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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Sleep is needed.

I'm still not feeling satisfied with any vote. We need to do more for Mami's sake. Maybe after sleeping something better will come around.

[X] Prioritize Mami's well being.

[X] Small talk.
-[X] Ask Oriko how she's doing. Offer any help you can give.
-[X] Talk about Cannone Picchio, push Kirika to think double attacks. Segue into Nadia commenting about Kazusa doing named attacks. Ask Mami about Kazusa.

[X] Serious talk time.
[X] Invite Homura to the conversation. If she doesn't want to come, we can let her know everything later.
[X] Privacy Device.
[X] Talk about Asunaro, your vague concerns and plans to visit there. And make friends.
-[X] Consult with Mami and Oriko.
-[X] Ask Mami to put you in contact with Kazusa.

Redshirt Army said:
If she can keep an eye on the active one of the pair and Mami and Sayaka are keeping an eye on Sayaka, she might agree. I don't think just asking is going to hurt her faith.
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Sayaka's not good enough with clones to keep an eye on Sayaka.

I think we all know how Homura feels about Oriko at this point.

Back around the antipain ring episode, we basically begged Homura to let us have Oriko around, and I'm not sure how far we went, but we at least implied Oriko would basically have a kill collar on and Kirika would remain contained in the house.

Homu's paranoia still said no.
 
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Onmur said:
The problem with Homura is that Homu gotta Homu.

Homu just won't see reason about Oriko. We've tried.

If we care about her opinion, we can't leave Oriko unattended and ask Homu to leave the city with us. She'd just lose faith in us.
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What we've tried is to get Homura to let Oriko and Kirika have some freedom of movement in a way that would likely let them come to school. This is different: We're specifically asking them to assist on mission very far away from Madoka.

Ensuring she doesn't lose faith in us should be pretty simple:

1: Stress that this was our idea, not Oriko's. Because it was our idea, not something Oriko warned us about or put us up to. (Worst comes to worst, she might think we're an idiot, but not a gullible pawn.)
2: When it comes to including Kirika, finding other help for the trip, and suchlike, just ask. Listen when she has input and if she lays down the law when it comes to Kirika's involvement, argue, but give her the final say.

And beyond that, just don't keep her in the dark and don't lie to her. Explain everything we know about Asunaro and Kirika's antimagic may well become fiercely desirable. (there is a potential power copier and mind-mage running about after all)
 
The Phoenixian said:
Ensuring she doesn't lose faith in us should be pretty simple:
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If it was anybody else, maybe. With Homura... Homura's fragile, her capacity to trust most of all.

Firnagzen said:
"They're not going to be anywhere near our friends, Homura. They can't leave my range and most importantly, they're accounted for."

"And..." One last reassurance, maybe. "If they try to backstab me... they won't succeed."

"No." Homura's refusal is short and sharp.

"Homura... from what Sabrina says, it sounds like Miss Mikuni might really be having troubles," Mami says, loyally backing you up. "I understand your concerns, but couldn't you trust Sabrina?"

Homura's silent for a moment. "I trust Sabrina," she admits. "I don't trust them."
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Firnagzen said:
"Homura, I... look. If it's just my safety you're concerned about, I won't mess around. I promise. Oriko's still my prisoner. If she steps out of line, or goes for an opportunity, I'll go for the gem," you glance at the seer again. She's now playing idly with Kirika's hair. Would you? Do you really have the heart to?

"No. It's not just that," Homura says. She doesn't say anything more, but... you think you know. Or you can guess. Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory must have been... must be a bitter taste to stomach.

A long moment of telepathic silence later, you continue with a sigh. "I need to fix this, Homura," you say wearily. "Out there or inside here, I'm going to try and fix things. I have an idea of what's happening, and I think my best shot is if I can get them out of this house, but... Homura, I said that if I couldn't convince you, I wouldn't bring her out. I meant it."

You pause. "That's what I've got, Homura. Is it too much to ask?"

