Vote Tally
Adhoc vote count started by AuraTwilight on Aug 2, 2018 at 4:34 PM, finished with 352 posts and 25 votes.

  • [X] Reaction: Disappointment.
    -[X] Calm down.
    -[X] Offer cleansing and cleanse yourself.
    [X] Look Riona in the eyes. Override interruptions.
    -[X] Put your cards on the table. Your goals are:
    --[X] To free Magical Girls from the need for Seeds and territory; to allow them to have normal lives.
    --[X] To reverse Witchification.
    -[X] Nadia thinks we're crazy for wanting this, but both she and Kyuubey confirmed our power works. We can do this.
    [X] Ask Riona:
    -[X] Whether she can help with any of that.
    -[X] What does she want?
    [x] Keep Rionna talking.
    -[x] Flat out tell her that you want her help with dewitching, and that you're offering her the cleansing she wants. Why is she so willing to leave?
    [x] ABSOLUTELY DO NOT LET RIONNA NOTICE THIS, KEEP YOUR EMOTIONAL REACTION TO THIS MUTED:
    -[x] Calmly message Mami with grief, requesting that she not react and contact Homura for timestop, please.
    --[x] You need to discuss what Rionna has said with Mami, Homura, and Sayaka to decide what to do. You won't commit to any action without that discussion first.
    ---[x] Keep calm, do not commit to hostile action against Rionna in your mind.
    [x] You flew half way around the world to find a real Grief cleanser, and you're just going to leave? No. You came here looking for something. Well, so am I. Let's deal.
    [x] I'm trying to figure out how to turn a witch back into a person. The Clear Seed is the first step. They have thousands of times the capacity of regular Grief Seeds. One of these can keep a magical girl clean for centuries. And eventually we hope to enchant something that will do the job without needing souls at all. No more witchouts. No more used Seeds going into Kyubey's back for him to do god-knows-what to. No more need for girls to put themselves through this hell of hunting and fighting to survive. We can all just live like real people.
    [x] When we no longer need Seeds to survive, we can start helping them, too. We've already gotten some small results from injecting positive emotions into the Clear Seed. Your soul powers might be the key to making this back into a Soul Gem.
    [x] You came here looking for a charlatan, a dragon to slay, but I'm not your enemy. I want to help people. Ask Nadia Bennouna, she'll confirm that I'm for real.
    [x] You fought the false Grief Cleansers because they were witching girls out. We don't want anyone to witchout either. We can make a world where no one does, ever again.
    [x] Please. Help us.
    [X] Sigh, relax your visible tension, maybe slump a little bit.
    -[X] "You're not very easy to work with."
    [X] Explain and demonstrate your power
    -[X] Pull grief from your soul gem, float it around, make a few shapes. Perhaps a flute that starts softly playing music?
    -[X] Pull a little bit of grief from a grief seed, just to prove its possible
    --[X] Explain that floating grief is easy to manage, especially given use of a 4th dimension of space. If the cloud ever gets to be a bit too much you can just shove it down Kyubey's backhole. We can demonstrate this afterwards if she'd like.
    [X] After power explanation, move on to explaining your goals.
    -[X] Emphasize your desire for magical girls around the world to be able to live normal lives
    --[X] Ultimately, you want to break Kyubey's wretched system of grief and suffering, and replace it with something better
    ---[X] Some enchanted artefact that can absorb grief, or the proliferation of clear seeds or something that'll ensure magical girls can live long and peaceful lives, witches can be slowly but surely removed as a threat, and maybe Kyubey can even still accumulate grief for his anti-entropy efforts.
    [X] Now Riona knows what you can do and what your goals are. What's her place going to be in things?
    -[X] She can choose to help Sabrina with her powers, with her experience and very different perspective
    -[X] She can choose to go home in peace and deal with her own shit for however long it takes for Sabrina to fix things and bring infinite cleansings all the way to Ireland
    -[X] She can, for whatever reason, oppose this. Preferably with logical argument rather than sudden hostilities. Maaaybe don't mention this? Let it go unsaid unless she comments.
    --[X] Whatever her immediate choices, know that enslaved and possibly suffering shades of the dead won't be tolerated forever. That kind of shit belongs in Kyubey's system, not ours.
    [X] Discretely call Mami for an emergency timestop meeting with her, Homura and Sayaka
    -[X] Get them up to date with the meering with Riona.
    -[X] Discuss the next course of action
    [X] You don't care, do you?
    [X] Gem her if the answer is no.
    [x] Why?
    [X]You want my power that badly? Do you have any power copiers you can try to get mine? The ones I've met can't do it. I could use an insurance policy.
 

