Remove ads

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Reader mode
Redshirt Army said:
Sure we do. She's witchbombed, for one. :V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

...That... doesn't matter. You can be Witchbombed and be trying to do the "Take out Sabrina while retaining your reputation because fuck griefbenders they're all frauds" gambit.

Jonen C said:
If you want to get technical with etymology flipping a switch is manipulation.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I don't think "Being dishonest/lying to get a specific reaction" is a particularly uncharitable claim of being manipulative.
 
Edit by the below I mean it sounds like circular logic

"I don't start fights."

"You mean you don't throw the first punch."

"No punch no fight."

"There wouldn't be any punching if you weren't being so aggressively trying to provoke one."

"Because I don't start fights."
 
AuraTwilight said:
That... doesn't matter. You can be Witchbombed and be trying to do the "Take out Sabrina while retaining your reputation because fuck griefbenders they're all frauds" gambit.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I was referring to the "secretly working for QB" thing, hence the :V.

And she could just... y'know... lie. She doesn't have to let us actually get the first shot in to be able to claim that we attacked her first.
 
Redshirt Army said:
I was referring to the "secretly working for QB" thing, hence the :V.

And she could just... y'know... lie. She doesn't have to let us actually get the first shot in to be able to claim that we attacked her first.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Except for herself, depending on how charitable you're being. Most charitable explanation I've got is shes baiting us to get our power guilt-free.

Hence I want to bait her with that. A chance at our power guilt-free.
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Aug 2, 2018 at 3:51 PM, finished with 142708 posts and 25 votes.
  • [X] Reaction: Disappointment.
    -[X] Calm down.
    -[X] Offer cleansing and cleanse yourself.
    [X] Look Riona in the eyes. Override interruptions.
    -[X] Put your cards on the table. Your goals are:
    --[X] To free Magical Girls from the need for Seeds and territory; to allow them to have normal lives.
    --[X] To reverse Witchification.
    -[X] Nadia thinks we're crazy for wanting this, but both she and Kyuubey confirmed our power works. We cando this.
    [X] Ask Riona:
    -[X] Whether she can help with any of that.
    -[X] What does she want?
    [x] Keep Rionna talking.
    -[x] Flat out tell her that you want her help with dewitching, and that you're offering her the cleansing she wants. Why is she so willing to leave?
    [x] ABSOLUTELY DO NOT LET RIONNA NOTICE THIS, KEEP YOUR EMOTIONAL REACTION TO THIS MUTED:
    -[x] Calmly message Mami with grief, requesting that she not react and contact Homura for timestop, please.
    --[x] You need to discuss what Rionna has said with Mami, Homura, and Sayaka to decide what to do. You won't commit to any action without that discussion first.
    ---[x] Keep calm, do not commit to hostile action against Rionna in your mind.
    [x] You flew half way around the world to find a real Grief cleanser, and you're just going to leave? No. You came here looking for something. Well, so am I. Let's deal.
    [x] I'm trying to figure out how to turn a witch back into a person. The Clear Seed is the first step. They have thousands of times the capacity of regular Grief Seeds. One of these can keep a magical girl clean for centuries. And eventually we hope to enchant something that will do the job without needing souls at all. No more witchouts. No more used Seeds going into Kyubey's back for him to do god-knows-what to. No more need for girls to put themselves through this hell of hunting and fighting to survive. We can all just live like real people.
    [x] When we no longer need Seeds to survive, we can start helping them, too. We've already gotten some small results from injecting positive emotions into the Clear Seed. Your soul powers might be the key to making this back into a Soul Gem.
    [x] You came here looking for a charlatan, a dragon to slay, but I'm not your enemy. I want to help people. Ask Nadia Bennouna, she'll confirm that I'm for real.
    [x] You fought the false Grief Cleansers because they were witching girls out. We don't want anyone to witchout either. We can make a world where no one does, ever again.
    [x] Please. Help us.
    [X] Sigh, relax your visible tension, maybe slump a little bit.
    -[X] "You're not very easy to work with."
    [X] Explain and demonstrate your power
    -[X] Pull grief from your soul gem, float it around, make a few shapes. Perhaps a flute that starts softly playing music?
    -[X] Pull a little bit of grief from a grief seed, just to prove its possible
    --[X] Explain that floating grief is easy to manage, especially given use of a 4th dimension of space. If the cloud ever gets to be a bit too much you can just shove it down Kyubey's backhole. We can demonstrate this afterwards if she'd like.
    [X] After power explanation, move on to explaining your goals.
    -[X] Emphasize your desire for magical girls around the world to be able to live normal lives
    --[X] Ultimately, you want to break Kyubey's wretched system of grief and suffering, and replace it with something better
    ---[X] Some enchanted artefact that can absorb grief, or the proliferation of clear seeds or something that'll ensure magical girls can live long and peaceful lives, witches can be slowly but surely removed as a threat, and maybe Kyubey can even still accumulate grief for his anti-entropy efforts.
    [X] Now Riona knows what you can do and what your goals are. What's her place going to be in things?
    -[X] She can choose to help Sabrina with her powers, with her experience and very different perspective
    -[X] She can choose to go home in peace and deal with her own shit for however long it takes for Sabrina to fix things and bring infinite cleansings all the way to Ireland
    -[X] She can, for whatever reason, oppose this. Preferably with logical argument rather than sudden hostilities. Maaaybe don't mention this? Let it go unsaid unless she comments.
    --[X] Whatever her immediate choices, know that enslaved and possibly suffering shades of the dead won't be tolerated forever. That kind of shit belongs in Kyubey's system, not ours.
    [X] Discretely call Mami for an emergency timestop meeting with her, Homura and Sayaka
    -[X] Get them up to date with the meering with Riona.
    -[X] Discuss the next course of action
    [X] You don't care, do you?
    [X] Gem her if the answer is no.
    [x] Why?
    [X]You want my power that badly? Do you have any power copiers you can try to get mine? The ones I've met can't do it. I could use an insurance policy.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
TJSomething said:
Then, I'm now thinking that "maybe good people" are probably mostly reasonable people who are disgusted by her actions and try to kill her.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Normally I would say this as an edit but this thread is too dang fast.