There's a long pause before Homura responds. "Yes. Mikuni is too dangerous, and Kure isn't much less, she says. And then softly, so softly you nearly miss it even with her speaking directly into your mind, she adds something. "I'm sorry."
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To be honest, it's not something that would come up this vote. Maybe if Homu gets in here we can ask for a moment with her and tell her about Asunaro-dewitching... and I don't know, gauge her reaction before commiting to anything.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Huh. I doubt we can spin it to Mami, but going with Homura and Kirika could actually work, if we sell it to Homura as helping keep an eye on her. I deeply pity whoever gets on the wrong side of that team...
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Well we can explicitly mention the infohazard problem as why we need Mami to stay behind and take care of Homura's girlfriend instead; I mean we're kind of being forced to say that anyway to get her to stay behind, so leveraging it into a promise to at least have adequate backup, as well as giving her something meaningful to do, is at least a plausible plan.
 
TheEyes said:
Well we can explicitly mention the infohazard problem as why we need Mami to stay behind and take care of Homura's girlfriend instead; I mean we're kind of being forced to say that anyway to get her to stay behind, so leveraging it into a promise to at least have adequate backup, as well as giving her something meaningful to do, is at least a plausible plan.
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When we talk to Mami are we planing to use the word "Infohazard" to explain why it might be dangerous for her to go. If Mami understands the concept of infohazard or has heard the term before, it might be a good way to get the point across that the knowledge is dangerous to her while lessening the impression we think she is too fragile to handle certain information right now. On the other hand the word "Infohazard" itself makes things sound more intimidating.
 
Onmur said:
We, Mami's emotional crutch, want to go into a potentially dangerous situation, into a place so far Mami can't reach us.
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Something I've been meaning to suggest is that if Mami isn't comfortable being separated from us, we could let her tie a ribbon on us or send along a chibi. And since the magic cost on that would probably be pretty high, we could give her Clear Seed so it wouldn't be a problem. Win-win. :D

Still, worrying about it now seems premature. For all we know, Kazusa will want us to come at a time of day when we couldn't have been with Mami because of school anyway.

Onmur said:
How many people would be comfortable bringing Mami to Asunaro?
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If we make contact with an alive and sane Kazusa? I would be. If the shitstorm hasn't started yet, then the risk of a witchbomb isn't really much higher in Asunaro then it is anywhere else.

Akiko probably knows the witchbomb and Ono possibly does. We've never felt the need to isolate Mami from either of them out of concern that they might blurt it out in front of her. Do we have any reason to think that Kazusa will? But will only be willing to tell her face to face, not over telepathy, which she could do even if Mami stayed in Mitakihara?

Onmur said:
I think we all know how Homura feels about Oriko at this point.
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Even without Oriko around, I don't think Homura would be willing to leave Mitakihara (and Madoka) for any length of time, because she's worried about Kyubey. I doubt she feels she can rely on Mami or Sayaka to swiss-cheese him immediately if he shows up to make another sales pitch. They don't know enough about his true nature to realize that they should.

Considering that the fate of the world is at stake, I tend to agree that the best place for Homura to be is near Madoka.
 
Well, I did have some sort of PMAS related dream, but no insight came from them. Damn. :V

For what it's worth, I think Redshirt Army's vote is OK. It may work fine.

I'd like if we could have a GREAT vote for this, but I can't think of any.

The Narrator said:
We've never felt the need to isolate Mami from either of them out of concern that they might blurt it out in front of her. Do we have any reason to think that Kazusa will?
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I'm certain I've already said, no, it's not that.

By all means, I think Asunaro should already have gone down the dump by now, and if the Pleiades are still cracking, it's because of Madoka's 'fix everything' Wish.

I'm not sure if that will last longer than it'll get us to get to Asunaro.

My problem with bringing Mami to Asunaro is that the whole plot of PMKM orbits erratically around the Witchbomb and sometimes falls in and scratches it, until it crashes and becomes one with it.

By association, I figure there's a higher than comfortable chance that we'll run into Witchbomb-related problems. It's really the only logic I've seen so far for why we've been planning to go alone for so long.

If there aren't Witchbomb-related problems, great, but I don't want to risk Mami on this.

