Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Enchanting is nice and all, but it's also one more thing that Sayaka is massively behind in that she needs to work to catch up.
- Location
- Illinois
I mean we can leave it at cloning? Idunno. Enchanting is conveniently a field we can say "I'm shit at this lol" about.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
My worries with that plan of action is that even that feels a lot like telling her to train when she wants to be doing something. It feels like a better option to me to present her with a real problem we face and let ways to address it arise from conversation and planning.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We might be shit at it, but Mami is so good at it that when we asked Nadia for an enchantment expert she just pointed across the table. It's a very poor candidate for making Sayaka feel useful. We don't have to only do cloning, but it needs to be things she can usefully apply now, not after a few months of study. This is why I keep bringing up construction.
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Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
[Q] Tell Sayaka if she makes a thousand clones, she can learn things a thousand times faster.
-[Q] Believe it!
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- Location
- Illinois
NEW:
[X] Frown. You were slow to decide on this, but...
-[X] Brief Sayaka on the broad strokes of the Kyouko issue. Scarce hunting, mental/emotional problems left unspecified because privacy,
--[X] We stay in Kyouko's tolerance by not pushing things too much. But somebody has to push things, or she'll never change... and she needs to change. This is the second motive for the training with Kyouko.
---[X] yes Sayaka is the right choice for this, best way to do it is probably to loudly be Sayaka.
-[X] Also, if she's looking for something to work while sore from training, you'd suggest clones. Manpower... er, Megucapower? is valuable.
[X] Transform stress into happiness through mumihugs.
[X] Karaoke!
-[X] Have a duet with Mami.
Always Happening
We could have prevented this.
- Location
- On a train with no brakes
Settle the rust belt!
No, seriously, we can colonize the abandoned industrial zones in Mitakihara and Kasamino for immigrants, and Kyuubey is contractually obligated to keep the hidden town censored from non-potential normies because magic.
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Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
I'd rather not depend on him doing that.
[X] Give Sayaka a hug and apologize for being poor with advice.
-[X] Let's try this: Operation Make Kyouko Great Again
--[X] We're not able to do it because we're not the kind of person Kyouko needs - Sayaka is. We can keep her alive, but only Blueberry can possible crack the Tsun and get to the Dere
--[X] We can't say exactly why, because it's not our secret to tell, but doing this would not only bolster our team with a new ally, but also make Kyouko (and Mami) really happy.
--[X] The best way to do this is probably to be Blueberry. As such, we're giving her full reign to pursue the project.
[X] If that doesn't work on her, break for voting
[X] Mumihugs
[X] Karaoke
Worst comes to worst we can't comfort Sayaka and we have to pass the bill off to someone better than us at Social, like Homura.
I'm okay with this, but I think we should put up a happier front and let Brina'pilot handle a bit more of it - not only does she have all the body language, but she also has control over the tone. We should definitely mark what we want to hit on though.
[X] Give Sayaka a hug and apologize for being poor with advice.
-[X] Let's try this: Operation Make Kyouko Great Again
--[X] We're not able to do it because we're not the kind of person Kyouko needs - Sayaka is. We can keep her alive, but only Blueberry can possible crack the Tsun and get to the Dere
--[X] We can't say exactly why, because it's not our secret to tell, but doing this would not only bolster our team with a new ally, but also make Kyouko (and Mami) really happy.
--[X] The best way to do this is probably to be Blueberry. As such, we're giving her full reign to pursue the project.
[X] If that doesn't work on her, break for voting
[X] Mumihugs
[X] Karaoke
Worst comes to worst we can't comfort Sayaka and we have to pass the bill off to someone better than us at Social, like Homura.
mistfist
Protector of Moe
- Location
- United States, EST
Alrighty boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen, it's time to another chapter of "mistfist's rambling about Tart Magica, and why it's relevant to PMAS".
I'll start this off by saying all I have are broad details because the English translations are not out until November. However! @AuraTwilight and I got to look at the volume 4 and 5 RAWs. There are a lot of smaller details that are unknown to us, due to me only having google translate and Aura waiting for the English release to fully delve into it, but everything that follows is from what little we've accurately translated. These are the most important parts, and the parts most relevant to us, and to Sabrina.
TL/DR: Tart and Riz are not in Walpurgisnacht. Riz died after fusing with Tart in the final battle, and Tart was so pure that she died without despair on the pyre and ascended to Madokahalla before Madoka wished. Walpurgisnacht is instead probably formed from an amalgam of English Magical Girls and Witches pulled into Riz's shadow universe in an earlier battle. The core English Magical Girl hates Tart and Riz and all that they stand for, and may be the reason Walpurgisnacht is targeting Madoka and Homura.
