Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
[X] Fight...
-[X] Full force. Sayaka's better than you at this. Give fair warning, though.
[X] After training...
-[X] Ask if Sayaka can copy Yuma's power.
-[X] Telepathically, privately bring up the Nakano thing.
[X] Head back. On the way, stop, make a Grief privacy sphere, have a talk with Sayaka:
-[X] Ask if she can copy the privacy sphere with Kazumi's powers. It's useful.
-[X] Some of the information that you woke up with was, uh, localized. Apologize for keeping it quiet initially, let her know that Mami and Homura already know.
-[X] You actually admire Sayaka's drive for justice, when she's not being rash. Also, her powers are totally appropriate for a Heroine of Justice.
-[X] Try and fit some Rebellion references into the talk to gauge her reactions.
[X] Karaoke!
-[] Lots of room for suggestions here!
133 words total, lots of room for song suggestions and metabomb tweaks.
-[X] Full force. Sayaka's better than you at this. Give fair warning, though.
[X] After training...
-[X] Ask if Sayaka can copy Yuma's power.
-[X] Telepathically, privately bring up the Nakano thing.
[X] Head back. On the way, stop, make a Grief privacy sphere, have a talk with Sayaka:
-[X] Ask if she can copy the privacy sphere with Kazumi's powers. It's useful.
-[X] Some of the information that you woke up with was, uh, localized. Apologize for keeping it quiet initially, let her know that Mami and Homura already know.
-[X] You actually admire Sayaka's drive for justice, when she's not being rash. Also, her powers are totally appropriate for a Heroine of Justice.
-[X] Try and fit some Rebellion references into the talk to gauge her reactions.
[X] Karaoke!
-[] Lots of room for suggestions here!
133 words total, lots of room for song suggestions and metabomb tweaks.
Last edited:
Lone Courier 6
Devilish Fool
- Location
- United States of Quests
[x] Onmur
If we're allowed pick multiple songs for each person, I want one of Madoka's to be Genkai Toppa Ignited, just for the voice actor reference. The reactions if she sings it perfectly will be hilarious.
@Firnagzen if we choose the songs are we restricted by release year?
@Firnagzen if we choose the songs are we restricted by release year?
Last edited:
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Need to ask if she's an angeru.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
I'll note that metabombing Sayaka isn't the only thing to talk to her about here. Whatever it is that's up with her also needs discussing.
It doesn't need to be brought up as us thinking something's officially suspicious either.
All it might take is just noting that we've aware that other people can manifest metaknowledge (such as the way that Madoka felt she knew Homura before she met her) and that we've been wondering if Sayaka's had similar experiences. Odd dreams, a sense that she should or shouldn't do certain things (like a sense of how Kyousuke might react to a music player), or feelings of knowing people well even after just meeting them.
We can also do it candidly, but I'd like to be a little upfront with it.
Well the before 2011 is obvious, but do we have to pick specifically Japanese songs? At the very least Redshirt has made a pretty good case for picking Mr. Roboto anyways.
Subrosian_Smithy
endless
- Location
- Washington
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Hers
"I cast Tenser's Transformation-!"
"I make an attack of opportunity with my sword. You take eleventy points of damage - no, actually, it's a critical hit with a x7 multiplier, so that's seveneleventy points of damage! Your head goes flying, kablooie!"
"I hate this Fighter homebrew," Sabrina muttered.
Zeroth Jupi
Sporadic Writer and Haver of Ideas
- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
[X] Redshirt Army
We could, but we're probably better off with a single warhammer.
Only dual? We ought to be summoning them in strike position, slamming them down, then leaving them in the ground, maybe even using our outsized effect on the ground to mess with Sayaka's footing. Try summoning variants on our hammer with smaller heads and better balance to use as quarterstaves or escrima sticks. Try making a double-headed hammer, which would totally be a practical weapon since we can swing them around like they're weightless. Try copying Sayaka's shooting-swords thing by trying to make shooting-hammerheads (which would still leave us with a quarterstaff to block with!)
