Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- spinning
That's a novel line of reasoning to me, AuraTwilight.
But I am not convinced. I don't know it would go worse, I have no real information to believe it could go worse than dying and on just the immediate level I certainly consider having some hope and part of you remain (gem, grief spiraling or perhaps even seed) better than none. Even predictable theoretical future threats don't get present endings; None of the voters here at the time voted for killing uncontracted Sasa Yuuki.
But I am not convinced. I don't know it would go worse, I have no real information to believe it could go worse than dying and on just the immediate level I certainly consider having some hope and part of you remain (gem, grief spiraling or perhaps even seed) better than none. Even predictable theoretical future threats don't get present endings; None of the voters here at the time voted for killing uncontracted Sasa Yuuki.
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Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Think of it like this, @Sereg. If you were writing a letter in response to someone's argument, would you spaghetti it? If you were discussing things with them in person, spaghetti responses would basically amount to interrupting them after every sentence, or there about. If you were refuting an academic paper, you would cover it by general points rather than a line by line refutation. I can't think of any venue for discussion where that sort of thing is done.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Because I'm Evil™.I'm pretty sure the only Spaghetti Sabrina can cook is the one that falls out of her pockets.
Mami stomps effortlessly. Why are you so mean towards the rest of the collective, Onmur?
And I imagine Sabrina and Mami trying their best to cook separately, but unable to resist the urge to help each other out a little bit... here and there... and a little more... and oh, why don't I grab that for you, don't you think you should use more- yes, exactly.
"I think, uh... dish one tastes better?"
"Naw, it's definitely this one that's better."
"It seems we've got a tie."
"Homura?"
"... The first one."
"..."
"..."
"Are you gonna tell us who made which now?"
"..."
*Stares at Mami*
*Stares at Sabrina*
"..."
"We don't..."
"... really know."
bird_poison
Knowing their wrath, unfettered and raw
- Location
- margarita
Unless the argument you wish to refute consist on several distinct points. My solution to spaghetti arguments is to limit myself to 2 or 3 quotes (in most cases), and refute the arguments not quoted anyways. I assume the person quoted will have an idea which parts I'm answering to. But I believe there are places where spaghetti is preferable, like discussing several different examples. I won't do it here, though.
NitroFumetsu
Blaze of Glory
My eyes usually start to glaze over a bit when I see Spaghetti arguments.
Usually from the steam rising from the plate.
But mostly because when spaghetti is put on paper, I get very sad. It tends to ruin them both.
Usually from the steam rising from the plate.
But mostly because when spaghetti is put on paper, I get very sad. It tends to ruin them both.
- Location
- South Africa
I find that massively insulting and I'd fume when I saw that done.
I'd absolutely do those things.
Exactly. And I don't assume that they know what I'm talking about, because I fail to understand what people are talking about all the time when it happens to me.
(I'm leaving the other stuff I was discussing alone. If you want me to respond, we can discuss it elsewhere)
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Then you're incredibly rude, and shouldn't be surprised when you get shut out of discussions.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I think there's a few intrinsic issues with trying to rebut other comments by dissecting them line by line.
For one thing, it lowers the mood of the thread by creating an atmosphere of extreme scrutiny. Some posters are old hands at having their arguments picked apart like that, but it still means that posters that are less willing to argue their points (perhaps they're new to the thread, or perhaps they just had a tiring day IRL and aren't feeling up to it) are discouraged from posting. This is the 'hostile environment' Firn is so concerned about, and it's not hypothetical, it's a matter of factual reality. Part time posters have come forward and said they don't feel comfortable posting once the thread gets in yet another myopic argument.
It inherently increases ones own antagonism to the post being dissected, as well. By addressing it line by line, you're forcing yourself to examine every single point being raised - and human biases being what they are, if you disagree with one point, you're likely to try and poke holes in the rest as well. After all, it's a statement from the 'enemy'!
And finally... well, it's just disjointed. Good writing, persuasive or otherwise, generally has a type of flow to it. Arguments build upon each other, and come out to be more then the sum of their parts. If you address an argument point by point, you might well be missing the forest for the trees, since the point the other person was trying to make is more likely then not being conveyed by their statement in aggregate.
For one thing, it lowers the mood of the thread by creating an atmosphere of extreme scrutiny. Some posters are old hands at having their arguments picked apart like that, but it still means that posters that are less willing to argue their points (perhaps they're new to the thread, or perhaps they just had a tiring day IRL and aren't feeling up to it) are discouraged from posting. This is the 'hostile environment' Firn is so concerned about, and it's not hypothetical, it's a matter of factual reality. Part time posters have come forward and said they don't feel comfortable posting once the thread gets in yet another myopic argument.