The Narrator said:
Even without Oriko around, I don't think Homura would be willing to leave Mitakihara (and Madoka) for any length of time, because she's worried about Kyubey.
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Homu would leave Mitakihara and Madoka alone some times, but I really doubt she would this timeline when it's looking like everything's working out and she might finally win.

Not worth the risk.
 
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I would expect Homura to be okay with a Sabrina/Homura/Kirika/Oriko strike team. Our feelings about the Mikunis aside, Homura knows Kirika is a valuable weapon when leveraged for good, Oriko is essentially a noncombatant right now, both of them will be out of Mitakihara entirely and under her direct supervision (the most important part), and Homura is willing to wager a fair amount on the prospect of Witch reversal. Sayaka is stable, vastly more competent and versatile than previous timelines, and has a Clear Seed to share with Mami when it comes to guarding Madoka.
 
I really want to see a Homura/Kirika buddy cop duo happen.

The main reason I'm hesitant to include it is uncertainty on how to discuss it with Mami. Like... How do we fill in this blank?

[ ] Ask Oriko how she's doing. As usual, ask if there's anything you can do for O&K.

[ ] Invite Homura to the conversation. You're going to discuss some plans where Oriko's knowledge could be useful. If she doesn't want to come, we can let her know everything later.
-[ ] If she pulls you alone into timestop, discuss your plans for going to Asunaro, including the potential dangers and benefits.
-[ ] Witchbombed allies would help. Ask her if she could come with you, potentially taking Oriko or Kirika along so that an eye is kept on them while we're out of town.

[ ] Prioritize Mami's well being. Interrupt the conversation if you think she might need it, and break to voting as appropriate.

[ ] Privacy Measures. Talk about Asunaro. You have vauge concerns that something bad might be happening there. You'd like to check in and make sure everything is alright, in addition to the usual round of distribution and making friends.
--[???] Somehow convince Mami to let us go with Homura and Kirika instead of with her???
--[ ] Ask Oriko and Mami for advice.

[ ] If Mami's OK, ask her to contact Kazusa.
-[ ] Social as appropriate for permission to visit.
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Jun 11, 2017 at 8:36 AM, finished with 118476 posts and 16 votes.
  • [x] Small talk. Relax. Ask Oriko how she's doing and if she needs anything.
    [x] Serious talk time. Ask Oriko if you can invite Homura. If yes, ask Homura if she could come over, with her power.
    -[x] Explain the Asunaro situation to Homura privately, in particular that it might help with dewitching.
    [x] Privacy measures. Talk about Asunaro, and your hopes and fears there.
    --[x] Ask Oriko/Mami/Homura for advice.
    [X] If Mami's OK, ask her to contact Kazusa.
    -[X] Social as appropriate for permission to visit.
    [x] Once details are known, start planning a task force, and break to decide whether or not Mami should come.
    [x] Be Friendlybrina. As usual, ask if there's anything you can do for O&K.
    [x] Tell Oriko that you're looking into Asunaro. Ask her for appropriate level of privacy: Mami+Kirika presence? Privacy bubble?
    [x] Ask Oriko about Asunaro.
    [x] Ask Mami about Kazuza.
    [x] Be up-front with Mami about the infohazards and help her with it. Take her aside if you need to.
    -[x] Emphasize that it's not specific to her. These are bad just in general, enough so that you're probably going this one alone.
    [x] The Eyes
    [x] Omnur
    [X] Privacy Device.
    -[X] If anyone asks, we want to obscure how long we discuss things of import, so we're putting it out early.
    [X] Ask Oriko how she's doing. As usual, ask if there's anything you can do for O&K.
    [X] Talk about Asunaro.
    -[X] Metaknowledge suggests that things might get hairy there, and we want to head that off, while making new friends with a particular penchant for SCIENCE and TEAMWORK, which we're also very in favor of.
    --[X] Ask Oriko and Mami for advice.
    [X] If Mami's OK, ask her to contact Kazusa.
    -[X] Social as appropriate for permission to visit.
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There's a serious downside to bringing Kirika or Homura to Asunaro that I'm not sure we've considered: there's a mindguca there. Any ally that we bring with us could potentially be mind-whammied and turned against us. And either of those two could seriously ruin our shit if they suddenly used their powers against us.
 