For the full summary, read below.
First, at the end of volume 4, Tart and her harem gang of totally platonic friends are attempting to drive the English Girls out of France, and end up finding a Barrier on one of the fort's walls.
Charging inside, they are met with Mineau, the cat-themed English Girl, who then pulls dozens of English brainwashed meguca into the Barrier.
And then proceeds to witch them all out for an army of witches.
If you felt any measure of sympathy for the English Girls, you should drop that immediately. This ends volume 4, and volume 5 starts with an all out brawl between Tart's crew and Mineau's army of witches.
The fight is clearly in favor of the English with Tart, Riz, Mel, and Eliza managing to kill a few witches, but still remain overwhelmed by the horde of despair. Tart and Riz are split from Mel and Eliza, and end up having to face Lapin, the rabbit themed English magical girl who can return to life at will, even after turning into a Witch. A brief reprieve occurs where Riz and Tart basically confess their desire to be with each other for the rest of their lives (EEEeeeeeee!).
But they are instead cornered by the furious Lapin. Facing certain death, Riz pulls out her ultimate ability:
A door to her shadow dimension. Riz restrains Tart with her shadows, and opens the door, letting arms of darkness start pulling everything inside, including Lapin, several Witches, and in the end, Riz's body (more on this later).
If Riz is inside the door when it shuts, she will be unable to open it, meaning nothing inside can escape it, even the deathless Lapin. So Riz sacrifices herself to save Tart, telling her to be the light France needs.
Tart is left only with Riz's promise to be with her in her soul as she vanishes forever. That is, until the final battle with the head of England's Magical Girl/Witch army.
Part 2 coming up next. Stupid 20 image limit...
I'll start this off by saying all I have are broad details because the English translations are not out until November. However! @AuraTwilight and I got to look at the volume 4 and 5 RAWs. There are a lot of smaller details that are unknown to us, due to me only having google translate and Aura waiting for the English release to fully delve into it, but everything that follows is from what little we've accurately translated. These are the most important parts, and the parts most relevant to us, and to Sabrina.
TL/DR: Tart and Riz are not in Walpurgisnacht. Riz died after fusing with Tart in the final battle, and Tart was so pure that she died without despair on the pyre and ascended to Madokahalla before Madoka wished. Walpurgisnacht is instead probably formed from an amalgam of English Magical Girls and Witches pulled into Riz's shadow universe in an earlier battle. The core English Magical Girl hates Tart and Riz and all that they stand for, and may be the reason Walpurgisnacht is targeting Madoka and Homura.
For the full summary, read below.
First, at the end of volume 4, Tart and her harem gang of totally platonic friends are attempting to drive the English Girls out of France, and end up finding a Barrier on one of the fort's walls.
Charging inside, they are met with Mineau, the cat-themed English Girl, who then pulls dozens of English brainwashed meguca into the Barrier.
The fight is clearly in favor of the English with Tart, Riz, Mel, and Eliza managing to kill a few witches, but still remain overwhelmed by the horde of despair. Tart and Riz are split from Mel and Eliza, and end up having to face Lapin, the rabbit themed English magical girl who can return to life at will, even after turning into a Witch. A brief reprieve occurs where Riz and Tart basically confess their desire to be with each other for the rest of their lives (EEEeeeeeee!).
mistfist
Protector of Moe
- Location
- United States, EST
Riz's Soul Gem comes out of Tart's shadow to fuse with Tart's Soul Gem, and both girls join together for one, final battle.
However, the Grief is not disappearing. It is then revealed that Riz's wish to "Make a true hero with her own hand" became granted this way, after several previous failures, funneling all of the excess grief into Riz's shadow realm to make Tart into the Hero that France needed (also, Riz's Soul Gem literally became Tart's hand, which is hilarious).
But these attacks did not come without their price (ignoring the massive amounts of grief being given to the most likely source of Walpurgisnacht, trapped in Riz's shadow realm).
At the end of the battle, when all the enemies are defeated, Tart and her friends realize that because her Soul Gem is full, she cannot purify it with a Grief Seed, even though it hasn't broken.
But Tart, glorious cinnamon roll that she is, says that she will not allow it.
It might just be the alternate take on history that I adore, or the amazingly creative characters, or maybe even the numerous occasions of canon yuri, but I have to say that out of all the spinoff manga for Madoka Magica, none have made me as invested in the story as Tart Magica. If you haven't already given them a read, I cannot recommend them enough. They're not perfect, no story is, but they're a wonderful story nonetheless.