Really we ought to be treating this as training for us too; it's not often that we get an opportunity to actually fight in melee against a serious opponent after all. There's also no sense at all in "sticking with what works" because right now we don't have anything that "works". We ought to be throwing everything our demented minds can think of at the wall and seeing what sticks; just because we're not using Grief doesn't mean we have to be boring.
Plus it's more likely to work against someone better than us. The master doesn't fear the trained opponent; he fears the untrained idiot, because who knows what the idiot's going to do. This is the time to be that idiot!
Already did:
Madou Sutegobana
Autocorrupt has been disabled.
- Location
- Twin Realms Mandala
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
[X] Fight...
-[X] Full force. Sayaka's better than you at this. Give fair warning, though.
[X] After training...
-[X] Ask if Sayaka can copy Yuma's power.
-[X] Telepathically, privately bring up the Nakano thing.
[X] Head back. On the way, stop, make a Grief privacy sphere, have a talk with Sayaka:
-[X] Ask if she can copy the privacy sphere with Kazumi's powers. It's useful.
-[X] Tell her you don't actually have amnesia. Tell her about your metaknowledge. It's part of what helped you get everyone to get along.
-[X] Apologize for keeping it quiet initially, and let her know that Mami and Homura already know. We intend to tell Madoka and Hitomi, too.
-[X] You actually admire Sayaka's drive for justice, when she's not being rash.
--[Q] For the longest time, we thought we were a pallete swap of her!
-[X] Try and fit some Rebellion references into the talk to gauge her reactions.
[X] Karaoke!
-[] Lots of room for suggestions here!
I don't think we should bring up an H game.
-[X] Full force. Sayaka's better than you at this. Give fair warning, though.
[X] After training...
-[X] Ask if Sayaka can copy Yuma's power.
-[X] Telepathically, privately bring up the Nakano thing.
[X] Head back. On the way, stop, make a Grief privacy sphere, have a talk with Sayaka:
-[X] Ask if she can copy the privacy sphere with Kazumi's powers. It's useful.
-[X] Tell her you don't actually have amnesia. Tell her about your metaknowledge. It's part of what helped you get everyone to get along.
-[X] Apologize for keeping it quiet initially, and let her know that Mami and Homura already know. We intend to tell Madoka and Hitomi, too.
-[X] You actually admire Sayaka's drive for justice, when she's not being rash.
--[Q] For the longest time, we thought we were a pallete swap of her!
-[X] Try and fit some Rebellion references into the talk to gauge her reactions.
[X] Karaoke!
-[] Lots of room for suggestions here!
I don't think we should bring up an H game.
That's Yuma healing Sayaka, I think. She can heal at a distance.
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
We kind of do, though? If nothing else, we don't remember how we ended up coughing our lungs out in an alley, and it really did take us a while to remember our name (and in Sabrina's inner dialogue, it really was 'remembering', not 'choosing'.)
BlackoutSampler
So Easily Forgotten
[x]Onmur
yeah, I much prefer we be clear and direct when dropping bombs.
yeah, I much prefer we be clear and direct when dropping bombs.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
How good/bad an idea would it be to have, say... Homura? Sing this:
(I like this english fan translated version:
)
(I like this english fan translated version:
)
Mmm... I've no strong opinion on this.
We also recalled our name being 'Sabrina', when we fully know we made that up.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I don't think we should bring up an H game.
Fine.
[X] Fight...
-[X] Full force. Sayaka's better than you at this. Give fair warning, though.
[X] After training...
-[X] Ask if Sayaka can copy Yuma's power.
-[X] Telepathically, privately bring up the Nakano thing.
[X] Head back. On the way, stop, make a Grief privacy sphere, have a talk with Sayaka:
-[X] Ask if she can copy the privacy sphere with Kazumi's powers. It's useful.
-[X] Tell her about your metaknowledge. It's part of what helped you get everyone to get along.
-[X] Apologize for keeping it quiet initially, and let her know that Mami and Homura already know. We intend to tell Madoka and Hitomi, too.
