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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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I think you're all overly worried about the infohazard.

Going to Asunaro is a solution to the infohazard. We just go, take Mami along, and make friends with everyone.

If the whole witch thing comes up, and Mami takes it badly, they can just undo it. Just erase the bad memories and put in a nice walk in the park or something. Maybe a tea party.

That's the beautiful thing about working with "mindguca".
 
NotUmika said:
I think you're all overly worried about the infohazard.

Going to Asunaro is a solution to the infohazard. We just go, take Mami along, and make friends with everyone.

If the whole witch thing comes up, and Mami takes it badly, they can just undo it. Just erase the bad memories and put in a nice walk in the park or something. Maybe a tea party.

That's the beautiful thing about working with "mindguca".
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Different mindguca, but this is actually a brilliant point: Umika's memory-auditing powers are a hard counter to Tetris, which is about the only situation where we could morally justify using them anyway.
 
Redshirt Army said:
How's this?
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I think we need Mami's reaction from letting her know 'those secrets' might be involved in the trip.

[ ] Small talk. Relax. Ask Oriko how she's doing and if she needs anything.

[ ] Serious talk time. Ask Oriko if you can invite Homura. If yes, ask Homura if she could come over, with her power.
-[ ] Explain the Asunaro situation to Homura privately, in particular that it might help with dewitching.

[ ] Privacy measures. Talk about Asunaro, and your hopes and fears there.
--[ ] Ask for advice.

Homu is a privacy measure. :p

[ ] If Mami's OK, ask her to contact Kazusa.
-[ ] Social as appropriate for permission to visit.

[ ] Once details are known, start planning a task force.
-[ ] Let Mami know those secrets might come up during the trip.
-[] Break to voting.
 
Redshirt Army said:
If we can do it for ourselves and it works, we can do it for Kirika or Homura. If we do it and it doesn't work, then having antimagic on tap will be critical to success. I don't see your logic.
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I'll clarify, then. I don't agree that Kirika is the most resistant meguca to the mind-whammy; I think Sabrina is. Unique among anyone we know of, Sabrina has an external memory backup: the thread. If Sabrina's memories were tampered with in any way, we would immediately notice the discrepancy. That isn't true for anyone else.

I also don't think that Homura would ever go for your proposed team-up. Oriko and Kirika are still very much on Homura's shit list. It was only yesterday that she posted herself outside their house with a sniper rifle while we dropped the Orikobomb on Sayaka and Hitomi.

Redshirt Army said:
Agreed. If we get in touch with Kazuza, and she seems unperturbed and schedules the visit for Wednesday afternoon, for example... I'd very seriously consider just going with Mami.

Making a unilateral decision that Mami can't go is premature until after the scheduling takes place and we hear what the situation is.
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Pretty sure I said this same thing yesterday. It's entirely possible that we'll talk to Kazusa and find out that everything is fine there, in which case all this sturm and drang is unnecessary and our insistence that Mami can't come will seem pretty harsh.

Redshirt Army said:
[ ] Small talk. Relax. Ask Oriko how she's doing and if she needs anything.

[ ] Serious talk time. Ask Oriko if you can invite Homura. If yes, ask Homura if she could come over, with her power.
-[ ] Explain the Asunaro situation to Homura privately, in particular that it might help with dewitching.

[ ] Privacy measures. Talk about Asunaro, and your hopes and fears there.
--[ ] Ask Oriko/Mami/Homura for advice.

[ ] If Mami's OK, ask her to contact Kazusa.
-[ ] Social as appropriate for permission to visit.

[ ] Once details are known, start planning a task force, and break to decide whether or not Mami should come.

How's this?
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Onmur said:
I think we need Mami's reaction from letting her know 'those secrets' might be involved in the trip.

[ ] Small talk. Relax. Ask Oriko how she's doing and if she needs anything.

[ ] Serious talk time. Ask Oriko if you can invite Homura. If yes, ask Homura if she could come over, with her power.
-[ ] Explain the Asunaro situation to Homura privately, in particular that it might help with dewitching.

[ ] Privacy measures. Talk about Asunaro, and your hopes and fears there.
--[ ] Ask for advice.

Homu is a privacy measure. :p

[ ] If Mami's OK, ask her to contact Kazusa.
-[ ] Social as appropriate for permission to visit.

[ ] Once details are known, start planning a task force.
-[ ] Let Mami know those secrets might come up during the trip.
-[] Break to voting.
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These both seem fine.
 
The Narrator said:
These both seem fine.
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Main difference, I want to let Mami know that 'secrets' might be involved (or not)...

And let her decide how much that's worth.