Now, if you have any further questions, don't be afraid to ask. Just know that I will be updating these images with the translations once they're out (this might take a while because the scans usually take forever, but they'll be there eventually).
Thanks for reading everyone!
- Location
- Illinois
Right, so, the first line:
is actually important because... if you re-read last post, if we don't say this it's just absolutely godawful flow and it'll throw Sayaka for a loop.
We can get rid of "Frown" and we should because... I have no reason for putting that there!
I disagree with this, because it's too flippant. This is... the tone we need is serious but positive. Because this is a serious conversation. Also... Sayaka alone isn't going to do everything. Why? Because there's a tendency where, in a vacuum, Sayaka gets mad AF at Kyouko and stops talking to her. Sayaka is there to say the hard things Kyouko needs to hear but that don't fit into the dynamic she has with us -- if we tell her she's being an idiot, and leaving familiars alive is wrong, and etc, she'll just break off contact with us and file us away under "more of Mami's brood." If Sayaka tells her that, it's a different story because the dynamic is different. And she does need to hear these things. This is why Sayaka is important for this.
Mrgl... okay I guess.
Definitely not the right way to handle this. She is unsure of herself. Giving her direction is better than not.
NEW: 100% less frowning
[X] You were slow to decide on this, but...
-[X] Brief Sayaka on the broad strokes of the Kyouko issue. Scarce hunting, mental/emotional problems left unspecified because privacy, desire to reconcile Kyouko + Mami conflicting with unspecified Kyouko problems.
--[X] We stay in Kyouko's tolerance by not pushing things too much. But somebody has to push things, or she'll never change... and she needs to change. This is the second motive for the training with Kyouko. It would mean the world to Mami.
---[X] yes Sayaka is the right choice for this, best way to do it is probably to loudly be Sayaka
-[X] Also, if she's looking for something to work while sore from training, you'd suggest clones. Manpower... er, Megucapower? is valuable.
[X] Transform stress into happiness through mumihugs.
[X] Karaoke!
-[X] Have a duet with Mami.
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Zeroth Jupi
Sporadic Writer and Haver of Ideas
- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
[] Kaizuki
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- Location
- Illinois
[x] Kazumi
Okay, Ruby, I see how it is. I see how it is. Just because I'm not Blake you can't even acknowledge that I'm a catgirl. That's how it is, huh.
BUT I HAVE A WEAPON
I HAVE BLACKMAIL
I HAVE VIDEO OF YOU PLAYING WITH A CAT TOY ON THE FLOOR!
Always Happening
We could have prevented this.
- Location
- On a train with no brakes
Having not read the manga, I can only assume that the Heaven Tart ascended to is a different one than Madokahalla and/or this was from a previous timeline (per other side stories), since Madokami is atemporal by nature.
So WPN might be the result of someone cracking the freshness seal on Riz's shadow realm? Those circumstances should result in the creation of a Walpugisnacht/Dawn of Hyades-like entity (which I'll henceforth refer to as a Conglomerate Witch), but it seems like that one would be formed primarily around a core of a shitton of Lapin|witches, with others tacked on. Does Lapin/her witch share any of WPN's aesthetic? It's entirely possible that said conglomerate was already tracked down and destroyed within the intervening several hundred years, if it isn't still sealed away.
Speaking of, if things did escape that dimension, and Lapin has True Immortality, shouldn't she still be knocking about somewhere as an unstoppable goddess of war/batshit insane hermit? Either way, this is a meguca that deserves saving; not even Homura had to go through a kind of Hell this special.
Plot twist: After hundreds of years of stacking Lapins, the conglomerate's grown sufficiently in size and strength to leak out of containment and completely fuck with metaphysics; it's actually FEATHERS.
...Actually, fuck. We are talking hundreds of years of this thing ramping slowly, but continuously; it's totally possible, if it still exists, that it's at least a planetary threat by now, if not an ontological one.
RagnorakTres
Technically Correct
- Location
- A Rolled Up Sidewalk Somewhere South Of Toledo, OH
- Pronouns
- Any/All
[X] Kaizuki
Usually pretty content to let the rest of the thread make decisions, but the catgirl has the right approach, I think, and the vote's pretty close right at the moment.
Usually pretty content to let the rest of the thread make decisions, but the catgirl has the right approach, I think, and the vote's pretty close right at the moment.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
I think Kaizuki mostly has the right of it, but I want to add two things.
Firstly, just a note of what clone practice could be useful for and that it's just one way she could help.
Secondly, I want to hint at the metabomb topics in jest. Even as a vocal proponent of the idea of bringing up the metabomb and such, I don't think this is the moment. I would, however, like to quietly hint at it and raise a motion to put such talk directly after the witch hunt.