Sabrina's certainties as spelled out by Firn aren't relevant to Sabrina's decision making in a Sabrina quest.

No wait, that's fucking stupid, especially when half of this argument is about people trying to act in character for Sabrina and what her fucking morality sho

I'm like, 90% sure that that was a reaction created by you and people like you being so very vocal about your position.

You made assumptions, the character reflected those assumptions, and now you're basically pointing at your own thoughts being reflected as proof that you're right.
 
I'm like, 90% sure that that was a reaction created by you and people like you being so very vocal about your position.

You made assumptions, the character reflected those assumptions, and now you're basically pointing at your own thoughts being reflected as proof that you're right.

So much this, pretty much all of Sabrina's 'she's a monster' thoughts are basically ripped from stuff stated in the thread. The thread is literally sabrina's Thoughts. Do the math.
 
Staff Notice: Remain civil.
Which is where we get back to "I'm not going to condemn her for using the only tools available to her to try to carve a little peace into the world"

Not only are these shades her security, we don't actually have a better solution

I'm not condemning her for that. I'm condemning her for not caring and refusing to change in the face of having new options.

Including in the end, the shades.

Slavery doesn't become okay just because it ends.

Not necessarily in this timeline? Madoka isn't a god yet, and may well never become one as things are going.

No, there's an actual afterlife that even Muggles go to, in the Witch universe, as confirmed by various side materials, including Oriko Magica and Kazumi Magica.

I'm like, 90% sure that that was a reaction created by you and people like you being so very vocal about your position.

You made assumptions, the character reflected those assumptions, and now you're basically pointing at your own thoughts being reflected as proof that you're right.

Yea, well, it's part of Sabrina's character now. And that's also not a counter, because Sabrina's thoughts are unanimous that this is slavery and abominable, the argument in her mind is what to do about it. Also it's been part of Sabrina's character the whole fucking thread not to tolerate shit like this, it's part of why we even made our wish. So fuck off with this.
 
Rionna says that she MIGHT have shaded good people, and it seems to me like she's trying to get a rise out of us. It implies that she also might NOT have done so, which seems to go ignored.
 
Not only are these shades her security, we don't actually have a better solution
The fuck are you smoking? We have fucking grief control! We can cleanse infinitely! Sayaka can copy powers! Homura can stop time! We absolutely do better than she does in a fight. Not even a question. Walpurgisnacht would swat Riona like a bug. All Riona has to do is ask us to pick up her apartment or house and move it to Mitakihara. We are literally setting up refugee camps in the nearby hotels. "Don't have a better solution", the fuck how?

And you can't even say she doesn't know all that, because the first words out of her mouth were "if I tried to take your soul I'd have a fight on my hands". And that's if she keeps attracting opponents, which she won't if she just moves here, does science, and takes it easy.
 
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Rionna says that she MIGHT have shaded good people, and it seems to me like she's trying to get a rise out of us. It implies that she also might NOT have done so, which seems to go ignored.

And she's also saying she'll fucking end us if we keep judging her or telling her what to do, which, combined with the above, means she soul-ganked other people who tried to moralize at her.
 
Staff Notice
Sabrina thinks Rionna is a slaver. That means what she ends up doing in regards to Rionna will be what she thinks is acceptable to do in regards to slavers.
YOU DID THAT

You and Aura refused to consider any possibility that this is anything other than morally reprehensible and must be stopped immediately no matter the cost

You do not get to rub that in my face and say "deal with it"
 
YOU DID THAT

You and Aura refused to consider any possibility that this is anything other than morally reprehensible and must be stopped immediately no matter the cost

You do not get to rub that in my face and say "deal with it"

Well, too fucking bad, though. it's in Sabrina's character forever now that she considers this to be slavery. What we do here now reflects how Sabrina responds to slavery, morally.

And it wasn't just the two of us, thanks. It was the majority of the thread, which is why it's Sabrina's thoughts.
 
It doesn't matter if they do or not, really. Are you morally okay with lobotomizing people? Sure, she might say she's mostly targeting criminals, but she is also confirming she soul-lobotomizes people who oppose her morally.

How the actual fuck can you defend that?

I just write it off as us being too blatant/her trying to goad us so she can get our power guilt free. Direct social didn't work, so time for risky violence or risky schemes.
 
I just write it off as us being too blatant/her trying to goad us so she can get our power guilt free. Direct social didn't work, so time for risky violence or risky schemes.

"This person is bragging about being a rapist/murderer and is laughing off having possibly victimized good people. But they're probably just trying to be edgy and get a rise out of us, we shouldn't do anything to stop it."
 
A thought: Someone mentioned that we need to get info - that we needed to get past this shell.
We have one topic we have been informed is a bad idea to ask about.
Rion^na's sister.

