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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Gnarker said:
[ ] *Set down somewhere. This is a serious talk, we should give it our full attention* Well. It's complicated. Straight to the point? We actually talked about that just now. I definitely would like to tell you all of them, not least because you could help with some of them. Just, with how vulnerable Magical Girls are to emotional trauma, you have to realize how incredibly dangerous those secrets are. I'm confident that you could handle them despite how painful they are, but, say, Mami? I've asked her, and she's happier not knowing, not least because some of those secrets could literally kill her. And no offense, but you're not the most subtle person. So you tell me: Could you keep a secret, keep yourself from even alluding to it in a way someone could base a guess on, even if it's an incredibly huge and important and painful one, even from your closest friends? From Madoka? Please think carefully before you answer me.

Thoughts?
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I find it fine in general. The only thing I'd think of adding is not to ask for an answer immediately but wait until classes is over so we can drag the real Sayakirby to some privacy (because, how good are Sabrina's privacy spheres actually if the clone inside can communicate with the real body outside?)
 
Witchbomb-wise I think my position in the wake of this update still remains as it has ever been: Tell her the risks and challenges and let her make the descision. (IE: This kind of secret could very literally kill people, and so on.)

Inclined to angle it something like "In a perfect world, everyone should know. In practice? If you tell the wrong people, they could very well die because of it."

However, due to how Sayaka asked, I think there's still other potentially important topics here: She's asking in the context of our secrets. As a result, it may be worth broaching supposition on our own nature, or lack of knowledge thereof.

I'm also curious as to whether or not it's time to raise that we also have questions about Sayaka. If not necessarily to fully discuss them, since we're not in proper place for sitting down in a privacy field. (Which kinda also applies to the above.)
 
If we want to make a big impact on what Sayaka will think of the nebulous infohazard, we could start by pointing at how Mami was after we combobombed her, explain how that could've gone had we not stuck with her despite her trying to push away, and explain how the other infobomb is so much worse, Mami would literally die after finding out, at least if she didn't have Sabrina.

Make it so the first thing Sayaka knows about it is that she could literally kill meguca by spreading the word?
 
Firnagzen said:
"I've got some thoughts about why she actually has the power for all this this time round, but that's a discussion for another time, and... you don't mean her power, do you?"
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Sabrina: I think this Sayaka is an angel
Homura: What
Sabrina: Sent by Madoka as a goddess to help ensure the cycle continues. She's like archer from fate stay night.
Homura:.... what.

Firnagzen said:
"And I get the impression they're kind of dangerous secrets," Sayaka says, sounding like she's working through some thoughts as she speaks.
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Sabrina: It's worse then you know
Sayaka: It usually is.

I think we should tell her, though we need to be VERY clear how dangerous these secerts are.


- People will die if these are told to the wrong people, or told in the wrong way. We are not using methaphor here, these are secerts that will directly get magical girls killed by their very reaction to the information if divulged improperly.

This is information is more hazardous then breaking the nature of QB and soul gems and that damn near ended with Mami's death even with our presence. This information is worse by several orders of magnitude. Knowing this may very well give you the abilty to decide if a magical girls lives or dies by simply deciding if and how you tell them this secert.
 
Filraen said:
I find it fine in general. The only thing I'd think of adding is not to ask for an answer immediately but wait until classes is over so we can drag the real Sayakirby to some privacy (because, how good are Sabrina's privacy spheres actually if the clone inside can communicate with the real body outside?)
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If Homura brings Sayaka into timestop while we're touching her clone, would that bring us into timestop?
 
DB_Explorer said:
Sabrina: I think this Sayaka is an angel
Homura: What
Sabrina: Sent by Madoka as a goddess to help ensure the cycle continues. She's like archer from fate stay night.
Homura:.... what.
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Sabrina: "And you're Kiritsugu."
Homura: "..."
Sabrina: "Which makes you family!"
Homura:



DB_Explorer said:
Sabrina: It's worse then you know
Sayaka: It usually is.

