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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Redshirt Army said:
Sayaka beat us at a melee spar *the day after she contracted*, after we'd already been a guca for more than a week, including the fighting at Sendai.

Since then, we have literally never won a melee match against her, with Mami judging her to be improving by leaps and bounds.

She *sucessfully cornered us in melee* despite us having a constant minimap of her position and significantly more mobility.

Don't make excuses - either Sayaka is some kind of impossible prodigy (which Kyouko and Mami's reactions point against) or we're hot garbage at melee.

Which is fine - if we were allowed to use our grief, we could probably beat Sayaka and Kyouko working together while slouching against a rock and not moving the entire time.
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We have the amazingly useless power of being able to destroy the world. :p
 
Onmur said:
We are bad at melee as in most every other magical girl is just better at it. It's not that Sabrina doesn't have skills, she's just not a melee fighter. She's a slow wizard type of fighter.

We beat Kirika with pure melee, back when Kirika was still new and green. I expect she would wreck us now.


This merits a re post. :p
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That might be true, but this instant defeatist attitude is certainly not making us any better at it. There is a reason confidence is usually considered a good thing in most competitions.

On top of that, Magic seems to be fueled by intent. So by that logic, a Magical Girl who convinces herself she is terrible at X, will probably become terrible at X despite her actual skill level.
 
Onmur said:
[] Fight...
- [] Full force. Sayaka's better than you at this. Fair warning, though.
[] After training...
- [] Bring up the Nakano thing.
- [] Head back.
--[Q] Ask Sayaka if she wants to stay and live with Kyouko.
- [] Karaoke!
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Hm. Mostly alright, but bringing up Nanako then making a joke is going to piss Kyoko off. The church is a super touchy subject.
 
DB_Explorer said:
Shouldn't a warhammer be useful and breaking through blocks?

As in Warhammer vs sword - hammer wins?

or is that more vs shields?
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Warhammers are good against armor. All megucas count as armored targets.

They're also all speedsters, so hammer's not that good by itself, not without a lot more experience wielding it.

A good sword I think beats any other melee weapon besides poleaxes. We could try extending our hammer to get range over Sayaka, but we've never tried it and we're in a forested are, so not a good idea.

Also, Sayaka shoots her swords, and we're not so quick as to be able to easily bait her into doing that and hitting her while she's momentarily unarmed.

If we were purely defending, I believe we could have a chance in a spar against Sayaka, if Sabrina can put her multitasking/awareness to good use, but we're the one on the offensive here; it's gonna be difficult to keep Sayaka from slipping past us.

All in all, Kyouko's gonna have to do some dodging. :p
 
BlackoutSampler said:
That might be true, but this instant defeatist attitude is certainly not making us any better at it. There is a reason confidence is usually considered a good thing in most competitions.

On top of that, Magic seems to be fueled by intent. So by that logic, a Magical Girl who convinces herself she is terrible at X, will probably become terrible at X despite her actual skill level.
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Nah, really man. When we've tried to develop melee we've found... we've got a hammer, and that's about it. Nearly anyone who had skill in it had to be beaten with our grief as we defended ourselves with melee. There is, much like a D&D wizard, a "balance". With great, world shattering power comes getting your ass kicked if you, for some reason, ignore that power and go get into a fist fight.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Don't make excuses - either Sayaka is some kind of impossible prodigy (which Kyouko and Mami's reactions point against) or we're hot garbage at melee.
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Just want to point out, Kyoko is not the type to tell Sayaka that she's some impossible prodigy. Mami is nicer, but both may have a reason not to let Sayaka know what she's doing is extremely unusual.

Namely, that right now Sayaka has a fire under her ass thinking she needs to go all in to be relevant, and telling her the prodigy bit may make her think, "Okay, so maybe I don't need to work quite that hard..."

A little bit manipulative, yeah, but Kyoko would do it in a heartbeat at the least. Mami...okay that, requires more mental gymnastics.
 
Onmur said:
I like how nobody's taking offence at the implication Yuma's better than us at melee. :p



[] Fight...
- [] Full force. Sayaka's better than you at this. Fair warning, though.
[] After training...
- [] Bring up the Nakano thing.
- [] Head back.
--[Q] Ask Sayaka if she wants to stay and live with Kyouko.
- [] Karaoke!

So we need songs.
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What year is this? Is the Les Miserables movie out yet? If so we need to do a one guca rendition of one day more, featuring Sabrina and the 'Brinas.
 
I mean, it's not like we couldn't get better at melee, we've just always decided our grief powers were far and away more useful to develop. Since, well, they are. We can prevent ourselves from being attacked in melee in a million ways, and all of them rely on grief. The only person who can take that from us is Kirika, and she's on our side now. For the purpose of the training exercise... I don't think Kyoko wants to totally overwhelm Sayaka, and so is relying on us being shit at melee anyway.
 
[ ] FULL THROTTLE, ALL ENGINES FORWARD
-[ ] Don't do anything fancy and new though. Just keep Sayaka's attention on you
[ ] After training
-[ ] Bring up Nakano.
-[ ] Karaoke
-[ ] Continue being as subtle as a bull moose in the backseat of a prius as far as your relationship with Mami
-[ ] Conspire with Madoka to ship all your friends. Including her, with Homura. Madoka must become the Tomato.
-[ ] Be super embarassed when Madoka teases you back about Mami

Edited vote for maximum fluffles
 
Bitching out Kyoko for leaving? I... would not recommend that. And really, telling Mami Kyoko isn't familiar farming is, on its own, kinda pointless. If she asks, sure, but as you said, it's not going to have a good effect on her.
 
