we could but it be against the character and voter preference.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
The Grief Fog does cover for this, to be honest. Things don't move in our range if we don't want them to, and armoring is basically a subset of that.
Enchanted Grief does indeed stay together outside our range.
There's a few things that have been in the to do list for a while, related to experimenting in timestop/with Homura:
One is indeed being aware as a Soul Gem, since that's one 'normal' weakness we haven't covered.
Others are (finally) doing the 'experiment' to let lots of Grief out of our range at once, which Homu might still wanting on us about; de-Witching Science, trying to communicate with Aurora, using speckled enchantments to make contact without getting mindblasted with despair this time.
I mentioned it recently, but I would've liked to have actually tried before, whether we can connect to timestop through Grief, since that could come useful right now; if we knew that worked, we could surely, if needed, get a hold of Homura at the edge of our range (the further she stays from Riona, the better), have her engage timestop and freely communicate all we need with Mami and Homura.
Or if necessary, gank Riona.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Why make a Grief Oriko when we can send the real thing into the line of fire?
I mean, more seriously, the idea behind making a lie detector is, ultimately, to help with social. It just hasn't taken off yet.
Other than that... there's ways to improve our social score, magical and not, but trying to magically win it sounds like... cheating and maybe unreliable?
I mean, beyond the fact that cheating is practically our second name, magic and enchantment boosters didn't let us win at magic and enchantment forever - they just boosted those things. Same idea is with social, maybe working out by Firn giving us more hints and nudges in the right direction?Why make a Grief Oriko when we can send the real thing into the line of fire?
I mean, more seriously, the idea behind making a lie detector is, ultimately, to help with social. It just hasn't taken off yet.
Other than that... there's ways to improve our social score, magical and not, but trying to magically win it sounds like... cheating and maybe unreliable?
- Location
- Illinois
It would be a hilariously good idea if it worked. It sounds too ridiculous to be allowed imo.