Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
I have very strong reason to believe that I am onto something here.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Madou Sutegobana
Autocorrupt has been disabled.
- Location
- Twin Realms Mandala
Instead of griefing up a pensieve(with internet connections), why not grief up a sorceress's scrying pool at the location and scry on the past meeting with it?
- Location
- Austria
No.
Oriko approached us two days before fighting, Kirika day before.
If Kirika had mind control of some sort (which, given how strong is anti-magic, she could afford), they would have won before we even realized there is a fight.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
We can't do stuff like that. Precog and pastcog are forbidden.
- Location
- Illinois
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Timeslowing was useful when she was Oriko's assassin and would take out single targets, but it's pretty useless for defense. It was directional (which is how Mami was able to drive Kirika off, by setting off an explosion behind her), so it wouldn't function very well against multiple opponents. It also wouldn't have let her get out of Mami's ribbons, so if Kirika had had timeslow instead of anti-magic when we caught them, there would have been no fight.
There's a practical issue with giving her mind control. Sabrina is a player character. For mind control to work on her, Firn would basically have to take control of the character away from us for the duration. At which point it would be a fic instead of a quest. Unless he made it more subtle, like Sasa's (which is the only canonical instance of one meguca mind-controlling another than I'm aware of) which was basically like a Charm Person effect. In which case, the genre-savvy players would have voted to grief up a tinfoil hat of Mind Blank to negate the effects, and the whole thing would be over very quickly.
And it still wouldn't help her at all against timestop, which she was going to face at some point or another.
Would you care to elaborate?
- Location
- Illinois
@Sereg I think the benefits afforded by leaving Oriko and Kirika to immediately talk this over after we finish socialing them outweight the benefits of ascertaining the alignment of soulguca. Both are relatively trivial, I think, but I think the former is less trivial than the latter. If soulguca is hostile we are Mitakihara and soulgua shall do our bidding for grief seeds.
*sabrina intensifies*
*sabrina intensifies*
- Location
- Austria
Eh.
Sabrina is pretty easy to kill with good alpha strike before she can react. And with Oriko it's kinda easy to have an opportunity.
Like, if you are arguing that anti-magic was given to Kirika as ability most useful when fighting Sabrina, you are forgetting that:
1. Freaking Ramiel gave us more than enough trouble without being wished for in such circumstances. There are quite a lot of powers which would allow O&K to one-shot us...hell, even bigger mine would do the trick.
2. Much more importantly, they never intended to seriously fight. The whole purpose was to drive team Mitakihara closer, so the whole discussion about what could be more useful fighting power is kind of pointless.
Godwinson's argument makes much more sense than "power best suited to anti-Sabrina" when anti-Sabrina was never seriously in plans in the first place. Oriko didn't need help killing us, remember mine?
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
But Oriko didn't want us dead, remember? The timeline where her plan was to kill meguca was the one where Kirika had timeslowing. In this timeline, Oriko wanted us, Mami and Homura working together against Feathers, so she needed all of us alive. And anti-magic could stymie us without hurting us.
- Location
- Illinois
*sighs*
Superspeed, toggleable aura anti-magic (i.e., the bogeyman so many were afraid of when we closed with O&K in timestop, which would've blown out Homura's magic through timestop and left us sitting ducks), superstealth, mind control (use Hitomi as a hostage, e.g. -- Kirika reached her easily, remember?)...
Any of these would've given them a better chance against us than her antimagic, which in spite of being able to cancel timestop was totally useless for actually fighting the three of us, much less for fighting Homura whose kit consists of entirely nonmagical weaponry ranging from pistols to LMGs to howitzers.
And if the antimagic was actually supposed to be useful for fighting us it would've been a toggleable aura.
And, none of this even matters, because the argument in question clicks in so nicely alongside what we've already said. It's a matter of "oh, this is a credible alternative theory that I can't discount," not "but can you prove that." Her reactions so far have hopefully made that much quite clear to anyone who disagreed when I said the same thing about precog spiral, a plan which drew accusations in the same vein as you are making now and which, you know, actually worked.
- Location
- South Africa
Range issues, remember?
We aren't allowed precog. Where does it say we aren't allowed postcog?
There is another canon meguca with far more powerful mind control. Kagari Hinata - Puella Magi Wiki
Look her up. She's ridiculous.