-[X] You actually admire Sayaka's drive for justice, when she's not being rash.
-[X] Try and fit some Rebellion references into the talk to gauge her reactions.
[X] Karaoke!
-[] Lots of room for suggestions here!
Removed the "don't have amnesia" thing, since we actually do, so saying we lied about that is just making ourselves look worse for no reason.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Amnesia implies there was a past for us to forget.
We don't know whether we have amnesia or not, I'll concede that. It's fine not bringing it up, I guess.
- Location
- Illinois
Right.
It has been brought to my attention that certain people disagree with me on some fundamental issues at hand here.
So, let's explore for a moment why I want serious action on Kyouko.
We saw today that the full extent of Mami's trauma is more than enough to interfere with basic facets of life such as school. We collectively were OK with this given the circumstances -- and her perfect attendance -- but I'd like everyone to consider for a moment that no, bringing up Mami's traumas at lunch daily is not a good plan if we want her to stay in school. If you happen to disagree with that, I would refer you to AuraTwilight, who will probably have some creative invectives for his response.
The issue at hand then becomes, "how do we involve Mami in the decision making process surrounding Kyouko without ruining her school experience?"
One very simple answer to this is that we don't do this shit at lunch or in the morning. Problem solved, woohoo.
I am not, however, a massive fan of the idea that we should subject Mami to continuous progress reports about Kyouko for an unspecified amount of time, pegged subjectively by @Redshirt Army to a date I'm inclined to accept of "maybe a little more than two weeks from now."
Do I think it's doing the wrong thing to keep Mami involved in issues involving Kyouko? No. Above all we should not sacrifice Mami's agency, because the moment we start doing that is the moment she starts happily going through life at our side and in our shadow. That's not acceptable. Easy, but not acceptable.
Do I think it's doing the wrong thing to keep reopening Mami's traumas with regards to Kyouko? Yes. I think it's completely unconscionable. And more importantly, I think that anyone who would make an argument that doing so consistently will somehow "help" Mami get through her traumas is essentially promoting abuse. The ethical argument is that if the treatment does not have a reasonable chance of helping the patient, you do not apply the treatment. That is basic ethics as it is understood in the US today. Constantly reminding Mami of how Kyouko left her and of all the bad memories and complexes associated with that is not somehow magically going to help her get over it. All it does is harm her.
Are these two statements reconcilable?
Not at the present time, obviously. Not as-is. General opinion is that the former trumps the latter interms of importance, I agree completely.
And so I ask myself, every time this comes up, "does this have to remain this way?"
And every single time the answer I find is "no."
We have methods by which we could attempt to alleviate, in minority or in majority, the degree to which bringing up Kyouko subjects Mami to trauma. None of them would compromise Mami's agency. Not a one.
> We could explain our metaknowledge of Kyouko's motives to Mami.
This was something I brought up many months ago at least. There was a great deal of opposition to this on the grounds that it was a violation of Kyouko's privacy and therefore unethical. I relented at the time largely because I felt there were better, similarly quick methods, but I strongly believe that it is a lesser crime to commit such a breach than to permit this continuity of trauma.
> We could talk to Kyouko.
I think this is self-explanatory. Metabombs, lichbombs, whatever, any of it is all just a subset. We have never made any attempt to talk to Kyouko about Mami's issues beyond giving her brief summaries of some happenings. We have never made any effort to convince Kyouko to make up with Mami. For a time, this was largely necessary, see Kyouko's initial reaction to us on finding out we were staying with Mami. I no longer believe that this is currently infeasible, through any variety of methods. I undestand that some people believe otherwise, but my response to such a possibility is very simple: if you believe that this is infeasible, you should be obligated to find another way, rather than accepting the infliction of further harm on Mami.