I think we should tell her, though we need to be VERY clear how dangerous these secerts are.


- People will die if these are told to the wrong people, or told in the wrong way. We are not using methaphor here, these are secerts that will directly get magical girls killed by their very reaction to the information if divulged improperly.

This is information is more hazardous then breaking the nature of QB and soul gems and that damn near ended with Mami's death even with our presence. This information is worse by several orders of magnitude. Knowing this may very well give you the abilty to decide if a magical girls lives or dies by simply deciding if and how you tell them this secert.
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I'm thinking along these lines. With Sayaka, it's a matter of making the right first impression.

So... "Sayaka, I'm giving you the power to kill my gf" is a pretty strong first impression.
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Jun 9, 2018 at 7:21 PM, finished with 139166 posts and 24 votes.
  • [X] There is something you should discuss, yes. Fair warning: It's gonna be heavy.
    -[X] Stop searching. Sit down. Use Grief Fog to make sure KB isn't around. Full serious mode.
    [X] There is a secret. It's an infohazard. It remains a secret to puella society, because almost every magical girl who learns it shortly thereafter dies from their soul filling with despair. It's that bad.
    -[x] If you share this with Sayaka, you're putting Mami's life in her hands. It would almost certainly kill her.
    [X] Learning this will affect Sayaka:
    -[X] It will change her outlook in life, like it changed Homura's and Niko's.
    -[X] She would need to keep it secret 24/7, never let it slip in anger, not talk about it with anyone, and generally do everything she can to not let it get out. Or else many people, including her friends, could die.
    [X] So it's not about whether she should know, but rather about whether she wants to risk knowing.
    -[X] You told Mami there was a secret, and Niko told Kazumi. They both decided to not know.
    -[X] Both Homura and you are scared of sharing even this much, but you are making her the same offer.
    -[X] Ask her to not decide just yet. Think about it.
    [X] Reassure Sayaka.
    -[X] If she decides to know, you'll trust her. You'll get her main body in a Privacy Sphere or timestop and tell her everything.
    -[X] She doesn't have to know. If she decides not to, you won't think any less of her.
    -[X] Witch Hunt? Cool down hugs?
    [X] Cut this vote at any time Author pleases.
    [X] Funny she should ask. We just asked Homura about sharing with her.
    [X] Stop searching. This is more important. Make sure KB isn't around.
    [X] Sayaka should make sure her other self doesn't telegraph anything. You're in no hurry, and you can pause at any time that's necessary.
    -[X] Nothing you're going to discuss here gets related to anyone, which also means no telepathy. You'll elaborate as you go.
    [X] Broadly explain the concept of an infohazard. It's a little bit like Heresy, except a lot worse.
    [X] Mami and, you're told, six of seven Pleiades have declined this information.
    -[X] This discussion is about whether Sayaka wants this information, not whether she should be told it. And you're going to make her take until at least tomorrow to think about it.
    [X] Hammer on these lines at length and in variation until Sayaka is appropriately cognizant:
    -[X] Infohazards are, obviously, a responsibility. You don't talk about them, slip up with them, confide in your best friend about them: that kills people. That is a permanent burden, and it's not a fun one: it's working a job 24/7. No alcohol.
