Conspiracy is learning towards asking for a clarification as a lead-in to the vote, because otherwise we're sorta stuck trying to craft a vote that works for either circumstance. Suggestions for how to word such a thing would be kewl.

[] Mami, I'm not sure exactly what you're asking me, and you matter to me and I don't want to start rushing out an answer that you weren't asking for. I'm trying not to panic, here. Give me something to work with?
 
As in, most probable to be closer to the "correct" meaning. The option I would choose, if I had to choose an option. Safe as in "Is safe to assume the smoking, rumbling mountain is a volcano".

Anything we said must explain our motives. Since our motives are not to manipulate her for our gain, we must leave that crystal clear.

Everything else is just strategies to avoid being interrupted/misinterpreted.
 
Current vote feat narrator and then surgery'd by Julian / Redshirt / Ugo / Kai

[X] If at any time Mami's soul gem gets >50% full, ask to cleanse it.
- [X] If she says no, express your worry for her and ask her to get a grief seed. If she says no and refuses to get a grief seed, ask again with additional emphasis. Break to voting if she refuses again.
[X] If at any time our own gem is >25% full, clean it discreetly.
[X] If she makes any motion to get closer to us or to loosen our bonds, try to return the hug, as much as possible. Try to get across that we're there, to comfort her. If for any reason we feel she doesn't want us to move, don't.
[X] If at any point she interjects, break to voting.

[X] I didn't tell you because I was scared, and wasn't sure what to do and I... I just couldn't find a way to say it. At first, I was just trying to keep this away from Kyuubey, but after it was gone... you were so hurt that I couldn't bear to put you through that again. Even by then, you already meant so much to me, Mami.
[X] But it's so much worse not telling you. I can't keep something this important from you any longer, because I care about you and want to stay at your side. And that means being honest with you, because you deserve that.
 
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Think that's about as good as we're gonna get. Not sure what else can really be done with it.

[X] Kaizuki

Alea iacta est
 
The only problem is that assuring her potentially undermines the explanation. If we assure her that everything we felt for her was genuine, it brings into question why we feel that it's necessary to make that assurance.

This wouldn't be an issue if we'd just fucking frontloaded... T_T

Edit: you know something? I'm tired as fuck. The vote only has to be good enough. And we have a vote that is good enough. At this point, it's more important that we unite behind a vote that will salvage this situation, because no matter how perfect the vote gets, Sabrina's emotional influence has a chance to ruin the situation. If we all settle on one thing, that will help in the conversation itself. If we all do so in a calm and rational manner, that will act as a steeling influence, which we really need because we could ruin everything if we distort what we want to say too much on accident, no matter how good the vote is.

@The Narrator
[X] The Narrator
We feel that it's necessary because that's exactly what she's currently afraid of, and it's painfully obvious.

EDIT: You're also putting the most important part of the vote last, which is...not going to work out well. Like, it starts with you asking Mami if she'd prefer a Grief Seed, rather than addressing her fears before she becomes more and more convinced that it's the worst case scenario--ie, that Sabrina is pulling a Kyubey.

Don't ask her if she wants a grief seed. That's basically admitting defeat right off the bat. Don't ask to cleanse her--if she's in a state where she needs it that badly, she's not entirely in her right mind anyway (we just cleansed her; if she's spiralling that badly, you don't wait to ask for permission).
 
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We feel that it's necessary because that's exactly what she's currently afraid of, and it's painfully obvious.

Because when I went

[] Because I've come to genuinely care deeply for you, to the point that I don't know what I'd do without you.

I got shot down.

--------------------------------------

Agreed.

Also,
[X]Kaizuki

Just one more thing. Is the Gem-cleaning intentionally before the answer, or just as a contingency? I think it's important to answer first, before offering cleanings. Nipticking, I know, but just in case.

Modification made to working vote pending approval --
[] If at any time Mami's soul gem gets >50% full, ask to cleanse it.
- [] If she says no, express your worry for her and ask her to get a grief seed. If she says no and refuses to get a grief seed, ask again with additional emphasis. Break to voting if she refuses again.

Edit: paging @Redshirt Army, please report to conspiracy HQ or the PMAS thread. Paging @Redshirt Army on the request of @Julian Bradshaw.
[] If at any time our own gem is >25% full, clean it discreetly.
 
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I'm used to having my input being ignored or dismissed here, but this is a bit much. Or maybe it's just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I just...wonder why I even bother, sometimes. The thread regularly mocks itself for not being able to social (or understand psychology, or intuitively empathize with characters in new situations), but when someone comes along to help with that, his input is largely ignored? I don't understand it.

EDIT: I respect that you're at least trying to make something work, Kaizuki, even if you're still largely dismissing my input.
 
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You're also putting the most important part of the vote last, which is...not going to work out well. Like, it starts with you asking Mami if she'd prefer a Grief Seed, rather than addressing her fears before she becomes more and more convinced that it's the worst case scenario--ie, that Sabrina is pulling a Kyubey.