Upon reflection, I think we're better served explicitly just gathering information in this update, and then planning a strike team (possibly including Homura/Kirika) once we actually know what our time and date of arrival will be.

[x] Privacy Measures. Ask Oriko how she's doing. As usual, ask if there's anything you can do for O&K.

[x] Prioritize Mami's well being. Interrupt the conversation if you think she might need it, and break to voting as appropriate.

[x] Talk about Asunaro. You have vauge concerns that something bad might be happening there. You'd like to check in and make sure everything is alright, in addition to the usual round of distribution and making friends.
--[x] Ask Oriko and Mami for advice.

[x] If Mami's OK, ask her to contact Kazusa.
-[x] Social as appropriate for permission to visit.

[x] Once a time and date are set and details are shared, start planning a task force. Contact Homura to include her in the discussion.

The Narrator said:
There's a serious downside to bringing Kirika or Homura to Asunaro that I'm not sure we've considered: there's a mindguca there.
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The existence of mindguca bullshit is a reason to take Kirika with us, not a reason to leave her behind. Between her wish based yandere hyperfocus and her semi-passive anti-magic, Kirika is probably the hardest target to mindwhammy in all of Mitakihara - and she can dispel any bullshit that latches onto us or Homu.

I'm thinking a general policy of anti-magic sweeps every few minutes should curtail most of the bullshit.

Homura is less protected, but is plenty bullshit in her own way, and there's no way in hell she'd be okay with us just taking Kirika by ourselves.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
--[???] Somehow convince Mami to let us go with Homura and Kirika instead of with her???
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This is my main issue with votes thus far. We need to address the issue of telling Mami we don't want her along on this trip.

Which would be less of an issue if we're suddenly OK with taking Mami to Asunaro.

Redshirt Army said:
I think we're better served explicitly just gathering information in this update,
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Do that then. Don't make any proposals. Lay our problems on the table and see what everyone says before proceeding.

That means including Homua first, and not contacting Kazusa yet.

[ ] Ask Oriko how she's doing. As usual, ask if there's anything you can do for O&K.

[ ] Ask Homura if she could come over, with her power.
-[Q] Fiercely hug mom.
-[ ] Explain the Asunaro situation, potential dangers and benefits, and your dilemma in choosing partners for the trip.
-[ ] Include everyone in timestop.

Homu also doubles as a privacy device. :V

[ ] Prioritize Mami's well being. Interrupt the conversation if you think she might need it, and break to voting as appropriate.

[ ] Privacy Measures. Talk

Asunaro. You have vauge concerns that something bad might be happening there. You'd like to check in and make sure everything is alright, in addition to the usual round of distribution and making friends.
-[ ] Let Homura, O&K think; take Mami aside.
--[?] Bring up the 'secrets' we're keeping from her. Explain those secrets might come up in Asunaro.

Be honest with Mami?

--[ ] Ask Oriko and Mami for advice.

[ ] If Mami's OK, ask her to contact Kazusa.
-[ ] Social as appropriate for permission to visit.

Redshirt Army said:
[x] Once a time and date are set and details are shared, start planning a task force. Contact Homura to include her in the discussion.
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This really kind of fucks over Homu, trying to decide everything without her, when it's because of her we're having trouble picking partners.

EDIT: I misread a bit.

Still think Homu should be called first, not last.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
Between her wish based yandere hyperfocus and her semi-passive anti-magic, Kirika is probably the hardest target to mindwhammy in all of Mitakihara - and she can dispel any bullshit that latches onto us or Homu.
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We could use griefhax or speckled enchantment to make a magic item that blocks any mind magic. It's an idea that's been floating around the thread forever. We also would be immediately aware of any tampering with Sabrina's memory in a way most people couldn't be.

Kirika's yandere hyperfocus is a liability, not a strength: all the mindguca has to do is create a false memory of Oriko telling Kirika to turn on us, and she won't even question it.
 