As we seem to be burning down everything anyhow, perhaps a comment about that might shed some additional light?
 
Yea, well, it's part of Sabrina's character now. And that's also not a counter, because Sabrina's thoughts are unanimous that this is slavery and abominable, the argument in her mind is what to do about it. Also it's been part of Sabrina's character the whole fucking thread not to tolerate shit like this, it's part of why we even made our wish. So fuck off with this.
PANIC
PANIC
PANIC
Don't panic
PANIC
Don't panic
PANIC
PANIC
*Sabrina Panics*

"HA! I WAS RIGHT! WE SHOULD PANIC! PAAAAAANIIIIIIIIIIC!"



No. You're loud, doesn't make you right, don't pretend like it does.

It doesn't make you wrong, but that's what we're trying to discuss isn't it? "So fuck off with this" yourself.
 
Huh. I was thinking
Is it possible for Sabrina to have a bipolar disorder as a consequence of her supposedly being composed of multiple people in-story and actually composed of many players irl?

If so, we are well on our way to filling out the conditions. :V

Nah, probably not. If nothing else, Sabrina is cohesive and consistent in narration.
 
PANIC
PANIC
PANIC
Don't panic
PANIC
Don't panic
PANIC
PANIC
*Sabrina Panics*

"HA! I WAS RIGHT! WE SHOULD PANIC! PAAAAAANIIIIIIIIIIC!"



No. You're loud, doesn't make you right, don't pretend like it does.

It doesn't make you wrong, but that's what we're trying to discuss isn't it? "So fuck off with this" yourself.

It wasn't just two people being loud. Firn isn't that fucking lazy or negligent. It was a loud majority that it was abominable. Most people agreed on that. What was divisive was how to handle and respond to it, with a lot of the people saying this is unacceptable also being in the crowd of "Let's give her a chance to redeem herself."

Hell, fuck, I WAS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE. I voted to let her have a chance to explain herself or listen to reason and change her actions, but she's refusing to allow us to judge her, moralize her, or tell her what to do, and she's threatening us with lethal violence if we keep trying to change her mind. We gave her a chance, this is her response. What the hell else would you have us do?

Considering I'm encouraging risky schemes here to stop it... really?

I'm just saying I'm not at all sympathetic to "Riona's probably trolling" because if we're wrong that's monstrously catastrophically a failure.
 
We have three people who managed to insert a new facet into Sabrina's character and are now gloating about it

Fuck this
 
@Onmur asked me to put together a composite of a number of the "social Rionna" votes, and this is my good faith best attempt at doing that.

Note that I'm not actually voting for it - my vote remains unchanged. Aspiring to Madokami's ideas of universal forgiveness is all well and good, but we aren't actually omnipotent. Being willing to take megucas beyond a certain point out is going to simplify a number of things - especially Iowa - immensely.


[ ] Reaction: Disappointment.
-[ ] Calm down.
-[ ] Offer cleansing and cleanse yourself.

[ ] Look Riona in the eyes. Override interruptions.
-[ ] Put your cards on the table. Your goals are:
--[ ] To free Magical Girls from the need for Seeds and territory; to allow them to have normal lives.
--[ ] And then, once hunting isn't necessary, to help the Seeds themselves. (Pull out Aurora). One day, to turn a Seed back into a person.
---[ ] You want this world to be better. And you can do it. She can ask Nadia, she can ask fucking Kyuubey, she can test your power as much as she wants. It's the real deal.


[ ] You don't know her. You don't know why she does what she does, you don't know what she wants. But you don't believe for a second she came half-way around the world just to leave empty handed.
-[ ] If she wants to help with any of your goals, you can make a deal. You're not stupid, you don't expect her to trust you on faith, and you don't expect her to do it for free.
--[ ] But if she's planning to attack you or your friends, if she thinks being kind makes you weak, if she forces your hand... You'll do what it takes.
 
We have three people who managed to insert a new facet into Sabrina's character and are now gloating about it

Fuck this

This is not a new fucking facet to Sabrina's character. Are you new or something? Did you miss every goddamn vote in this thread that established Sabrina as hating the everloving motherfucking shit out of Kyubey for creating a horrendous institution based around enslaving little girls?

Sabrina wants to save people and fix shit she sees as wrong. She's not content with merely saving Magical Girls from 'despair and suffering', she wants them to be FREE to live normal lives. She wants them to be entirely liberated from Kyubey's shackles to live their lives however they wish as long as they do so ethically. She is the embodiment of Madoka's desire for everything to be fixed.

Do you think Madoka fucking Kaname would be standing for what Riona's doing? Are you fucking kidding me?
 
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