- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
This is what I've been trying to say all aloooooooong...Eh, semantics. Daughter, familiar it's all the same right?
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Not seeing what's so hard to comprehend. While I think Hannz's vote could maybe be a little clearer regarding what Oriko was trying to accomplish (right now it kind of implies that she was just taking out anyone who got in her way, which might lead Sayaka to believe that burning down her apartment was an assassination attempt), it's worlds better than the previous "have an earth-shattering and infuriating revelation with no context" version, which was basically doing Kyubey's job for him.
Still really not sure if there's any reason for Hitomi to be there, honestly.
Still really not sure if there's any reason for Hitomi to be there, honestly.
- Location
- Illinois
This we agree on.
And an engineer's nightmare.
Um, do we know what Oriko was trying to accomplish? I think what she was trying to do was break the ice between Homura and Mami--at least, that was the primary result of her actions, so I have to think that was her aim--but I'm not sure that motive will go over with Sayaka any better than the implied one of rearranging pieces on the board.
And Hitomi's there I presume because all this compartmentalization of knowledge thing is annoying as hell. I'd bring Madoka in on this as well, if I could be sure Homura wouldn't murder us until we died from it. I certainly want to have both Homura and Madoka present for the Potential Bomb: not only is it more honest and likely to bring those two closer together, but letting Madoka know that her Wishing can (and probably will) destroy the planet she's currently on (even if it's likely to create a whole new one) ought to stop her from Wishing any time soon.
- Location
- Illinois
Sure, but jesus, Hitomi doesn't need the entire gory tale to learn about who broke her arm, Madoka should hear about this from Sayaka so that Sayaka has somebody to talk to about it, and pulling either of them in to hear about this while Sayaka is should be Sayaka's call if anyone's.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
In burning down Sayaka's apartment? She says that she foresaw that if something didn't happen to force Sayaka to move, she'd be dead in a few weeks. She wasn't really sure how or why, as I recall. (There were probably less harmful ways to make that happen, of course, but that's Oriko for you.)
Overall? Not sure besides a vague idea of opposing Feathers. It's possible that giving the local MGs a common enemy to unite them was part of it.
This is, I think, crucial to our success. Without this, we run the risk that Kyubey could force her into a contract by putting her loved ones in danger and making her think that its the only way to save them (as he tried to do by endangering Sayaka in Episodes 5 and 8 of the series).
For my part, I'd like to be able to focus entirely on Sayaka while dealing with the fallout from this, since she's the one whose emotional response could endanger the lives of herself or others...
On the other hand, having one of Sayaka's oldest friends around to absorb some of her emotions might be a stabilizing influence here. Sabrina and Mami aren't going to be much help there, and Homura might encourage her to get angrier, but Hitomi might stop her from freaking out as much. Madoka would be better, but, well, Homura and murder.
- Location
- ⇙
Don't really know about involving Hitomi right now. I mean sure Oriko is responsible for breaking her arm, but I don't know how she will react and if things will go better or worse with her involved.
She seems very reasonable so far, but who knows. They're both pretty new to the whole magical girl thing.
She seems very reasonable so far, but who knows. They're both pretty new to the whole magical girl thing.
Heh, it's too bad Hitomi probably doesn't have Yakuza connections, then she'd totally understand about breaking someone's arm or burning down their apartment as just being how business gets done.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Oh god, it'd even explain Feathers, and Sabrina's innate affinity for her grief wings.
Kriemhild Gretchen's familiars are angels.
- Location
- Illinois
Personally?
I feel very iffy about talking about the things we did that night with Hitomi. Sayaka has fought, Sayaka has had her house burnt down, Sayaka will listen and not be shellshocked by this.
Hitomi? The most exposure she has to meguca is us healing her. We did things that night that made Mami uncomfortable. How is Hitomi going to react if we start talking about Homura actively trying to kill somebody with a military-grade machine gun? About our leg getting blown to shreds by a mine?
How is Hitomi going to react to learning that the three of us went out that night armed to the teeth with the express purpose of subduing two people, lethally if that became necessary?
The sheltered Japanese rich girl?
- Location
- Austria
As an example of why we are so vehemently opposed to girls making contracts. If she had potential, it would be actually beneficial.
- Location
- Germany
Unless, of course, she really IS a Yakuza princess....
- Location
- Illinois
In which case she would suddenly be an asset, yes, yes.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I've already detailed my reasoning for involving Hitomi, but I might as well spell it out once more: Sayaka, regardless of the outcome of this, is going to need someone to lean on and discuss this with.
Mami, Sabrina, and Homura are too close to the thing she's going to want to unload with - it would be far better for Sayaka's state of mind if one of her oldest friends could commiserate. Since involving Madoka with Oriko would piss off Homura, and since Oriko's actions directly affected Hitomi, having Hitomi there becomes a natural choice.