This is the long and short of my motivations here. Reviewing Mami's traumas on a daily basis is not something I consider reasonable, ethical, unavoidable, or intelligent, for any extended period of time. Two weeks and then some is not a long time from most perspectives, certainly: but when a resolution could be affected in a space of hours or less, it is a relative eternity. The only viable counterargument seems to me to be that the lasting consequences of action taken to alleviate would be more drastic than the suffering thereby alleviated. A discussion with Kyouko could plausibly go such a way if done poorly; that social link being severed would not be acceptable. A breach of Kyouko's provacy by disclosing motives to Mami? I do not see it. I do not.
I am not here to push for solutions which will have large negatives impacts; if I suggest such a thing, I expect to be criticized. Clearly I did not do enough in my earlier post to make it clear that I did not think we should perform certain actions which I laid out, despite stating in the post that I did mot believe we should perform said actions. The sum total of my suggestions in that post, at the end, was that we should make a point of consistently relaying to Kyouko the negative effects of Mami's past isolation. The only thing I actually suggested, at the end of much rambling, was that we should mention to Kyouko before leaving today Kazumi & Co. and how much of an effect their visit has had on Mami, and possibly how she has reacted over the past couple days towards the events surrounding that.
In hindsight, my feeling is that I should have suggested more than that. Because inaction on this? It's just wrong.
Because of this, I will not suffer being accused of "fearmongering." Out of everything I've said and done today, I do not believe that I have commited any action which was an attempt to "instill fear", let alone an attempt to do such so as to push an agenda. Anyone who can demonstrate otherwise will earn a public apology, but anyone who wants to level further such accusations at me without such demonstration -- well, at any rate, I dearly hope nothing of that sort will happen, and there's not much more I can say or do about it, is there?
It has been brought to my attention that certain people disagree with me on some fundamental issues at hand here.
So, let's explore for a moment why I want serious action on Kyouko.
We saw today that the full extent of Mami's trauma is more than enough to interfere with basic facets of life such as school. We collectively were OK with this given the circumstances -- and her perfect attendance -- but I'd like everyone to consider for a moment that no, bringing up Mami's traumas at lunch daily is not a good plan if we want her to stay in school. If you happen to disagree with that, I would refer you to AuraTwilight, who will probably have some creative invectives for his response.
The issue at hand then becomes, "how do we involve Mami in the decision making process surrounding Kyouko without ruining her school experience?"
One very simple answer to this is that we don't do this shit at lunch or in the morning. Problem solved, woohoo.
I am not, however, a massive fan of the idea that we should subject Mami to continuous progress reports about Kyouko for an unspecified amount of time, pegged subjectively by @Redshirt Army to a date I'm inclined to accept of "maybe a little more than two weeks from now."
Do I think it's doing the wrong thing to keep Mami involved in issues involving Kyouko? No. Above all we should not sacrifice Mami's agency, because the moment we start doing that is the moment she starts happily going through life at our side and in our shadow. That's not acceptable. Easy, but not acceptable.
Do I think it's doing the wrong thing to keep reopening Mami's traumas with regards to Kyouko? Yes. I think it's completely unconscionable. And more importantly, I think that anyone who would make an argument that doing so consistently will somehow "help" Mami get through her traumas is essentially promoting abuse. The ethical argument is that if the treatment does not have a reasonable chance of helping the patient, you do not apply the treatment. That is basic ethics as it is understood in the US today. Constantly reminding Mami of how Kyouko left her and of all the bad memories and complexes associated with that is not somehow magically going to help her get over it. All it does is harm her.
Are these two statements reconcilable?
Not at the present time, obviously. Not as-is. General opinion is that the former trumps the latter interms of importance, I agree completely.
And so I ask myself, every time this comes up, "does this have to remain this way?"
And every single time the answer I find is "no."
We have methods by which we could attempt to alleviate, in minority or in majority, the degree to which bringing up Kyouko subjects Mami to trauma. None of them would compromise Mami's agency. Not a one.
> We could explain our metaknowledge of Kyouko's motives to Mami.
This was something I brought up many months ago at least. There was a great deal of opposition to this on the grounds that it was a violation of Kyouko's privacy and therefore unethical. I relented at the time largely because I felt there were better, similarly quick methods, but I strongly believe that it is a lesser crime to commit such a breach than to permit this continuity of trauma.