We can make sure she knows our metaknowledge might be faulty regarding Asunaro. That things might be OK. She can listen and judge how well Kazusa is doing.

Then she can decide, once she's got all that data, whether she wants to risk coming with us or not.

Let her decide instead of making decisions for her.
 
Onmur said:
Main difference, I want to let Mami know that 'secrets' might be involved (or not)...

And let her decide how much that's worth.

We can make sure she knows our metaknowledge might be faulty regarding Asunaro. That things might be OK. She can listen and judge how well Kazusa is doing.

Then she can decide, once she's got all that data, whether she wants to risk coming with us or not.

Let her decide instead of making decisions for her.
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I tend to agree. She's never going to develop any psychological independence or sense of self-reliance if we never let her decide anything for herself.

EDIT: Although I kind of feel like anything after "talk to Kazusa" is premature, because what we say next is going to be entirely different depending on what she says.
 
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The Narrator said:
I tend to agree. She's never going to develop any psychological independence or sense of self-reliance if we never let her decide anything for herself.
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I'm gonna try to put my feelings into words before I go and check what's for lunch.

We're the one holding all the information.

When this happens, we tend to believe we're the most capable person to make decisions, and that we should be the one making choices.

Instead, we should share as much information as we can, so others become capable of also making informed decisions.

Don't hog the information, share it.

Of course, we can't Witchbomb Mami, but we already are open about the fact we're keeping secrets from her.

If we let everyone know our worries about Asunaro might be unfounded, and let Mami know those secrets are what we're worrying about, then everyone's in as good a position to choose as us.

Downside? Mami feeling anxious about secrets coming up. I think she can handle that much.
 
The Narrator said:
Although I kind of feel like anything after "talk to Kazusa" is premature, because what we say next is going to be entirely different depending on what she says.
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Pretty much. Discussing "the secrets" with her before we gather info from Oriko and Kazuza is gonna tint her perception. I'd rather get an unbiased view first and then discuss secrets next update, once we have more context.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Pretty much. Discussing "the secrets" with her before we gather info from Oriko and Kazuza is gonna tint her perception. I'd rather get an unbiased view first and then discuss secrets next update, once we have more context.
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And that's what I'm talking about.

This is coddling Mami. I'm realizing mentioning 'secrets' shouldn't even be an aside.


[ ] Small talk. Relax. Ask Oriko how she's doing and if she needs anything.

[ ] Serious talk time. Ask Oriko if you can invite Homura. If yes, ask Homura if she could come over, with her power.
-[ ] Explain the Asunaro situation to Homura privately, in particular that it might help with dewitching.

[ ] Privacy measures. Talk about Asunaro, and your hopes and fears there. The possibility your knowledge might be wrong.
-[ ] Let Mami know part of what's worrying us have to do with those issues we haven't told her about.
--[ ] Ask for advice.

[ ] If Mami's OK, ask her to contact Kazusa.
-[ ] Social as appropriate for permission to visit.

[ ] Once details are known, start planning a task force.
Straight up. Here's what we know. Let everyone know. Then we can all make decisions as a group.

This also lets Mami know how much trouble Kazusa could be in, before she calls her. Asking Mami to call Kazusa, talk, then tell Mami how bad a situation Kazusa could be in? I seriosuly do not think Mami would appreciate it.
 
Onmur said:
I'm gonna try to put my feelings into words before I go and check what's for lunch.

We're the one holding all the information.

When this happens, we tend to believe we're the most capable person to make decisions, and that we should be the one making choices.

Instead, we should share as much information as we can, so others become capable of also making informed decisions.

Don't hog the information, share it.
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I do think that we need to consult with our teammates more rather than just making decisions for them. Yes, they technically are NPCs, but that doesn't mean we should treat them like NPCs.

But we also are in a de facto war with the Incubators for the survival of humanity, and there is such a thing as information security. We can't always be open about everything.


Onmur said:
[ ] Privacy measures. Talk about Asunaro, and your hopes and fears there. The possibility your knowledge might be wrong.
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I'd like to get a little more clarity on what exactly this would entail. When we talk about our hopes, we can't really discuss dewitching. And how would we describe our fears? Something like, "I'm worried that Kazusa is short on Grief Seeds and her Soul Gem is going to go dark, and then the rest of the Saints will fall apart and go crazy trying wacky schemes to bring her back from the dead and their Soul Gems will end up going dark too."
 
100% honesty or not, current votes are looking a lot better. Good enough.

@Redshirt Army, X in your vote so Firn doesn't start writing towards yesterday's vote?