But my current evaluation of her headstate is, "I give justice by stopping those fake grief controllers. Sometimes weak-willed girls and ordinary humans try to stop me. They don't know that sometimes that you need to do bad things to make the world a better place. I doubt this girl has what it takes."

Maybe that's a little optimistic, but I think that's a internally consistent narrative that can be inferred from the text.

Jonen C said:
If you want to get technical with etymology flipping a switch is manipulation.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The difference between persuasion and manipulation is if you are trying to induce a belief or state of mind in bad faith (e.g. Kyuubey). I think that it's possible that she's speaking in bad faith, or she could just suck at talking. It's hard to tell.
 
Last edited:
[] If Riona keeps being contrary, point it out. She won't get anything by walking up and making demands, while refusing to even talk about considering what it'd take for us to agree with her.

[] Ask Riona what she would do with infinite cleansing.
 
Godwinson said:
She's putting those grief controllers powers to the same use as their original owners.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So here's something I'm stuck on. If we accept this premise, why is she here? Why is it worth it for her to fly halfway across the world chasing the rumor of a grief controller? If she's got enough grief controllers already to manage her grief drain, and she doesn't have any moral objections to their activities, what's so all-fired important about one more?
 
Jonen C said:
Aka why moderation is difficult.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Let's not go down that rabbit hole.

Before you know it, we'll be the council debating whether this member of Suspiciously Meguca has earned herself enough infraction points in order to be banhammered from this reality and whether she has any redeeming qualities that could enable us to show leniency.

Wait a second, that's exactly what we've been doing. :V

[Q] Ask Firn to postpone the update until the new Council is elected.
-[Q] Petition them to consider a case of one Riona Mag Aoidh.
 
Onmur said:
[] If Riona keeps being contrary, point it out. She won't get anything by walking up and making demands, while refusing to even talk about considering what it'd take for us to agree with her.