@Kaizuki

I don't believe we have any actual metaknowledge that Kyouko has never familiar farmed.

My personal interpretation is that she doesn't like doing it, and has stopped entirely while she has Yuma under her wing, but that she has engaged in the practice before.

That seems the most consistent interpretation with The Different Story and what we see in canon, anyway.
 
Gadjo said:
Bitching out Kyoko for leaving? I... would not recommend that. And really, telling Mami Kyoko isn't familiar farming is, on its own, kinda pointless. If she asks, sure, but as you said, it's not going to have a good effect on her.
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Hmmm, I recommended against the first thing and the second thing. Are we disagreeing somewhere?
 
Gadjo said:
Bitching out Kyoko for leaving? I... would not recommend that. And really, telling Mami Kyoko isn't familiar farming is, on its own, kinda pointless. If she asks, sure, but as you said, it's not going to have a good effect on her.
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Hmmm, I recommended against the first thing and the second thing. Are we disagreeing somewhere?

Redshirt Army said:
@Kaizuki

I don't believe we have any actual metaknowledge that Kyouko has never familiar farmed.

My personal interpretation is that she doesn't like doing it, and has stopped entirely while she has Yuma under her wing, but that she has engaged in the practice before.

That seems the most consistent interpretation with The Different Story and what we see in canon, anyway.
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... This is essentially what I'm saying?

I like to believe that she never did it if she didn't have to, and that she quite possibly never did have to, what with all of Kasamino to herself, which is implied to be prime hunting grounds given that even so dry with all the witches moving to Mitakihara it's still enough for sustenance without farming. But my point is, we've inferred based on in-story elements that she is not engaged in farming.
 
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Kaizuki said:
Speaking frankly, if we had no metaknowledge and we discovered evidence that Kyouko was not engaging in familiar farming, I would push for us to tell Mami that. At the very least I think it provides a lot of closure for Mami in terms of relieving her godawful complexes over not killing Kyouko way back when.
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This seems to imply you want to tell Mami Kyoko isn't familiar farming, which is good, but only brings up bad thoughts.
Kaizuki said:
"The worst thing you ever did or could have done for Mami was when you pushed her away." Honestly, in a PMPS-style situation with grief control, I would have pushed to make that our opening line with Kyouko. It might get us wailed on, it might piss her off, but if there's anything to take away from anime SayaKyou it's that the best way to talk to Kyouko is forward and honest, and if you want to get her to make up with Mami fast, I think the way to do it is to throw the metaphorical fifty ton truck at her face and then talk out the details during the ensuing fight.

And really? I think we have all the pieces we need to rock a situation like that. Lichbomb plus the effect that that had on Mami is enough to put together an extremely convincing "you almost killed her when you did that, and you left her more vulnerable for later problems." If you've got the power to survive telling her that to her face -- and the ability to keep it from witching her -- you're virtually set. Don't show her pity or anything similar until the facade cracks at least a bit, or she'll use it as fuel to keep going.
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This seems to be advocating for telling Kyoko she really hurt Mami when she left. This is not going to be productive right now, and will just really, really piss her off.
 
Onmur said:
I like how nobody's taking offence at the implication Yuma's better than us at melee. :p

[] Fight...
- [] Full force. Sayaka's better than you at this. Fair warning, though.
[] After training...
- [] Bring up the Nakano thing.
- [] Head back.
--[Q] Ask Sayaka if she wants to stay and live with Kyouko.
- [] Karaoke!
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Two additions:

[] Make a privacy field and Metabomb Sayaka.
-[] Discuss the possibility that Sayaka contracted a bit of meta information. She's made comments here and there that make it seem like she half-remembers certain things.

Onmur said:
So we need songs.
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Two songs come immediately to mind:

Mr. Roboto has already been mentioned quite recently by Redshirt.
OH NO! by Marina and The Diamonds, because its perfect for the magical girl who chooses to live this life with eyes wide open.

Hannz said:
Why strategize this much? A standard "Go all out" vote is enough. Our goal here isn't to win, it's to help Kyoko test Sayaka, and for that, a super specific and optimized strategy isn't really needed.
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Broadly agreed. The only reason I can see to add anything else is to add a flavor and emphasis on a certain direction, mindset, or goal.

So I'd suggest:

[] Take this seriously. You need the practice combating magical girls without resorting to drastic measures.
 
The Phoenixian said:
[] Make a privacy field and Metabomb Sayaka.
-[] Discuss the possibility that Sayaka contracted a bit of meta information. She's made comments here and there that make it seem like she half-remembers certain things.
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We could do the privacy field with excuse of having Sayaka try to copy it with Kazumi's powers.

And I guess since we're alone with Sayaka, it's an opportune moment to metabomb her on the way back...

What do we say? That we've told Homura and Mami... Maybe that we kind of admire Sayaka? At least her less dumb personality traits? :p
 
[] Fight...
-[] Full force. Sayaka's better than you at this. Fair warning, though.
[] After training...
-[] Ask if Sayaka can copy Yuma's power.
-[] Bring up the Nakano thing.
-[] Head back.
--[] On the wayback, stop, make a Grief privacy sphere, have a talk with Sayaka:
--[] Tell her about your metaknowledge, and that Mami and Homura already know.
--[] You actually admire Sayaka, when she's not being rash.
--[] Ask if she can copy the privacy sphere with Kazumi's powers.
-[] Karaoke!
 
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