Onmur said:
Still think Homu should be called first, not last.
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Hmm. Something like:

[ ] Ask Oriko how she's doing. As usual, ask if there's anything you can do for O&K.

[ ] Ask Homura if she could come over, with her power.
-[ ] Explain the Asunaro situation, potential dangers (witchbomb, mindguca) and benefits (dewitching), and your dilemma in choosing partners for the trip.
--[ ] Ask if Homura knows anything about Asunaro from past experience.

[ ] Prioritize Mami's well being. Interrupt the conversation if you think she might need it, and break to voting as appropriate.

[ ] Privacy measures. Talk about Asunaro. You have vauge concerns that something bad might be happening there. You'd like to check in and make sure everything is alright, in addition to the usual round of distribution and making friends.
--[ ] Ask Oriko and Mami for advice.

[ ] If Mami's OK, ask her to contact Kazusa.
-[ ] Social as appropriate for permission to visit.

[ ] Once a time and date are set and details are shared, start planning a task force. If the issue becomes relevant, take Mami aside and bring up the 'secrets' we're keeping from her. Explain those secrets might come up in Asunaro.

Thoughts?

The Narrator said:
We could use griefhax or speckled enchantment to make a magic item that blocks any mind magic. It's an idea that's been floating around the thread forever.
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If we can do it for ourselves and it works, we can do it for Kirika or Homura. If we do it and it doesn't work, then having antimagic on tap will be critical to success. I don't see your logic.
 
'We have vague concerns something might be wrong somewhere, so we want to hang out a bit and make friends' and 'convening a timestop war council' seems somewhat inconsistent in tone, by the way.

Redshirt Army said:
-[ ] Explain the Asunaro situation, potential dangers (witchbomb, mindguca) and benefits (dewitching), and your dilemma in choosing partners for the trip.
--[ ] Ask if Homura knows anything about Asunaro from past experience.

[ ] Prioritize Mami's well being. Interrupt the conversation if you think she might need it, and break to voting as appropriate
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Obviously, Mami's not going to be part of the conversation with Homura.

Also, the mindguca is one of the Pleiades Saints; she may be one of the Asunaro Mental Health Squad™, but if shit hasn't started going down there, the likelyhood of her going full yanyan is quite low.
 
Always Happening said:
'We have vague concerns something might be wrong somewhere, so we want to hang out a bit and make friends' and 'convening a timestop war council' seems somewhat inconsistent in tone, by the way.
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That's why I left it as general "privacy measures" instead of using timestop. Lesser sense of urgency.

Always Happening said:
Obviously, Mami's not going to be part of the conversation with Homura.
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"Mind the Mumi" is supposed to be a modifier for the section below it, not the one above it.

Also, the mindguca is one of the Pleiades Saints; she may be one of the Asunaro Mental Health Squad™, but if shit hasn't started going down there, the likelyhood of her going full yanyan is quite low.
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Sure, but better safe then sorry.
 
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I think we're focusing on the wrong approach to this conversation.

Too much trying to control what happens, too little being honest with our friends.

Redshirt Army said:
Hmm. Something like:

[ ] Ask Oriko how she's doing. As usual, ask if there's anything you can do for O&K.

[ ] Ask Homura if she could come over, with her power.
-[ ] Explain the Asunaro situation, potential dangers (witchbomb, mindguca) and benefits (dewitching), and your dilemma in choosing partners for the trip.
--[ ] Ask if Homura knows anything about Asunaro from past experience.

[ ] Prioritize Mami's well being. Interrupt the conversation if you think she might need it, and break to voting as appropriate.

[ ] Privacy measures. Talk about Asunaro. You have vauge concerns that something bad might be happening there. You'd like to check in and make sure everything is alright, in addition to the usual round of distribution and making friends.
--[ ] Ask Oriko and Mami for advice.

[ ] If Mami's OK, ask her to contact Kazusa.
-[ ] Social as appropriate for permission to visit.

[ ] Once a time and date are set and details are shared, start planning a task force. If the issue becomes relevant, take Mami aside and bring up the 'secrets' we're keeping from her. Explain those secrets might come up in Asunaro.