Furthermore, Hitomi is remarkably level-headed. Not keeping up the masquerade around her is easily one of the best decisions we've made on the quest, directly leading to Madoka and Sayaka having a greatly expanded social support network. Keeping Hitomi out of the loop on this, when it directly involved her, smacks of the sort of magical girl isolationism that we want to prevent Sayaka from suffering from.
Mami, Sabrina, and Homura are too close to the thing she's going to want to unload with - it would be far better for Sayaka's state of mind if one of her oldest friends could commiserate. Since involving Madoka with Oriko would piss off Homura, and since Oriko's actions directly affected Hitomi, having Hitomi there becomes a natural choice.
Furthermore, Hitomi is remarkably level-headed. Not keeping up the masquerade around her is easily one of the best decisions we've made on the quest, directly leading to Madoka and Sayaka having a greatly expanded social support network. Keeping Hitomi out of the loop on this, when it directly involved her, smacks of the sort of magical girl isolationism that we want to prevent Sayaka from suffering from.
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Perhaps, but it may also not.
Well, in this case more that she would be inured to violence as part of the way things work. That would be kind of funny. But in this case, now that I'm thinking about it a bit more, it might be counterproductive to have Hitomi there. Sayaka is still nursing those feelings of inadequacy around her, so she might be inclined to bury her feelings and put on a brave front in front of the girl she thinks she owes.
I'm curious as to why you think "Making a Wish will destroy the planet" would make Madoka more likely to Wish.
Not so much "more likely to Wish" as no net change and/or her thinking she could rules lawyer a way so as to be helpful.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
That sense of obligation may also make her feel compelled to avenge Hitomi even if she might let an offense against herself slide.
That and something that only just occurred to me: if we tell Sayaka that Oriko broke Hitomi's arm, she's going to want to know why. And when it comes right down to it, the only reason that Hitomi's arm got broken is because she was Sayaka's friend. That's going to make Sayaka feel guilty and even more in Hitomi's debt.
Really starting to feel serious concerns about the idea of telling Sayaka that Oriko broke Hitomi's arm, whether Hitomi is there or not.
I suspect we can prevent that if we explain that in the hundreds of timelines in which she has made a wish, it has not previously worked.
Also, the possibility of Madoka trying to rules lawyer a helpful wish exists if she remains ignorant as well, and is if anything probably greater. It's just that, since she doesn't understand the system, odds are that her helpful wish won't be helpful at all.
(And now I find myself wondering if it's possible for Madoka to wish to never witch out. Not something I'd want to test if we can avoid it.)
- Location
- Central Europe
Hello Sufficient Velocity So I've caught up to the story now...
And there's a possible addition I'd like to see considered when we get to discussing Oriko with Sayaka: simultaneously mentioning the unknown threat that's apparently targeting Sayaka and that Oriko is trying to fight. This both because we might want to warn Sayaka, and to take some of the brunt of the combined revelation from Oriko - have the ThreatTM take some of the metaphorical blame. We know the Threat exists (the feathers) and probably sicced a witch on Sayaka... and unlike Homura, Sayaka should be able to confirm the existence of the Threat for herself by copying Oriko's power.
I wrote up one wording of how the "Oriko-bomb" could be framed for Sayaka if anyone thinks it would have merit:
-"Sayaka, there's a few things we haven't talked to you about yet. We didn't mention them before because we didn't want you to get dragged into the whole magical girl thing, but now you really need to know about some of the things that have been going on behind the scenes lately. First of all, about your house burning down? That was arson."
-"There's a magical girl here in Mitakihara who can see into the future. Her visions have warned her of a supernatural enemy that she says is worse than Walpugisnacht, and is going to be killing off magical girls and potentials in the area, among other things. Of course she tried using her knowledge of the future to thwart it, but she employed a rather convoluted and, shall I say thickheaded approach to dealing with issues. Having foreseen the threat strike at your building, for instance, she got everyone to evacuate it beforehand - by setting it on fire. I'm not sure how easily we could have gotten your family to move if she'd just told us what was going on, but from her perspective she had to burn down the building in order to save you. And it took more than a thorough trashing to even get the story out of her afterwards. That night Mami, Homura and me went after her and her girlfriend - who's also a magical girl and was helping her - and now we're keeping the both of them under house arrest. It's hard to trust someone after something like that, but she's been letting us know about relevant future events since. She's the one who tipped us off about you getting kidnapped by a witch."
- "About the threat she mentioned - we don't really have much of an idea of what we're even dealing with, although she seems sure that it's not a witch, and it appears to be associated with large black feathers."*show feather* "This one appeared around the time when you were kidnapped, and a witch abducting a single person from their home is absolutely not normal. We believe you were targeted. Not to try to scare you, but do let us know if you notice another feather like this one appear - it's probably a very ill omen, and is likely to start occurring more often in the time before Walpurgisnacht's arrival."
-Offer to take Sayaka on a visit to Oriko.