[] Ask Riona what she would do with infinite cleansing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I like the second. Kinda meh about the first. I like the foundation, bit delivery is crap. We've only been talking for like 5 minutes, and most of that was Sabrina being judgemental. Bit early to get snippy about not talking
 
rikalous said:
So here's something I'm stuck on. If we accept this premise, why is she here? Why is it worth it for her to fly halfway across the world chasing the rumor of a grief controller? If she's got enough grief controllers already to manage her grief drain, and she doesn't have any moral objections to their activities, what's so all-fired important about one more?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

"It's fine if I'm doing it because I'm hunting all the bad grief controllers (which includes Sabrina in her worldview) and I'm only unloading grief into these Shades that composes of bad people who deserve it."
 
Aranfan said:
I am the only one pushing for killing her. And I'm on record being fine with gemming her instead.

Seriously, it's only me.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Gemming her is basically the same as killing her since there would never be any reasonable way to un-gem her safely afterwards. It's pretty much just a death sentence, stop trying to pretend like 'settling for gemming' is any better than just straight up murder.

Aranfan said:
Letting her go to continue slaving is out of character.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We still have no actual confirmation that this qualifies entirely as slavery, please stop using that word. It's deliberately inflammatory and manipulative of the actual facts we have. Calm down.

rikalous said:
So here's something I'm stuck on. If we accept this premise, why is she here? Why is it worth it for her to fly halfway across the world chasing the rumor of a grief controller? If she's got enough grief controllers already to manage her grief drain, and she doesn't have any moral objections to their activities, what's so all-fired important about one more?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Uh, I'm pretty sure she does have objections to their activities? She's heavily implied that one of her things is that she goes around hunting down grief controllers as charlatans who cause witchouts.

She came here because she presumed we were just another villain, and she tries to deal with villains specifically of the grief controlling nature.

Asking why she's here is like asking why a paladin is investigating an area where a demon-like entity was seen. They came to hunt the demon. Now that it turns out there's no actual Demon, just someone with demon-like powers, there's nothing to really do unless said demon-alike turns out to be villainous, and so far we haven't done anything to suggest to her that we are a villain yet.

It's really not that hard to understand...
 
Spectral Waltz said:
Gemming her is basically the same as killing her since there would never be any reasonable way to un-gem her safely afterwards. It's pretty much just a death sentence, stop trying to pretend like 'settling for gemming' is any better than just straight up murder.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We have access to antimagic. We could, hypothetically, work toward just depowering her, or geasing her with a Geas-guca.

We still have no actual confirmation that this qualifies entirely as slavery, please stop using that word. It's deliberately inflammatory and manipulative of the actual facts we have. Calm down.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Sabrina said:
She's so callous about it. Not even flippant, simply callous and dismissive- don't worry about it, she says. If that's the attitude she treats the entire thing with, how can you possibly trust that she did only use her powers on 'bad' people? She used it on non-magical people.

Governments don't treat the death penalty as lightly as she does, let alone Soul-lobotomies.

Do you take her down? It's not going to be an easy thing to do. She takes people's Souls. Can you afford not to do something right here, right now? You could-

You could grab her Gem. She can't summon her shades inside the sphere, so keep her here. Eject her body. She could still act as a Gem, perhaps the most likely of any magical girl you've ever met to be able to do so. Get Mami to summon Homura, because timestop should answer any problems until you can contain her.

And- she has shades guarding her territory. That's what she implied. Can you assume they're not on dead man's switches? You'll need to figure out how to handle that. Kirika's antimagic, maybe. You'd have to convince Homura perhaps, or-

You can't negotiate with her if you open hostilities, but you don't-

She rips people's Souls out and enslaves them. You can't work with someone who does that, but you don't-
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You're wrong.

Uh, I'm pretty sure she does have objections to their activities? She's heavily implied that one of her things is that she goes around hunting down grief controllers as charlatans who cause witchouts.

She came here because she presumed we were just another villain, and she tries to deal with villains specifically of the grief controlling nature.

