- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Regarding the Discord log dump, I'll note that I didn't say anything in that chat that I haven't already said in the thread literally years ago:
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Yes. The masquerade breaking is likely to be accompanied by a rash of attempts to coerce potentials into using their wishes for other people's benefits. It helps - a lot - that we'll probably have global cleansing by that point and new magical girls will necessarily reveal themselves to us where we can evaluate their persona lives for coercion and come down like a ton of bricks if necessary, but it'll take a while to get to a TTS-like state where culture is that you Just Don't Talk About wishes.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Or, get it to be treated like any crime of abuse, in an appropriate scale?
Like, if you cheat a little girl into selling her Soul for your sake, don't expect to see the light of day again. Ever.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Pretty much. Breaking the masquerade before we have the ability to project major power and influence worldwide is very foolhardy, if it's even possible at all. We need to get established as a major player globally, and deal with the Incubators one way or the other, before we can even start discussing a masquerade drop seriously.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Aww... I wanted to make that joke.
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
I know I've made my Pro-Masquerade stance clear in the past (i.e. Meguca will be treated as abominations and bioweapons.), but there's something else I should say.
Maybe we should consider getting the rest of Megucadom in on this decision. This isn't an obviously Good act like Universal Cleansing. It's a very complex, potentially disasterous one. The girls that could have their lives ruined and their families endangered should maybe get a say, you know?
Who decides between what's abuse and what's a purely selfless Wish? Did that girl just Wish to heal her dad because she loves him, or because her mother was pressuring her to? Would it be ethical to let any girl in North Korea, or areas occupied by ISIS, or raised in a cult, to With? What about when psychos like the antagonists in Kazumi Magica want to make a Wish?
Let's not sugar-coat what you're suggesting here: you want to interpose Sabrina and friends as a regulatory body governing magic, backed by our power to kill anyone who crosses us. Maybe that's for the Greater Good, maybe not, but either way this is proposing to add a bureaucracy that governs the personal decisions of millions of highly emotional, potentially super-powered teenage girls; that is going to be super-messy, and I rather doubt @Firnagzen is going to even want to model something with global reach.
- Location
- Australia
Magical Girl Mafia to World Government worked pretty well in To The Stars.
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The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
I think that Redshirt's probably right: it won't be possible to break the masquerade until Kyubey is out of the picture. In Sendai we used magic in front of thousands of witnesses, and he still covered it up. He can probably cover up any other reveal we attempt.
The good news is that someone using coercion to make a girl wish for something is a non-issue, because by the time it becomes public, there will be no more contracts.
The good news is that someone using coercion to make a girl wish for something is a non-issue, because by the time it becomes public, there will be no more contracts.
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
...and the bad news is that there'll be no more Wishes.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
The flying fuck?
We're talking about a situation where the World knows about magic, I propose crimes against little girls' Souls get treated like any other crime [sic], you know, by having governments, learned people, professionals, discuss what's good or bad and what constitutes proper punishments for transgressions.
And you tell me I'm feeding a power trip and insinuate I'm poposing killing people.
Kindly go stuff it.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
The flying fuck?
We're talking about a situation where the World knows about magic, I propose crimes against little girls' Souls get treated like any other crime [sic], you know, by having governments, learned people, professionals, discuss what's good or bad and what constitutes proper punishments for transgressions.
And you tell me I'm feeding a power trip and insinuate I'm poposing killing people.
Kindly go stuff it.
Uh, yea, seconded. This should be treated as any other crime regarding coercing children.
Not gonna name some of those, but a subset of them have people trying to paint ambiguity over whether those kids wanted it or if the coercion really matters, and the only response is to say "No, fuck you, go directly to hell."
Same thing applies here if there's ANY hint of someone pressuring or psychologically coaching a kid into contracting or making specific wishes.
And yea, it'll be messy. Child Protective Services always is. I would know, I work in it.
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
You want the most likely suspects in large-scale and high-risk Wish exploitation to be the ones enforcing and punishing the crime?
The flying fuck?
We're talking about a situation where the World knows about magic, I propose crimes against little girls' Souls get treated like any other crime [sic], you know, by having governments, learned people, professionals, discuss what's good or bad and what constitutes proper punishments for transgressions.
I get that you want to think the best of people, but...human governments are generally not trustworthy on this kind of thing.
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AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Honestly, in a post-Masquerade world, there will probably be Magical Girls involved in the relevant politics for these matters.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Human government is kind of the only governement we have. If it's not good enough currently, we can only try to improve it, at least in regard to helping meguca.
Like, look for those rare good people that get into politics, that make laws that actually help people, and fund the hell out of them.
Our alternative is... what, KB?