> We could talk to Kyouko.
I think this is self-explanatory. Metabombs, lichbombs, whatever, any of it is all just a subset. We have never made any attempt to talk to Kyouko about Mami's issues beyond giving her brief summaries of some happenings. We have never made any effort to convince Kyouko to make up with Mami. For a time, this was largely necessary, see Kyouko's initial reaction to us on finding out we were staying with Mami. I no longer believe that this is currently infeasible, through any variety of methods. I undestand that some people believe otherwise, but my response to such a possibility is very simple: if you believe that this is infeasible, you should be obligated to find another way, rather than accepting the infliction of further harm on Mami.
This is the long and short of my motivations here. Reviewing Mami's traumas on a daily basis is not something I consider reasonable, ethical, unavoidable, or intelligent, for any extended period of time. Two weeks and then some is not a long time from most perspectives, certainly: but when a resolution could be affected in a space of hours or less, it is a relative eternity. The only viable counterargument seems to me to be that the lasting consequences of action taken to alleviate would be more drastic than the suffering thereby alleviated. A discussion with Kyouko could plausibly go such a way if done poorly; that social link being severed would not be acceptable. A breach of Kyouko's provacy by disclosing motives to Mami? I do not see it. I do not.
I am not here to push for solutions which will have large negatives impacts; if I suggest such a thing, I expect to be criticized. Clearly I did not do enough in my earlier post to make it clear that I did not think we should perform certain actions which I laid out, despite stating in the post that I did mot believe we should perform said actions. The sum total of my suggestions in that post, at the end, was that we should make a point of consistently relaying to Kyouko the negative effects of Mami's past isolation. The only thing I actually suggested, at the end of much rambling, was that we should mention to Kyouko before leaving today Kazumi & Co. and how much of an effect their visit has had on Mami, and possibly how she has reacted over the past couple days towards the events surrounding that.
In hindsight, my feeling is that I should have suggested more than that. Because inaction on this? It's just wrong.
Because of this, I will not suffer being accused of "fearmongering." Out of everything I've said and done today, I do not believe that I have commited any action which was an attempt to "instill fear", let alone an attempt to do such so as to push an agenda. Anyone who can demonstrate otherwise will earn a public apology, but anyone who wants to level further such accusations at me without such demonstration -- well, at any rate, I dearly hope nothing of that sort will happen, and there's not much more I can say or do about it, is there?
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The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Uhhh, guys? Madoka already knows about our metaknowledge. We told her during the sleepover Saturday, before Sayaka arrived.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
I don't follow this assertions. Mami meeting Kazumi at lunch wasn't traumatizing. It was overwhelming, but I believe that the emotion was positive, that it gives Mami a positive example that will help her start shifting away from the maladaptive behaviors she's built up to cope with her trauma, and that Mami's response was overall positive and helpful. Yes, there are ways to handle this that would stress Mami out. But I don't understand why you assert that all ways to handle it are negative.
I also feel like you're approaching this from the wrong direction. Say that we magically argued Kyouko to full redemption over the course of the next hour. Magic, done. Would Mami be ready to talk to Kyouko again? No? Then we obviously need more time to work on Mami before we do anything with Kyouko.
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- Location
- Illinois
What? No, I'm referring to
Which was carried out at lunch today IC and ended with Mami unable to return to school.
Every action taken involving Kazumi has been wholly positive.
Madou Sutegobana
Autocorrupt has been disabled.
- Location
- Twin Realms Mandala
There is an awesome amv made with Homura fighting Walpurgisnacht to this song, that I continually have some trouble trying to get an appropriate link to.
(Nicovideo is not on the list, but Url is sm18445925)
[X] Onmur
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Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
...What? No, that's not what stressed Mami out at all at lunch.
Mami's issues at lunch are entirely and completely unrelated to Kyouko. They started before we ever mentioned her, and their strength was directly related to Mami's interactions with Kazumi.
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