It inherently increases ones own antagonism to the post being dissected, as well. By addressing it line by line, you're forcing yourself to examine every single point being raised - and human biases being what they are, if you disagree with one point, you're likely to try and poke holes in the rest as well. After all, it's a statement from the 'enemy'!
And finally... well, it's just disjointed. Good writing, persuasive or otherwise, generally has a type of flow to it. Arguments build upon each other, and come out to be more then the sum of their parts. If you address an argument point by point, you might well be missing the forest for the trees, since the point the other person was trying to make is more likely then not being conveyed by their statement in aggregate.
bird_poison
Knowing their wrath, unfettered and raw
- Location
- margarita
That's why you quote the post instead of just @naming the poster.
Or to put in another way. Someone argues A, B and C. You want to analyze A, B and C separately. You can do that. But don't intermix the quotes with your answer, and thrust that the person you are answering to can (and often prefers) to read its own post quoted above, or go to the post and read it.
Good:
I think A is dumb and too dangerous. B tastes great with scotch and shouldn't be wasted.
Also, C could be called Amanda, if we need to name it before the silver sun arrives.
Bad:
I think A is dumb and too dangerous.
C could be called Amanda, if we need to name it before the silver sun arrives.
B tastes great with scotch and shouldn't be wasted.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
As Sabrina lies still on the floor, blind eyes open in an expression of horrid betrayal, a deep red pool of spaghetti sauce expands slowly in a circle around her body, followed by twin thick streams of overcooked spaghetti dripping from her pockets.
*Click*
"Hello. My name is Homura Akemi. You killed my daughter. Prepare to die."
- Location
- South Africa
I get lost with the "good" method all the time.The "bad" method is the only way I don't get lost. So, when someone else uses the "good" method, I feel like they are trying to make me lost and confused on purpose and I feel frustrated.
- Location
- Scotland
Then you're the problem, not the rest of the world, you could either learn to adapt like everyone else or stop debating.
bird_poison
Knowing their wrath, unfettered and raw
- Location
- margarita
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I am fascinated by the possible contexts of your made up conversation.
- Location
- spinning
Well, that sucks. I dunno, you could try to treat those posts as new ones on the topic?
Consolidating things down for me is often about how in simple algebra, you can change the order of operations to group things with same variables together.
Still might have to formulate the long disjointed chain, of course, but it no longer looks so disjointed after putting all multipliers of a given variable behind brackets.
And in algebra, I rarely ever brother addressing the meaning of it before sorting. Does that make sense?
That is one of the reasons half my posts have "edited in last x minutes" (others being typoes and rethinking), which might seem rather odd given my tendency for stubborness.
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- Location
- South Africa
I've adapted. I respond to posts that come across as incredibly rude to me and I try to be polite despite that. The bigger issue is trying to deliberately do something that feels rude to me. And the fact that my own attempts at politeness come off as hostile (I think?).
I know that I think very differently from ordinary people. As such, people who know me well can follow my arguments, but I have to put in a lot of effort to get others to. "Spaghetti posting" helps with that and it's how I want to be addressed (do unto others and all that).
Treating those posts as new ones on the topic doesn't help me as the statements are without context. That's what I like about spaghetti posting. the context is clear. Not doing it comes across like deliberately deleting all the citations.
EDIT: That said, lack of conformity isn't a problem.
I know that I think very differently from ordinary people. As such, people who know me well can follow my arguments, but I have to put in a lot of effort to get others to. "Spaghetti posting" helps with that and it's how I want to be addressed (do unto others and all that).
Treating those posts as new ones on the topic doesn't help me as the statements are without context. That's what I like about spaghetti posting. the context is clear. Not doing it comes across like deliberately deleting all the citations.
EDIT: That said, lack of conformity isn't a problem.
Madou Sutegobana
Autocorrupt has been disabled.
- Location
- Twin Realms Mandala
Why is Sereg being singled out? He wasn't the only one arguing. Heck one poster continued the argument when Sereg was busy conversing about something else.
bird_poison
Knowing their wrath, unfettered and raw
- Location
- margarita
Your comment is exactly that, but one can argue than arguing requires 2 persons. Therefore, by answering you we are already arguing about arguing about how we argue.
How about we don't. It's a derail that has nothing to do with the quest.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I think the argument of your argument's got merit, but I don't like how you argue for that argument's argument.