We very much know it's not Sabrina that should be in charge of this. Even Homura knows.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Jyuubey?
Koko the red-haired Guca
Had some very shiny clones
And if you ever saw them
You could only say you're boned
All of the other Guca
Were too scared to call her names
Still they wanted for Koko
To join their Meguca games
Then one witchy Thursday Eve
Yuma came to say
Koko with your hair so red
Adopt me now that mom's dead
That's how Sabrina found them
Fighting some weird scarecrow thing
Koko the red-haired Guca
Hopefully you're improving
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
Sorry. Meant Mundane. Meguca should govern Meguca, no be governed by individuals that do not, and cannot, understand what Megucadom really means.
See above. That said...KB's Masquerade hasn't turned the Earth into a hellscape despite in place for millenia. If we can get him to accept a replacement for the Witch System, it might be wirth keeping the Masqyerade around.
Agreed, but I don't believe trusting in the existing system is alright either.
If they're allowed to, yeah. Humanity's reaction to things both different from and greater than themselves is...unpredictable.
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The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Sayaka: Hey!
Well it does make sense: "Everyone" is short but limited by the fact that it could be considered to encompass only those in the room. And that block gets a bit iffy if it doesn't reference Sayaka, otherwise it looks like we're making a note to fill her in later, rather than talking and making a note to talk about something else entirely later.
"But surely there must be other ways" you say?
There are no "better ways."
A reckoning of friendly ribbing is coming Sayaka! And if we can get Mami in on it we might even combine those two words to invoke a ribboning!
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
That doesn't sound like it could work. Meguca live in cities (or whereever), and one of their big problems is that those cities can't shelter them as they should be able to. Can't provide the most valuable resource, can't restrain them in extreme cases... meguca exist in a state of abandonement. Isolation. It's part of KB's ploy.
Meguca are human and need to be part of human society. That includes being governed by other humans, meguca or not.
Get meguca involved into the making of meguca-related laws for sure.
Sabrina herself should be there, for one. We lack meguca who could reliably weight in such matters, though. There's lots of work to do.
(Of course there's lots of work to do to break the masquerade.
I'm not sure whether we should count that timeframe in years, decades...)I feel you're saying to not break the masquedare when I'm talking about what changes should happen alongside the breaking of the masquedare.
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Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
Meguca live in cities because they need a supply of mundanes to attract Witches and feed Familiars. Get worldwide cleansing going, and that stops being a problem. Meguca can't be sheltered because civilization is built for mundanes. Meguca can't be restrained because it generally takes Meguca to defeat Meguca. Trying to change what exists to accommodate those needs will be, at best, straining on Mundane-Meguca relations. Allowing Meguca to form an independent society would solve a lot of this...although, admittedly, the issue of the parents of new Meguca is a thing that will be tough to deal with.
Why do you claim that? What makes you believe that mundanes and meguca need to share a society and a system of law, when their needs and culture are going to be drastically different by the very nature of the people in question? I genuinely can't understand what makes you believe there needs to be a single, shared society.
I am pro-masquerade, yes. That said, I was trying to contribute to planning for the alternative, in the event the thread goes for breaking it. Kinda got off topic with that last bit...easy to start arguing the greater topic over the more narrow one by accident, you know? Sorry about that.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Um, because most Meguca live in it already? Unless they're total vagabonds with no remaining fetters to existing humans already, like Kyouko, then a Meguca has family, friends, school, and all these other things that ground them in mundane society they won't want to give up.
And if Sabrina has her way, the Kyoukos of the world need never lose their connections like this in the first place, because that shit is fucking terrible and is one of the first things we need to fix, after Witches and grief scarcity.
Seriously, the average teenage girl can't just uproot her entire existence and disregard her humanity and emotional investment in human affairs just because she has magic powers now. Most of them made a wish for the sake of something mundane in their lives, like loved ones.
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BlackoutSampler
So Easily Forgotten
Yes, except no. I get what your trying to go for, but Meguca are still fundamentally human. They aren't some untouchable fae creatures just because they made a wish. And as a human, they still have human needs and desires. Food, companionship, family, stability, ways to express themselves. Yes, in theory we could create a society that provides these things, but not only is it inefficient to do so while there is a actually functional and sustainable society still around us, it needlessly creates tension between Meguca and Non-Meguca, tension that very much could lead to a war. Also, on that "it generally takes a Meguca to defeat Meguca" I gotta call bullshit. Bullets, taser, tear-gas, the vast majority of modern weaponry works just fine on them, it is just very difficult for a regular Human to do so. Yes there are bullshit outliers like Homura, Mami, and us, but the vast majority are still vulnerable to bullets.
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Except, those three are also still vulnerable to bullets?