    -[X] Infohazards hurt. She's low risk and in special circumstances: it'd probably only permanently change her outlook on life for the worse. Normal consequences of exposure include psychoses, insanity, horrible death, sudden homicidal actions: no matter what, it will make her world a darker place.
    [X] Stress that she doesn't need this information to be incredibly helpful: also stress that you're not just saying this to try to dissuade her. There are upsides and downsides to both options, but it's an infohazard: you can't truly discuss the upsides to knowing without exposing her. You will say that none of them are fun... But if there weren't significant benefits you'd just suppress this completely.
    [X] If she decides she wants to know, you'll explain everything and then you won't let her go anywhere alone for a short while -- probably buy her ice cream. Basic observation period that'll double as Q&A. Don't want her leaving and then going crazy.
    -[X] This will be a permanently standing offer. You should also note that there is some -- very small -- chance of exposure in the course of everyday life. If it happens, she'll know -- she should ask for help immediately.
    -[X] Hug the stuffing out of her. She's a good friend, has a great heart, and you're glad to have her on the team.
    [x] Funny you should ask. We were just discussing that.
    [x] Have Sayaka give us her full attention. This is Serious Business.
    [x] When we told Mami the truth about Soul Gems and how Kyubey was manipulating her, the emotional trauma almost killed her. And this secret is even worse.
    [x] We gave a Mami a choice whether or not to know this, and she chose not to. Which was a relief, because magical girls that learn this have been known to take their own life or go insane.
    [x] If we tell you this, you have to keep the secret. You can't tell your friends. You can't let it slip in a moment of anger. You can't even talk about it with other people in the know unless we take measures to ensure secrecy, like Homura's timestop or our privacy sphere.
    [x] With all that said, think about whether or not you really want to know this. We won't be able to tell you until after school when we can meet with your real body inside a privacy sphere. Use that time to think about whether or not this is a burden you want to put on yourself.
    [x] Funny, you and Homura were just talking about that.
    -[x] Homura thinks that telling Sayaka is too dangerous. She thinks it'll destroy Sayaka and that Sayaka will take everyone with her.
    -[x] You think that Sayaka's Wish to be Useful will give her the strength she needs.
    [x] Tell Sayaka to take a bathroom break or something.
    -[x] Bet her a bucket of ice cream that she has to claim food poisoning and take the rest of the day off.
    -[x] Implement privacy sphere if Sayaka thinks it'll work. If it'd cut her off, just take security measures - no coobs allowed.
    [x] Explain the stakes. Pull no punches.
    -[x] If Sayaka tells Mami, she'll probably try to commit suicide.
    -[x] If Sayaka tells Madoka, Makoda Wishes then commits suicide, Homura possibly kills Sayaka in grief-stricken revenge and then commits suicide, and then everyone probably dies.
    -[x] Sayaka will have to keep this from everyone, especially her friends. You, Homura, Oriko, Nadia, and Niko are it. She will have some of the same secrets that you've been laboring under so long. Can she handle that?
    -[x] Does Sayaka understand how serious this is?
    [x] Explain why you're taking this risk: It's worth it. Sayaka Wished to be useful. This is the best thing she could possibly do. The responsibility of holding this secret is what she wanted to bear.
    [x] Give Sayaka the last chance to back out, same offer you give everyone else.
    [x] Legion of the scarlet tabard
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Well, it's time to witchbomb Sayaka.