We have yet to develop any defenses against mind control. Also, as a soulguca, it's possible that she can just declare that none of our grief manipulation works at all. Besides, why is everyone treating the alignment of Soulguca as the only thing I brought up?There are several problems with not knowing. Even providing Oriko assurance that we are treating her condition seriously and working on it is a benefit.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
The important point to make here is that Kirika did not wish to help Oriko against her enemies, she wished to help Oriko. The intent behind the wish is what matters the most, and the argument that it's what's effective against others is irrelevant, because Kirika's wish was focused on helping Oriko, and she got anti-magic powers out of it. That means the thing that would help Oriko the most, no matter the situation, no matter what Oriko is dealing with, is being able to stop magic.
The definition feature of Oriko as a magical girl, is how much her powers fuck with her. This is part of why Kirika manifested anti-magic, rather than any of the other options that could have helped just as much when dealing with other magical girls.
The definition feature of Oriko as a magical girl, is how much her powers fuck with her. This is part of why Kirika manifested anti-magic, rather than any of the other options that could have helped just as much when dealing with other magical girls.
Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
You two are probably right, but it's a bit too slippery to get Oriko to grasp right now. We can bring it up, but it's probably not going to work particularly well.
That said, there isn't really any downside to suggesting the idea. Powers can be conceptual as much as literal, so Oriko will have to admit that it could hold water, even if she doesn't think it does.
That said, there isn't really any downside to suggesting the idea. Powers can be conceptual as much as literal, so Oriko will have to admit that it could hold water, even if she doesn't think it does.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Um, how does "toggleable aura" anti-magic differ from the anti-magic that Kirika has? Kirika has area effect anti-magic that can exclude allies from its effects and activates on command.
The anti-magic Kirika had was pretty useful for fighting us. It is quite literally the only reason that there was a fight. It vaped Mami's ribbons that were binding them and took away our grief control and forced us to fight hand-to-hand. Yeah, Homura still had her gun (although she probably couldn't have pulled any more guns out of her shield), but before she was anti-magicked she had her gun and timestop and could have just instantly blown them both away.
So you're saying that it doesn't matter if it's true, just if it gets her to doubt her assumptions? That's valid, I suppose. But my concern is that that she will discount it based on the issues I've raised, and it will make her start to doubt the validity of any other points we've raised.
Oh, right. I never did finish reading Suzune Magica.
Reading that wiki article, it seems like she can't actually turn someone into a mindslave, just fuck with their memories and perceptions. Perception alteration could screw with us pretty bad, but memory alteration wouldn't work on us because the player base would spot the discrepancies. Of course, there might be other meguca out there who can totally cast Dominate Person. But would that make for an interesting quest?
To help Oriko, so that Oriko would "never have to stop." Other meguca are the ones most likely to stop her.
Her anti-magic was helpful for reducing Oriko's pain when her powers were on the fritz, but that seems really thin to me.
- Location
- Austria
> looks at the thread
> looks at Oriko's self-destructiveness
No. Most likely to stop her are her visions being influenced by her death wish. Or generally herself being so...Oriko if you for some reason don't like this hypothesis.
Given that Oriko's worst enemy, bar none, is herself and her own inability to accept herself and look for futures where she is alive and happy? This is probably more important than combat applications.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I think the issue is that it didn't work from within timestop whereas the hypothetical "toggleable aura" version would have so long as it was on when timestop was activated.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Huh. I must have misread that. I thought she wished that Oriko would never have to stop. That's... got some interesting implications.
We've never seen Homura activate timestop while Kirika's anti-magic was in use (becaue it FUBARed Homura's shield), so we don't know what the result would be if, say, Homura activated her timestop while standing outside the radius of an active anti-magic and then walked into the radius. We've only seen Kirika use the anti-magic when she was brought into the timestop due to contact, and it terminated the timestop.
*shrug* Look, I just think that it's worth thinking about. If I found the logic of that idea shaky, then Oriko might as well, and that could cost us whatever progress we might have made.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Oriko wouldn't throw out everything we said based on one thing she found shaky, dude. That's not how her mind works.
- Location
- Austria
Yeah, for all her stubbornness, she is...pretty rational-ish in her thinking? She is unlikely to ignore everything we say if we touch her emotions wrong way once in the course of it.
- Location
- Austria
Yes, rational-ish. No beep-bops here.
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
I hammer people when I get a report assigned and such, but the mod team's gotten pretty big, so my workload's pretty light.
Reason it's not seen around here is that mods don't generally work in threads they take part in: Conflict of interest is a thing.
Hypervene
Feelin' Some Sort Of Way
- Location
- Liminal
Report? Mod team?
Hey this all sounds really cool!
Do you have a thread all to yourselves where you talk and get assignments or do you get a letter from 'the boss'?
This isn't a secret or anything is it?