Thoughts?
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I'm thinking a version in which we try and include everyone in the conversation the whole time, with no private talk with anyone.

I know there's benefits to having private moments with Homura or Mami, but at the same time, it kind of fucks over team cohesion.

Rearranging a little and trying to reduce line lenght.

[ ] Prioritize Mami's well being. Break to voting if she's very troubled.

Maybe don't need this line if going with what I ended up thinking at the end.

[ ] Small talk. Relax. Ask Oriko how she's doing and if she needs anything.

[ ] Serious talk time. Ask Oriko if you can invite Homura.

I had a thought, maybe we should ask before inviting someone to Oriko's place? :V

[ ] Ask Homura to come over, using her power.
-[ ] Pull everyone in timestop.
-[ ] Explain Asunaro: Your faulty metaknowledge, that they might have trouble soon, need Grief Seeds, and that they could really help us help magical girls everywhere.
--[ ] Let Mami know the 'secrets' we're keeping might come up during the trip.

Aaaand maybe cut there? Mami's reaction to being told she can't come with is a big deal. How we go from there depends on her.
 
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Onmur said:
[ ] Prioritize Mami's well being. Break to voting if she's very troubled.
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Break to voting if you can't smooth it over yourself. Brinapilot 2.0 can handle most things, and I don't want to be interrupted for simple things. As of the Great Revotening I trust Brinapilot more than I do the thread.
 
Always Happening said:
Also, the mindguca is one of the Pleiades Saints; she may be one of the Asunaro Mental Health Squad™, but if shit hasn't started going down there, the likelyhood of her going full yanyan is quite low.
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If she is okay, we should ask her to find out how Sabrina interacts with mind control.
Onmur said:
Aaaand maybe cut there? Mami's reaction to being told she can't come with is a big deal. How we go from there depends on her.
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Technically your vote doesn't say she can't come with, and I think that's a good thing for a couple reasons.

1. I really do think that any insistence she doesn't come should happen after information gathering is complete. Conversation with Kazusa counts as information gathering. However, knowing about a potential infohazard should better equip Mami to navigate that conversation.
2. We don't really need to insist she doesn't come. We could let her know about the infohazard and let her decide for herself whether she would rather avoid it or help her kouhai.
 
Torgamous said:
Technically your vote doesn't say she can't come with, and I think that's a good thing for a couple reasons.

1. I really do think that any insistence she doesn't come should happen after information gathering is complete. Conversation with Kazusa counts as information gathering. However, knowing about a potential infohazard should better equip Mami to navigate that conversation.
2. We don't really need to insist she doesn't come. We could let her know about the infohazard and let her decide for herself whether she would rather avoid it or help her kouhai.
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Agreed. If we get in touch with Kazuza, and she seems unperturbed and schedules the visit for Wednesday afternoon, for example... I'd very seriously consider just going with Mami.

Making a unilateral decision that Mami can't go is premature until after the scheduling takes place and we hear what the situation is.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Probably a good idea.

I'd like to discuss Asunaro's potential for dewitching with Homura before we pull everyone in, since it's going to be critical to getting Homu's approval, and we obviously can't discuss it in front of Mami.
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Well, I'd like to let everyone know when we need to have a private conversation with anyone. With Homura, or Mami, or whomever.

I don't want problems to pop up in the future because people notice we're trying to be weirdly secretive or manipulative.
 
[x] Small talk. Relax. Ask Oriko how she's doing and if she needs anything.

[x] Serious talk time. Ask Oriko if you can invite Homura. If yes, ask Homura if she could come over, with her power.
-[x] Explain the Asunaro situation to Homura privately, in particular that it might help with dewitching.

[x] Privacy measures. Talk about Asunaro, and your hopes and fears there.
--[x] Ask Oriko/Mami/Homura for advice.

[x] If Mami's OK, ask her to contact Kazusa.
-[x] Social as appropriate for permission to visit.

[x] Once details are known, start planning a task force, and break to decide whether or not Mami should come.

How's this?
 
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