Asking why she's here is like asking why a paladin is investigating an area where a demon-like entity was seen. They came to hunt the demon. Now that it turns out there's no actual Demon, just someone with demon-like powers, there's nothing to really do unless said demon-alike turns out to be villainous, and so far we haven't done anything to suggest to her that we are a villain yet.

It's really not that hard to understand...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Riona's own damn motherfucking word. said:
"Whisht," Rionna snaps, and smirks. It's not a nice smirk. "I rip people's Souls out, screaming and kicking. It's not pretty and it's not nice. Who knows, maybe I've done it to some 'good people'. Wouldn't know for sure, I wouldn't. But here's how it is: You don't tell me how to do things, and I don't finish a fight neither of us want."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

She does not exclusively hunt grief-controllers and villains. She's done it to people who might be good people. She's done it to muggles. She's implied in this update she'll do it to anyone who judges her or tries to stop her.

Fuck this argument, it's objectively bullshit. You're arguing against Sabrina's canon characterization and Firn's own goddamn word.
 
Spectral Waltz said:
Uh, I'm pretty sure she does have objections to their activities? She's heavily implied that one of her things is that she goes around hunting down grief controllers as charlatans who cause witchouts.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Homes I was quoting Godwinson to question their assertion that Rionnnnnna is actually super evil. You're attacking the opposite of my position. :p
AuraTwilight said:
You're wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You're quoting Sabrina's conjectures to prove that Sabrina's conjectures are correct, dude. Those conjectures might well be correct, the shades might contain people in a constant state of "I have no mouth and I must scream." Or they might contain magic AI incapable of feeling pain or emotions. At this point, we don't know for certain and thus neither does Sabrina, whatever she speculates in story posts.
 
AuraTwilight said:
We have access to antimagic. We could, hypothetically, work toward just depowering her, or geasing her with a Geas-guca.





You're wrong.





She does not exclusively hunt grief-controllers and villains. She's done it to people who might be good people. She's done it to muggles. She's implied in this update she'll do it to anyone who judges her or tries to stop her.

Fuck this argument, it's objectively bullshit. You're arguing against Sabrina's canon characterization and Firn's own goddamn word.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If a normal person intentionally caused a magical girl to witch by some method X do they deserve death? You can't exactly take that to court because KB. You keep talking about muggles like they're special when they are capable of heinous things too.
 
rikalous said:
You're quoting Sabrina's conjectures to prove that Sabrina's conjectures are correct, dude. Those conjectures might well be correct, the shades might contain people in a constant state of "I have no mouth and I must scream." Or they might contain magic AI incapable of feeling pain or emotions. At this point, we don't know for certain and thus neither does Sabrina, whatever she speculates in story posts.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Sabrina's certainties as spelled out by Firn aren't relevant to Sabrina's decision making in a Sabrina quest.

No wait, that's fucking stupid, especially when half of this argument is about people trying to act in character for Sabrina and what her fucking morality should be.

Conjured Blade said:
If a normal person intentionally caused a magical girl to witch by some method X do they deserve death? You can't exactly take that to court because KB. You keep talking about muggles like they're special when they are capable of heinous things too.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The problem is Riona is unique in our ability to stop, detain, restrict, or undo what she's fucking doing.

And the point of bringing up Muggles is that enslaving their souls is entirely unjustifiable; Riona can just kill people like any other edgy hard choice meguca, and muggles have no unique superpowers that can be justified as 'self defense/utility to help minimize my need to commit more atrocities.'
 
Your entire argument is thst the state of wraithhood is worse than death

Maybe two people agree with you on this

This is going nowhere very quickly
 
kinigget said:
Your entire argument is thst the state of wraithhood is worse than death

Maybe two people agree with you on this

This is going nowhere very quickly
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It IS worse than death. A fairly pleasant afterlife that everyone goes to is fucking canon in PMMM. We are friends with a girl who can summon the ghost of her dead fucking cat as her wish magic.
 
Which is where we get back to "I'm not going to condemn her for using the only tools available to her to try to carve a little peace into the world"

Not only are these shades her security, we don't actually have a better solution
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top