Don't ask her if she wants a grief seed. That's basically admitting defeat right off the bat. Don't ask to cleanse her--if she's in a state where she needs it that badly, she's not entirely in her right mind anyway (we just cleansed her; if she's spiralling that badly, you don't wait to ask for permission).

All the initial stuff is supposed to be general instructions for throughout, rather than immediate actions to take. The vote effectively starts with the second block, "I didn't tell you because I was scared (etc.)".
 
We feel that it's necessary because that's exactly what she's currently afraid of, and it's painfully obvious.

EDIT: You're also putting the most important part of the vote last, which is...not going to work out well. Like, it starts with you asking Mami if she'd prefer a Grief Seed, rather than addressing her fears before she becomes more and more convinced that it's the worst case scenario--ie, that Sabrina is pulling a Kyubey.

Don't ask her if she wants a grief seed. That's basically admitting defeat right off the bat. Don't ask to cleanse her--if she's in a state where she needs it that badly, she's not entirely in her right mind anyway (we just cleansed her; if she's spiralling that badly, you don't wait to ask for permission).
It's last because the other stuff needs to be said first. Mami asked a question, so we have to answer it first. Doing otherwise is ignoring her wishes and confirming that we don't treat her wishes with respect.

We're asking because we're being gentle, not hostile, just like what was successful last time Mami broke down.
 
I'm used to having my input being ignored or dismissed here, but this is a bit much. Or maybe it's just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I just...wonder why I even bother, sometimes. The thread regularly mocks itself for not being able to social (or understand psychology, or intuitively empathize with characters in new situations), but when someone comes along to help with that, his input is largely ignored? I don't understand it.

EDIT: I respect that you're at least trying to make something work, Kaizuki, even if you're still largely dismissing my input.

Salty, I yelled and screamed for what you're saying for an entire day. At the end of that day, I had the leading vote. Then it got overturned. At this point, E Pluribus Unum takes absolute priority. I just... we just can't afford another off-road adventure.

This happened two days ago:

I've come to a conclusion.

Neither do you look at her. Instead, you forge on. "When I woke up in that alley, I knew things." You lick your lips. "About a small number of people. Homura, Madoka, Sayaka. And other things. Other people." Mami's fingers tighten, digging into your arm. "All of whom, all of which matter and are. Worth talking about."

Why is it so hard to spit it out?

You steel yourself. "I knew about you," you whisper.

Mami makes a tiny, choked noise. Her white knuckled grip on your arm doesn't slacken.

"I, I-" you stutter. "I knew about you, I- I didn't know you. And not everything, I, I-"

"Y-you-" Mami shakes her head, tears squeezing from the corner of her eyes. "N-no, no, n-not you too-"

"No," you whisper. "No, I-" You reach up, closing your hand around hers.

She's shivering. Her hand is icy cold, fingers biting into your forearm.

"I'm not," you whisper. "I'm not. I- I didn't know you. I didn't- I'm not like it. I had no idea about you, I had no idea you could cook everything under the sun I didn't know you were in the archery club I didn't know you liked to play video games." You're babbling at this point. You force yourself to take a shaky breath. "I didn't know we'd get along so well. I- I didn't know we could be friends."

"F-friends," Mami whispers. Tears streak down her face, her breath stuttering gasps in her throat. "I-I- S-sabrina- you- K-kyub- I-"

Her Soul Gem. You can feel it, throbbing as it fills. Grief surges, closing on the halfway mark.

Way too close for comfort.

You raise your hand, cupping it gently over Mami's. She flinches, hand shaking.

You pull your hand free, dragging a river of Grief free.

Mami makes another choked, terrified noise.

Golden light blossoms. You flinch, and something slams into your side and then you're falling-

By the time you hit the floor, you're bound securely in a cocoon of golden ribbons. Your arms are clamped to your side, and Mami-

Mami stumbles to her feet. She's transformed and swaying, eyes wide enough to show the whites all around. Manic and staring and terrifed.

Her hands are empty.

She manages a step away. Toward the window. Her eyes don't leave yours.

And she stops, rocking in place. She falls.

A wailing sob. On her hands and knees, she scrabbles back to you, grabbing you roughly with shivering hands. She pulls you close, hugging you like a giant bolster.

"W-why," she whispers, shaking you roughly. "Why? W-why- y-you- why?"

This isn't rational. Not from our perspective, or from Mami's. Everything we just told her is about the past.

This is Mami Tomoe. Great Justice.

Why would she judge somebody on the basis of their past actions if they've changed since then??.

She's subject to irrational fears of betrayal and abandonment. She's liable to jump to conclusions in situations that trigger those fears. But we're not betraying or abandoning her in the present, we're admitting to past commissions of such behavior.

...

Without significant reassurance of current status.

That's my conclusion. She thinks we mean to break things off with her, or some similar behavior. Things just don't make sense otherwise. Go back and read what I quoted. Given the omnipresent risk of her expecting us to leave her, there are too many places where she could have taken things horribly wrong.

You steel yourself. "I knew about you," you whisper.

Mami makes a tiny, choked noise. Her white knuckled grip on your arm doesn't slacken.

"I, I-" you stutter. "I knew about you, I- I didn't know you. And not everything, I, I-"

Mami: Sabrina knew something about me that made her dislike me.