[X] You were slow to decide on this, but...
-[X] Brief Sayaka on the broad strokes of the Kyouko issue. Scarce hunting, mental/emotional problems left unspecified because privacy,desire to reconcile Kyouko + Mami conflicting with unspecified Kyouko problems.
--[X] We stay in Kyouko's tolerance by not pushing things too much. But somebody has to push things, or she'll never change... and she needs to change. This is the second motive for the training with Kyouko.It would mean the world to Mami.
---[X] yes Sayaka is the right choice for this, best way to do it is probably to loudly be Sayaka
-[X] Also, if she's looking for something to work while sore from training, you'd suggest clones. Manpower... er, Megucapower? is valuable. It's one thing that could help us with the magical girl influx problem, among others.
-[X] In jest: Alternatively, she can help us and Mami figure out how to fight witches with a railway gun.
[X] Transform stress into happiness through mumihugs.
[X] Karaoke!
-[X] Have a duet with Mami.
Firstly, just a note of what clone practice could be useful for and that it's just one way she could help.
Secondly, I want to hint at the metabomb topics in jest. Even as a vocal proponent of the idea of bringing up the metabomb and such, I don't think this is the moment. I would, however, like to quietly hint at it and raise a motion to put such talk directly after the witch hunt.
[X] You were slow to decide on this, but...
-[X] Brief Sayaka on the broad strokes of the Kyouko issue. Scarce hunting, mental/emotional problems left unspecified because privacy,
--[X] We stay in Kyouko's tolerance by not pushing things too much. But somebody has to push things, or she'll never change... and she needs to change. This is the second motive for the training with Kyouko.
---[X] yes Sayaka is the right choice for this, best way to do it is probably to loudly be Sayaka
-[X] Also, if she's looking for something to work while sore from training, you'd suggest clones. Manpower... er, Megucapower? is valuable. It's one thing that could help us with the magical girl influx problem, among others.
-[X] In jest: Alternatively, she can help us and Mami figure out how to fight witches with a railway gun.
[X] Transform stress into happiness through mumihugs.
[X] Karaoke!
-[X] Have a duet with Mami.
mistfist
Protector of Moe
- Location
- United States, EST
Not quite. Tart Magica is canon for (probably) every Witch Verse, and thus happens before Madokami comes into existence. No wraiths exist, so this clearly isn't post-PMMM, and yet Madoka shows up in the end of the manga, watching from the sky.
So something strange happens that makes the timeline in wraithverse at least similar to canon, but too many things in Tart Magica would be impossible without Grief and Witches, so something else is going on.
I'm probably reading too deeply into this, but the most likely solution to all these problems is that Tart is simply waiting for Madoka when she becomes God. Somehow.
~Magic~
Lapin's power lets her choose to turn back into human or witch form, but even if that wasn't the case, she might honestly like being in Walpurgisnacht due to her and the rest of England's magical girls love for despair and desire to cause as much death and pain as possible.
Her being the core, seeking the despair of millions, actually makes more sense than Walpy being Tart's witch in that regard.
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Always Happening
We could have prevented this.
- Location
- On a train with no brakes
If Madokami actually shows up in the flesh, yet Witches are still a thing that exist (on the mortal plane, contrary to her Wish), then yeah, that's pretty fucking bizarre, and I can't think of an explanation for it outside of inconsistent writing.
Lapin: Thanks for clarifying that, that's significantly less alarming. They way you phrased it, it sounded at first like her power allowed her to witch out, respawn, and then witch out again, ad infinitum, not just arbitrarily de-witch/de-corpse herself (AKA literally the best possible power for Sayaka to copy).
- Location
- Illinois
My take on this is that what we should do frankly, if there is ever another fucking angel reference with Sayaka in it again we corner her in a privacy bubble and ask if she is or has ever been an agent of Madokami. I don't understand the railway gun reference, though.
I felt this was implied. I feel like a bunch of stuff is implied. We've discussed this stuff at length, I'm swayed to just let Firn sort it out *faith intensifies*
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The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
That makes no sense whatsoever. If that's the intent then I can't help but feel that the manga writers aren't even trying to be coherent and are just making up random bullshit.
I don't agree. Sayaka is just fine at combat, she just has poor self-esteem because she's comparing herself to some of the best MGs in the world.
I don't think that telling Sayaka that her training is actually for Kyouko's benefit instead of for hers is going to help Sayaka feel better. It would basically be confirming Sayaka's belief that she's not good enough to fight alongside us by telling her that she's only useful as a pawn to manipulate someone better. It's just more of us playing the mastermind and looking down on Sayaka as the minion.