The Narrator said:
I'd like to get a little more clarity on what exactly this would entail. When we talk about our hopes, we can't really discuss dewitching. And how would we describe our fears? Something like, "I'm worried that Kazusa is short on Grief Seeds and her Soul Gem is going to go dark, and then the rest of the Saints will fall apart and go crazy trying wacky schemes to bring her back from the dead and their Soul Gems will end up going dark too."
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Hopes in getting SCIENCE buddies, make friends, and fears as in they might be in trouble, be short on Grief Seeds, get attacked by the Soujus...
 
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Your vote should be fine.

[X] Small talk. Relax. Ask Oriko how she's doing and if she needs anything.

[X] Serious talk time. Ask Oriko if you can invite Homura. If yes, ask Homura if she could come over, with her power.
-[X] Explain the Asunaro situation to Homura privately, in particular that it might help with dewitching.

[X] Privacy measures. Talk about Asunaro, and your hopes and fears there.
--[X] Ask Oriko/Mami/Homura for advice.

[X] If Mami's OK, ask her to contact Kazusa.
-[X] Social as appropriate for permission to visit.

[X] Once details are known, start planning a task force, and break to decide whether or not Mami should come.
 
I don't know what you're talking about.

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Adhoc vote count started by Onmur on Jun 9, 2017 at 1:27 PM, finished with 118426 posts and 16 votes.
  • [x] Small talk. Relax. Ask Oriko how she's doing and if she needs anything.
    [x] Serious talk time. Ask Oriko if you can invite Homura. If yes, ask Homura if she could come over, with her power.
    -[x] Explain the Asunaro situation to Homura privately, in particular that it might help with dewitching.
    [x] Privacy measures. Talk about Asunaro, and your hopes and fears there.
    --[x] Ask Oriko/Mami/Homura for advice.
    [X] If Mami's OK, ask her to contact Kazusa.
    -[X] Social as appropriate for permission to visit.
    [x] Once details are known, start planning a task force, and break to decide whether or not Mami should come.
    [x] Be Friendlybrina. As usual, ask if there's anything you can do for O&K.
    [x] Tell Oriko that you're looking into Asunaro. Ask her for appropriate level of privacy: Mami+Kirika presence? Privacy bubble?
    [x] Ask Oriko about Asunaro.
    [x] Ask Mami about Kazuza.
    [x] Be up-front with Mami about the infohazards and help her with it. Take her aside if you need to.
    -[x] Emphasize that it's not specific to her. These are bad just in general, enough so that you're probably going this one alone.
    [x] The Eyes
    [x] Omnur
    [X] Privacy Device.
    -[X] If anyone asks, we want to obscure how long we discuss things of import, so we're putting it out early.
    [X] Ask Oriko how she's doing. As usual, ask if there's anything you can do for O&K.
    [X] Talk about Asunaro.
    -[X] Metaknowledge suggests that things might get hairy there, and we want to head that off, while making new friends with a particular penchant for SCIENCE and TEAMWORK, which we're also very in favor of.
    --[X] Ask Oriko and Mami for advice.
    [X] If Mami's OK, ask her to contact Kazusa.
    -[X] Social as appropriate for permission to visit.
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So...

mistfist - Today at 5:14 PM
As soon as she's gone: "Alright, Oriko. Where did you get your ring for Kirika? I need some advice"

Redshirt Army - Today at 5:14 PM
"You made it out of yakuza gold."


I now consider Sabrina making O&K's wedding rings as one of PMAS's goals. Even if it's post quest.

It needs to be a thing.

EDIT:

Like, we need to ask. Maybe we can make the things, give them to O&K and make them promise they'll use them as their wedding rings. :V

[Q] Do it right now!
 
Wait... why don't we schedule an official wedding for O&K? Have Kiraka make an official proposition, She should be receptive to the idea, and if Oriko gripes, point out it is to make Kiraka happy and she should cave. Heck if she really gripes, we could use her fatalism against her and say that it is better to do it now than later when she might not be healthy enough to go through with it.

It could work as another clue-by-four to Oriko's head as to what she really needs to focus on.
 
BlackoutSampler said:
Wait... why don't we schedule an official wedding for O&K? Have Kiraka make an official proposition, She should be receptive to the idea, and if Oriko gripes, point out it is to make Kiraka happy and she should cave. Heck if she really gripes, we could use her fatalism against her and say that it is better to do it now than later when she might not be healthy enough to go through with it.

It could work as another clue-by-four to Oriko's head as to what she really needs to focus on.
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Kirika's already setting up an in-house date for Oriko, remember? Memes are fine, but pushing this would do more harm than good.
 
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