"I didn't know we'd get along so well. I- I didn't know we could be friends."

"F-friends," Mami whispers. Tears streak down her face, her breath stuttering gasps in her throat. "I-I- S-sabrina- you- K-kyub- I-"

Mami: Sabrina didn't mean to be and/or didn't want to be my friend.

...

Mami: This entire time Sabrina has never liked me, even when she said she would stay.

...

At no point in this update did we reassure her. Not. Once. We reassured her last night that this talk wasn't about us wanting to leave her. But this is Mami Tomoe, Great Justice... and Queen Of Abandonment Issues.

This is my vote, then. One line. Broad, unincriminating, gives her plenty of choice and doesn't engender any avoidable flight risk... And it doesn't reach any further than necessary.

[X] Because I've come to genuinely care deeply for you, to the point that I don't know what I'd do without you.

She'll respond. Some way, some how. Either I'm right or the response A) reassures her and B) should provoke a further response in which she'll at least clear up the ambiguity of her question.

That was me. I fought for that and I gave it up. What you're pushing for, it got its spotlight. It did. And that is why I'm not holding it in serious regard at the moment. Because... Because I feel that that avenue has already been taken as far as I could take it.
 
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I'm used to having my input being ignored or dismissed here, but this is a bit much. Or maybe it's just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I just...wonder why I even bother, sometimes. The thread regularly mocks itself for not being able to social (or understand psychology, or intuitively empathize with characters in new situations), but when someone comes along to help with that, his input is largely ignored? I don't understand it.

EDIT: I respect that you're at least trying to make something work, Kaizuki, even if you're still largely dismissing my input.
Do not think because we don't do we don't listen. Most votes here are the aggregate of the ideas throw and flinched here, explicitly and implicitly. And an apreciated idea can be a discarded idea all the same.
 
[x] Kaizuki

This is stressful and this is as good as it's gonna get, I think. I just want this voting phase to be over.
 
You're doing pretty good for someone who just hopped into this. I'm sorry you had to be put on the spot for something people were dreading for basically a year.

Bah. I put myself on the spot. I looked at this quest, and I said to myself, "by jove, I have ideas that should help with the metabomb. I will see this go well."

Do I regret that? No. I do regret not sticking with what I said in my essay -- if we had frontloaded like the formula said, we wouldn't be here, we'd be having a stable talk with Mumi.
 
Point. We're starting to go in circles. Improving any more requires information that is currently open to interpretation and not agreed upon. It might just be time to see what happens next.
 
Yeah. I have seriously lost sleep over this stuff lol.
Well, if this goes well you should serve yourself something liquid and sleep.

Point. We're starting to go in circles. Improving any more requires information that is currently open to interpretation and not agreed upon. It might just be time to see what happens next.
I disagree. The votes have slowly evolved from long, aimless sorry rants to short, to the point explanations with grief contingencies and reasurance throw in the mix.
 
Point. We're starting to go in circles. Improving any more requires information that is currently open to interpretation and not agreed upon. It might just be time to see what happens next.

Yeah.

I disagree. The votes have slowly evolved from long, aimless sorry rants to short, to the point explanations with grief contingencies and reasurance throw in the mix.

Eh. Before today, we were circling. Salty is in a circle. I've been in circles the whole time, just kinda getting more ovular as time went on ig?

BTW, gonna post the entire conspiracy chat in-thread at some point -- probably need to get a couple more permissions for it, but Onmur Julian and I all feel that it needs to happen.

Kind of a funny thing, it's not premium. We wanted to drag more people in at one point and then we realized that nobody had a premium account. The infamous PMAS conspiracy, and it's not even premium.
 
When this is over i'm voting to hug Mami untill Homura shows up to see why we are not awnsering the phone.
 
Vote is temporarily finalized. Nobody is suggesting any more changes in conspiracy atm and all major feathers are fluffed properly. Would the thread please give its thoughts?

[X] Conditional actions:
- [X] If at any time Mami's soul gem gets >50% full, ask to cleanse it.
-- [X] If she says no, express your worry for her and ask her to get a grief seed. If she says no and refuses to get a grief seed, ask again with additional emphasis. Break to voting if she refuses again.
- [X] If at any time our own gem is >25% full, clean it discreetly.
- [X] If she makes any motion to get closer to us or to loosen our bonds, try to return the hug, as much as possible. Try to get across that we're there, to comfort her. If for any reason we feel she doesn't want us to move, don't.
- [X] If at any point she interjects, break to voting.

[X] I didn't tell you because I was scared, and wasn't sure what to do and I... I just couldn't find a way to say it. At first, I was just trying to keep this away from Kyuubey, but after it was gone... you were so hurt that I couldn't bear to put you through that again. Even by then, you already meant so much to me, Mami.
[X] But it's so much worse not telling you. I can't keep something this important from you any longer, because I care about you and want to stay at your side. And that means being honest with you, because you deserve that.
[X] Apologize. Don't bother with dignity, just bow your head, let down your walls and tell her how sorry you are for everything.
 
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