And yea, saying "If you tell Mami this she will 100% fucking die" is a good opener.
 
A first approach

[X] Sayaka: stop searching for witches. Give her your full attention, this a a serious talk.
-[X] Remember how we told you about our Soul Gems? This is worse.
-[X] In a perfect world everybody should know before contracting, but in reality magical girls can die or worse by learning it. Mami chose not to know, she may die if she knows.
-[X] So think long and hard, at least until we can go into a privacy sphere with your real body. And if you think you are ready and can take it, then ask and I'll tell you.
-[X] But in any case you must keep all of this a secret from Mami and Madoka, even this conversation.

[X] Resume searching for witches
 
Firnagzen said:
"Do I look like an orange brat of a ninja to you?" Sayaka asks.
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No, Sayaka-chan. Normally I'd peg you for a Sakura, but your Sharinganingan shenanigans place you squarely in the "brooding bishounen" territory. Or is it bishoujo?

... It would be an interesting time to find out Sayaclones are actually semi-independent. :V
 
Hrm. Thought for if we include other things Sayaka should know.

1. The best case scenario if Madoka contracts is that she becomes another self-sustaining magical girl. The worst case is Armageddon. It is not worth the risk.
2. Further details fall under HP Lovecraft grade dangerous knowledge. You might die from learning it. Mami would certainly die from learning it and does not currently want to know.
 
Conjured Blade said:
Hrm. Thought for if we include other things Sayaka should know.

1. The best case scenario if Madoka contracts is that she becomes another self-sustaining magical girl. The worst case is Armageddon. It is not worth the risk.
2. Further details fall under HP Lovecraft grade dangerous knowledge. You might die from learning it. Mami would certainly die from learning it and does not currently want to know.
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We straight up tell her, if we witchbomb her, that:

Madoka WILL wish to fix it, and either:
A) It works and Madoka dies in exchange, or
B) Madoka becomes a witch which kills everything on the planet.

"Well can't you just cleanse her?"
"It happens in seconds, Sayaka. I'm genuinely not sure I can fucking cleanse her fast enough."
 
[X] Sayaka: stop searching for witches. Give her your full attention, this a a serious talk.
-[X] Remember how we told you about our Soul Gems? This is worse.
-[X] In a perfect world everybody should know before contracting, but usually magical girls don't and this knowledge could kill them.
-[X] When I told Mami about our Soul Gems and Kyubey she was a wreck and she's still recovering from it. When I asked her about this she refused to know, and I agree: Mami isn't ready know and could very well die because of it.
-[X] So think long and hard, at least until we can go into a privacy sphere with your real body. And if you think you are ready and can take it, then ask and I'll tell you.
-[X] But in any case you must keep all of this a secret from Mami and Madoka, even this conversation.

--[X] If Sayaka asks about Madoka must be out of the loop, say that you can't tell her because that's Homura's secret to share

[X] Resume searching for witches


Because from Sayaka's PoV it doesn't make much sense to keep the witchbomb a secret from Madoka.
 
AuraTwilight said:
or B) Madoka becomes a witch which kills everything on the planet.
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Kriemhild Gretchen was a planet killer by timeline 4. Even assuming a linear expansion of potential, by now she'll be able to wipe out most of the solar system, at least.

Granted, from humanity's PoV it doesn't make much of a difference, so I'm just being pedantic.
 
Hmmm... my own take would be more like:

[X] Stop the search. Use Grief Fog to make sure no KB is skulking around.

[X] Full serious talk:
[X] Let Sayaka know about the existence of the Infohazard (Witchbomb).
-[X] First impression to give: How bad it is, and how much trust we'd be putting in Sayaka to let her know.
--[X] It's much worse than the truth about Soul Gems. She saw some of how that affected Mami.
--[X] Mami and many other Magical Girls would die if they found out.
--[X] Make sure that sinks in.
-[X] Let Sayaka know who's in the know: Homura, Niko, Nadia.
-[X] Explain the offer you made Mami, and Niko made Kazumi: Both Mami and Kazumi chose to not know.
-[X] Make the same offer to Sayaka, but ask her to think about it before deciding.

I think the first impression Sayaka gets of the Witchbomb is the most important bit. It shouldn't come off as 'there's this many people keeping this secret from you', or 'you really should have know about this before wishing'... it shouldn't risk coming off as something like that.

The first thing Sayaka must know about the Witchbomb is how dangerous it is.
 
A thought: ... I think we should not mention our expectations that Sayaka could help more if she found what this infohazard is.

It would put pressure on her to know in order to be useful, and I think this is something she has to decide for her own sake.
 
Conjured Blade said:
@Onmur

You forgot Oriko, Kirika, Anri, and the Fukushima group Leader if you wanted to add some of them.
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I don't think we know whether Yuki (Fukushima leader) is Witchbombed?

I guess... my mind omitted O&K there, because I feel like telling Sayaka that they know... might help piss her off? Something something?

I guess we should include them for completeness' sake. We are, after all, talking about revealing secrets. :/
 
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