--Assuming she's still angry: "Just please don't kill her, it was hard enough to revive her after we'd hit her with that attack... Actually, you shouldn't even try to physically hurt her - her girlfriend's head got messed up somewhat by her wish, and she's now what you'd call a 'yandere'. She can go from likeable and goofy to murderous rage in a heartbeat if her 'ojo' is threatened. There'd be a scuffle and if someone's gem were to break... that's not something we could undo."
--Get Homura to tag along for this visit (convince her via telepathy), or at least to be on standby with timestop.
-Mention to Sayaka at some point that she may be able to be of real help here. Oriko's power is currently shorted out, but perhaps Sayaka can still copy and use it - she'd be acting as our main precog at least until Oriko sorted out her own power. And if she can't copy her power now, she could still do it once it's fixed. It would allow her to double-check Oriko's predictions so Homura wouldn't need to be so paranoid anymore.
So I've caught up to the story now...And there's a possible addition I'd like to see considered when we get to discussing Oriko with Sayaka: simultaneously mentioning the unknown threat that's apparently targeting Sayaka and that Oriko is trying to fight. This both because we might want to warn Sayaka, and to take some of the brunt of the combined revelation from Oriko - have the ThreatTM take some of the metaphorical blame. We know the Threat exists (the feathers) and probably sicced a witch on Sayaka... and unlike Homura, Sayaka should be able to confirm the existence of the Threat for herself by copying Oriko's power.
I wrote up one wording of how the "Oriko-bomb" could be framed for Sayaka if anyone thinks it would have merit:
-"Sayaka, there's a few things we haven't talked to you about yet. We didn't mention them before because we didn't want you to get dragged into the whole magical girl thing, but now you really need to know about some of the things that have been going on behind the scenes lately. First of all, about your house burning down? That was arson."
-"There's a magical girl here in Mitakihara who can see into the future. Her visions have warned her of a supernatural enemy that she says is worse than Walpugisnacht, and is going to be killing off magical girls and potentials in the area, among other things. Of course she tried using her knowledge of the future to thwart it, but she employed a rather convoluted and, shall I say thickheaded approach to dealing with issues. Having foreseen the threat strike at your building, for instance, she got everyone to evacuate it beforehand - by setting it on fire. I'm not sure how easily we could have gotten your family to move if she'd just told us what was going on, but from her perspective she had to burn down the building in order to save you. And it took more than a thorough trashing to even get the story out of her afterwards. That night Mami, Homura and me went after her and her girlfriend - who's also a magical girl and was helping her - and now we're keeping the both of them under house arrest. It's hard to trust someone after something like that, but she's been letting us know about relevant future events since. She's the one who tipped us off about you getting kidnapped by a witch."
- "About the threat she mentioned - we don't really have much of an idea of what we're even dealing with, although she seems sure that it's not a witch, and it appears to be associated with large black feathers."*show feather* "This one appeared around the time when you were kidnapped, and a witch abducting a single person from their home is absolutely not normal. We believe you were targeted. Not to try to scare you, but do let us know if you notice another feather like this one appear - it's probably a very ill omen, and is likely to start occurring more often in the time before Walpurgisnacht's arrival."
-Offer to take Sayaka on a visit to Oriko.
--Assuming she's still angry: "Just please don't kill her, it was hard enough to revive her after we'd hit her with that attack... Actually, you shouldn't even try to physically hurt her - her girlfriend's head got messed up somewhat by her wish, and she's now what you'd call a 'yandere'. She can go from likeable and goofy to murderous rage in a heartbeat if her 'ojo' is threatened. There'd be a scuffle and if someone's gem were to break... that's not something we could undo."
--Get Homura to tag along for this visit (convince her via telepathy), or at least to be on standby with timestop.
-Mention to Sayaka at some point that she may be able to be of real help here. Oriko's power is currently shorted out, but perhaps Sayaka can still copy and use it - she'd be acting as our main precog at least until Oriko sorted out her own power. And if she can't copy her power now, she could still do it once it's fixed. It would allow her to double-check Oriko's predictions so Homura wouldn't need to be so paranoid anymore.
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- Location
- Central Europe
Well we'd be framing Oriko as acting in good faith here, plus we have the mysterious feather, and there was the witch acting abnormally (according to Mami), and Oriko's warning saving Sayaka's life... so even if Sayaka were inclined to disbelieve the story, wouldn't she *have* to give Oriko the benefit of the doubt and verify it with her powers?
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The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Bringing up Feathers feels to me like something that probably can wait until later in the conversation. It's basically a "shocking revelation" in and of itself.
I do like your idea of having Sayaka copy Oriko's power quite a bit, if we can actually talk them into it. Having a precog on hand was really, really useful to us. All the fumbling around blind that we did while trying to find Kuroki shows how much we'd come to depend on it. It'd be nice to have that again.
I do like your idea of having Sayaka copy Oriko's power quite a bit, if we can actually talk them into it. Having a precog on hand was really, really useful to us. All the fumbling around blind that we did while trying to find Kuroki shows how much we'd come to depend on it. It'd be nice to have that again.